Advantages of Owning at Independent Resorts

The first advantage is price. I bought a number of Prime Weeks (some ocean front) at Independent Resorts for less than $1,000. Sure they were not luxury, but they were well managed and had prime locations.

I have found another advantage is getting rid of them when they no longer fit my timesharing needs. Three times (out of three tries) I have been able to deed Weeks back to the HOAs just by asking.

George

George

These resorts are often in the control of the owners, not the developer, Which means they are managed by and for the owners, not the developer. Also I find it refreshing that when I call with a question or problem I can talk with someone that is on the property, and has a real understanding of what Im talking about, not someone in a call center somewhere.

Although I havent done it, I think that if I was to attend an HOA meeting, I would be welcomed and listened to.

A well run independent resort can be a great value especially compared to the excessive (IMO) overhead most brand names automatically bring. While I applaud the quality they often require there is nothing to prevent an independent from offering the same or better, but without the unnecessary fees and percentage cuts those groups also tend to apply. In fact we bought our first, and still favorite, independent resort based at least in part on the fact that it offered brand name level quality and amenities in a better location than the brand names had. That resort developer wasn't afraid to be part of a development they didn't control (a planned community) and leveraged that development to help provide great features at a greatly reduced cost (spread over all the master Association members rather than being charged to just the resort owners).

Over the years the owners did in fact assume control (although not quite the way the original plan was presented) and have made it a goal to keep that smaller, never to grow resort competitive with the latest and greatest, but with stable and reasonable fees. There are both long and short term plans to assure proper maintenance. And every dollar goes to improve / operate the resort - no 10 or 15% wasted overhead for the right to have a name on the signs. They stand as proud independents that don't need the safety net of a brand name to have quality. Everything they do is top notch and built to last.

Perhaps just as importantly they have locations that the massive requirements of the brand names tend to ignore. Being located in prime real estate in the heart of the best areas add a feature no remote development, no matter how nice, can equal. We now recommend only owner controlled resorts as the best choice for value. We can use ours to easily obtain trades into the brand names if we want. Overall we're usually happy to stay at our home resorts just like we planned to over 15 years ago when we purchased. The brand names have come and gone for us. We tried them, enjoyed them, but ultimately found the value wasn't in that model but the independents had it in spades.

Beating the oddss...

bogey21 said:

I have found another advantage is getting rid of them when they no longer fit my timesharing needs. Three times (out of three tries) I have been able to deed Weeks back to the HOAs just by asking.

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I too choose to own only at owner controlled resorts. You (and John above) have elaborated nicely on some of the reasons why...

That said, I do think that "3 for 3" on deedback requests is extraordinarily good luck and likely not at all the statistical norm...

theo said:

I too choose to own only at owner controlled resorts. You (and John above) have elaborated nicely on some of the reasons why...

That said, I do think that "3 for 3" on deedback requests is extraordinarily good luck and likely not at all the statistical norm...

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I concur. I only will buy at member-controlled resorts. They tend to be better run and work for the members, not the developer.

One somewhat rare provision that I also like, that has been in place at two OBX resorts I have owned at is requiring a vote by the members at the annual meeting on the budget, which includes the m/f. That way the HOA board has to present their proposed budget in a way that members will understand it, and that makes for a more transparent financial system.

Is there a list of owner controlled resorts?

Carolinian said:

One somewhat rare provision that I also like, that has been in place at two OBX resorts I have owned at is requiring a vote by the members at the annual meeting on the budget, which includes the m/f. That way the HOA board has to present their proposed budget in a way that members will understand it, and that makes for a more transparent financial system.

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I love this also, as our resort does something similiar. We own Marriott and also at Royal Dunes in HHI. We love it. The resort has vigorously fought to maintain independence and control from Diamond Resorts (they are AFFILIATED in the sense that Diamond owners can book RD thru Diamond, but they are not RUN by them) and we get newsletters and lots of information about how our MF are used to improve the resort. There is a lot of owner loyalty there and the staff is so friendly. Anytime we've had a problem or question we get answers quickly. RD has a management company that acts as a consultant and helps collect MF but I can always call the resort and get things figured out. It is so much nicer and more personal than the Marriott we own - and I have to say, it's a beautiful resort that's close to on par with Marriott, for MF that are less than $800 per year, and that's in HHI for a 3 bedroom! There are pluses to owning a big name like Marriott in certain ways, but I am so fond of my Royal Dunes, and grateful to the Tugger who pointed me in the right direction there!!

