New Owner Still Within 7 day rescind window

Hi there,

Great forum which I have been reading voraciously since returning from Maui 2 days ago.. we stayed in Bldg 8 at WKORV North.

The Good - we loved the resort.. we live in Vancouver, so flights are close and (relatively) inexpensive. We rented a studio (privately from an owner), as it was just my wife and I. We paid $1900 for a week. We have young twins (2.5yrs old), who stayed back in Vancouver with the grandparents so we could catch a break. We think that coming to this same resort frequently would be ideal for us and for our kids.

So, we took the presentation, and did the math as follows on a 2 bedroom lockout garden view. The math didn't work for me on it's own.. I figured it might pay for itself by the time my kids were in their 30's (i.e. 30 yrs from now) but the SPG points and the ability to stay in nice hotels (I work for myself but travel for business) seemed liked some nice bonuses.

1. Price was quite high, so we could only consider an every other year starting in 2011. Cost was $36.9 K USD. I was told MF's could be expected to increase 3-5% per year.

2. The plan isn't for investment purposes, we're happy to use a resort like WKORV North every 2nd year (not concerned about trading or specific weeks etc) and eventually pass it on to kids down the road, but the concern comes in if the MF's become exorbitant.. Right now, my MF would be $2,800 on the year I use the resort.. I'd love to be able to take our family and stay in the 1 bedroom and rent out the studio for $2 K, then be left with $800 towards MF. Alternately bring family (babysitters) and have them use the studio. If I was totally stuck and couldn't get to Hawaii, I projected renting the studio for 2K and the 1 bdrm for 2.5 K, getting me 4.5K (or $1,700 after MF is paid)

3. So I figured that as long as rental rate increase kept pace (or outstripped) the MF's, I'd likely be able to "make" maybe $1,500 every 2 years. But interest aside, I'd have to do this 25 times (50 years) to get my $35 K recouped.. so we agreed to BUY ! Developer told us it was risky to buy on the resale market, as you lose a lot of the perks etc.

Very happy initially, as it didn't seem like a bad plan, but now I see MF's have been escalating at much more than 4-5%, so I'm likely better off searching online every 2 yrs and renting a 1 bd or 2 bd from an owner and have no equity or risk.

4. I liked the StarPoints plan, and figured I could run lots of business expenses (and also pay the initial $37K )through a SPG credit card) to accumulate more points and future hotel stays. But now I see the SPG card for Canadians is not going to be available until possibly March or April.

Two questions for all my rambling.

1. Since there's seemingly no control over MF escalation, am I better to rescind my purchase and wait until I can see a flattening of this increase

and/or possibly

2. Consider a purchase on the resale market so the initial capital outlay is not so much and

3. Wait until I can get an SPG credit card to take better advantage of the StarPoints program.

Thanks all.. appreciate any input as decision day will have to be tomorrow.

Rescind now. The "deal" will always be there later, ability to rescind won't

jcanuck said:

1. Since there's seemingly no control over MF escalation, am I better to rescind my purchase and wait until I can see a flattening of this increase

and/or possibly

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Rescind. You can do much better

jcanuck said:

2. Consider a purchase on the resale market so the initial capital outlay is not so much and

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Yes. You will save far more than you'd ever recover in value from StarPoints and not pay the massive upfront cost for possible recovery later through StarPoints.

jcanuck said:

3. Wait until I can get an SPG credit card to take better advantage of the StarPoints program.

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Won't matter if you buy at the much more sensible resale level. And do read AGAIN about what has been going on with annual fees to be sure that you even want to buy into the Starwood system. If you do there are plenty of sellers now wanting out due to the seemingly uncontrolled and massive increases they have seen over the past few years with no end in sight.

Rescind before it is too late.

Rescind ASAP. Starwood is among the worst developers at keeping maintenance fees reasonable. You can expect your fees to increase around 10% per year. For 2010, several Starwood resorts have had increases over 20%.
And I wont even get into how Starwood management has become the worst developer in regards to the treatment of owners. Just read some of the threads and check out the Starwood poll.

The westin in Maui is one of the nicest TS in the world. BUT since you cn get all the benefit of buying direct if you buy resale ( since it would be crazy to trade that TS for hotel pts) RESCIND ASAP and if you still want to buy there, buy resale and save more than $20,000 - $30,000!!

