Help: Marriott owner with Hilton Usage ?

I only own Marriott's and am familiar with their rules of usage and II trading. However, I am intrigued by the flexibility that the Hilton points based system offers. Are there any owners of both MVCI and HGVC that can help me understand the plusses and minuss of the Hilton vs Marriott timeshare usage, trading , and re-sale.

What I think I understand (and like) about Hilton that has my interest:
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1. Hilton maintains home resort inventory in that you do not reserve your home resort week if you want to travel to another Hilton or other season in your home resort. (Therefore platinum owners will use the prime platinum weeks.. unlike Marriott where owners book prime weeks for II trading power.)

2. Hilton provides flexibility to reserve a villa for as few as 3 days.

3. Optional night stays within a 'flextime' can be purchased dirt cheap.

4. Hilton allows an owner to reserve at any other HGVC resort within a 9 month window.




What I do not understand about Hilton:
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1. If you own a 2 bedroom platinum unit at a resort with studio,1, 2, and 3 bedroom villas, can you reserve at 12 months your home resort for 2 consecutive weeks in a 1 bedroom followed by a studio during platinum season(assuming you have enough points)? This would be analogous to using a lock-off feature in the Marriot tsystem.. or do you have to wait to within 9 months to reserve anything but your 2 bedroom during platinum season?

2. In Marriott it is best to own where you travel most... However in Hilton it is not clear...For example, let's pick Hawaii as your travel destination. If Hiltons are readily available 9 months ahead, then why pay the large maintenance fees and purchase price of Hawaii when you buy Orlando or Vegas at 50-70% price per point?

3. Is there really availabilty at Hiltons 9 months out even during prime season at prime resorts (Hawaii in summer, skiing resorts during Pres week,etc)?

4. Are Hilton re-sales similar to Mariott in that you cannot exchange your HGVC club points for Hilton Honors points? What else do you miss-out on if you purchase Hilton re-sale vs buying from the developer?

5. What is the deal with the 'affilliate' resorts? Is there a difference in the manner you use, trade, or reserve your unit if you own an original HGVC resort vesus an affiliate? Do affilliates gcome and go adn Hiltons discretion or are there agreements for Hilton to manange for a 30 yr or whatever time period?

6. I understand you can borrow points from the following year if you need a few to get what you wnatthis year...but can you bank points for future trips? In other words Marriot's you either use it, etrade for MR points, or deposit it to II for a 3 yr use period (12 months prior and 24 months after your oreserved date)...what are the options for Hilton?

7. I believe Hilton utilizes ROFR ..is their a Hilton database analogous to the Marriott ROFR database?



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Sorry for the long post...just looking for answers from fellow Marriott owners who speak a language I understand.....

this should be in the hilton board

rudy said:

1. If you own a 2 bedroom platinum unit at a resort with studio,1, 2, and 3 bedroom villas, can you reserve at 12 months your home resort for 2 consecutive weeks in a 1 bedroom followed by a studio during platinum season(assuming you have enough points)? This would be analogous to using a lock-off feature in the Marriot tsystem.. or do you have to wait to within 9 months to reserve anything but your 2 bedroom during platinum season?
At 12 months, you can reserve only what you own at your home resort. If it's a two bedroom and you want two weeks instead, you have to wait until nine months out.

2. In Marriott it is best to own where you travel most... However in Hilton it is not clear...For example, let's pick Hawaii as your travel destination. If Hiltons are readily available 9 months ahead, then why pay the large maintenance fees and purchase price of Hawaii when you buy Orlando or Vegas at 50-70% price per point?
Points are points with Hilton. I've had no trouble booking Hawaii with my Orlando and Vegas points.

3. Is there really availabilty at Hiltons 9 months out even during prime season at prime resorts (Hawaii in summer, skiing resorts during Pres week,etc)?
Not sure since I don't travel during prime seasons.

4. Are Hilton re-sales similar to Mariott in that you cannot exchange your HGVC club points for Hilton Honors points? What else do you miss-out on if you purchase Hilton re-sale vs buying from the developer?
You can exchange club points for Honors points with resales. The only disadvantage to buying resale is not getting elite benefits (primarily permanent gold Honors status and lower booking fees), which most of us don't think are worth the developer's price.