The Disadvantages of Developer Control

A case study of the disadvantages of developer control of a timeshare resort is the Horseshoe Resort in Ontario. Long-time owners of RTU leases vs. new developer with an agenda. Here's a recent news report:

http://www.simcoe.com/community/barrieinnisfil/article/998799

Comparing apples to oranges

Maple_Leaf said:

A case study of the disadvantages of developer control of a timeshare resort is the Horseshoe Resort in Ontario. Long-time owners of RTU leases vs. new developer with an agenda. Here's a recent news report:

http://www.simcoe.com/community/barrieinnisfil/article/998799

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With all due respect, it appears that this particular facility was apparently RTU lease based right from the outset. Accordingly, no purchaser ever actually "owned" their week(s). A place like this really never had any chance (or possibility) of ever becoming "owner controlled", since the only actual "owners" are the invisible developer / property owners behind the scenes. Larcenous increases in fees could reasonably have been expected (even predicted) in any such situation.

Nonetheless, this example still clearly reinforces the point that without owner control, there are only foxes (...but no chickens) administering the henhouse affairs and their priority is the health and well being of the foxes (...not the chickens).

Comparing tangerines to oranges

theo said:

With all due respect, it appears that this particular facility was apparently RTU lease based right from the outset. Accordingly, no purchaser ever actually "owned" their week(s). A place like this really never had any chance (or possibility) of ever becoming "owner controlled", since the only actual "owners" are the invisible developer / property owners behind the scenes. Larcenous increases in fees could reasonably have been expected (even predicted) in any such situation.

Nonetheless, this example still clearly reinforces the point that without owner control, there are only foxes (...but no chickens) administering the henhouse affairs and their priority is the health and well being of the foxes (...not the chickens).

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You're right, RTU is just another flavour of "lack of owner control." When all is said and done, lack of owner control, in whatever flavour, has the potential for disaster.

foreverloves said:

I love this also, as our resort does something similiar. We own Marriott and also at Royal Dunes in HHI. We love it. The resort has vigorously fought to maintain independence and control from Diamond Resorts (they are AFFILIATED in the sense that Diamond owners can book RD thru Diamond, but they are not RUN by them) and we get newsletters and lots of information about how our MF are used to improve the resort. There is a lot of owner loyalty there and the staff is so friendly. Anytime we've had a problem or question we get answers quickly. RD has a management company that acts as a consultant and helps collect MF but I can always call the resort and get things figured out. It is so much nicer and more personal than the Marriott we own - and I have to say, it's a beautiful resort that's close to on par with Marriott, for MF that are less than $800 per year, and that's in HHI for a 3 bedroom! There are pluses to owning a big name like Marriott in certain ways, but I am so fond of my Royal Dunes, and grateful to the Tugger who pointed me in the right direction there!!

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We stayed at Royal Dunes as part of our quest to get an independent management at one of our resorts. At that time it was SPM - I dont know if it still is - they were fighting to maintain control over (at the time Sunterra) Diamond as management. It was a nice resort, the management friendly and open. They were planning a major renovation at the time but without doing a model unit. We advised against that as we had recently one through moving ahead with a massive unit refurb based on sample patches that looked great. Unfortunately when we saw the full sized product it was terrible - and we had already bought it! (Based on the costly recommendations of the designer which we only later found out was owned/controlled by the developer! They declared bankruptcy a few months after the orde so we had no recourse)

We ended up having to redo it less than 3 years later so the "savings" from not doing an admittedly costly model (one of's cost far more) were less than zero. They poo poo'd our suggestion and, I heard, went ahead with the 1/3 of total units at the resort and HATED what they got. They too ended up redoing it. Lesson learned I hope. But they did manage to hang on to owner based control and that is a positive. Let Developers do what they do (build & sell units) and let the owners run the resort as best they can. Everyone should be happy.

We own at both independents and brand name resorts. The MF's at the independents are significantly lower than the brand name and the service is just as good if not better. The one thing I'd say about the brand names is that they are larger and nicer and offer better ameneties. However, a well run independent in a prime area where there is a shortage of TS's can be a real bargain.