Call to Starwood about new system

I recently hung up after 45 minutes on the phone with Starwood's Director of Customer relations. I explained I was going to report back to other owners via the internet. I was asked to please try out the new system before making a judgement. I explained that I had serious doubts that this will benefit owners and in my experience any "enhancement" is just the opposite but agreed to listen to the details with an open mind.

I really went into the phone call with a very negative feeling of the new system. However,the new system appears to have some positive attributes. The only negative to me is that we dont have control over the week that has been deposited. But if trading power remains high the other positives of the system may make up for this lack of control over the week deposited.

I explained to the Director that I have concerns over trading power. I was assured that trading power will remain high for all Starwood weeks. I was also told Starwood/II is also taking into account fixed high season weeks that should have more trading power. According to the person I spoke to this was addressed and trading power assigned accordingly. II and Starwood have agreed to deposit/accept a certain percentage high/low season weeks and assign the same trade power to all floating weeks within an ownership season.

I have to admit trading power for both the lock offs and the full two bedroom units of my SBP and SDO Gold Plus units remain very high.

I was told the following about the system which is much like was described in the other thread.

When you want to make an exchange you call Starwood and request an "assignment" for the purpose of an II exchange. This unit is good until June 30 of the second year after your usage year. For example, any assignment in 2009 expires June 30 2011. If you change your mind,this assignment (deposit) can be canceled any time during your year of usage and you can then retain your home resort usage.

I was concerned about "Request First " exchanges and was told it would work like this. You would make your reservation at your home resort then institute an ongoing search. If/when the search is confirmed you would have to notify Starwood that you wish to cancel the reservation so as to confirm an II exchange. Or II will get notified by Starwood that your week is not available for confirmation in which case you will get notified by II and then have the opportunity to call Starwood while your exchange is still on hold with II. If you do not get a confirmed exchange and/or cancel the request you still retain your home resort reservation.

If you are not using your home resort you do not have to make a reservation for a specific high season week to gain trading power or decide whether to split the lock off or not. You can make an exchange and the appropriate size unit will be deducted from your Starwood account based on the unit size you made the exchange with.

In some ways this reminds me of the way Worldmark works minus the points of course.

I hate to admit it but all in all it doesnt sound bad if it works as described and if trading power remains as it should. However, I'm going to have to test it out in order to have a more informed opinion.

Thoughts ?

You have described exactly how I have analyzed this new system. It sounds okay on the surface. I just don't want to be the one to do a test run!! I own E/ODD/Y at SDI so for me the issue won't be a problem until next year when I decide whether to use or exchange. A big question still remains as to getting the 2 bedroom exchanges for my 1 bedroom L/O as I have done in the past. I will only exchange if I can get 2 great exchanges from my SDI. The MF are high so that way I can justify even owning there. It certainly is not my favorite resort to stricly use for myself. The units are way to small and the resort, although certainly nice, is too crowded for my taste.

Hi George, thanks for making this call.

Can we get assignments two both sides of the lockoff, for searching purposes?

So what happens if you confirm a 2 bed exchange, do you lose a 2 bedroom deposit (both sides of the lockoff)?

Those of us in the know used the systems rules to our advantage by booking prime weeks to deposit and saw awesome exchanges as a result. We are a small minority doing this (note someone got a Easter SDO week this week so only a few can be doing this) .

We were told at purchase (pre Starwood for my Vistana Cascades and SBP weeks) that we can BOOK a week and deposit that week. That is how the CC&Rs are written. They cannot unilaterally change the rules on the fly. That is why documents like that exist and are on record with the county.

I cannot see how they say a SDO 1-52 wil remain strong. There are a small number of power weeks and a larger number of duds. There is a LARGE number of medium power weeks. They cannot make them all strong! I did not buy for a medium power trader. The trading power MAY be strong relative to non-hotel system weeks but NOT as strong as the power March weeks or Easter at SDO or summer at SBP. I was using the system to my advantage but was FULLY within the rules.

I believe they will have problems with some resorts depending on the exact statements in the CC&Rs. All it will take is someone to challenge them. It appears from comments here they will have that challenge from individuals or groups. I am afraid that unless the wording is exactly the same this may have to be done on a resort by resort basis.

