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Recent Destination Club News

ClubsRDead

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In light of the DCMS board being "gone," I had heard this one offered certain levels informative insight into the various clubs, offerings, what was happening with each, legal issues, redemptions, etc. That hasn't exactly proved to be the case, although those inside of AK have offered what I feel to be good information and opinions. Apparently no one from ER has anything to say, or cares, and few if any from UR/UE have much to say other than hurry and travel while it lasts, which I agree with. I didn't really participate in the prior board, rather read numerous postings when time permitted.

I don't have to waste my time, nor anyone else's here by posting. And am not strongly compelled to do so if every time I post someone wants to start an argument, or a off-the-wall challenge. That's fine if that's what gets the juices flowing for certain individuals, but if I want to add banter to each of my days I can just say something sh*tty to my wife in the morning and start it that way.

I believe, as I have said, that the club business is stagnant, at best. The lack of sales from every club strongly support this. I further have said that no sensible person that cares about their cash flow would join a DC at this time based on the unproven economics and the refund models that exist (i.e., 3-1, etc.) I didn't say that I have the answers, nor do I. I don't believe "everyone in the world" is an idiot, but I do believe there are plenty of them (I must be to some degree, I spent a small fortune of hard earned money to travel this way). I do think AK has larger issues than some think, although members today are obviously traveling and apparently significantly happy. My point to that is that I don't just think by saying "equity model" it solves all the DC problems. You still need a good number of members paying equitable dues to maintain a club and add new, desirable inventory. I don't think UE can forever pull rabbits out of a hat, nor do I think ER will crash and burn, but rather maybe look for a graceful exit - and as I have said, their cookie cutter inventory, to me, makes rational and profitable property liquidations look difficult, which in turn doesn't help their ever-increasing redemption list.

I am all for a "member driven" regulatory group, if it has any merit. But I doubt in private enterprises where compliance isn't required and financials are loosely transparent, at best, that it would have any meaning. Remembering that certain top executives of all the clubs we discuss here have been officers and / or a part of the prior DCA didn't make it any better or their financials any stronger.

In the end, I think some of the sales tactics that are being used today, even by my own club, are manipulative and deceitful. Everyone bantered that TH should not have sold from a certain point forward, whenever it was they realized the ship was sinking and couldn't be saved, thus no likelihood of deposit refunds, full (as promised) or partial. I think there is more than one club in the space today who has a similar problem, and in effect - uncertain of their futures and likely unable to meet their liabilities and obligations, are basically stealing from any new members that join.

That being said, I am open to ongoing, useful conversation about what can be done, if anything, to shore up this industry. I'm not convinced it can be. I'm certainly not convinced that anyone would join a 100% loss of deposit model, but it doesn't mean no one would - just that I wouldn't pay to do it.

I've always thought that those with "skin in the game" have more insight, and certainly more to lose. Many of us have "lost" it all, to some degree. That doesn't mean that outsiders (non-members, for lack of a better word) can't provide useful and helpful insight. But if it's just of the agitative nature, I don't understand the purpose. Anyone can cut and paste old financial data from club documents. What I have found, being a member for a long time, is that most of it was BS to start with, full of numerous omissions and misrepresentations, overstatements, etc. Therefore, I don't understand their relevance today and how it affects pretty much anything going forward, other than proving that people lie, continually.

So banter on, challenge, do whatever makes yourself happy. I am happy to respond or communicate via this manner on useful, thought provoking topics, but not rants.

Just my two-cents for the day...
 

PerryM

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Includes you as "skeptic" yes, "impartial" ... not so much. ;)

4+ years ago I stumbled upon High Country Club on this very website. I was excited and spread the word for a few days and then dug into the company. I warned folks that the "numbers didn't make sense" within days and began my warning in general that the DC industry was a "house of cards" and would implode.

The rest is history - I was the lone voice shouting the insanity of the DC industry back then, sounds like I'm still alone now.

