How to tell if resort is at tipping point

Some States just say "No"

Tia said:

What state has the law re providing an owners list?

Right now a few or us at my one resort are trying to get our management company to either assist with a mailing or provide a mailing list for our annual election in Oct. They are going to consult the current board, .... want to guess what we think the reply will be?

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And some states, Florida being a prime example, prohibit distribution of the owners list to owners (or anyone else except for an extremely controlled set of users/reasons). You CAN see it any time you want - during normal business hours of the resort - but you cannot copy it or get a copy even if you pay. This is to prevent misuse by marketers or even by owners "with agenda's" (Gee, we have never seen that here have we?). Overall I tend to think it is a good rule but it can make things tough for legitimate owners with legitimate issues to get word out. But it can be done as there are provisions on how those things get handled when needed.

Thank you all for the info. !

timeos2 said:

And some states, Florida being a prime example, prohibit distribution of the owners list to owners (or anyone else except for an extremely controlled set of users/reasons). You CAN see it any time you want - during normal business hours of the resort - but you cannot copy it or get a copy even if you pay. This is to prevent misuse by marketers or even by owners "with agenda's" (Gee, we have never seen that here have we?). Overall I tend to think it is a good rule but it can make things tough for legitimate owners with legitimate issues to get word out. But it can be done as there are provisions on how those things get handled when needed.

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The odds of misuse by owners is a whole lot less than the odds of misuse by a developer, management, or an entrenched board majority to ride roughshod over the owners. This is nothing but an ''incumbents protection law'' and that is undoubtedly who got it enacted.

I am a strong advocate of homeowner democracy in HOA, and you simply cannot have democracy without access by all to the voter list. The list of owners is the voter list, just like in a regular election. That is the proper analogy. Anyone can go down to the board of elections and get a copy of that for elections for public office. Can you imagine if Florida suddenly denied candidates access to the lists of registered voters? Yet this is exactly what these authoritarians are doing for timeshare elections. Shame on them. I would never buy a timeshare in a state that frogstrangled timeshare HOA democracy in that way.

As far as ''procedures'' on how things ''get handled'', this undoubtedly involves things that make challenging any incumbent group much more cumbersome and expensive. The challenges to incumbents within HOA's that I am aware of involved low budget campaigns which relied on volunteers to address and stuff envelopes. If you are required, for example, to use a third party professional mail house, the cost is going to go up a lot and the time element likely as well. All of this smothere HOA democracy and that is undoubtedly its intent.

The resort where I served on the board had a standing policy of homeowners lists where we provided them on gummed labels for any homeowner. We were not afraid of communication among our owners. We encouraged it. We could have complied with state corporate law by simply giving it to them in list format so that they would have more work to send out a mailing, but that would not have encouraged communication. We did make them pay our actual cost (nominal) to produce the list and sign a notarized statement that they were aware of state corporate law that prohibited them from passing the list on to others or to use it themselves for commercial purposes and the penalties therefore.

I can just image who the likely suspects behind this Florida law would be, and Wastegate is right at the top of the list.

ctyatty said:

So would you suggest focus on the own-to-use owners first? That is the catagory I am in. But, I don't want to spend thousands on mailings, maybe a few hundred to gauge the interest.

I don't suppose the resort would like to see flyers distributed on the resort. Anyone tried that?

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In terms of raising money to fund the effort, that is the most productive group, but when you mail for the proxy fight, you need to mail everybody.

Check with a Lawyer First

timeos2 said:

And some states, Florida being a prime example, prohibit distribution of the owners list to owners (or anyone else except for an extremely controlled set of users/reasons). You CAN see it any time you want - during normal business hours of the resort - but you cannot copy it or get a copy even if you pay. This is to prevent misuse by marketers or even by owners "with agenda's" (Gee, we have never seen that here have we?). Overall I tend to think it is a good rule but it can make things tough for legitimate owners with legitimate issues to get word out. But it can be done as there are provisions on how those things get handled when needed.

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You'll want to check with a lawyer about the relevant privacy laws before releasing owner information. It's easy to get offside the new laws in many jurisdictions. There can be civil and criminal penalties.

I have an agenda, keep expenses down and quality up.

There is a poison pill in the original bylaws, by-laws say we need 2/3 vote of all owners to change management contract. Of course, first we change the by-laws. Symbolic of the exploitation IMHO.

Maple_Leaf said:

You'll want to check with a lawyer about the relevant privacy laws before releasing owner information. It's easy to get offside the new laws in many jurisdictions. There can be civil and criminal penalties.

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The law that is going to prevail is the most specific, which are the corporate governance laws, which give access to the lists to members. If you cannot get the voter list, you do not have democracy. It is as simple as that. There are penalties for violation of corporate governance laws.

ctyatty said:

So would you suggest focus on the own-to-use owners first? That is the catagory I am in. But, I don't want to spend thousands on mailings, maybe a few hundred to gauge the interest.

I don't suppose the resort would like to see flyers distributed on the resort. Anyone tried that?

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Postcards are cheaper and easier. Why not send a postcard with a website address and your email address and phone number? The website would have your concerns outlined, and maybe start a Yahoo group, so owners would have a place to vent.

timeos2 said:

And some states, Florida being a prime example, prohibit distribution of the owners list to owners (or anyone else except for an extremely controlled set of users/reasons). You CAN see it any time you want - during normal business hours of the resort - but you cannot copy it or get a copy even if you pay.

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Anyone tried one of those hand held personal scanners or even a good camera?

What about a sitting HOA board that gave the okay for the management company to handle an election mailing, but now it seems the sitting board wants to approve the message before it can be mailed?? Think we are back to square 1.

timeos2 said:

And some states, Florida being a prime example, prohibit distribution of the owners list to owners (or anyone else except for an extremely controlled set of users/reasons). You CAN see it any time you want - during normal business hours of the resort - but you cannot copy it or get a copy even if you pay. This is to prevent misuse by marketers or even by owners "with agenda's" (Gee, we have never seen that here have we?). Overall I tend to think it is a good rule but it can make things tough for legitimate owners with legitimate issues to get word out. But it can be done as there are provisions on how those things get handled when needed.

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previousl posted: "And some states, Florida being a prime example, prohibit distribution of the owners list to owners (or anyone else except for an extremely controlled set of users/reasons). You CAN see it any time you want - during normal business hours of the resort - but you cannot copy it or get a copy even if you pay."


I have have reviewed Florida codes 718 and 719 and this refusal to let someone copy the owner's roster, appears to be in conflict with the purpose and intent to making these records available other members. Sounds to me like maybe a management company is blowing smoke.