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ROFR is back...for how long?

rudy

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Marriott just exercised ROFR on an Ocean Pointe Platinum. :bawl: I was shocked since they have several units at Oceana Palms a mile north and they are building the second tower..all potential trust properties.

Any other Tuggers experiencing ROFR?
 

tlwmkw

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Interesting to hear. I'm a little surprised too but I guess if they have a gap in the trust, or a buyer for a re-sale week then I guess they might want to pick up the week. How much was the sale price?

tlwmkw
 

rudy

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Got what I considered a great deal at $7300 ...but still surprised ROFR was exercised
 

m61376

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Hope you're luckier next time around. ROFR has always been quirky, even at its hey-day, so that even a lower price might pass next time around. Good luck in your search!
 

rudy

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Any ohers?

I agree ROFR has always been random... however it has been very rare since the NEW POINTS Program adn usually being exercised at older high demand loacation and seasons such as Hilton Head summer weeks. THis one does not make since given the OCEANA Palms property being mostly owned by Marriott as they build the 2nd tower and have not sold out the first tower.....

Another possible cause was brought up tlwmkw in the above response that maybe Marriott had a buyer...which could be possible... thought I believ they could have gotten one on the resale market for $10K adn sold for $38K anytime. Maybe I just had rotten timing or maybe Marriott has cash on hand to swoop up these good deals once again...

Makes me wonder if anyone else out there has had Marriott exercise ROFR recently?
 

GregT

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What was the view category that they ROFR'd?

Ocean Pointe is pretty lean in the Trust (only 467,000 points out of 87 million points -- maybe that's 100 weeks total for Ocean Pointe in the Trust?) so this is the kind of week I think they would ROFR to keep filling out the Trust.

I'd be very surprised if they ROFR'd TimberLodge and NCV, where the Trust is loaded (1000s of weeks).

Sorry to hear you missed it, but I hope you get the next one!

Best,

Greg
 

rudy

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Greg

View was Oceanside. There is only Oceanside and Oceanfront at Ocean Pointe.

I could understand them exercising ROFR if it wasn't for Oceana Palms about 1 mile north on the beach. Oceana Palms is building the 2nd tower so all of it could be included in the Trust.
 
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TheTimeTraveler

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Greg

View was Oceanside. There is only Oceanside and Oceanfront at Ocean Pointe.

I could understand them exercising ROFR if it wasn't for Oceana Palms about 1 mile north on the beach. Oceana Palms is building the 2nd tower so all of it could be included in the Trust.




Generally, Marriott won't exercise ROFR in a new Resort (Oceana Palms) as long as it is under construction, and plenty of weeks or points remain to be sold.

However, Ocean Pointe is not a new resort, and has long been sold out, so I can see them aggressively exercising ROFR in order to obtain inventory for resale or the points program.




.
 

timeos2

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Generally, Marriott won't exercise ROFR in a new Resort (Oceana Palms) as long as it is under construction, and plenty of weeks or points remain to be sold.

However, Ocean Pointe is not a new resort, and has long been sold out, so I can see them aggressively exercising ROFR in order to obtain inventory for resale or the points program.
.

The secret to ROFR is to avoid any resort/system that has it as it is no friend to an owner. If you choose to ignore that important advice and go ahead with a potential ownership of such a place then simply ignore the existence of ROFR AS A BUYER. It only hurts the seller to the sole benefit of the developer. Just make your low offers (for what you feel it is worth - NOT EVER what the artificially inflated ROFR number could be. IF you play that losers game you too will end up the loser) and eventually you'll get your ownership or you'll find a much better deal - either way you win. The seller only gets whatever low price he accepts if/when the developer decides to exercise the ROFR - they don't get a minimum or base price they simply get whatever low value you offered (plus costs to them) and you just move on to the next deal. Eventually (often first try) you'll get your deal. That is the only way to go with a ROFR place as otherwise you'll be the one stuck with a purchase price the market won't suppor and you'll take the loss on resale. Don't get suckered in.

Usually you'll find that ROFR resorts are also run by the Developer as management long after they should be gone and the resort /Association should be taken over by the real owners. If it is not that is strike two against owning there. Best to avoid both issues - ROFR and Developer management by looking for another resort.

ROFR and Developer management of resorts are problems you can easily avoid. Look elsewhere as there are literally hundreds of resort options many can be cheaper to own & can easily obtain this type of resort via trade or you can simply rent for less than you will spend to buy/own. No timeshare is worth much over $5K today - no matter where or what resort. While a few (VERY FEW) may get more than that in the long run you are better off renting vs taking on an excessive annual fee and a hefty purchase price. Eventually the resale price will get to $5K or less and then, if you still want it (you'll probably find you don't anymore) you can buy wisely. If it doesn't avoid it. Far too many great resorts out there for much less. It's a pure buyers market - make sure you use that to your advantage and don't get fooled into any ROFR nonsense.
 

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Another thought is seller remorse?? Are you sure that Marriott exercised ROFR or was the seller unhappy with the price and says Marriott exercised ROFR. Just something to think about. If it was an Ebay with no reserve, this could happen if Seller does not like the price the auction finished. Not saying that happened in this case, but it is something that is possible.