Since then many DCs have come and gone and what's left is a remnant of the heyday years of 2005 - 2007.

My forecast has been and remains the crumbling of the DC industry - better to just create a new "vision" and hawk that. I just can't believe those folks with $400k of "pocket change" want to be associated with a failed concept - the Destination Club.

But I like the idea of a DC, have taken the time to give a business plan away on PerryM.com on how to build the successor to DCs that are 100% equity, and 100% transparent.

Those of you here can ignore me but time will show me to be correct - DCs are dead.

Start over guys, convince your existing DCs to become 100% equity and 100% transparency and call it anything but a DC - anything would be fine.

Those that don't will notice the stench of rotting DCs becoming unbearable to everyone over the next year or so.

But, I'm just one guy with an opinion - take it for what you paid for it.
 

ClubsRDead

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The rest is history - I was the lone voice shouting the insanity of the DC industry back then, sounds like I'm still alone now.


Those of you here can ignore me but time will show me to be correct - DCs are dead.

I don't think you're alone in this. In fact, I haven't read much of your stuff and did just briefly look at your DC Plan. Interesting and intuitive.
 
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New Susan Kime article discussing changes in luxury consumption and mentions ER and A&K:

http://www.luxist.com/2010/03/23/from-conspicuous-to-conscious-consumption-redesigning-the-meani/

"There are some companies -- both in vacation and in retail areas -- that get this, and have changed their marketing and sales messaging to reflect this growing awareness – one that has done this exceptionally well is Exclusive Resorts, the largest and best- known Destination Club now in existence, with -- as mentioned in an earlier Luxist column ----a 2B Real estate portfolio and over 3000 members. Their online and print advertising define luxury, not as acquisition of stuff, but through the scarcity, of time. Time with children before they grow up, time with grandparents so children will remember, time that can be crafted into significant memories. These ideas define new meanings of luxury, especially from a human development perspective.

Abercrombie & Kent Residence Club, a dimension of the famed tour operator Abercrombie & Kent, also has the ability to carry their members to places that will create eco -sensitive, educational memories. Other companies, Exquisite Safaris being the major one, takes their clients to areas in Africa where they can come to know the villagers on a personal level, and create a strong understanding of their needs, allowing new forms of philanthropy to ensue."

Geoffrey Kent CEO CNBC interview about an uptick in travel:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?play=1&video=1443453977

(seems much more optimistic than in this interview from 2009: http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1130799726&play=1)

SmartMoney article on timeshares, fractionals and destination clubs:

http://www.smartmoney.com/Spending/Travel/Vacation-Homes-For-One-Buck/

Ritz-Carlton Destination Club and Annika Sorenstam announce a partnership:

http://www.marketwire.com/press-rel...orenstam-Announce-New-Partnership-1136494.htm
 

PerryM

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Every strip mall has one....

From Smart Money:

"Destination Clubs

For Steve Safigan, the reasons for choosing a destination club over other partial-ownership options were clear: His family could visit a range of destinations and have entire luxury homes to themselves — and an army of concierges at their beck and call. But after the Rome, Ga.*based retiree signed up for a trial membership with High Country Club, it liquidated under Chapter 7 bankruptcy last year, taking his $20,000 membership deposit with it.

Safigan is far from the only destination-club survivor with a tale of financial woe. These clubs — which, for a $200,000 to $300,000 membership, plus annual dues, allow members to stay in any one of a collection of multimillion-dollar homes — have a short but checkered history. Tanner & Haley, the club credited with creating the industry, left more than 800 members as unsecured creditors when it filed for Chapter 11 in 2006, and several smaller bankruptcies followed. Critics claim the club model encourages companies to become overleveraged while providing members with little security.

