Anybody heard of eBay Seller BenjaminTimeshares?

csxjohn · Nov 14, 2014

chapjim said:
To me, the bidding sequence looks really fishy. Maybe there's a benign explanation, but the jump from $2,500 to $12,000 looks really suspicious.

There were 159 bids, all of which are not shown, and because this auction is a year old we can't click to see "actual" bids, just auto bids.

This would explain the big jump.

I did not know that you lose the ability to see the actual bids over time. I have seen actual bids on "private" auctions so I'm assuming it's the time lapse.

Roger830 · Nov 14, 2014

chapjim said:
To me, the bidding sequence looks really fishy. Maybe there's a benign explanation, but the jump from $2,500 to $12,000 looks really suspicious.

There's nothing suspicious here.

Someone bid $2,501 12 seconds before the auction end, also someone bid $12,000. That would have incremented the bid to $2551 which isn't being shown.
Then another snipe came in 8 seconds before the auction end, incrementing the bid $100 over the previous high bid to $12100. This happens all day on ebay.

chapjim · Nov 14, 2014

Roger830 said:
There's nothing suspicious here.

Someone bid $2,501 12 seconds before the auction end, also someone bid $12,000. That would have incremented the bid to $2551 which isn't being shown.
Then another snipe came in 8 seconds before the auction end, incrementing the bid $100 over the previous high bid to $12100. This happens all day on ebay.

I thought there would have been some bids showing between $2,551 and $12,000.

csxjohn · Nov 15, 2014

chapjim said:
I thought there would have been some bids showing between $2,551 and $12,000.

If the option were still available to "see all bids" they would be there. Look at a current auction from the same seller and you'll see what I mean.

Roger830 · Nov 15, 2014

If nobody bid between $2501 and $12,000, why would bids show?

Some people like me put in only one bid a few seconds before the auction close with the maximum amount that I'm willing to pay. I've been doing that for 14 years. Making an early bid is like showing part of your hand in poker. Why show another bidder that you are there?

It's obvious that there were two bidders here that shared that philosophy, one at $12,000 and another at an unknown higher amount.

Below that it appears that two bidders might have thought they were at a live auction and bid in increments.

ebay shows the actual bids placed, not those incremented, except for the final winning bid.

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=281197168182&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565

csxjohn · Nov 15, 2014

Roger830 said:
If nobody bid between $2501 and $12,000, why would bids show?

...
http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=281197168182&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565

They would show if you could see "all bids" because the person who bid $12,000 only has to beat the $2501 bid by a minimum amount, that's the way eBay works.

Those smaller incremental bids are not showing in this case because of, I believe, the age of this auction.

If the minimum bid on an item is $1.00 and I bid $100, the bid will show as $1.00.

If you then bid $200 the high bid will show as $101, (assuming $1 is the bid increment at that point) The bid details will not show the bidding going up a dollar at a time to get to the $100, it will only show the $1 then the $100.

Now if someone else bids $150 the high bid will show as $151 with you being the high bidder.

For that $12,000 bid to show someone had to have had a bid in for around $11,900 or so and so on down the line to get back to the $2501.( I don't know the break points for the increments.)

In my example, if your max bid was $12,000, no one would know that until someone else bids somewhere near that amount. It would not show up suddenly as $12,000 after my $100 bid.

Roger830 · Nov 15, 2014

This is what ebay states:
"Only actual bids (not automatic bids generated up to a bidder's maximum) are shown."

Only bidders maximum bids are shown, not generated increment bids except for the winning bid.

The $12,000 is someone's maximum and it shows because someone bid higher, we don't know how high because it incremented $100 over the $12,000 bid. The winner could have bid $15,000 or $20,000. What we know is someone bid $2501, then someone bid $12,000, then someone bid $12,100 or more.

csxjohn · Nov 15, 2014

Roger830 said:
This is what ebay states:
"Only actual bids (not automatic bids generated up to a bidder's maximum) are shown."

Only bidders maximum bids are shown, not generated increment bids except for the winning bid.

The $12,000 is someone's maximum and it shows because someone bid higher, we don't know how high because it incremented $100 over the $12,000 bid. The winner could have bid $15,000 or $20,000. What we know is someone bid $2501, then someone bid $12,000, then someone bid $12,100 or more.

Someone had a bid in for $11,900 or that $12,000 bid would not have shown up. It was probably the person who had the $2501 bid it but we don't know because of the "private auction" nonsense.

Roger830 · Nov 15, 2014

If nobody bidded $12,000 then the winner would have paid $2551.

This happens on most auctions, the second highest bid shows and increments the final bid unless they are the same, then the earlier bid would win.

