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Just Got The Royal Screw From Rci

geekette

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Global Demand is just a silly statement, unless you are counting all the American's living in other countries, most other countries are nothing more then 'Travel Destinations' or 'tourist traps'

???

Inflammatory. Ridiculous.

Doesn't compute. You dig visiting domestic tourist traps (Disney and Williamsburg) yet denigrate "most other countries" that you now call tourist traps.

:ponder:
 

RBERR1

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My question is how is this any difference than the skim that occurs in Marriott's new internal system. They charge an annual fee and an initiation fee and the pts you get is always less than the pts it will cost to trade back in Now there is no exchange fee on top in the Marriott system but maybe RCI is taking a page out of Marriott's book.
 

bnoble

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how is this any difference than the skim that occurs in Marriott's new internal system.
As I understand it, Marriott always skims. RCI sometimes taketh, and sometimes giveth. (My weeks get a few TPU more than it takes to exchange back in, on average.)
 

e.bram

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Ride:
If any place is a tourist trap it is Orlando and Williamsburg(exist only for tourists). Paris, Firenze, Roma etc. exist on their own.
ps. Like being in Disneyland only it is real not artificial. when I travel I see many "tourists" with kids of all ages introducing them to the origin of Western Civilization not made up contrivances.
 

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. . . and do not forget RCI's massive network of rental outlets to non-members, as well.

I think your analysis is correct. However, I think you demonstrated how RCI can make money on the different TPU's for depositing and exchanging. If there are 206522 less exchanges RCI has 206522 weeks in their pool doing nothing. Since they now own the weeks and nobody exchanged for them, they can put them on sale as last calls or possibly they put them on sale at a higher rate as extra vacations. They are starting a big sale for tomorrow for extra vacations.

I know that Hilton rents out using open season, which is the same as last calls, the nights that are not booked to members. They also rent out nights to non members but I am not sure if those nights are nights that are not booked or nights that are available since the timeshare owner is maintenance fee delinquent.
 

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The problem in many businesses is leadership that wants to goose short term profits to benefit bonuses and the like, but with no regard to the consequences on long term sustainability. Cendant came in, took a look at the RCI model built by Mrs. deHahn, the founder of the company, which was based on long term sustainability and synergies between RCI, HOA's, and members, and decided to turn that on its head, and focus instead on goosing short term profits. Eventually, they will reep what they have sown, and I would not want to be a shareholder on their company. Their accounting scandal is just a prelude to their mismanagement of the exchange program of RCI.


Nonsense. When it comes to a for-profit company, there is no such thing as "excessive greed." The entire raison d'être of any such company is to make more money.

The only constraint is that you have to make money without breaking the law. That's it. What's more, for a publicly-held company, the company is failing its fiduciary duty to its shareholders if it is not making every dollar it can.

That said, in the course of making money, most companies also deliver good value to some of the people with whom they do business. It is a customer's job to figure out if they are getting good value, or if they should take our business elsewhere. Companies that successfully convince their customers that they are getting good value, while making money themselves, succeed. Those that don't fail.

It's been said upthread, but RCI's primary customer is not the individual timeshare owner. RCI's primary customer is the developer. Developers bring affiliation agreements. Affiliation agreements bring members. Members bring their exchange business with them, mostly through inertia, but also possibly with intent.

Our goal as informed consumers is simple: does RCI (or, indeed, any exchange company) deliver value, or not? When it does, make use of their services. When it doesn't, don't.

As an added twist, most of us have more than one way to "access" RCI. For example, I have a regular Weeks account, and the Wyndham portal---both paid for out of my annual Wyndham fees. They offer vastly different value propositions. The regular Weeks account does better for "cheap" weeks with low TPU values. The Wydnham portal over-averages; it does very poorly for "cheap" weeks, but better for "expensive" ones. As an example, I recently confirmed a week at Disney's BCV in a 1BR for Food & Wine. That's a primo reservation for those not allergic to the Mouse, one that Disney owners fight for. And, in Weeks, it's ridiculously over-priced at 41 TPU. However, through the Wyndham RCI portal, my total cost was less than $560. After subtracting out the exchange fee and the DVC extortion fee, you'd need a $/TPU ratio of less than $6.75 to beat that in Weeks.

