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WKORV ? & Uppgrading Island view to OceanView?

rudy

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Let me apologize if this is a repeat...

I am a Marriott owner and understand their system well. I have been looking for Maui weeks and see several WKORV units on e-bay at really cheap prices. I read the Starwood rules sticky but still have questions.



Questions for WKORV:
**************************************
1) My question is if you own island view is there a period you can upgrade to Ocean View using star options? I am confused as to why star options for WKORV are 148100 ...there does not appear to be a way to specify island or ocean view. What are the chances of this happening during winter months of late Jan to late March?

2) My understanding is star options cannot be carried over to the next year, but one can borrow from the next year star options if fees are pre-paid. What are the chances of buying an every year at WKORV and trying to use star options to go for 3 weeks (in a 1 bedroom) every-other year? What options do you have as a re-sale buyer for the left-over star options?

3) I believe the low ebay prices of WKORV are driven by the enormous maintenance fees ... why are these fees so much greater than Marriott fees on Maui? ( there's about a $1000 a year difference!)

4) WkORV is a mandatory resort so do re-sale buyers have any limitations within using star options? Other limitations I should be aware of?

5) I also cannot figure out how II works with Starwood ..differences between mandatory and non-mandatory re-sale owners?

6) I have traded into Marriott's new Napilli Villas at Maui Ocean Club... how does the Marriott New villas (MM1) 1 bedroom and studio unit compare to the Westin WKORV and WKORV-N? I have seen the exterior of WKORV so I know the differences due to location.

***************************


Thanks for your insight!

Best Regards,

Ken
 

DeniseM

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Questions for WKORV:
**************************************
1) My question is if you own island view is there a period you can upgrade to Ocean View using star options?

No - there is no provisions to use Staroptions for upgrades. At this point it is completely at the discretion of the resort and Elite Owner have first priority for upgrades.

I am confused as to why star options for WKORV are 148100 ...there does not appear to be a way to specify island or ocean view. What are the chances of this happening during winter months of late Jan to late March?

When you purchase a Starwood timeshare the view is specified on the deed and that is the view that you are entitled to, as long as you reserve 8-12 mos. out, and there is still availability.

2) My understanding is star options cannot be carried over to the next year, but one can borrow from the next year star options if fees are pre-paid. What are the chances of buying an every year at WKORV and trying to use star options to go for 3 weeks (in a 1 bedroom) every-other year? What options do you have as a re-sale buyer for the left-over star options?

When you borrow Staroptions from future years, you lose your owners priority - borrowed Staroptions can only be used a 3 mos. out - so no guarantees. Left over Staroptions can be used at your home resort or another Starwood resort at 3 mos. out. Reservation Chart

3) I believe the low ebay prices of WKORV are driven by the enormous maintenance fees ... why are these fees so much greater than Marriott fees on Maui? ( there's about a $1000 a year difference!)

That's what we would like to know! My MF have increased $1,000 a week since we bought!

4) WkORV is a mandatory resort so do re-sale buyers have any limitations within using star options? Other limitations I should be aware of?

Resale owners are treated the same, except you can't convert to Starpoints - which is not a good value anyway.

5) I also cannot figure out how II works with Starwood ..differences between mandatory and non-mandatory re-sale owners?

There is no difference any more - all owners deposit and exchange the same. However, I would NEVER deposit WKORV - kind of like trading your Mercedes for a Chevy. If you want a Starwood exchanger pick up a cheap voluntary trader with MUCH lower MF's!

6) I have traded into Marriott's new Napilli Villas at Maui Ocean Club... how does the Marriott New villas (MM1) 1 bedroom and studio unit compare to the Westin WKORV and WKORV-N? I have seen the exterior of WKORV so I know the differences due to location.

I will post a link to the floorplan.

Starwood has some problems that you should be aware of before you buy:

Escalating MF's
Rules changes that do not benefit owners
Loss of II depositing rights
Poor communication with owners​

Right now there is a 2 bdm. unit for rent in the TUG Marketplace for $1,450 - my MF is $2,300 - don't buy - rent!
 
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jerseygirl

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Questions for WKORV:
**************************************
1) My question is if you own island view is there a period you can upgrade to Ocean View using star options? I am confused as to why star options for WKORV are 148100 ...there does not appear to be a way to specify island or ocean view.