I am in for a fight! Count me in!

rickandcindy23 said:

Hi George, thanks for making this call.

Can we get assignments two both sides of the lockoff, for searching purposes?

So what happens if you confirm a 2 bed exchange, do you lose a 2 bedroom deposit (both sides of the lockoff)?

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Hey Cindy,

You can ask for just a one bedroom assignment if you plan on using the other side or ask for a two bedroom lock off assignment. With the two bedroom lock off assignment you only lose the portion that you exchange with. You dont have to decide ahead of time whether you want to lock off or not.
You only lose the two bedroom portion if you use the two bedroom portion to exchange with. You can still confirm a two bedroom using a one bedroom assuming sufficient trade power.

I also can't see how they make all the SDO weeks strong. That is why the system is extremely suspect to me.

Captron said:

Those of us in the know used the systems rules to our advantage by booking prime weeks to deposit and saw awesome exchanges as a result. We are a small minority doing this (note someone got a Easter SDO week this week so only a few can be doing this) .

We were told at purchase (pre Starwood for my Vistana Cascades and SBP weeks) that we can BOOK a week and deposit that week. That is how the CC&Rs are written. They cannot unilaterally change the rules on the fly. That is why documents like that exist and are on record with the county.

I cannot see how they say a SDO 1-52 wil remain strong. There are a small number of power weeks and a larger number of duds. There is a LARGE number of medium power weeks. They cannot make them all strong! I did not buy for a medium power trader. The trading power MAY be strong relative to non-hotel system weeks but NOT as strong as the power March weeks or Easter at SDO or summer at SBP. I was using the system to my advantage but was FULLY within the rules.

I believe they will have problems with some resorts depending on the exact statements in the CC&Rs. All it will take is someone to challenge them. It appears from comments here they will have that challenge from individuals or groups. I am afraid that unless the wording is exactly the same this may have to be done on a resort by resort basis.



I am in for a fight! Count me in!

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As far as booking and depositing any week you want you are correct and I agree 100%. However the problem is the agreement Starwood has with II. II does not have to accept the deposits from us.

It is possible for all the weeks within a season to be strong trading weeks. Take a look at Worldmark. WM chooses the weeks to deposit and WM trades fantastic with II even though most of the resorts have very short high demand periods.

This system may be a positive for owners. Currently my SDO 1-52 trades as good or better than before. Same with my SBP. I'm going to test it out before I condemn it.

What about instant online exchanges?

DeniseM said:

What about instant online exchanges?

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You can still do them but you have to call Starwood and let them know you are going to do an exchange and you want a unit assignment for that purpose. However, you can also do the exchange and then call Starwood afterward.

I was all set to get mad and fight and now I have to wait and see how it works.

Gary - I really appreciate you making these calls and reporting back!

But, I'm still confused - If my 2010 week is not even showing in my Acct., how can I reserve an instant online exchange FIRST and THEN call Starwood? It looks to me like I have to call Starwood first, no matter what?

(BTW - this is hypothetical, because I own EOY at SDO, so I don't have another use year until 2012. I hope you guys get this all straightened out before then! )

However, this whole new process of starwood/II exchange is so complicated!
I don't have to call WM whenever I do exchange.
WM is working perfect, because we are NOT belong to any certain resort, ALL WM owners have SAME trading power and it's pure point system.
How Starwood can do this as a NON-point system? We own different resort in different seasons, and owners are trying to get the best possible weeks for strongest trading power. I doubt that SVN/II would work like WM/II (or WM/RCI).

DeniseM said:

Gary - I really appreciate you making these calls and reporting back!

But, I'm still confused - If my 2010 week is not even showing in my Acct., how can I reserve an instant online exchange FIRST and THEN call Starwood? It looks to me like I have to call Starwood first, no matter what?

(BTW - this is hypothetical, because I own EOY at SDO, so I don't have another use year until 2012. I hope you guys get this all straightened out before then! )

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According to both Starwood and II you use the 2009 "shell" that shows in your online account for any exchanges and the appropriate week will be taken from your Starwood account.