Over time, I expect those sorts of market inefficiencies to continue to disappear. When they do, I'll stop using RCI. But, until they do, I plan on making hay, and I don't care if RCI is "evil" or "greedy". I'm in it for my family's vacations.
 

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For example If they see a big demand for weeks at a particular resort they can raise the tpu required for an exchange to a level where the demand falls off. or if they have a glut of weeks that no one is asking for, they can reduce the TPU required, until those weeks jump off the shelf

So how does RCI make more money by setting tpu for an exchange twice as high as the tpu given for the deposit?...They guarantee that no one will want to exchange for this week and so they can rent it for more

But if they raise the TPU required because it is a high demand area so that fewer can exchange into it, that would then allow them to rent the deposited high value weeks.
 

Tamaradarann

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Children and vacations

Believe it or not, I was a young child once. And my parents never took us to Williamsburg nor Disney. We went to the Carolinas (Myrtle Beach a lot), amusement parks throughout the country (tho never Disney's), went west, saw mountains, etc. We drove all over. I don't ever recall there even being discussion of W'burg nor Mousetown.

as an adult, I still have no interest in Williamsburg nor Disney. While MANY desire those places, plenty of us never had interest and never will.

I also disagree that the majority of Americans have young children. I don't even think that the majority of people "with kids" have young children.

I agree the majority of people don't have young children. Even if you count people with young grandchildren and great grand children. However, you missed out on going to Disney and Williamsburg as a child. If you have any of the above take the opportunity. We went to Disney with young Grandchildren last year and will be going to Williamsburg this June.
 

Ridewithme38

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I agree the majority of people don't have young children. Even if you count people with young grandchildren and great grand children.

Nearly one-in-five American women ends her childbearing years without having borne a child
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1642/more-women-without-children

Thats 20% of american's who haven't had a young child, don't forget guys, everyone that has a child recently had a 'young' child...I'd say 80% is definitely a majority
 

Tamaradarann

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http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1642/more-women-without-children

Thats 20% of american's who haven't had a young child, don't forget guys, everyone that has a child recently had a 'young' child...I'd say 80% is definitely a majority

It is true that the majority of people at one time in their lives have young children. However, this is timeshare users group and the issue that is being discussed is that in this time of their lives do the timeshare owners have young children that they are vacationing with and, therefore, would want to go to a location that would be attractive and suitable to young children such as Disney and Williamsburg.
 

Tamaradarann

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Hilton doesn't skim points

My question is how is this any difference than the skim that occurs in Marriott's new internal system. They charge an annual fee and an initiation fee and the pts you get is always less than the pts it will cost to trade back in Now there is no exchange fee on top in the Marriott system but maybe RCI is taking a page out of Marriott's book.

I don't know that Marriott system so I can't comment on it. However, the Hilton system doesn't skim points. You get the assigned points for the unit and season that you purchase and can use your points to book that unit and season or any other same size unit and season anywhere in the Hilton Grand Vacation System. Also, if you trade up or down in size or season it is uniform for the same size and season everywhere in the Hilton Grand Vacation System.

The RCI point system doesn't skim points either. While it works the same way as Hilton with respect to trading back in to the resort you purchased, the RCI points does have differences in points by resort and season but it doesn't change like the stock market it is published in the annually published book.
 

Mel

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It is true that the majority of people at one time in their lives have young children. However, this is timeshare users group and the issue that is being discussed is that in this time of their lives do the timeshare owners have young children that they are vacationing with and, therefore, would want to go to a location that would be attractive and suitable to young children such as Disney and Williamsburg.
I wouldn't argue about whether the majority of timeshare owners have young children, but I also wouldn't argue that those two destinations are most popular among those with young children either.