5. What is the deal with the 'affilliate' resorts? Is there a difference in the manner you use, trade, or reserve your unit if you own an original HGVC resort vesus an affiliate? Do affilliates gcome and go adn Hiltons discretion or are there agreements for Hilton to manange for a 30 yr or whatever time period?
There's no guarantee that affiliates will be affiliates forever, although they seem to have staying power. Some of them are booked and traded like HGVC-built resorts, but you have to pay a fee to join HGVC. Some of the affiliates can't be booked on the Web site, so you have to call CS.

6. I understand you can borrow points from the following year if you need a few to get what you wnatthis year...but can you bank points for future trips? In other words Marriot's you either use it, etrade for MR points, or deposit it to II for a 3 yr use period (12 months prior and 24 months after your oreserved date)...what are the options for Hilton?
Yes, you can borrow from next year. You can also bank current year to next year before the current year begins but have to use those points in the next year. You can bank them with RCI for two years though. Or you can trade them for Honors points at 1 for 25, which I think is a poor use of them.

7. I believe Hilton utilizes ROFR ..is their a Hilton database analogous to the Marriott ROFR database?
Hilton does have ROFR but seems to use it only on 7000-points packages and above. I don't know anything about a database.

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Personally, I like the flexibility of points.

rudy said:

I only own Marriott's and am familiar with their rules of usage and II trading. However, I am intrigued by the flexibility that the Hilton points based system offers. Are there any owners of both MVCI and HGVC that can help me understand the plusses and minuss of the Hilton vs Marriott timeshare usage, trading , and re-sale.

What I think I understand (and like) about Hilton that has my interest:
*********************************************
1. Hilton maintains home resort inventory in that you do not reserve your home resort week if you want to travel to another Hilton or other season in your home resort. (Therefore platinum owners will use the prime platinum weeks.. unlike Marriott where owners book prime weeks for II trading power.)

2. Hilton provides flexibility to reserve a villa for as few as 3 days.

3. Optional night stays within a 'flextime' can be purchased dirt cheap.

4. Hilton allows an owner to reserve at any other HGVC resort within a 9 month window.




What I do not understand about Hilton:
******************************

1. If you own a 2 bedroom platinum unit at a resort with studio,1, 2, and 3 bedroom villas, can you reserve at 12 months your home resort for 2 consecutive weeks in a 1 bedroom followed by a studio during platinum season(assuming you have enough points)? This would be analogous to using a lock-off feature in the Marriot tsystem.. or do you have to wait to within 9 months to reserve anything but your 2 bedroom during platinum season?

2. In Marriott it is best to own where you travel most... However in Hilton it is not clear...For example, let's pick Hawaii as your travel destination. If Hiltons are readily available 9 months ahead, then why pay the large maintenance fees and purchase price of Hawaii when you buy Orlando or Vegas at 50-70% price per point?

3. Is there really availabilty at Hiltons 9 months out even during prime season at prime resorts (Hawaii in summer, skiing resorts during Pres week,etc)?

4. Are Hilton re-sales similar to Mariott in that you cannot exchange your HGVC club points for Hilton Honors points? What else do you miss-out on if you purchase Hilton re-sale vs buying from the developer?

5. What is the deal with the 'affilliate' resorts? Is there a difference in the manner you use, trade, or reserve your unit if you own an original HGVC resort vesus an affiliate? Do affilliates gcome and go adn Hiltons discretion or are there agreements for Hilton to manange for a 30 yr or whatever time period?

6. I understand you can borrow points from the following year if you need a few to get what you wnatthis year...but can you bank points for future trips? In other words Marriot's you either use it, etrade for MR points, or deposit it to II for a 3 yr use period (12 months prior and 24 months after your oreserved date)...what are the options for Hilton?

7. I believe Hilton utilizes ROFR ..is their a Hilton database analogous to the Marriott ROFR database?



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Sorry for the long post...just looking for answers from fellow Marriott owners who speak a language I understand.....

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We own both. The basic difference is that Marriott is a weeks based trading system (week for week) and Hilton is a points based reservation and trading system (points buy the exchange you want).

#1. Yes Hilton maintains the inventory. You do not reserve a specific week for exchange. All Hilton points are equal in value whether you own in Orlando, Vegas or Hawaii. As a result getting a 2 bedroom unit in Hawaii when your ownership is in Orlando is usually as easy as making that reservation at the club reservation window of 9 months.

