Timeshare Sale Presentation

TUGBrian said:

I personally see more "Scam" in the lies and misleading statements made in the sales presentations than I do with the inflated retail prices.

the latter i just consider a poor financial decision..while the former is most certainly an intent to defraud by deliberately misleading a customer.

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I do not think you can separate the lies from the price. If the price were not so inflated the lies would not be needed. Scam may be a harsh word, but not altogether untrue because of the lies given to justify a high price.

Why? How much lower? 50%? 75%? Who spends that much money without checking into what they are buying? Not me, and I bought direct. What's a fair price?

I went through 4 different systems, resale, and about 15 years of vacations and presentations before I chose to buy. And then, I had the funds, and a plan as to what I wanted to do before committing.

When I look at some of the prices people are paying for their timeshare who just bought, it is quite apparent they made a major life decision without much thought. That's the real problem.

I paid just over 40% of the rack price, and I probably, according to most here, paid too much. But, I felt it was a fair price compared to what offers I received, and what i considerfeasible. Uneducated date of the moment buyers are as responsible as the lieing scumbags selling them.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

I still see it as separate.

I can charge whatever I want for something I own on craigslist....inflated or no. (its also important to note that the retail prices in those presentations are not fixed, but can be negotiated a great deal...many take the first or second or even third offer, its all part of the pitch!)

however if I lie about its condition, or dont disclose its broken, etc etc when I specifically know that it is....that is a scam (And a crime).

unfortunately in a job where your single source of income is convincing people to sign a contract, you will find those in that job that both skirt...and cross the line with customers.

also any salesperson successful enough to remain in the industry and get promoted to sales manager or higher up in the department knows full well what goes on in some of those presentations.

Referring to ACESs' post---

I think this is the main reason most people are unhappy with timeshares and why they have such bad reputations.

1) complicated exchanging rules and not giving buyers the correct specifics of what it really takes to exchange

2) In an effort to sell less in demand weeks, they tell people they can buy one of those weeks for a discount and exchange into the week they want anyway. Or to go "anywhere in the world". Then reality sets in when the buyers find they can't. (one reason I like the idea of just buying where and when you want to go and why I also stayed away from points of any kind. We just show up every year the same weeks to the resorts we own at and enjoy. And we did buy our first timeshare through the developer for a hefty price and we have enjoyed it for 17 years. It was worth the money as it has paid for itself over time. Second one was acquired free)

Retail Purchase

In October 1999 my wife and I attended a sales presentation at Grandview at the Woods(now Westgate Branson Woods). We had attended many before, but the fixed weeks product was not appealing. They were very busy, so they had to recruit an owner rep. to attend to us. We were prepared for the usual bull and high pressure, but were in for a surprise! We did the tour and then sat down for the for the sales pitch. She explained the usual benefits, etc. She then told us about flexible weeks and how we could come any week if we chose that option. She also said that we should make reservations as early as possible to get the week we wanted. Then the surprise! She said it is not a financial investment, but an investment in a quality vacation experience. She estimated the first 10 years would be a negative, meaning more expensive than a comparable vacation, but that after that each year would be increasingly a better value. We bought that day and have been very happy with our timeshare! We have since bought at Windham Branson Meadows resale. We have taken many sales presentations since to help pay some trip expenses(none in last 5 years)and have had to endure high pressure and dubious sales tactics! With Grandview, the owners yearly review was just that! Asking if we were pleased and if there was anything they could do to make it better. They would also tell us about some units they had to take back that were available at a reduced price. They never pressured us. After Westgate took over, the owners review was a nightmare. After many years of being rude to the sales weasels there, they have stopped asking us to attend.

Ace said:

In some ways, timeshare companies ARE legitimate businesses. Even though the timeshare prices are high when bought from developers, there wouldn’t be any timeshares without them. By extension, if there weren’t timeshares to begin with that were purchased from developers, there wouldn’t be any timeshares on the resale market.