Definitely seems confusing which I did explain to the director at Starwood. She said all members should be receiving documents detailing the system.

gmarine said:

When you want to make an exchange you call Starwood and request an "assignment" for the purpose of an II exchange. This unit is good until June 30 of the second year after your usage year. For example, any assignment in 2009 expires June 30 2011. If you change your mind,this assignment (deposit) can be canceled any time during your year of usage and you can then retain your home resort usage.

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The problem with this is you have to give up that prime reservation in order to get the assignment to search. Under the old method, you didn't have to. AND, if nothing turns up for what you want, depending on when you cancel the request, all the prime reservation dates are likely all gone and you're left with dogs to choose from.

I was concerned about "Request First " exchanges and was told it would work like this. You would make your reservation at your home resort then institute an ongoing search. If/when the search is confirmed you would have to notify Starwood that you wish to cancel the reservation so as to confirm an II exchange. Or II will get notified by Starwood that your week is not available for confirmation in which case you will get notified by II and then have the opportunity to call Starwood while your exchange is still on hold with II. If you do not get a confirmed exchange and/or cancel the request you still retain your home resort reservation.

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Part of the issue for me (and maybe some others) is that I don't always know where I want to go and when I want to go. That's why looking online or seeing "sightings" is good as it helps acts as a prompt to make a decision on when and where to go. It's like that impulse buy. Now I've lost that ability to "see" where I want to go.

djyamyam said:

The problem with this is you have to give up that prime reservation in order to get the assignment to search. Under the old method, you didn't have to. AND, if nothing turns up for what you want, depending on when you cancel the request, all the prime reservation dates are likely all gone and you're left with dogs to choose from.



Part of the issue for me (and maybe some others) is that I don't always know where I want to go and when I want to go. That's why looking online or seeing "sightings" is good as it helps acts as a prompt to make a decision on when and where to go. It's like that impulse buy. Now I've lost that ability to "see" where I want to go.

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I was told that you can indeed keep your home resort reservation while having an ongoing search for another destination. I'm going to confirm tomorrow.

I really dislike the feeling that Starwood is taking a step backwards by forcing us to call them on trades. This was the only part of the Starwood timeshare reservation system (ie. depositing with II) which we were able to do previously online. Now it requires a combination of both online actions and a call to Starwood. No way is this designed to lower their administrative costs.

Part of me can't understand why they would implement such a system before an online reservation system is done, unless there was a financial incentive for them to do so. Starwood must either be earning more from this change, or saving money somehow. Follow the money!

As for my 6pm update: my two SVR fix weeks are still showing correctly at II. I see one late 2010 and one mid-2011 week ready to deposit. Of course, II is claiming I need to pay for another year to deposit them, but I apparently can still do so.

Ouch, this is hurting my brain to read . I don't have any "shell" weeks from 2009 or 2010 showing up in my account. All I can see are my previously deposited weeks. So I can't pretend to deposit anything at all! It will only let me use my old deposits .

I still don't understand why they have taken away our ability to search online two years out. Why the June 30 expiration? In the past, if I had deposited a week 52, 2009 unit, I would have until week 52, 2011 to search. So I could possibly find something for the Fall 2011 or December 2011. Now it sounds like I can only look until June 30, 2011? I don't see what good that is at all. We take summer vacations in July and August, and other vacations in November or December. Does this mean that I could never search for those months at two years out?

gmarine said:

I was told that you can indeed keep your home resort reservation while having an ongoing search for another destination. I'm going to confirm tomorrow.

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I was told the same thing.
BUT - since my week is a fixed event week, I would not be able to get MY week back. I would have to cancel my owned week before searching or before placing an ongoing request. If I would cancel my searches or ongoing requests, Starwood would give me another week back. She wasn't sure what week. I asked if it would be at least my home resort and season, but she couldn't tell.

Denise L said:

Ouch, this is hurting my brain to read . I don't have any "shell" weeks from 2009 or 2010 showing up in my account. All I can see are my previously deposited weeks. So I can't pretend to deposit anything at all! It will only let me use my old deposits .