But while many destination clubs continue to struggle, recent changes suggest the industry may be addressing some of its problems. Clubs like Equity Estates and Abercrombie & Kent Residence Club use an equity model, in which members own the club's actual property and management must conform to strict debt limits. The Ritz-Carlton Destination Club now lets members use points to stay in any of the company's network of fractional or hotel properties. Financial transparency, too, is improving; last year, Ultimate Escapes created a member board of advisers, which is privy to many of the company's financial records and future plans. And the shift in the industry seems to be making at least a few converts — Safigan says he's now a satisfied member of yet another destination club."

This will dog the DC industry for the rest of time - DC losers.

Who really wants to be associated with being taken to the cleaners?
 

ClubsRDead

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Perry,

If a guy only lost $20k in a deposit, he's on the lucky side.

Not sure that I would call UR / UE exactly "transparent." Being a member, I can tell you that getting data, accurate at that, is like pulling teeth.

I've never noted any real success in these clubs tying their name to a celebrity or sports figure. We have Doc Rivers, yippee. We also have some movie director, can't remember his name but after the Oscars UE flooded us with e-mails about them being a member. Who cares?

In reviewing your DC Model Concept on your site, I have trouble understanding in theory how it's really a destination club? Appears to me that you've created more of a fractional model (with points based usage) only with no liquidity? Help me understand.

The allure of your concept of course, which is thereby limiting to the membership base, is that you need to bring an asset. That is very much akin to the fractional concept moreso than the DC side where people come with some cash, but no assets.

Am I missing something?
 

PerryM

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In a nutshell...

Perry,

If a guy only lost $20k in a deposit, he's on the lucky side.

Not sure that I would call UR / UE exactly "transparent." Being a member, I can tell you that getting data, accurate at that, is like pulling teeth.

I've never noted any real success in these clubs tying their name to a celebrity or sports figure. We have Doc Rivers, yippee. We also have some movie director, can't remember his name but after the Oscars UE flooded us with e-mails about them being a member. Who cares?

In reviewing your DC Model Concept on your site, I have trouble understanding in theory how it's really a destination club? Appears to me that you've created more of a fractional model (with points based usage) only with no liquidity? Help me understand.

The allure of your concept of course, which is thereby limiting to the membership base, is that you need to bring an asset. That is very much akin to the fractional concept moreso than the DC side where people come with some cash, but no assets.

Am I missing something?

Ahhh, just what is a DC? Fractional usage is the answer.

DCs at the prime of 2007 were the following:

"8 guys get together and buy a rich guy a condo and then pay him rent to use it" - I said that 4+ years ago.

That model has never made any sense to me - buy someone else (a club) a condo and then pay rent to use it?

A DC should be 100% equity ownership with the founders making their money by putting it together and managing the DC. DC founders were just too greedy and wanted other folks to pony up money for their ownership and take 0, zero, zip, risk.

My Points DC starts by allowing anyone, you, your neighbor, anyone, to put up money and get Points that then can be sold to anyone else or used themselves. All deeds are held in a master trust that have NO liens or other attachments except to the Point holders.

The beauty of this approach is that the Point holders run the club - they are the HOA and hire the management team to run the place. Then the Points can be sold at any point by turning them over to the DC to be interlaced with all Points being sold - no waiting for something to happen - as soon as Points are sold the folks wanting to get out get some money. Points can be sold on eBay if the owner wants.

100% transparency, 100% equity ownership and the villas can be bought and sold to meet the needs of the DC.

That's an overview, hope it helped.
 

Kagehitokiri2

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http://www.elanprc.com/FAQ/

Owner-Members may also stay at other properties within The Élan Collection on an available, flex-time basis.

Twice a year, Owner-Members will submit a priority time reservation request for their vacation residence. If they would like to stay at another property within The Élan Collection, they may exchange their guaranteed use rights for flex time. They will also benefit from unlimited additional access whenever space is available in their own residence, as well as the other residences within the portfolio, subject to the policies of The Élan Collection Reservation System.

hmm...
 
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Ahhh, just what is a DC? Fractional usage is the answer.