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I so appreciate your saying this. So many people on this board don't seem to have that basic understanding.

Whats the right price ?

Here's my take on retail prices vs resale . whats it worth ?

First maybe you should concider the cost of a unit vs a hotel ? Remember a one bedroom suite avg is $ 200 - 400 ( don't slam me )
$200 * 365 days a year = $ 73,000
$ 400 = $ 146,000
so $ 1400 - 2800 / week + tips sales tax etc

If you want to go a week for "free" , you'd need to keep $140,000 in a bank to earn that $ 1,400

A time share costs you at least an average $ 500 a week for mainainance so deduct $ 500 from $ 1,400 = 900

Your saving $ 1,000 - 2,000 a year on hotel costs for the cost of a time share $ 5,000 - 20,000. which means its made up for itself in 5 - 10 years typically.

Kid of like figuring payback on solar roof.

Now - You need to see what the real rental rates are for the resorts you like Branson is CHEAP $ 700 a week - why bother buying ...
Hawaiii / Caribbean is EXPENSIVE $ 2 -4,000 a week for a good place.

FYI - I just rented Wyndham bonnet creek Orlando for Sept .
1 bedroom suite $ 498
2 bedroom suite $ 605 !!!!

Why buy ?
Guaranteed time share dates ( possibly )
Overall cheaper if you plan on staying in one for 10 + years.
SOME resale eventually - maybe ...
room stays same

Why not ?

No control over management
No control over raising taxes / mainainence
No control over neighbors / who rents

what I'd look for
Large resort so fee's stay low
easy access IE short trip or air ride .
handicap accessibility as I get older
Sports or features you want IE tennis / golf fishing.
local restaurants
Elevators
Good Management
good trade power ......

Just my two cents to all
:whoopie::whoopie::whoopie:

coolarry said:

In October 1999 my wife and I attended a sales presentation at Grandview at the Woods(now Westgate Branson Woods). We had attended many before, but the fixed weeks product was not appealing. They were very busy, so they had to recruit an owner rep. to attend to us. We were prepared for the usual bull and high pressure, but were in for a surprise! We did the tour and then sat down for the for the sales pitch. She explained the usual benefits, etc. She then told us about flexible weeks and how we could come any week if we chose that option. She also said that we should make reservations as early as possible to get the week we wanted. Then the surprise! She said it is not a financial investment, but an investment in a quality vacation experience. She estimated the first 10 years would be a negative, meaning more expensive than a comparable vacation, but that after that each year would be increasingly a better value. We bought that day and have been very happy with our timeshare! We have since bought at Windham Branson Meadows resale. We have taken many sales presentations since to help pay some trip expenses(none in last 5 years)and have had to endure high pressure and dubious sales tactics! With Grandview, the owners yearly review was just that! Asking if we were pleased and if there was anything they could do to make it better. They would also tell us about some units they had to take back that were available at a reduced price. They never pressured us. After Westgate took over, the owners review was a nightmare. After many years of being rude to the sales weasels there, they have stopped asking us to attend.

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I love branson also - esp when I can get westgate cabins with a fire place . but i trade and go fishing ... Usually I just tell them sorry I have 8 weeks already ....

Time for a Poll

buckor said:

So, my question is (and was) what could the developers and sales folks do to change the perception that the TS industry is just a bunch of used car sales types? What could potentially be done for people to see value in the "new car" purchase they've made, even though it will depreciate immediately? What would it take for a TS developer to impress Tuggers with their sales process and pricing?

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Hmm. You've made me think of an interesting question.

--I bought my timeshare resale (arranged by the HOA actually) after returning one I'd been given to its HOA. I would not have bought new from the developer.
--I don't buy new cars. I buy cars 1-5 years old and drive them until they have little value left.

But we all know people who walk into the car dealer, pay sticker price, and are happy. We all know that the biggest drop in value a new car takes is that first mile home from the dealership. (And, coincidentally, we know that many have heard from TS sales people that "You wouldn't want a used one, would you?")