Rescind and do your homework before buying any timeshare.

If you buy from Starwood you are paying tens of thousands more than you would if you purchase resale. The only thing you lose by not buying direct from Starwood is the ability to trade you week for SPG points. However, when you trade for points you still have to pay the maintenance fees and give up the use of your week. Not a good deal when you own such an expensive resort.

The other bad thing about purchasing from the developer is that you will lose tens of thousands if you need to sell for some reason (job loss, illness, divorce).

Timeshares are easy to buy and difficult to sell. Take your time before making a decision.

Rescind, rescind, rescind.

There will be plenty of time to learn about timeshares here and go about this the right way, which will save you an enormous amount of $$$ in the long run.

Do not hesitate. Rescind!

Buy mine instead! - just kidding DeniseM

no brainer - rescind

how can you tell a TS salesperson is lying? Their lips are moving...

3-5% increases in MFs!!!??? that just pisses me off...

rescind - and tell them about the Owner Revolt that is growing exponentially as they continue to perpetuate their lies and misinfomation - and screw us...

check out the eBay sales thread - you can get a 2Bd LO EY for around $15000 and dropping. No way you could ever justify the ability to convert SOs to SPs by spending $20K more AND only getting an EOY

Rescind! - FAQ - Rescinding a Starwood TS

Do your homework before you buy - I have been an owner here since preconstruction, and at this point I would not accept a free week if someone offered it to me... MF have far outstripped rental rates.

My MF is $2,300 and I could rent a 2 bdm. for $1,450 today. You estimate of renting for $4,500 is way high.

...and when you rescind, please divulge that one of the biggest deterrents to buying is the exorbitant maintenance fees!

Renting is your best option, IMO, because you can rent for the cost of MFs with no long-term commitment. It IS a beautiful resort, but the downside to owning in Maui outweight the positives.

Glad you enjoyed your time in Maui. And welcome to TUG.

I agree with the others. Rescind while you can.

With that said however, I believe some of the comments are overstated.

I own two units there. It is a wonderful resort and we enjoy it greatly.

That said, I agree with the previous posts - RESCIND.

Annual fees have been increasing 10-20% per year for the past three years, not 3-5%. Starwood's governance is absolutely opaque. It sounds like you twisted yourself and compromised to buy (you bought the least expensive contract they sell).

After you do your research and learn what the unit is really worth (i.e. after the vacation glow wears off), if you really want to purchase, look on eBay, Redweek.com, MyResortNetwork.com, and TUG's Marketplace and pay only one-fourth the price you paid and choose between dozens of desperate resale sellers. It's a buyers' market.

thanks for all the input

Thanks to all for the quick and informative replies. It seems overwhelmingly to point to only one decision - rescind - certainly we knew in advance that the resale market was available, but the developer was intent on convincing us that buying on the resale market was filled with danger and risk, and that in many cases, Starwood had the right of first refusal to repurchase any of these units coming onto the market.

It seems like the rescind process is straightforward, but I'll put another post up if anyone's interested to let you know how it all went.

Thanks again to all, and if we don't decide to buy off the resale market, will look here to rent for next year at WKORV since we truly loved the place and want to take our kids there in future years.

Starwood rarely exercised ROFR when the economy was good, and they sure aren't going to start now!

Wise choice jcanuck.

I also suggest you read Timesharing 101 here on Tug to determine if timesharing is even right for you.

DeniseM said:

Starwood rarely exercised ROFR when the economy was good, and they sure aren't going to start now!

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And it makes very little sense for Starwood to stat exercising ROFR now since they would forego the MFs on the unit until it is resold, which is a long while in this economy.

Resale market is great if you are going to enter the Starwood system. I purchased all 3 of my weeks and it was not difficult.

I echo the advice of others to rescind. Please, if you can, also tell the Starwood rep. that you heard complaints about the company's dramatic increases in MFs and it strongly contributed to your decision to rescind.

You could get the same unit for easily less than $10k or get an EY for ~$10k less than you paid. That would go a LONG way toward paying for all those flights to Maui.