DCs at the prime of 2007 were the following:

"8 guys get together and buy a rich guy a condo and then pay him rent to use it" - I said that 4+ years ago.

That model has never made any sense to me - buy someone else (a club) a condo and then pay rent to use it?

A DC should be 100% equity ownership with the founders making their money by putting it together and managing the DC. DC founders were just too greedy and wanted other folks to pony up money for their ownership and take 0, zero, zip, risk.

My Points DC starts by allowing anyone, you, your neighbor, anyone, to put up money and get Points that then can be sold to anyone else or used themselves. All deeds are held in a master trust that have NO liens or other attachments except to the Point holders.

The beauty of this approach is that the Point holders run the club - they are the HOA and hire the management team to run the place. Then the Points can be sold at any point by turning them over to the DC to be interlaced with all Points being sold - no waiting for something to happen - as soon as Points are sold the folks wanting to get out get some money. Points can be sold on eBay if the owner wants.

100% transparency, 100% equity ownership and the villas can be bought and sold to meet the needs of the DC.

That's an overview, hope it helped.

Based on your overview, isn't this like the Ritz-Carlton Destination Club, except I am assuming that you are locked in with RC versus being able to hire and fire management (I've never reviewed their legal docs. so I don't know for sure)?

And isn't this similar to the A&K Residence Club, except A&K has a nights based system instead of a points based system? For example, the members can fire management if desired (although admittedly the contractual periods are pretty long in between votes).

And isn't this like M Private Residences, where the members did fire management and run the club themselves, although again a nights based system instead of a points based system?

There are a number of other clubs as well, but those are the larger ones.
 
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I've never noted any real success in these clubs tying their name to a celebrity or sports figure. We have Doc Rivers, yippee. We also have some movie director, can't remember his name but after the Oscars UE flooded us with e-mails about them being a member. Who cares?

I've never understood this approach, but maybe they've had some marketing success with it given the number of clubs with sports figure tie-ins (ER, UE, Hideaways, and now RC). I could see people wanting to be a member of a country club, because maybe you could spend some time on the golf course or in the club with these folks. But with a DC, it's not like you're spending time with other members, other than for the few clubs that have annual meetings or large member events, and even then, I suspect those people aren't showing up unless they're getting paid or received a free membership. Maybe it gives people some comfort in making their decision to join a club (never mind the fact that sports figures particularly have made terrible business decisions traditionally). Or maybe it's so you can tell your neighbor that hey I'm in the same club as such and such and people get some satisfaction in that.
 

PerryM

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NO!

Based on your overview, isn't this like the Ritz-Carlton Destination Club, except I am assuming that you are locked in with RC versus being able to hire and fire management (I've never reviewed their legal docs. so I don't know for sure)?

And isn't this similar to the A&K Residence Club, except A&K has a nights based system instead of a points based system? For example, the members can fire management if desired (although admittedly the contractual periods are pretty long in between votes).

And isn't this like M Private Residences, where the members did fire management and run the club themselves, although again a nights based system instead of a points based system?

There are a number of other clubs as well, but those are the larger ones.

NO!

Mine is a DC co-op where the management team takes its orders from the owners and not the other way around!

Also, mine has ownership attached to each point from the instant it is created throughout its lifespan until the villa is sold and money returned to the owners.

DCs still believe that risk is to be shared by members and management gets fat dumb and happy. My approach has management in its place - making a nice salary for 40 hours of work a week.

The DC industry tried the "management is the king" approach and it doesn't work. Now its time to try "The owners are the king" approach.

My approach blurs the distinction of "the club" and "the member" - they are one in the same. Under my approach anyone can become an investor/owner and profit from real estate appreciation not the fat cat founders who want to keep everything a secret.

I believe my approach, or something like it, is the future for DCs - the old way of fast talking con-men just isn't a viable approach to DCs.
 

AKTHUE

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Management is King

Mine is a DC co-op where the management team takes its orders from the owners and not the other way around!

