• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Orlando Market Resale Report

BobSc

TUG Member
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
21
Reaction score
6
Points
213
Location
Florida
Here is a summary of a 47-page report on the timeshare resale market in Orlando that I recently published. Thought it might be of interest. Ranking is based on the median price ("typical price"), the number of resales annually, and the total dollar volume of resale transactions. Data is drawn from a database of more than 1 million timeshare sales transactions primarily across the U.S. of which over 100,000 are resales.

Orlando Timeshare Resales - Market Observations and Analysis

The Orlando market sees more than 7,400 timeshare resales annually and more than $57 million in resale volume from the Top 25 Orlando timeshare resorts.

Overall, the Orlando market has 90 timeshare resorts and they generate more than 10,500 resale transactions and $59 million in resale volume annually. Thus the Top 25 Orlando resorts comprise nearly 70% of the resale transactions and 98% of the dollar volume in the entire Orlando timeshare resale market.

With the exception of Worldgate Resort, all of the Top 25 Orlando resorts belong to a resort group or brand. Among the brands, Disney dominates the Orlando market, taking the top six spots on the list, eight of the top ten and eight of the Top 25.

Together the Disney resorts represent 3,203 resales (43% of the Top 25 and nearly 30% of the entire Orlando market) and more than $46 million in resale volume (81% of the Top 25 volume and 79% of the entire Orlando market resale volume).

Second is Marriott with five resorts in the Orlando Top 25 totaling 750 resales and $3.8 million in resale volume. Marriott’s Grande Vista resort clearly dominates the Orlando Marriott timeshare resales picture, alone accounting for 56% of all Orlando Marriott resale transactions and 60% of all Orlando Marriott resale volume.

Hilton and Westgate each have three resorts in the Orlando Top 25. Wyndham has two resorts and Diamond, Holiday Inn, and Vacation Village each have one resort on the list.

Other Observations

A number of resort groups have one or more locations in Orlando, but none ranked in the Top 25. This includes Bluegreen Vacation Club, Exploria Resorts, Festiva, Legacy Vacation Club, Vistana, and Vacation Resorts International.

In terms of the sheer number of resale transactions occurring annually, Disney Saratoga Springs at 1,021 and Vacation Village at Parkway at 857 stand above all other resorts in the Orlando market.

When it comes to Typical Price, Disney’s Bay Lake Towers tops the list at $17,600 followed by Disney’s Villas at Grand Floridian at $16,000.

Total resale dollar volume leaders are Disney’s Saratoga Springs at $13.3 million followed by Disney’s Bay Lake Towers at $8.8 million.

Orlando Top 25

1. Disney's Saratoga Springs Resort & Spa
2. Disney's Bay Lake Tower at Disney's Contemporary Resort
3. Disney's Animal Kingdom Villas
4. Disney's Old Key West Resort
5. Disney's Boardwalk Villas
6. Disney's Beach Club Villas
7. Marriott's Grande Vista
8. Villas at Disney's Wilderness Lodge
9. Marriott's Cypress Harbour
10. The Villas at Disney's Grand Floridian Resort & Spa
11. Hilton Grand Vacations Club at Seaworld International Center
12. Hilton Grand Vacations Club at Tuscany Village
13. Marriott's Harbour Lake
14. Marriott's Lakeshore Reserve
15. Worldgate Resort
16. Parc Soleil By Hilton Grand Vacations Club
17. Holiday Inn Club Vacations at Orange Lake Resort West Village
18. Vacation Village at Parkway
19. Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort
20. Westgate Vacation Villas
21. Marriott's Sabal Palms
22. Wyndham Star Island Resort and Club
23. Mystic Dunes Resort & Golf Club (Diamone Resorts)
24. Westgate Town Center
25. Westgate Lakes Resort and Spa
 
Last edited by a moderator:

silentg

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
6,185
Reaction score
3,260
Points
649
Location
Central Florida
Resorts Owned
Fitzpatrick's Castle Holiday Homes,
Enchanted Isle.
Here is a summary of a 47-page report on the timeshare resale market in Orlando that I recently published. Thought it might be of interest. Ranking is based on the median price ("typical price"), the number of resales annually, and the total dollar volume of resale transactions. Data is drawn from a database of more than 1 million timeshare sales transactions primarily across the U.S. of which over 100,000 are resales.

Orlando Timeshare Resales - Market Observations and Analysis

The Orlando market sees more than 7,400 timeshare resales annually and more than $57 million in resale volume from the Top 25 Orlando timeshare resorts.