#2. Yes. You can reserve partial weeks but, you must wait until the club reservation window of 9 months. At this point you may also reserve any size unit you want. However, during the home reservation window (home resort preference) you may only reserve a full week in your full unit. So if you have a 3 bedroom penthouse unit in Vegas you may only reserve a 3 bedroom penthouse unit during the home reserevation window. You can't use a partial week or only reserve part of your unit during the home reservation window.

#3 Yes depending on your defnation of dirt cheap and, it is based on availability. Since Hilton tends to over develope it's big three destinations or Orlando, Vegas and Hawaii, those locations aren't so tough. Most of the remainder of the resorts are affiliate resorts and most of those have very limited availability for Hilton owners. Even getting excachanges into the affiliate resorts can be difficult so getting flextime in those resorts can be even more difficult. Don't expect Hilton to have the availability that it appears they have on the surface unless you're traveling to the big three locations.

#4 Yes and that's Hilton's biggest advantage if you're wanting to get into Hawaii, Orlando or Vegas. At nine months points are points and it doesn't matter where you own so long as there is availability at the resort you want to stay at. This year we plan on using our Vegas points for a weeks stay in Hawaii. Unlike Marriott it usually isn't a problem getting a two bedroom unit. Most of what I see with Marriott are studio units and a few one bedrooms when I search online. With Hilton I see good availability of two bedrooms and one bedroom units. Most with full kitchens rather than partial kitchens.

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#1. No, you must reserve your full unit during the 9 to 12 month home resort window. You can not break up your unit and you can not reserve outside of your season. If you own a platinum 3 bedroom unit you must reserve a 3 bedroom platinum unit. You can't reserve a 2 bedroom unit and save the remainder of the points and you can not reserve a gold or silver season unit. You are stuck reserving EXACTLY what you own.

#2 Many people feel this way. I prefer to own in Vegas because, when we purchased, that's where we wanted to own. Fortunately, at least for now, Vegas is the cheapest as far as MF's are concerned. Keep in mind that owners of a resort will get to reserve first and that can limit inventory, especially during peak vacation weeks. As an exchanger you may still have to be flexible as to your check in day based on availability. If you want to travel to Hawaii every year and want to be treated like an owner at that resort (best unit locations) then it's best to own there. Keeping in mind what's already been explained in #1 above.

#3 Yes.

#4 No. The only thing you miss out on with Hilton is the ability to become Elite owners (14,000 points or more). IMO, not a big deal.

#5. There is no difference in reserving at the affiliates. However, all owners at the affiliates are not HGVC members. Only those that have elected to become owners and have paid the HGVC membership fee (I think it's $500). Thus, almost all of the affiliates have limited inventory. For all intents and purposes I don't include the affiliates as a real part of the Hilton family. IMO using affiliate resorts to pad their resort inventory is deceptive at best. I do not know what the management arrangements are with the affiliate resorts. I can say I haven't seen a lot of fluctuation with the affiliates since we've been owners which is about 6 years.

#6. You may rescue points to the next year. I've done that with my 2008 points and intend on using my 2008 points combined with my 2009 points to reserve a more expensive room (you can pay for the view) in Hawaii. The remainder of my 2009 points will be rescued into 2010. This is something new with HGVC in the last 2 years. You may also bank them with RCI or convert them to Hilton HHonors points. Keep in mind that you can trade for HHonors points every year with Hilton and not every other year as with most Marriott resorts.

#7. Most Hiltons utilize ROFR but some of the older resorts do not. For instance, HGVC FLamingo in Vegas does not have ROFR written into their contracts. There are two resellers that participate some here on TUG. I know Seth Nock is one of them. I forget who the other is. Both are very knowledable and can help you get the best deal.

As for my personal opinion, I own both but, I prefer Marriott. Marriott has the locations and the quality I like. I wouldn't give up my 7,000 HGVC points but I won't increase my ownership with Hilton either. Hilton is essentially in three locations, Orlando, Vegas and Hawaii. They do have a resort in New York and one in Miami Beach but neigther of those thrill me. Even most of the affiliate resorts are in Florida. If Hilton had been building like Marriott has done then they'd be impossible to beat and I'd own strictly Hilton but, that's not what they've done and apparently that's not in their plans. Hilton has announce in recent years that it's building a 3rd resort in Orlando and a 4th resort in Vegas.

THANKS for the thorough Answers

:whoopie: linsj and dougp26364::whoopie:

Thanks so much for your thorough response to my long list of questions.