DCs still believe that risk is to be shared by members and management gets fat dumb and happy. My approach has management in its place - making a nice salary for 40 hours of work a week.

The DC industry tried the "management is the king" approach and it doesn't work. Now its time to try "The owners are the king" approach.

Guys like Rob McGrath, Christian Kirschner and Jim Tousignant certainly behave like they are royalty, pay themselves extremely well, and have absolute control over how all the money collected from the members is spent.
 

Kagehitokiri2

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There are a number of other clubs as well, but those are the larger ones.

dont think RC fractionals really count because there is no deposit into DC from them, and they can only exchange up to 2 weeks into DC points. btw have we heard how that works? dont recall.

AK and m have ~150 members.
hideaways has ~125 members.
luxus, rocksure, EE have ~100 members.

re celebrities, the only real aspect i see is when you have enclaves.
I met a new ER member on my last vacation at Grand Cayman...He never would have expected that his teenage kids would be playing with Miley Cyrus on vacation and take photos with her, race her in a golf cart and have bragging rights when they get back home.
(i put this under heading of "access" i mentioned earlier.)
 
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NO!

Mine is a DC co-op where the management team takes its orders from the owners and not the other way around!

Also, mine has ownership attached to each point from the instant it is created throughout its lifespan until the villa is sold and money returned to the owners.

DCs still believe that risk is to be shared by members and management gets fat dumb and happy. My approach has management in its place - making a nice salary for 40 hours of work a week.

The DC industry tried the "management is the king" approach and it doesn't work. Now its time to try "The owners are the king" approach.

My approach blurs the distinction of "the club" and "the member" - they are one in the same. Under my approach anyone can become an investor/owner and profit from real estate appreciation not the fat cat founders who want to keep everything a secret.

I believe my approach, or something like it, is the future for DCs - the old way of fast talking con-men just isn't a viable approach to DCs.

OK, so I still don't see the distinction, despite these emphatic comments.

As I mentioned, from what I understand, the members of M Private Residences run the club after they fired the management. Wouldn't this be an example of "where the management team takes its orders from the owners?" Isn't the club [M] and the members one and the same? Furthermore, since the members own the club which owns the real estate, that means they would also benefit from the appreciation (rather than some separate owners), right?

While not quite the same, the A&K example is not that far off either. While A&K RC has a management contract with A&K, they've got the right to fire A&K, so is that so different either? They do a great job, but if they didn't, why wouldn't the members fire them?

I can't compare RC's DC, as I don't know enough about the legal structure, but maybe you do.

Don't get me wrong. I've never been a defender of the non-equity DC, despite catching massive amounts of flak about it up until recently when it became publicly clear what had been going on. Furthermore, I've agreed with you, PerryM, on those related issues both here and on DC4MS, but let's not stereotype every DC and every DC's structure as one and the same. It's like me saying every timeshare company is a scam, run by a bunch of crooks, treat their owners lousily, pay themselves too much money for running them, etc. While it'd be easy for me to throw that around, it wouldn't be true as to the entire industry.
 

Kagehitokiri2

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AK discount ends mar 31 http://destinationclubnews.com/News...esidence_Club_Wraps_Up_Discounted_Pricing.php
we have done approximately the same number of two year trial memberships and equity memberships during the first two months of 2010 as in all of 2009
...