Overall, the Orlando market has 90 timeshare resorts and they generate more than 10,500 resale transactions and $59 million in resale volume annually. Thus the Top 25 Orlando resorts comprise nearly 70% of the resale transactions and 98% of the dollar volume in the entire Orlando timeshare resale market.

With the exception of Worldgate Resort, all of the Top 25 Orlando resorts belong to a resort group or brand. Among the brands, Disney dominates the Orlando market, taking the top six spots on the list, eight of the top ten and eight of the Top 25.

Together the Disney resorts represent 3,203 resales (43% of the Top 25 and nearly 30% of the entire Orlando market) and more than $46 million in resale volume (81% of the Top 25 volume and 79% of the entire Orlando market resale volume).

Second is Marriott with five resorts in the Orlando Top 25 totaling 750 resales and $3.8 million in resale volume. Marriott’s Grande Vista resort clearly dominates the Orlando Marriott timeshare resales picture, alone accounting for 56% of all Orlando Marriott resale transactions and 60% of all Orlando Marriott resale volume.

Hilton and Westgate each have three resorts in the Orlando Top 25. Wyndham has two resorts and Diamond, Holiday Inn, and Vacation Village each have one resort on the list.

Other Observations

A number of resort groups have one or more locations in Orlando, but none ranked in the Top 25. This includes Bluegreen Vacation Club, Exploria Resorts, Festiva, Legacy Vacation Club, Vistana, and Vacation Resorts International.

In terms of the sheer number of resale transactions occurring annually, Disney Saratoga Springs at 1,021 and Vacation Village at Parkway at 857 stand above all other resorts in the Orlando market.

When it comes to Typical Price, Disney’s Bay Lake Towers tops the list at $17,600 followed by Disney’s Villas at Grand Floridian at $16,000.

Total resale dollar volume leaders are Disney’s Saratoga Springs at $13.3 million followed by Disney’s Bay Lake Towers at $8.8 million.

Orlando Top 25

1. Disney's Saratoga Springs Resort & Spa
2. Disney's Bay Lake Tower at Disney's Contemporary Resort
3. Disney's Animal Kingdom Villas
4. Disney's Old Key West Resort
5. Disney's Boardwalk Villas
6. Disney's Beach Club Villas
7. Marriott's Grande Vista
8. Villas at Disney's Wilderness Lodge
9. Marriott's Cypress Harbour
10. The Villas at Disney's Grand Floridian Resort & Spa
11. Hilton Grand Vacations Club at Seaworld International Center
12. Hilton Grand Vacations Club at Tuscany Village
13. Marriott's Harbour Lake
14. Marriott's Lakeshore Reserve
15. Worldgate Resort
16. Parc Soleil By Hilton Grand Vacations Club
17. Holiday Inn Club Vacations at Orange Lake Resort West Village
18. Vacation Village at Parkway
19. Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort
20. Westgate Vacation Villas
21. Marriott's Sabal Palms
22. Wyndham Star Island Resort and Club
23. Mystic Dunes Resort & Golf Club (Diamone Resorts)
24. Westgate Town Center
25. Westgate Lakes Resort and Spa
Thank you I find this very informative. One of my timeshares ranked #17
Silentg
 
Last edited by a moderator:

AwayWeGo

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
15,687
Reaction score
1,630
Points
699
Location
McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.
Resorts Owned
Grandview At Las Vegas

[triennial - points]
My Former 1 & Only Timeshare Is Ranked #18.

One of my timeshares ranked #17
Yeh -- but the ranking is not based on niceness or plushness or quality or features or amenities or desirability or any of those subjective things we experience when we're on timeshare vacations.

In that report, ranking is all about dollars & cents -- median resale price ("typical price"), the number of resales annually, & total dollar volume of resale transactions.

In other words, because it's a measure of timeshare people putting their money where their mouths are, this is a cold, hard look at actual timeshare values right there in the timeshare hub of the world.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 

SmithOp

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
7,610
Reaction score
3,403
Points
499
Location
Huntington Beach, CA
Resorts Owned
HGVC King's Land 2BR Premier 23.040K Points.
Here is a summary of a 47-page report on the timeshare resale market in Orlando that I recently published. Thought it might be of interest. Ranking is based on the median price ("typical price"), the number of resales annually, and the total dollar volume of resale transactions. Data is drawn from a database of more than 1 million timeshare sales transactions primarily across the U.S. of which over 100,000 are resales.