To be honest, Williamsburg isn't the greatest destination with young children, as they won't get much out of the historic sites, and won't like walking very much. The demand for Williamsburg is driven by the fact that it is a driveable distance for a large percentage of the US population, and it has something to offer all ages.

Disney is similarly popular among a large set of demographics for similar reasons. While it is not a drive-to destination for as many people, it is easy to fly in, and cheap from many parts of the country. For the colder area, it is a nice break in the middle of winter also. And just like Williamsburg, they offer something for everyone. I know many families that vacation there regularly who don't have young children, some who don't have any. There are plenty of things to do in the are other than visit the mouse, but the mouse also draws many adults - some of whom look forward to a trip to WDW without any children, so they can enjoy the attractions more suited to the adults.
 

Tamaradarann

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Young Children

I wouldn't argue about whether the majority of timeshare owners have young children, but I also wouldn't argue that those two destinations are most popular among those with young children either.

To be honest, Williamsburg isn't the greatest destination with young children, as they won't get much out of the historic sites, and won't like walking very much. The demand for Williamsburg is driven by the fact that it is a driveable distance for a large percentage of the US population, and it has something to offer all ages.

Disney is similarly popular among a large set of demographics for similar reasons. While it is not a drive-to destination for as many people, it is easy to fly in, and cheap from many parts of the country. For the colder area, it is a nice break in the middle of winter also. And just like Williamsburg, they offer something for everyone. I know many families that vacation there regularly who don't have young children, some who don't have any. There are plenty of things to do in the are other than visit the mouse, but the mouse also draws many adults - some of whom look forward to a trip to WDW without any children, so they can enjoy the attractions more suited to the adults.

I think we may need to define young children. My Grandchildren are 7 and 9 and I consider them young children. I would not consider teenagers young children. I wouldn't bring children under 6 to Williamsburg. My grandchildren flipped over Disney last year at 6 and 8. We will be intermixing Colonial Williamsburg with Busch Gardens and the Water Park to keep the trip educational mixed with kid fun. The 9 year old will be studying American History in 5 grade this fall and will be going on a field trip to Gettsburg so this should be about right for his age and his Brother is always striving to be up there with big Brother.
 

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What RCI really needs is some true transparency on how its numbers racket is established. They already provide similar transparency on how award status is decided, providing both the formula and the underlying numbers. They should do that for trading power numbers, too.

Right now it is at least easy to tell if your resort / week is overpointed, underpointed, or valued properly at RCI. Keep track of the values they give for deposit versus those they charge for an exchange at the same point in time. If RCI consistently gives more for a deposit than they charge for an exchange, then you resort is overpointed. In that case, you should probably stick with RCI as you are getting the gold mine while others are getting the shaft, to paraphrase the old country music song. If they consistently give less for a deposit than they charge for an exchange, then your resort is underpointed and you should look for a different exchange company. If it usually runs at similar numbers for both sides of the transaction, then they are treating your resort fairly.
 
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RCI is just GREEDY-PLAIN AND SIMPLE. THE SCAM OF HOLDING OUR DEPOSITS AND SELLING THEM FOR PROFIT INSTEAD OF BEING AVAILABLE FOR OWNERS-MEMBERS , NOW, AFTER GETTING BUSTED THEY CHANGE THE GAME AND COME UP WITH ANOTHER SCAM ---THIS ONE. I AM DONE WITH RCI
 
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WinniWoman

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Just by virtue of the cost of exchanging - membership fees, exchange fees and insurance for the exchanges - you should look for another exchange company or not exchange at all. These fees can now be equal or up to half your maintenance fees! Go where you own or rent extra vacations from other owners.
 

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Count me as a HAPPY, HAPPY customer of RCI these days. Great vacations, great costs, great availalbility, and clear disclosure to know what's worth doing or not doing.