I still don't understand why they have taken away our ability to search online two years out. Why the June 30 expiration? In the past, if I had deposited a week 52, 2009 unit, I would have until week 52, 2011 to search. So I could possibly find something for the Fall 2011 or December 2011. Now it sounds like I can only look until June 30, 2011? I don't see what good that is at all. We take summer vacations in July and August, and other vacations in November or December. Does this mean that I could never search for those months at two years out?

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It's starting to look that way. When I called, the lady in charge of not giving you the answers your're looking for told me that there is no more deposit first method and that we will be limited to searching for only 1 year. She said "it's always been that way". I said "no it hasn't". She said "yes it has". I said "No it hasn't". And so on...

My guess is what Ken said "follow the money." If Starwood is controlling the inventory prime weeks will end up as rentals for Starwood.Example :If Starwood retains unsold inventory at SBP during gold plus season they will probably rent $th of july week themselves for top dollar.

I spoke to Starwood again today to clarify if you can search more than one year out and if you can retain a reservation while doing a "request first" search. I was told no on both accounts.

I then called the Director who I previously spoke with and she is going to confirm the details and get back to me. My biggest issue is with request first and retaining a reservation. For example, I have a July reservation at SBP. I want to put in a request first search with II for the same time period at a different resort. Normally I would be able to do this and if I dont get the exchange I would still retain my home resort week. As a Starwood supervisor explained to me today I cant do that. My reservation would be canceled when starting a search. Then if I dont get the exchange I'm left trying to secure a summer reservation at SBP only a few months before which isnt going to happen.

If the call back from Starwood confirms that it works this way I cant accept it. At that point I'm going to be asking everyone who has a problem with this new system to email me and anyone willing to help gather other owners will be appreciated. Losing the ability to deposit our own reservation was a negative which I could accept if trading power remained high, which it has, and we could still do request first as before. Not being able to do a request first is the deal breaker in my opinion.

I think this was a huge mistake by the Starwood team that rolled this out with no advance notice to owners. I'll post again when I hear back from Starwood.

I spoke to Starwood again today to clarify if you can search more than one year out and if you can retain a reservation while doing a "request first" search. I was told no on both accounts.

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That was my understanding from my conversation with Starwood back when all this started. That has been my big gripe as a non-SVN owner. Starwood has ruined the system for me because I have always done my own searching online while retaining my reserved week. I often want to look out beyond 1 year and now I can't. I can still search without involving Starwood or giving up my reserved week but the limit of only 1 year is a downgrade in my II membership. Although trade power appears the same as before, I'm not able to control the exchange process as well (for ex: grabbing a 2 bedroom with a L/O unit).

I still might exchange using II but Starwood won't be getting my reserved week. I'll just have to adjust to the 1 year search mode!

If Starwood controlls the II account for non-SVN units I feel they should provide the account like in SVN. I'm not going to renew my non-SVN II account under this system .I'll use or rent the units. Does II give partial use refunds?

I want to be open minded about this, but I just can't get behind a system that requires me to call Starwood. Most Starwood employees that I have spoken to didn't seem to have a great understanding of how things worked. Now they have made it even more complicated...

I'm not too worried about trading power. I own SDO and was given a late fall deposit a couple of years ago that traded quite well. I just don't like dealing with Starwood.

Transit said:

If Starwood controlls the II account for non-SVN units I feel they should provide the account like in SVN. I'm not going to renew my non-SVN II account under this system .I'll use or rent the units. Does II give partial use refunds?

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I was always told by II that I could cancel at any time and receive a pro-rated refund. This is looking good with my 5-year membership already paid for, though I would need to exchange my two existing deposits before cancelling.

I currently have nothing deposited as I got my pending request for exchange into Highlands Inn filled this morning! Yay for that.

I have 6 different resorts in my personal account. All of them I can exchange through other companies. Since I've already spent the money extending my membership until the next century D ) everytime I added another timeshare, I think I may just keep it until my membership expires. I'll continue to use my other units to search 2 years out for possible exchanges since I can no longer do that with my Starwood units. Then I MIGHT call Starwood for an exchange. But I'll be darned if I'll give Starwood control of my unit ahead of time. No way, no how. Not without a guarantee in writing that my reserved week remains mine until I find a suitable exchange.