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My take-aways from your responses are:

1. Buy resale ... only disadvantage is no elite status.


2. Not a good idea to exchange HGVC club points for Hilton Honors points...but better to forward unused HGVC club points to the next year.

3. Hawaii, Vegas, and Orlando are readily available at 9 months out.

4. Only reason to buy a Hiltion in HI is if you planned on using your exact purchased villa - size, view,and season - year after year.

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Given conclusions 1-4 above, why would anyone buy in Hawaii (resale or developer) given the higher prices and maintenance fees? Am I still missing something?

rudy said:

4. Only reason to buy a Hiltion in HI is if you planned on using your exact purchased villa - size, view,and season - year after year.

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That's my understanding.

rudy said:

:whoopie: linsj and dougp26364::whoopie:

Thanks so much for your thorough response to my long list of questions.

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My take-aways from your responses are:

1. Buy resale ... only disadvantage is no elite status.


2. Not a good idea to exchange HGVC club points for Hilton Honors points...but better to forward unused HGVC club points to the next year.

3. Hawaii, Vegas, and Orlando are readily available at 9 months out.

4. Only reason to buy a Hiltion in HI is if you planned on using your exact purchased villa - size, view,and season - year after year.

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Given conclusions 1-4 above, why would anyone buy in Hawaii (resale or developer) given the higher prices and maintenance fees? Am I still missing something?

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Nope, you are not missing anything. Buy where the yearly fees are cheapest. It is very hard for people to comprehend that points are points.

HGVC for Hilton HHonors points are about the same deal as with Marriott for Marriott Rewards points. If you're going oversea's where the cost per night for just a hotel room is in the $300 to $500 range (thanks in part to the very poor exchange rate right now), then it's not such a bad deal. If you're using them for hotel stays in the U.S. then it's not such a good deal.

We are using Hilton Honors points (hotel points) for a stay in Rome. I think it a great deal for me to use my TS points to get an expensive room in Europe. But in general trading your TS for hotel points is rarely a good deal.

gshipley said:

Nope, you are not missing anything. Buy where the yearly fees are cheapest. It is very hard for people to comprehend that points are points.

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So to maximize investment - where would you purchase if you want to take a trip to hawaii every 10 years? are the orlando units rentable to get a return on your MFs?

I understand that the HGVC units also trade into Marco Island/Sanibel/Captiva is this correct?

td0804 said:

So to maximize investment - where would you purchase if you want to take a trip to hawaii every 10 years? are the orlando units rentable to get a return on your MFs?
I understand that the HGVC units also trade into Marco Island/Sanibel/Captiva is this correct?

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With HGVC, you may be deeded a unit, but it is never /yours/ to rent, deposit or trade, since instead, you get points which allow you to reserve stays at any HGVC, affliliated, or even RCI property, subject to availability (as determined by hilton).

However, you do get a priority in reserving /a/ similar-size unit for your season at your home-resort. When you make a reservation, you can obtain a Guest Certficate for someone who you authorize to make use of your reservation.

Likewise, you do not trade anything to get into a SW Florida property, you merely use the points that you bought with your membership.

I agree with the responses posted here.

I only own one timeshare (SeaWorld Platinum 1 BR 4800 points) which I purchased resale after succumbing to attend a presentation invite from Hilton Honors and liking what I saw. I swore I would never own a timeshare. I found Tug at that time and did a lot of research and ended up buying. I joined recently to pay my dues (literally). I like the flexibility with the HGVC points, and the flexibility with the amount of nights I reserve.