If it's not working out like that for someone, they should vote with their dollars and either leave RCI or change what they own. For the majority, though, the advent of TPU's opened up a whole new world where we all have a shot the great trades only dreamed of five years ago... and at a fraction of the cost from years gone by if you do a little work.

Hurah! :clap:

Change is hated by many, but cherished by those who look to take advantage of it. Mix up your portfolio if needed and get your TPU costs down below $15. You'll stop crying the blues and start singing the praises of RCI and what all you can exchange into. Come on folks, it's hard to be unhappy with $500 to $600 a week in a nice condo vacation home.

To the OP, unless you are specifically looking to trade back in to your deposited week, it's completely irrelevant how much that trade would cost. Remember, your deposit can ONLY go up in value (not will but can) and the exchange rate is likely to only come down. It's not a static equation and the real outcome isn't known until later. Thank goodness our deposits don't get reduced when the ultimate exchange rate ends up bringing LESS than your deposit value.
 
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WinniWoman

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Count me as a HAPPY, HAPPY customer of RCI these days. Great vacations, great costs, great availalbility, and clear disclosure to know what's worth doing or not doing.

If it's not working out like that for someone, they should vote with their dollars and either leave RCI or change what they own. For the majority, though, the advent of TPU's opened up a whole new world where we all have a shot the great trades only dreamed of five years ago... and at a fraction of the cost from years gone by if you do a little work.

Hurah! :clap:

Change is hated by many, but cherished by those who look to take advantage of it. Mix up your portfolio if needed and get your TPU costs down below $15. You'll stop crying the blues and start singing the praises of RCI and what all you can exchange into. Come on folks, it's hard to be unhappy with $500 to $600 a week in a nice condo vacation home.

To the OP, unless you are specifically looking to trade back in to your deposited week, it's completely irrelevant how much that trade would cost. Remember, your deposit can ONLY go up in value (not will but can) and the exchange rate is likely to only come down. It's not a static equation and the real outcome isn't known until later. Thank goodness our deposits don't get reduced when the ultimate exchange rate ends up bringing LESS than your deposit value.

Even before TPU's, I always got very good exchanges through RCI. But, with all the fees going up and already paying amost $750.00 per week in maintenance fees at my home resort, never mind if I need to pay for airfare, I feel it's not worth the hassle of trying to obtain the week/place you want. Sure, it is still a good deal even if you are paying $1000 for the exchanged week, but I can rent a week for that - even less- and not be tied into paying yearly membership fees, insurance fees, exchange fees, and the headache of trying to work the system, and, in addition, just go to my home resort for the scheduled weeks, since I have to pay the maintenance fees anyway. The years when I can't afford to go an extra week, or just don't want to go elsewhere, I don't. If I couldn't go to my home resort for some reason, I would try to rent it or give the week to a family member to use that year. I don't see the value in RCI as much anymore, but agree it might be a good option for others depending on their situation.
 

MichaelColey

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Change is hated by many, but cherished by those who look to take advantage of it. Mix up your portfolio if needed and get your TPU costs down below $15. You'll stop crying the blues and start singing the praises of RCI and what all you can exchange into. Come on folks, it's hard to be unhappy with $500 to $600 a week in a nice condo vacation home.
$500 to $600? That's only for the cream of the crop. I'm currently in a 2BR Presidential unit at Silverleaf's Villages that cost me less than $250 for a week. (I used 5 TPU that cost me $10/TPU plus the $189 exchange fee).
 
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vckempson

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$500 to $600? That's only for the cream of the crop. I'm currently in a 2BR Presidential unit at Silverleaf's Villages that cost me less than $250 for a week. (I used 5 TPU that cost me $10/TPU plus the $189 exchange fee).

IYou and I get unusually good trades, because our TPU cost is way below most. My trades usually cost me no more than $350 including exchange fee and TPU cost.

I was trying to price it based on $15/TPU (25 TPU trade), which should be easy for anyone to aquire with a little bit of effort. Start getting trades for under 10 TPU's and get your cost down to under $10/TPU and you really getting the great deals you and I have become accustomed to.
 