If there were only two bidders, one at $12,000 and on at $15,000 then we would see $12,000 and $12,100. There is no need for $11,900.

csxjohn · Nov 16, 2014

Roger830 said:
If nobody bidded $12,000 then the winner would have paid $2551.

This happens on most auctions, the second highest bid shows and increments the final bid unless they are the same, then the earlier bid would win.

If there were only two bidders, one at $12,000 and on at $15,000 then we would see $12,000 and $12,100. There is no need for $11,900.

If nobody had a max bid $11,900 we would not see the $12,000 bid. His bid would have been just enough to out bid the next highest bid. The next highest bid was $11,900, that's why we see $12,000 at that point.

If the highest bid out there was $2,550, then yes, the person who put in the $12,000 bid would have seen his bid at $2,551, not $12,000.

The second highest bid doesn't always show unless you have the ability to see "all bids." in this case we can't do that. Those auto bids are hidden on first glance and you must click to see the auto bids. That option is not here.

I see nothing fishy about these bids, business as normal on eBay.

Roger830 · Nov 16, 2014

Once again consider a new auction that starts at $1 with only two bids.

The winning bid is $12,100, but the bid was $15,000.
At that price the increment is $100, therefore the other bid which is also the second highest bid must be $12,000.

If we then look at the bid history, we would see $12,000 $12,100.

There would never be $11,900, just like the auction in question.

harveyhaddixfan · Nov 16, 2014

Here's the underlying issues:

Is this 2,000,000 point contract even worth the final bid price?

Rent_Share · Nov 16, 2014

harveyhaddixfan said:
Here's the underlying issues:

Is this 2,000,000 point contract even worth the final bid price?

To someone with an active rental business, that was either able to back door VIP or is lowering their average point cost to supplement their rentals

csxjohn · Nov 16, 2014

Roger830 said:
Once again consider a new auction that starts at $1 with only two bids.

The winning bid is $12,100, but the bid was $15,000.
At that price the increment is $100, therefore the other bid which is also the second highest bid must be $12,000.

If we then look at the bid history, we would see $12,000 $12,100.

There would never be $11,900, just like the auction in question.

You are correct for an auction with only those two bids. In the auction being discussed there were other bids so your example here does not fit.

Roger830 · Nov 16, 2014

It doesn't matter if there are 2 bids or 2 million bids, the two highest bids determine the winning price. All of the bids below are meaningless. When multiple high bids have the same value, then the earliest bid is the winner.

With 14 years experience on ebay, both buying and selling, I see nothing suspicious with the bidding on the auction in question.

That will conclude my discussion on this topic.

Beefnot · Nov 16, 2014

Roger830 said:
It doesn't matter if there are 2 bids or 2 million bids, the two highest bids determine the winning price. All of the bids below are meaningless. When multiple high bids have the same value, then the earliest bid is the winner.

With 14 years experience on ebay, both buying and selling, I see nothing suspicious with the bidding on the auction in question.

That will conclude my discussion on this topic.

I believe you are indeed correct. The 2 bid example was given for simplicity, but it does not matter the number of bids for your example to hold.

csxjohn · Nov 17, 2014

Roger830 said:
It doesn't matter if there are 2 bids or 2 million bids, the two highest bids determine the winning price. All of the bids below are meaningless. When multiple high bids have the same value, then the earliest bid is the winner.

With 14 years experience on ebay, both buying and selling, I see nothing suspicious with the bidding on the auction in question.

That will conclude my discussion on this topic.

I see that I WAS WRONG again. After only 13 years of using eBay I agree with your statement that there is noting suspicious about the bidding here and in my efforts to support that view I was blinded by the lack of an ability to see "all bids."

As I was waking up this morning and had nothing else on my mind it hit me like a 2 X 4.

The person whose bid showed at $2,501 had submitted a high bid of $12,000. His high bid was exposed when someone bid more than $12,000 and won it for $12,100.

Don't know why I didn't see it earlier but the one thing I did learn is that the ability to see "all bids" is not present here. When it is, strange looking bidding patterns are made clearer to me.

At least we thoroughly explored chapjim's concern that the bidding looks fishy.

Roger830 · Nov 17, 2014

"The person whose bid showed at $2,501 had submitted a high bid of $12,000. His high bid was exposed when someone bid more than $12,000 and won it for $12,100."

The way that I see it is the $2,501 is an actual bid and the $12,000 made it $2,551 which doesn't show because it's an automatic bid. Like you stated, the winner then exposed his bid and remove $2,551.

It's confusing because the bids are not in the order of when they were entered.

Start with $2,300. Then came $2,500 which made it $2,350 which doesn't show because it's automatic. Next came $2,400 which made it $2,450 because of the prior $2,500 bid. Then came $2,501 which made it $2,501 because of the $2,500 bid. The $12,000 bid came next, even thought shown at the same time as $2,501. That made it $2,551 which doesn't show. If $12,000 came before $2,501, the the automatic bid would have been $2,550 and $2,501 wouldn't have been accepted. The winning bid removed automatic bid $2,551, but exposed $12,000.