- Points are really points. As stated, Hilton overbuilds in a few locations and it does not make a lot of difference where you own. And I maximum the few points I own by traveling offseason or exchanging thru RCI. My 1 BR Platinum week is worth a 2 BR red week thru RCI.
- Affiliate inventory is not that easy to get. It only becomes available when an owner give up his property. With HGVC, my unit becomes available 9 months out IF I do not reserve my "home" unit. And as stated, a home unit reservation must be my exact unit size at my home resort for a week during my specified season. This makes Hilton "built" inventory generally more accessible.
- HGVC has GREAT trading power with RCI. To some extent, they call the shots. I have been able to trade points into some great locations.
- Many will say that RCI trades using HGVC are expensive and that other traders are cheaper. I agree. However, I pay ONE maint fee per year and just figure out what I want to try that year. For me, this meets a lot of needs. I don't have that much time off or that much money. But I am getting to vacation like I have more money than I do !!
- You can easily borrow points from the next year, or save them. Saving is trickier. I cannot save any 2008 points now that it is 2008 - you have to stay a year ahead of the curve. But I can push 2009 points into 2010 before the end of 2008 (for a fee). And if I need a 2009 reservation, I can borrow from 2010 (free). If I push the 2009 points in early 2008, I cannot borrow from 2010 into 2008 - so you see why you wait until the END of the year but stay a "calendar" year ahead. Everything has a fee - reservations, pushing points, RCI nightly, RCI weekly - but I figure I have already recovered about half of my investment to buy the unit in the 3 years I have had it based on what I would have paid to stay where I did (see my itenerary below).
- The key is to plan WAY AHEAD. Offseason is cheaper, weeknight are half the points of weekends.

Here is what I have done with my purchase:

Bought late 2005 and was going to lose my 2005 points. So I put them into RCI for a search for a 2br week in Key West. This buys you 2 years.
2006 - 3 br Sunset Cove week with family, silver (half the points) (affiliate) (4100)
2006 - 3 nights We-Fr RCI nightly at Donatello studio (960)
2007 - 5 night bronze studio Sa - We Valdoro Breckenridge (affiliate), Mo - We 3br also with friends (840 + 900)
2007 - Galleon Key West 2br week with friends (2005 points - 4800)
2008 - 4 nights Mo - Th Tuscany HGVC Gold International drive 3br with family (2320)
2008 - week in Del Mar 1br RCI at Villa L'auBerge (3400)

So I leveraged 4 years of points across 3 years by banking the 2005 points. I can keep the same pace by borrowing a few years. Then I will have to slow down, or buy more points if I am able.

2 of the resorts (Del Mar and Key West) have one exchange in 4 year RCI rules. Not sure I would have pulled them with another timeshare

GTLINZ said:

- You can easily borrow points from the next year, or save them. Saving is trickier. I cannot save any 2008 points now that it is 2008 - you have to stay a year ahead of the curve. But I can push 2009 points into 2010 before the end of 2008 (for a fee).

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Just an update. As of last year, you can push your current year's points to next year. This is done at the end of the year and is called "rescuing" your points (for a fee, of course). Any rescued points are restricted in use, however -- they can only be used for HGVC property reservations. Not RCI or Club Intrawest, etc.

I have found that the best use, for me at least, is to be constantly borrowing points from a future year. That way, I don't have to be paying fees to bank my points forward.

BTW, I have been very satisfied w/ my HGVC purchase. We closed on our property in January, 2007. Just doing a cut and paste from the "history" page on my account, here are the reservations I have had in the last year and 3 months:

Mar 16, 2008 Hilton Grand Vacations Club at South Beach
Jan 31, 2008 Valdoro Mountain Lodge
Jan 19, 2008 Valdoro Mountain Lodge
Jan 09, 2008 Valdoro Mountain Lodge
Jan 04, 2008 Valdoro Mountain Lodge
Dec 25, 2007 Hilton Grand Vacations Club at the Flamingo
Dec 25, 2007 Hilton Grand Vacations Club at the Flamingo (two-2BR reservations)
Oct 13, 2007 Hilton Grand Vacations Club at SeaWorld International Center
Mar 16, 2007 Valdoro Mountain Lodge
Mar 03, 2007 Valdoro Mountain Lodge
Feb 17, 2007 Valdoro Mountain Lodge

Plus an RCI week exchange at Powhattan Plantation in Williamsburg in June, 2007.

Most of those Valdoro reservations were cash rentals through Open Season, and usually 2 nights. But being ~2 hour drive away, I could generally leave on a moment's notice.

Kurt

Bill4728 said:

We are using Hilton Honors points (hotel points) for a stay in Rome. I think it a great deal for me to use my TS points to get an expensive room in Europe. But in general trading your TS for hotel points is rarely a good deal.

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I am sure you will love the hotel!

I am trying to find a way to visit again before they become part of the Waldorf Astoria, which means much more points.

PigsDad said:

Most of those Valdoro reservations were cash rentals through Open Season, and usually 2 nights. But being ~2 hour drive away, I could generally leave on a moment's notice.

Kurt

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Way to go ! I am not close enough to a location to use open season that often, but we may start trying with Orlando...