rocksure's first 2 funds only had 6 properties each
their 3rd capital fund will have 10 properties

luxus is planning 30 properties

hideaways seems to be planning 100 properties
i believe FAQ has been updated >
The Property Company does have some borrowings but the borrowings are only negotiated effectively to purchase properties ahead of Members joining, which of course the existing Members benefit from in terms of usage and asset growth. When all the shares are sold, the Property Company will be debt free. At the end of 2008 the financial statements, audited by Deloittes, showed that the Property Company was 80% equity financed.
...
90% of a Member’s subscription goes into the property Fund and is used to acquire properties. The remaining 10% goes into the Club to cover the costs of sourcing, negotiating and preparing the Fund’s properties for use and of course the set up costs for the Fund.
...
When a Member joins they pay a placement fee, £10k at the time of writing, which covers the costs of sales and marketing in the Club. This includes any introductory commissions to our partners, the cost of PR and advertising, sales team commissions and any other marketing costs. It is included in the cost of membership...The placement fee is only payable once, when you first join the Club.
10% - 10K
122,500 > 12,250 - 10,000 (8.2%) = £2,250 (1.8%) (new plan i think?)
160,000 > 16,000 - 10,000 (6.3%) = £6,000 (3.7%)
235,000 > 23,500 - 10,000 (4.3%) = £13,500 (5.7%)
Tax efficient. Ability to use offshore monies, buy through companies or trusts. Can be used for inheritance tax planning. Consult your financial advisor.
is this just because theyre referring to it as an investment?

...

EE is planning 30-35 owned and 13-15 leased, for total of 43-50

...

AK
72.5% to the capital account for purchasing Club assets
12.5% for membership sales and marketing expenses
5% for general and administrative expenses
10% return or profit to A&K manager

luxus
over 91% of the investment goes towards the capital account and buys the homes and furnishings

EE allocates 20% to sales/etc
20% of new capital contributions are specified for use to help grow the fund, aka as being allocated to the “Operating Account”. The previous reference to “growing fund participation, office space, accounting, salaries, etc” addresses “growing the fund participation”—more specifically I was referring to the administrative and other costs related to supporting investor relations professionals like myself. We watch our expenses very carefully. When we travel for business development purposes, conduct events, utilize office space at headquarters and the related overhead thereto, it is paid from this Operating Account.

m
93% of new members' deposits goes towards the purchase of new properties

AFAIK weve only seen AK dues breakdown. that was enough for me to compare with EE. both of these were not THAT different >
1. (AK minus management minus reserve) vs EE
2. (AK minus reserve) vs (EE plus upcoming management)
earlier i mentioned specific numbers re EE's upcoming management fee, as well as max debt costs.
 
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PerryM

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OK, so I still don't see the distinction, despite these emphatic comments.

As I mentioned, from what I understand, the members of M Private Residences run the club after they fired the management. Wouldn't this be an example of "where the management team takes its orders from the owners?" Isn't the club [M] and the members one and the same? Furthermore, since the members own the club which owns the real estate, that means they would also benefit from the appreciation (rather than some separate owners), right?

While not quite the same, the A&K example is not that far off either. While A&K RC has a management contract with A&K, they've got the right to fire A&K, so is that so different either? They do a great job, but if they didn't, why wouldn't the members fire them?

I can't compare RC's DC, as I don't know enough about the legal structure, but maybe you do.

Don't get me wrong. I've never been a defender of the non-equity DC, despite catching massive amounts of flak about it up until recently when it became publicly clear what had been going on. Furthermore, I've agreed with you, PerryM, on those related issues both here and on DC4MS, but let's not stereotype every DC and every DC's structure as one and the same. It's like me saying every timeshare company is a scam, run by a bunch of crooks, treat their owners lousily, pay themselves too much money for running them, etc. While it'd be easy for me to throw that around, it wouldn't be true as to the entire industry.

Any of these existing DCs allow their members to sell their membership on eBay for a price they are willing to accept?

Well mine does...

Mine has no stupid rule of "3 new sales before an existing member may exit" - anyone believing that the existing DCs are close to mine just don't want to face reality - the existing DCs are a house of cards waiting for that last bump to crumble.
 
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Any of these existing DCs allow their members to sell their membership on eBay for a price they are willing to accept?

Well mine does...

Mine has no stupid rule of "3 new sales before an existing member may exit" - anyone believing that the existing DCs are close to mine just don't want to face reality - the existing DCs are a house of cards waiting for that last bump to crumble.