Feel free to correct me if you see it differently.

TheTimeTraveler · Nov 17, 2014

Roger830 said:
"The person whose bid showed at $2,501 had submitted a high bid of $12,000. His high bid was exposed when someone bid more than $12,000 and won it for $12,100."

The way that I see it is the $2,501 is an actual bid and the $12,000 made it $2,551 which doesn't show because it's an automatic bid. Like you stated, the winner then exposed his bid and remove $2,551.

It's confusing because the bids are not in the order of when they were entered.

Start with $2,300. Then came $2,500 which made it $2,350 which doesn't show because it's automatic. Next came $2,400 which made it $2,450 because of the prior $2,500 bid. Then came $2,501 which made it $2,501 because of the $2,500 bid. The $12,000 bid came next, even thought shown at the same time as $2,501. That made it $2,551 which doesn't show. If $12,000 came before $2,501, the the automatic bid would have been $2,550 and $2,501 wouldn't have been accepted. The winning bid removed automatic bid $2,551, but exposed $12,000.

Feel free to correct me if you see it differently.

I think this is understood by all, but it doesn't address shill bidding and "private" bidding auctions (where this is very easy to exist).

.

Jason245 · Nov 18, 2014

Jason245 said:
I plan on calling later this week. Have a ton of things going on right now and probably won't be able to call until thursday or friday.

Just got around to calling today.

Everything is golden, they have my info and were very helpfull on the phone.

DeniseM · Nov 20, 2014

UPDATE on rental

DeniseM said:
Update: I just found out that the previous owner DEPOSITED the 2015 week from the timeshare I just bought from Benjamin Timeshares. Not happy…

Yes - it was advertised as first usage in 2015...

First of all Chris, at Benjamin Timeshares has been very responsive about this situation.

As expected, the previous owner "claimed" that they didn't deposit the 2015 week, and to prove it, the sent a screen shot from their RCI Acct. - a shot of the wrong page. I was immediately suspicious (this is not my first rodeo.)

I pointed that out to Chis, and suggested that he ask them for a screen shot of the "weeks you have deposited page," and BINGO - there is was!

I guess they thought no one would notice…..

According to Chris, Wyndham has agreed to reverse the deposit, and that is still pending.

Jason245 · Nov 21, 2014

DeniseM said:
First of all Chris, at Benjamin Timeshares has been very responsive about this situation.

As expected, the previous owner "claimed" that they didn't deposit the 2015 week, and to prove it, the sent a screen shot from their RCI Acct. - a shot of the wrong page. I was immediately suspicious (this is not my first rodeo.)

I pointed that out to Chis, and suggested that he ask them for a screen shot of the "weeks you have deposited page," and BINGO - there is was!

I guess they thought no one would notice…..

According to Chris, Wyndham has agreed to reverse the deposit, and that is still pending.

Based on this and my experience, I think that this company is on the Up and Up. This incident seems to be the equivilant of someone lieing to their real estate agent about some defect in the house which is only detected at closing at the last minute (or maybe a title defect after close)

It sucks, but I don't think you can hold them accountable (this is why people buy title insurance etc on purchases of homes).

throughout my process, Chris was very responsive to e-mails.

DeniseM · Nov 21, 2014

Jason245 said:
This incident seems to be the equivilant of someone lieing to their real estate agent about some defect in the house which is only detected at closing at the last minute (or maybe a title defect after close)

Definitely - and since the owners intentionally sent him a screen shot of the wrong RCI page as evidence - it was no mistake...

tschwa2 · Nov 26, 2014

Benjamin Timeshares ebay gift card

I won an auction last night that advertised a $500 prepaid Visa gift card. I received the contract today and there was no mention of the gift card. I asked to have it listed in the contract and the seller said that if they did the HOA was likely to refuse the transfer (Vacation Village at Parkway). Would you go ahead with the sale or should I back out?

Beefnot · Nov 26, 2014

I had a similar deal with a different seller, Groupwise, and everything worked out. After the transfer, I got my $500 gift card from them. Given my positive prior experience with Benjamin Timeshares, I find them to be on the up and up, so I would expect them to completely honor the commitment.

Anybody heard of eBay Seller BenjaminTimeshares?

csxjohn

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Roger830

chapjim

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csxjohn

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Roger830

csxjohn

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Roger830

csxjohn

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Roger830

csxjohn

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Rent_Share

csxjohn

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Roger830

Beefnot

csxjohn

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TheTimeTraveler

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DeniseM

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Beefnot