This is the data I find interesting in your report, about 10% of timeshare sales are resale, or 90% are developer sales! I wonder if your data includes all the $1 eBay sales or free ones given away here on TUG.



Sent from my iPad Mini 4 using Tapatalk
 

BobSc

TUG Member
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
21
Reaction score
6
Points
213
Location
Florida
I wonder if your data includes all the $1 eBay sales or free ones given away here on TUG.

That's a great question. Our goal is to give an idea of the transaction volume and the typical price. To do that we focus on actual resales, in other words, not listings and not sales by developers or to developers.

Most of our data comes from land records - local county deeds. We do try to take online auction sales into account. However we don't include any of the transactions from here on TUG.

If a deed is filed, we know that an ownership transfer took place. With online auctions, since they are not binding on the buyer and seller, we can't be sure the sale actually took place, and if a sale does take place, at most resorts a deed would be filed anyway and so technically it's duplicate sales data. However, since, as you mention, many of the sales are at low dollar amounts, they almost certainly get filed as $10 sales on the deed. Many resorts have tons of these $10 filings and the online prices help give some useful pricing signal information about what may be really going on with those $10 deeds even if they increase the sales count somewhat.

There are actually a bunch of things we ignore, including transfers between family members when we can identify them, deedbacks, HOA sales, foreclosures - basically we try to exclude anything that is not from one owner to another owner. It's not 100% and we know we don't have every transaction out there but overall we think we have a pretty good representation of what's happening in the marketplace at more than 1,400 resorts.
 

whitewater

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2016
Messages
565
Reaction score
166
Points
153
Location
Somewhere in the mid-west
Resorts Owned
Club Wyndham Access
Pueblo Bonito Sunset Beach (1Br, 2Br)
Pueblo Bonito Sunset Beach - Monte Cristo Estates
This is the data I find interesting in your report, about 10% of timeshare sales are resale, or 90% are developer sales!

What amazes me is that 90% of people still by developer! This just blows my mind. We purchased our first timeshare while on vacation at Bonnet Creek. We liked it so much that we fell in love. We did however purchase resale at a fraction of the original purchase price. $70k vs. $3k or 4.2% or the orginal price.

I say thank you retail buyers for giving me and everyone else a chance to save 95.8%.

PLEASE KEEP IT UP.

Ok - I'm just kidding I really feel sorry for people who have not found TUG.
 

VegasBella

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Messages
3,307
Reaction score
1,017
Points
398
Location
Vegas
Resorts Owned
Carlsbad Inn
Avenue Plaza
Riviera Beach & Spa
Aquamarine Villas
That's a great question. Our goal is to give an idea of the transaction volume and the typical price. To do that we focus on actual resales, in other words, not listings and not sales by developers or to developers.

Most of our data comes from land records - local county deeds. We do try to take online auction sales into account. However we don't include any of the transactions from here on TUG.

If a deed is filed, we know that an ownership transfer took place. With online auctions, since they are not binding on the buyer and seller, we can't be sure the sale actually took place, and if a sale does take place, at most resorts a deed would be filed anyway and so technically it's duplicate sales data. However, since, as you mention, many of the sales are at low dollar amounts, they almost certainly get filed as $10 sales on the deed. Many resorts have tons of these $10 filings and the online prices help give some useful pricing signal information about what may be really going on with those $10 deeds even if they increase the sales count somewhat.

There are actually a bunch of things we ignore, including transfers between family members when we can identify them, deedbacks, HOA sales, foreclosures - basically we try to exclude anything that is not from one owner to another owner. It's not 100% and we know we don't have every transaction out there but overall we think we have a pretty good representation of what's happening in the marketplace at more than 1,400 resorts.

This is interesting.

Why ignore HOA sales though? Are they typically below market value?
Also, you ssay you don't include title transfers that occur as a result of foreclosure but do you include a sale of a foreclosed unit? If not, why not? What percentage are foreclosures? (If you know and have the info handy)

What percentage of the total would you say are the $10 and below sales?

Also, how would one acquire your report and read the entire thing?
 

littlestar

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Messages
2,647
Reaction score
367
Points
468
Location
Midwest
Resorts Owned
Disney Vacation Club, Marriott & Wyndham pts
Wow. Disney's Saratoga at the top of the list. Disney point contracts could range from 25 points on up. It would be interesting to know the average size of those Disney point contracts.
 

bnoble

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
11,634
Reaction score
5,369
Points
798
Location
The People's Republic of Ann Arbor
Most likely it is at the top of the DVC set because it is the largest DVC resort---so, the largest number of deeds changing hands each year. Its resale price per point is a little lower than some others, but if that ranking is total volume, then it's not hard to see how SSR is where it is.
 