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IYou and I get unusually good trades, because our TPU cost is way below most. My trades usually cost me no more than $350 including exchange fee and TPU cost.

I was trying to price it based on $15/TPU (25 TPU trade), which should be easy for anyone to aquire with a little bit of effort. Start getting trades for under 10 TPU's and get your cost down to under $10/TPU and you really getting the great deals you and I have become accustomed to.

Great trades can also be had in other systems - I just traded a week with $285 worth of MF for a week at Wyndham Beach Walk with VRI*ity.

$89 exchange fee + $285 = $374 all in - not bad for a week in Waikiki's #2 rated timeshare (after Hilton).

The good trades are out there - keep looking.
 

MichaelColey

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Great trades can also be had in other systems - I just traded a week with $285 worth of MF for a week at Wyndham Beach Walk with VRI*ity.

$89 exchange fee + $285 = $374 all in - not bad for a week in Waikiki's #2 rated timeshare (after Hilton).
I guess I got the royal screw from RCI. The week I have booked in a 2BR at Hilton Hawaiian Village Lagoon Tower cost me $519 (33 TPU at $10/each plus $189 exchange fee).
 

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As I said earlier, for those who are overpointed in the new scheme, it makes good sense to stay with RCI. You got the gold mine while others got the shaft.

As to the ''majority'', I note that a poll on another site showed an almost even split between those who had equal or better trading power from Points Lite and those who had lost trading power. Given that timeshare boards are dominated by those with better weeks, and few of us here own blue weeks (I once did but that was many years ago), and those off season weeks got shafted more than most, I think it is clear that a majority is worse off under Points Lite. The stories I heard from resort managers of the deluge of off season owners who exchanged calling in and wanting to bail out after Points Lite was announced indicates there was a lot of dissatisfaction at that level.

As to changing ownerships, given the fickleness of RCI in recent years, it is only the gamblers who should roll those dice. It may work for a while, but it will likely come up snake eyes at some point, and that might be sooner than you think. Of course, as I have predicted before, I think the next big fruit basket turnover in RCI's exchange system will come when they merge Points and Points Lite. It just does not make sense to run two paralell points systems. I suspect we are likely 2 - 5 years from that happening.

It is better to change exchange companies, use where you own, or just get out of timesharing and rent from either owners or even the Evil Empire itself. While I have no further use for RCI as an exchange company, I do find them useful to rent through from time to time. YMMV.


Count me as a HAPPY, HAPPY customer of RCI these days. Great vacations, great costs, great availalbility, and clear disclosure to know what's worth doing or not doing.

If it's not working out like that for someone, they should vote with their dollars and either leave RCI or change what they own. For the majority, though, the advent of TPU's opened up a whole new world where we all have a shot the great trades only dreamed of five years ago... and at a fraction of the cost from years gone by if you do a little work.

Hurah! :clap:

Change is hated by many, but cherished by those who look to take advantage of it. Mix up your portfolio if needed and get your TPU costs down below $15. You'll stop crying the blues and start singing the praises of RCI and what all you can exchange into. Come on folks, it's hard to be unhappy with $500 to $600 a week in a nice condo vacation home.

To the OP, unless you are specifically looking to trade back in to your deposited week, it's completely irrelevant how much that trade would cost. Remember, your deposit can ONLY go up in value (not will but can) and the exchange rate is likely to only come down. It's not a static equation and the real outcome isn't known until later. Thank goodness our deposits don't get reduced when the ultimate exchange rate ends up bringing LESS than your deposit value.
 

vckempson

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Great trades can also be had in other systems - I just traded a week with $285 worth of MF for a week at Wyndham Beach Walk with VRI*ity.

$89 exchange fee + $285 = $374 all in - not bad for a week in Waikiki's #2 rated timeshare (after Hilton).

The good trades are out there - keep looking.

That's a heck of a trade. Keep it up. What week/resort were you able to pull that off with?
 
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