Owners are guaranteed their view categories, based on availability for the specific week requested, if booked between 8 and 12 months in advance. There are 3 view categories: Oceanfront, Oceanview and Islandview (which includes the dreaded highway view at the original phase, referred to as WKORV on these boards). All views carry the same number of SOs (stupid, yes, but that's the way it is). I don't recall ever seeing an instance of someone not being able to get their first choice week if the owner calls exactly 12-months in advance (i.e., Starwood doesn't have the 13-month rule for multiple week owners that Marriott has). A Maui owner will hopefully come along and provide the priority process for requests (e.g., high floor, building X), but generally speaking, it's first come, first serve within view category -- with preferences given to elite owners. At 8 months, all SVN members can book available weeks, with no view guarantee; I believe this includes WKORV/N owners -- they will not be guaranteed their view category if they book after the 8-month window.

2) My understanding is star options cannot be carried over to the next year, but one can borrow from the next year star options if fees are pre-paid. What are the chances of buying an every year at WKORV and trying to use star options to go for 3 weeks (in a 1 bedroom) every-other year? What options do you have as a re-sale buyer for the left-over star options?

You can't borrow until the 90-day window, so I would imagine it could be risky (especially once the economy improves) to assume you'd be able to get a second week during prime season through borrowing.

StarOptions work the same for developer and resale buyers at mandatory resorts. If you decided just to use your 1-BR portion in Maui, you'd have the SOs from the studio side "leftover" to use at another Starwood resort, in the same calendar year, by booking available resorts at the 8-month mark.

3) I believe the low ebay prices of WKORV are driven by the enormous maintenance fees ... why are these fees so much greater than Marriott fees on Maui? ( there's about a $1000 a year difference!)

I'm sure you're 90% correct about the impact of maintenance fees on prices. However, don't discount the fact that Starwood has made a ton of rookie mistakes as a management team, e.g., all view categories carry same SO values; the low SO/SP valuations for the extremely popular summer season at popular resorts such as Harborside and Westin St. John -- this leads to unrealistic trading expectations and ultimately owner dissatisfaction; owner dissatifaction reflected on the internet with regard to escalating maintenance fees, excessive special assessments, policies such as mandatory/voluntary, the II process, removing elite benefits, etc.

As far as the reason for the difference --your guess/theory is as good as ours. My theory is that's a combination of poor management and corporate greed.

4) WkORV is a mandatory resort so do re-sale buyers have any limitations within using star options? Other limitations I should be aware of?

Again, no limitations on SOs, but you won't be eligible to convert to StarPoints (hotel points) and the SOs don't count toward elite status unless the week is "retro'd," which involves paying full price for a developer unit -- there's plenty of information about that process here on TUG if you use the search feature.

5) I also cannot figure out how II works with Starwood ..differences between mandatory and non-mandatory re-sale owners?

With Marriott (and 99.9% of all float timeshares), the owner books a week within his/her season and can then deposit that specific week to II. The better the week, the better the trading power (within about 4-5 bands of trading power). With Starwood, the owner doesn't book a week -- Starwood assigns a "trading unit" that has trading power represented by the average of all weeks within the season. makes bulk deposits and periodically "balances the books" with II. This is the same for all -- SVN, non-SVN, mandatory, voluntary. Some owners of non-SVN weeks are upset about this new procedure because SVN members (including resale buyers of mandatory weeks) assign all external trading administration to Starwood as a condition of purchase .... but resale buyers of voluntary resorts have never delegated this power to Starwood.

Edited to add -- Also, Starwood has no "request first" capability anymore (a really stupid move from an owner perspective) even though they pretend they do. You cannot hold a reservation at your home resort and also place an ongoing request with II. Very bad policy.

6) I have traded into Marriott's new Napilli Villas at Maui Ocean Club... how does the Marriott New villas (MM1) 1 bedroom and studio unit compare to the Westin WKORV and WKORV-N? I have seen the exterior of WKORV so I know the differences due to location.

Sorry, can't comment on this one.
 
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jerseygirl

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Ooops -- DeniseM beat me to it again! I must be a really slow typist. :)
 

DeniseM

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I think we're a great tag team, actually! :hi:
 

rudy

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Thanks and a few follow-up ?'s

Denise and Jersey Girl:

Thanks for your thorough responses.