BobSc

TUG Member
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
21
Reaction score
6
Points
213
Location
Florida
This is interesting.

Why ignore HOA sales though? Are they typically below market value?
Also, you ssay you don't include title transfers that occur as a result of foreclosure but do you include a sale of a foreclosed unit? If not, why not? What percentage are foreclosures? (If you know and have the info handy)

What percentage of the total would you say are the $10 and below sales?

Also, how would one acquire your report and read the entire thing?


We're trying to give a picture of what typical owner-to-owner resale transactions look like. As an owner can you count on the HOA buying back your week at an acceptable price? Probably not. HOAs don't typically get their inventory by buying from an owner the way you or I would.

They are more likely to acquire weeks via deedback or foreclosure. The same is true of developers who are taking deedbacks or foreclosures. In this respect we lump together HOAs as "developers" (along with other corporate entities) and exclude their sales.

Certainly it's a judgement call and in our judgement readily identifiable transactions with an individual owner on each side of the transaction are the best and most representative to use. Now if the HOA is selling in an online auction we might pick it up that way but not through land records. If the sale occurs at the developer's internal resale broker and they brokered the sale and recorded the individual owners on each side of the transaction then we would include it.

We have made special studies of resorts from time to time (e.g. Manhattan Club) that break out the various categories of sales and in those cases we might look separately at Developer Sales, Buybacks/Deedbacks/Foreclosures (we lump 'em together because it's hard to tell them apart in land records without practically doing an exhaustive historical title search on every deed), HOA Acquisitions and Sales, Bulk Buyers and Sellers, and Resales.

As to foreclosures in particular, this category alone is fraught with complexity. if the developer forecloses on a mortgage, it seems for tax purposes they are required to record the deed transaction back to them at a very large amount at or near either the original developer sale or perhaps they use the remaining balance on the mortgage (and who would let a mortgage with only a balance of a few dollars go into foreclosure so usually the balance would be high). I haven't drilled into all the ins and outs of foreclosure valuation. But in any case whatever the requirements it appears to create a transaction with an unrealistically high value for a "resale."

Foreclosure sales are another bizarre situation. That high value claimed for tax purposes apparently now becomes a credit that the developer can use to automatically trump the bid of any other foreclosure bidder at auction and take back the week. So foreclosure "sales" values would again not be comparable to a transaction between one owner and another. Certainly, theoretically at least, there are bargains to be had by buyers at foreclosure auction sales at least at certain times at certain resorts but we almost always exclude sales with a corporate entity on either side of the transaction so in that way alone we exclude them. Again it's not 100% and some minimal number may be included in our data from time to time.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

BobSc

TUG Member
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
21
Reaction score
6
Points
213
Location
Florida
Most likely it is at the top of the DVC set because it is the largest DVC resort---so, the largest number of deeds changing hands each year. Its resale price per point is a little lower than some others, but if that ranking is total volume, then it's not hard to see how SSR is where it is.

Saratoga Springs is an interesting beast. It is not only at the top of DVC, it's at the top of everything in our database - over 1400 resorts.

It has a tremendous number of resales. That may be as you say because it has so many condos and thus so many owners. (Grande Vista is similar in this regard.)

Clearly there is a tremendous amount of demand for the resort - lots of buyers. What's interesting to me, though, is the flip side. Because these are resales, for every buyer there must be a seller.

So yes there are lots of buyers but why then are there so many sellers?
 

mj2vacation

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
482
Reaction score
56
Points
338
Location
New Jersey
Saratoga Springs is an interesting beast. It is not only at the top of DVC, it's at the top of everything in our database - over 1400 resorts.

It has a tremendous number of resales. That may be as you say because it has so many condos and thus so many owners. (Grande Vista is similar in this regard.)

Clearly there is a tremendous amount of demand for the resort - lots of buyers. What's interesting to me, though, is the flip side. Because these are resales, for every buyer there must be a seller.

So yes there are lots of buyers but why then are there so many sellers?
Unlike a Marriott resort, a deed at a DVC resort can be as little as 25 points, essentially a two night stay in a studio per year. Marriott would, at least prior to point sales, have to be for a week, at minimum every other year.