Right now I would NOT buy though. Not with the MF doing what they are. I am sorry to say you paid above the current market rate for your rental and your estimated rental rates are TOTALLY HYPERINFLATED. (Many here rent their units out and could give you ACTUAL rates they are getting) Then you have all the issues of getting renters and securing payment....all it takes is to not get renters a couple of times and you are WAY past your 30 mark for recovery. If MF keep going the way they are you may NEVER break even and if that is so WHY would you risk that $$$ now. Put it in a money market or other secure account and add your $2800 MF annually (increase at 5% annually at least) and vacation off it for YEARS if not the rest of your life!!!


Edit: BTW the resale risk is also TOTALLY overstated - for a couple hundred dollars you can get escrow and title insurance with a reputable closing company and have essentially NO risk.

jcanuck, ... Please save yourself some money by rescinding and buying a resale unit at WKORV.

Or, buy a resale 1-br premium (large 1-br) or 2-br lockoff at a "mandatory" Starwood resort (in Platinum season) which carries with it 81K (1-br) or 148.1K (2-br lockoff) StarOptions and use the StarOptions to do internal Starwood trades into a premium 1-br or 2-br lockoff at WKORV.

For the foreseeable future there will be opportunities to trade with StarOptions into Maui because of the high WKORV assessments, bad economy and Maui's tax policies. As long as you can be flexible as to the week and remember to call for a reservation at 8 months before arrival, you will get in.

Starwood has never used it's ROFR at any resort. Moreover, there is little risk that unsold developer units at WKORV will see a price increase any time soon. So, you have very little to lose by buying resale especially if it would be your first Starwood unit. Throttle back, go slow and rescind this one. ... eom

I also thought the same thing. You paid too much for your studio rental. 2BR are rented around $3,500, so you could pay $1,200 -$1,500 for studio unit.

When I rescinded an SPG purchase

Don't know how yours is going, but my wife and I rescinded our purchase @ SPG on our last trip to Maui. No pestering phone calls at all. They did send a letter asking for return of the packet of sales materials/contracts and that was it. I did see one SPG # on our caller ID once, but no message was left and they never called back.

After doing more research here I am more content than ever to hold off on even a resale purchase now. Even if SPG gets their act together management and MF wise and the economy recovers I wouldn't think prices would do anything but a slow rebound at best.

Other than the obvious (rescind!) I just can't help but think that if I knew I would be going to Hawaii three times this year at Westin timeshares via II trades when I bought my mandatory resale unit I'm not sure I would have bought... Given the economic special circumstances we're experiencing these days, it's true that we've been in an exceptional travel period where rentals are cheap and ownership is questionable.

If I was buying now and my travel wasn't restricted to only school holidays, I would buy a cheap (ie $1, or at most $500) trader at a resort with relatively low MFs and plan on using it with II (even though II/SVN have their problems right now, as well). I think this option is better than ever before, though we have no idea how long such great trades will last. And even if they end next year or the year after, the total cost of buying and MFs is still significantly less than the alternatives (at which point the decision to keep, sell, or give away the ownership can be decided). Basically, I think trading is much more of an acceptable alternative in this economy than ever before, though this isn't for everyone due to schedule constraints.

Great points Ken555!

Based on my experience, owning only one 2BED lockout trader is all I would buy if i could do-over. There are so many incredible Getaway deals for a fraction of my MFs. I would use the trader for Hawaii or something similar. Everything else would be a getaway.

Tread slowly, buying is so much easier than selling.

Troopers said:

With that said however, I believe some of the comments are overstated.

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overstated which one - that they continue perpetuate lies and misinfo - or they continue to screw us???

l2trade said:

Based on my experience, owning only one 2BED lockout trader is all I would buy if i could do-over. There are so many incredible Getaway deals for a fraction of my MFs. I would use the trader for Hawaii or something similar. Everything else would be a getaway.

Tread slowly, buying is so much easier than selling.

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About a year ago I made the decision to limit myself to one EOY 2br lockout for the reasons you stated, although I did pay more than the $500 Ken suggested. If I need additional weeks I can either rent someone else's timeshare or find a private rental. Timesharing has been wonderful for my family, but I feel a lot more secure as an owner now that I know my annual fees are (relatively) small and I won't lose a ton of $$ if I ever have to dump my ts.