A few follow-on questions:

Inside the 8 months period, can an owner of an island view unit use star options to trade back in to their home resort and request an ocean view room? ALos at WKORV is there inventory inside the 8 months out that would make this possible?

Denise,....I agree it is better to rent today with rental being so much less than MF's. However, if the MF's have driven owners to sell cheap..it might be worth buying a unit that sold for $60K-$80K at $5-10K with the hope the economy will recover. Once it recovers re-sales won't be so cheap. A $50K difference in upfront costs pays many tears of maintenance fees...especially if the goal is to go to Maui and stay beachfront in a quality resort such as WKORV or Marriott Napilli and Lahaina villas.

How long is Starwood guaranteed to manage WKORV .. after so many years can the HOA takeover?
 

DeniseM

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Denise and Jersey Girl:

Thanks for your thorough responses.

A few follow-on questions:

Inside the 8 months period, can an owner of an island view unit use star options to trade back in to their home resort and request an ocean view room?

You could request it - but I would not expect it. Starwood reserves these kinds of perks for Elite Owners.

ALos at WKORV is there inventory inside the 8 months out that would make this possible?

During school holidays - no
Off-season - yes (especially Sept. - mid-Nov.)
But again - you will have no priority for an upgrade

Denise,....I agree it is better to rent today with rental being so much less than MF's. However, if the MF's have driven owners to sell cheap..it might be worth buying a unit that sold for $60K-$80K at $5-10K with the hope the economy will recover. Once it recovers re-sales won't be so cheap. A $50K difference in upfront costs pays many tears of maintenance fees...especially if the goal is to go to Maui and stay beachfront in a quality resort such as WKORV or Marriott Napilli and Lahaina villas.

Yes - but as a management company Starwood has a lot of issues that make owning with them problematic. I have owned at WKORV from the beginning and I would never buy there again. When I bought in 2002 the MF was $1,300 and now it's $2,300 - in less than 10 years! BTW - off season, it's an easy II exchange with a cheap voluntary trader. See the Sightings Board for the Bulk Space banking from this week.

How long is Starwood guaranteed to manage WKORV .. after so many years can the HOA takeover?

When hell freezes over..... ;)
 
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rudy

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Thanks Again

Denise,

Thanks for your insight... sounds like I better stay away from Starwood until they get their act together.

It's hard to believe a large company can't manage a timeshare resort that has essentially 100% capacity with maintenance fees paid but can manage luxury hotels where capacity fluctuates by high service must always be available...go figure?

Good luck and hope for the owner's sake they get a grip on the MF's.
 

DeniseM

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Rudy - it's a cash cow and with owners who paid $45K and up retail, they've got us where they want us! :annoyed:
 

rudy

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How do they expect to sell ?

With all the bad PR and unhappy owners around, how do they ever expect to sell the remaining villas at WKORV-N?

Don't they have plenty of inventory at there other new properties... Cancun, et al?

I would expect that kind of attitude (bleed the owners with high MF's cause their stuck) for a small company, but for a large company wanting to expand I just don't get it!
 

DeniseM

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I believe that WKORV and WKORVN are sold out, except for occasional inventory that the developer takes back on an upgrade.

Cancun has TONS of unsold inventory!
 

sjlola

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3) I believe the low ebay prices of WKORV are driven by the enormous maintenance fees ... why are these fees so much greater than Marriott fees on Maui? ( there's about a $1000 a year difference!)



My husband attended the KORV and KORV-N Master Association and BOD meetings this morning. The General Manager, Gregg Lundberg, said he recently received a call from the Marriott asking if our property taxes had recently increased since they had just received notification of the increase from 7% for each $1,000 in valuation to 14%. So this sounds like a Maui County screw-up in jus recently notifying Marriott od the tax increase. Sorry, but your fees will be increasing too, possibly with a special assessment for back taxes.
 

Troopers

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My husband attended the KORV and KORV-N Master Association and BOD meetings this morning. The General Manager, Gregg Lundberg, said he recently received a call from the Marriott asking if our property taxes had recently increased since they had just received notification of the increase from 7% for each $1,000 in valuation to 14%. So this sounds like a Maui County screw-up in jus recently notifying Marriott od the tax increase. Sorry, but your fees will be increasing too, possibly with a special assessment for back taxes.

Interesting. I would be very if surprised Marriott wasn't aware of it.

Check out this thread as it's been discussed over and over and over again.

Btw, welcome to Tug!
 
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