M does allow private resales currently. I assume RC does as well, based on prior offerings and EBay postings that people put on DC4MS.

Not sure if A&K allows private resales, but management switched to a 1 in: 1 out (versus the 3 in: 1 out rule that you cite). I assume (but could be wrong) that if you brought your buyer, you could sell to that buyer.

I actually both agree and disagree that the 3 in: 1 out rule is stupid. If I was a member wanting liquidity and the ability to get out, I'd want a 1 in: 1 out rule. If I'm a member staying on with a club, I'd prefer that a club had 3 in: 1 out rule, so that the club could continue to grow and continually add houses and locations. I guess my overall preference is that in economic times like this, you need a 1 in: 1 out to give people liquidity, but normally, I might prefer a 3 in: 1 out.
 
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Kagehitokiri2

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luxus is 2:1 right now.
AK is 1:1 for everyone now? nice. (temporarily)

...

luxus / rocksure - barebones

hideaways - little to no debt, 2 DC partnerships

AK - 5% debt cap, few leases, fewer hotels, AK partnership

m private residences - high debt cap (leases = ?)

EE - high debt cap, leases, 1 DC partnership
 
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PerryM

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Dinosaurs at warp speed..

M does allow private resales currently. I assume RC does as well, based on prior offerings and EBay postings that people put on DC4MS.

Not sure if A&K allows private resales, but management switched to a 1 in: 1 out (versus the 3 in: 1 out rule that you cite). I assume (but could be wrong) that if you brought your buyer, you could sell to that buyer.

I actually both agree and disagree that the 3 in: 1 out rule is stupid. If I was a member wanting liquidity and the ability to get out, I'd want a 1 in: 1 out rule. If I'm a member staying on with a club, I'd prefer that a club had 3 in: 1 out rule, so that the club could continue to grow and continually add houses and locations. I guess my overall preference is that in economic times like this, you need a 1 in: 1 out to give people liquidity, but normally, I might prefer a 3 in: 1 out.

Is there a handy-dandy chart of this for ALL DC's out there?

With a Points DC ALL members who want to sell their memberships immediately start to get a check as Points are sold.

e.g.
I own 20,000 Points which I paid $10 for a few years ago and a divorce court requires immediate selling of 10,000 Points.

5 other members need to sell Points too and so does the DC.

1 Point sells for $7 now (after decrease of the value of the yearly appraisal).

Another member want's to buy 7,000 more Points.

Out of those 7,000 Points I get to liquidate 1,000 Points (7 of us selling at the same time) and a check is cut for $7,000 to me minus a small processing fee. The other 5 members get $7,000 checks too as does the DC.

This is instant liquidation of memberships as each new sale is made.

I put the remaining 6,000 Points up on eBay and sell 4,000 at $5 each or $20,000 in my pocket and have 2,000 that the DC can still sell.

This is but one example of the dinosaur DC concepts used now and what could be used if the members wanted a change into the 21st century.
 

NeilGoBlue

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luxus is 2:1 right now.
AK is 1:1 for everyone now? nice.

To be straight...it's only temporary.. i'm hoping it will be permanent... but not sure..

I think all clubs should go to it.. it solves the members concerns and solves the 'run on the bank' concern that management has...
 
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To be straight...it's only temporary.. i'm hoping it will be permanent... but not sure..

I think all clubs should go to it.. it solves the members concerns and solves the 'run on the bank' concern that management has...

It'll be interesting to see if it stays that way. I know the idea was to keep the resignation list at 0 or close to it.

Frankly, I think the reason a lot of clubs haven't gone to that arrangement is they need the cash flow from existing members (i.e., can't afford to let them out) and need the money from new deposits (i.e., don't want to pay all of the new deposits out to the resigning members). This is particularly the case with clubs that have no guidelines on what can be done with new deposits. I have no way of knowing this, but I'm cynical enough now to believe it.
 
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