So a DVC member who bought 300 points at SSR as 6 50 point contracts would show as 6 transfers or sales, especially as they could be sold by one seller to 6 buyers. Some owners at SSR sell to get points at one of the monorail resorts. Some sell as they outgrow Disney. We sold 800 points to help pay for a business. Since we had 8 100 point contracts at a few resorts, we sold to 8 individual owners. Made a really nice profit on all of them, especially BLT and Grand Cal.

If it was a Marriott point sale, it would not show as an Orlando sale. It is a trust sale. So even if the points originated from Grande Vista, I do not believe that a transfer would be recorded at the Orange County courthouse showing a transfer at GV.
 

bnoble

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
11,634
Reaction score
5,369
Points
798
Location
The People's Republic of Ann Arbor
So yes there are lots of buyers but why then are there so many sellers?
At any point in time, some fraction of timeshare owners at any resort are looking to sell. Maybe they are going through a divorce, or a rough patch financially, or their kids are grown and their travel plans have changed, or they're getting to an age when travel has become difficult. Or, maybe they are just tired of Disney.

SSR has 828 2BR equivalents (more than half of which lock off) and almost 100 3BRs. It's *huge*. So, even if the "looking to sell" percentage is only, say, 5%, that's still a lot of owners.
 

Weimaraner

TUG Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2006
Messages
1,475
Reaction score
23
Points
398
Location
Michigan
I don't own any Orlando timeshares but visit frequently. I wish Marriott resorts held their value as well as DVC. Thought there was some protection since MVCI offers ROFR refusal but they let some ridiculous prices pass through the approval process. I hear of some DVC owners who say they make a profit at resale. Is it because there is such high demand for the resorts because of visits to Disney World? I know people will travel the globe just to come to Orlando to see Disney World so people love it. I've stayed in a couple DVC resorts - and while I like the bus/luggage transport and food plans - I found the rooms a little small and in need of some maintenance or renovation compared to the other big name Orlando resorts (Marriott, Hilton, Wyndham). It's interesting that I'm reading a book now about Disney and it said that they turned to Marriott first to build their hotels but decided to go off on their own.
 

dundey

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2005
Messages
382
Reaction score
8
Points
378
Location
NJ
Resorts Owned
DVC - BLT & WLV, Cliff Club, Bolton Valley, Morritt's, Sudwala
I don't own any Orlando timeshares but visit frequently. I wish Marriott resorts held their value as well as DVC. Thought there was some protection since MVCI offers ROFR refusal but they let some ridiculous prices pass through the approval process. I hear of some DVC owners who say they make a profit at resale. Is it because there is such high demand for the resorts because of visits to Disney World? I know people will travel the globe just to come to Orlando to see Disney World so people love it. I've stayed in a couple DVC resorts - and while I like the bus/luggage transport and food plans - I found the rooms a little small and in need of some maintenance or renovation compared to the other big name Orlando resorts (Marriott, Hilton, Wyndham). It's interesting that I'm reading a book now about Disney and it said that they turned to Marriott first to build their hotels but decided to go off on their own.

I agree on room size, Marriott and Hilton have great big spaces. To get anything close to that at Disney you would need to spend a ton of points. However, I do not agree with you on "need of maint" I've stayed at many of the Disney properties (own at 2 DVC resorts) and they have always been top notch.
 

Cyberc

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
2,094
Reaction score
643
Points
223
Location
Denmark
I don't own any Orlando timeshares but visit frequently. I wish Marriott resorts held their value as well as DVC. Thought there was some protection since MVCI offers ROFR refusal but they let some ridiculous prices pass through the approval process. I hear of some DVC owners who say they make a profit at resale. Is it because there is such high demand for the resorts because of visits to Disney World? I know people will travel the globe just to come to Orlando to see Disney World so people love it. I've stayed in a couple DVC resorts - and while I like the bus/luggage transport and food plans - I found the rooms a little small and in need of some maintenance or renovation compared to the other big name Orlando resorts (Marriott, Hilton, Wyndham). It's interesting that I'm reading a book now about Disney and it said that they turned to Marriott first to build their hotels but decided to go off on their own.

Hi
True some owners make a profit on resale. but it depends when they bought and if they bought direct or through resale.

Those that bought direct many years ago, when the prices was lower, they could make a profit now. Those that bought resale during the latest recession could also make a profit now.

Remember most owners dont buy DVC to make a profit, they buy for the love of disney and to save money on future vacations staying at a deluxe resort over a value or moderate - Mostly because of the latter.

Mariott & Hilton also has ROFR, dont know how often Mariott exercise it, but hilton does every now and then. As an Hilton owner I could have hoped that they did it more often than they do - or at least more often that I hear about.
 
Top