The question: Is there a correlation between those who are happy with developer timeshares and those who buy new cars? Do most TUGgers buy used cars?

I propose a poll. Brian could set it up once we agree on the questions. I'm thinking this would answer my query:

1. Would you (A) Ever buy a new car, or (B) Always buy used cars?
2. Would you ever (A) Buy a timeshare from the developer, or (B) Always buy timeshares on the resale market?

Please feel free to critique the wording of this poll. I don't have formal training in forming poll questions and wonder if my wording reflects bias.

Larry
Egrets Point (Edisto Island, SC) fixed week 33

Dare you to post it on YouTube!

DeniseM said:

The problem is that they are actually encouraged/required to be dishonest by the sales structure. We have seen videos of training programs and materials that make this pretty clear.

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You actually have access to internal training videos? Or presentation slides? How about posting some on YouTube and putting a link here on TUG? The rest of us would find it both educational and entertaining.

Larry M

Third parties are involved too

DeniseM said:

Sales and corporate resort management are usually two completely separate departments. I would say that corporate looks the other way.

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Don't forget that third parties are involved. I imagine there are third-party timeshare sellers and I know for a fact that third parties are used to recruit leads. These folks are under much less obligation to be honest, and in some cases don't even know the product well enough to represent it fairly.

My late wife and I used to often take "free" weekends just for the getaway and premiums. I'd sometimes even negotiate for additional premiums before I would agree to go. One time I wasn't particularly interested in traveling and told the phone solicitor "Look. I don't think we qualify. We've been to six of these presentations in the last two years and we have never bought."

Her response was "It doesn't matter. We've qualified you and it doesn't matter whether you buy or not." She mentioned that she got paid anyway and may have mentioned that qualification was based on income, residential location, or home ownership--I don't remember.

buckor said:

Hello Tuggers!

There have been a lot of comments on here about TS presentations and how buying retail is a "scam". So, I did some research.

About 30-50% of the cost of the TS (depending on company) is for marketing and advertising (including all the gift cards, free meals, mini-vacations, park tickets, etc., the TS companies give away).

Another 15% or so is sales commissions.

Another 10-20% is the actual cost of the unit and resort features.

Another 10-30% is profit.

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Buckor, you forgot the commission for the third-party who lines up the pigeons for the sales weasels--including duds like me.

Larry M

Caveat Emptor

My wife and I attended five sales presentations in Aruba about 4 years ago. Each outright lied or misrepresented the truth. I personally am happy people buy directly from the resorts because they pay the freight to keep the place profitable. We ended up buying seven timeshares, all resale. Folks get enamored with all promises but fail to do the due diligence. I say caveat emptor.

I'm a retired estate-planning attorney and had counseled clients on how to dispose at death of timeshares they not longer use and that their heirs do not want. At the moment, the options are limited to disclaiming a bequest of a time-share, devising it to the developer (or some other unsuspecting beneficiary like the IRS or a hated individual) or to a trust that has no other assets with which to pay the maintenance fees. None of these alternatives provide a good way to clear title to the timeshare unit in a manner that allows it to be resold easily.


One of the best things that time-share developers could do to enhance the marketability of their product is to provide an exit strategy for their buyers. One alternative would be to sell a term-of-years rather than perpetual ownership. This is a win-win for both parties: buyers know when their term expires and will be confident that they won't have to saddle their heirs with maintenance fees, and developers know they will get back product to re-sell in the future without having to develop new properties.

Another alternative would be to offer a guaranteed buy-back based on a formula that takes into consideration what the product is selling for on the resale market. Sure, the owner takes a hit, but at least doesn't have to go begging for a buyer and, again, is assured that his or her heirs aren't saddled with maintenance fees for something they don't want or can't afford.

I believe timeshare sales would be more robust if buyers were confident that there would be a way to dispose of them EASILY when they no longer made sense.