Keep trying, youo might find one a better price!!!
 

rudy

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rofr paperwork received

Yes I too thought seller was holding out for a better offer. . . So I had them send me Marriott 's letter indicating they were exercising their ROFR. It looked legit to me.
 

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The secret to ROFR is to avoid any resort/system that has it as it is no friend to an owner. If you choose to ignore that important advice and go ahead with a potential ownership of such a place then simply ignore the existence of ROFR AS A BUYER. It only hurts the seller to the sole benefit of the developer. Just make your low offers (for what you feel it is worth - NOT EVER what the artificially inflated ROFR number could be. IF you play that losers game you too will end up the loser) and eventually you'll get your ownership or you'll find a much better deal - either way you win. The seller only gets whatever low price he accepts if/when the developer decides to exercise the ROFR - they don't get a minimum or base price they simply get whatever low value you offered (plus costs to them) and you just move on to the next deal. Eventually (often first try) you'll get your deal. That is the only way to go with a ROFR place as otherwise you'll be the one stuck with a purchase price the market won't suppor and you'll take the loss on resale. Don't get suckered in.


Usually you'll find that ROFR resorts are also run by the Developer as management long after they should be gone and the resort /Association should be taken over by the real owners. If it is not that is strike two against owning there. Best to avoid both issues - ROFR and Developer management by looking for another resort.

ROFR and Developer management of resorts are problems you can easily avoid. Look elsewhere as there are literally hundreds of resort options many can be cheaper to own & can easily obtain this type of resort via trade or you can simply rent for less than you will spend to buy/own. No timeshare is worth much over $5K today - no matter where or what resort. While a few (VERY FEW) may get more than that in the long run you are better off renting vs taking on an excessive annual fee and a hefty purchase price. Eventually the resale price will get to $5K or less and then, if you still want it (you'll probably find you don't anymore) you can buy wisely. If it doesn't avoid it. Far too many great resorts out there for much less. It's a pure buyers market - make sure you use that to your advantage and don't get fooled into any ROFR nonsense.

John, while I generally believe there is much merit to your perspectives and many truthes to your often, and well articulated viewpoint, I disagree that for some, it is an, to paraphrase, easily avoided problem.
ROFR is something that seems to be in place at many of the higher end ( hotel associated) resorts. These happen to be the resorts where I prefer to stay. I like the amenities and flexiblitly and they work best for my travel style and personal needs. I agree that ROFR is not always in the seller's interest. I also agree that one should always ignore the presumed ROFR price and just pay what its worth to you. that applies to any purchase; you should never pay more due to some presumed influence on its value, but only its intrisic value to the purchaser. However, I cannot fully subscribe to the belief that it offers NO protection to the seller. These have been EXTREME times in these troubled economic environment and while you say that NO timeshare is worth more than $5k, that is inconsistent with the fact that, albeit, selectively, MArriot had chosen to exercise ROFR at 9K. This in fact provides some protection to a seller. Perhaps, if the seller unrealistically thought they could get 18K or pick a randomly inflated number, inappropriate to this market, but indeed, certain high demand, higher end, prime timeshares are infact still selling and even being ROFR'd at very high prices. No, it doesn't mean you will get your money back, but they just don't necessarily drop like the resorts without it, if you have the most prime weeks. no one ever claimed that ROFR was rock-solid-impervious-to-market-downturns-at-all-times protection.

i hesitate to print this and my intent is by no mean to dredge up this debate. it is not not one i reallty have time to debate or one that i feel i can sway yours ar anyone's mind who disagrees. i dont think the proof statement is really there either way, so it is actually a useless debate as far as I am concerned. Somehow, I am up late and this time, just wanted to voice my view.

Anyone is free to agree, or disagree. Its all good.
 
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BocaBoy

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Another possible cause was brought up tlwmkw in the above response that maybe Marriott had a buyer...which could be possible.
Marriott only sells weeks listed by owners. They get a 40% commission on such sales. They do not sell weeks on spec that they don't have and then go out and try to find the weeks. There is no chance that this is what happened here.
 

OldPantry

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The secret to ROFR is to avoid any resort/system that has it as it is no friend to an owner. If you choose to ignore that important advice and go ahead with a potential ownership of such a place then simply ignore the existence of ROFR AS A BUYER. It only hurts the seller to the sole benefit of the developer. Just make your low offers (for what you feel it is worth - NOT EVER what the artificially inflated ROFR number could be. IF you play that losers game you too will end up the loser) and eventually you'll get your ownership or you'll find a much better deal - either way you win. The seller only gets whatever low price he accepts if/when the developer decides to exercise the ROFR - they don't get a minimum or base price they simply get whatever low value you offered (plus costs to them) and you just move on to the next deal. Eventually (often first try) you'll get your deal. That is the only way to go with a ROFR place as otherwise you'll be the one stuck with a purchase price the market won't suppor and you'll take the loss on resale. Don't get suckered in.

Usually you'll find that ROFR resorts are also run by the Developer as management long after they should be gone and the resort /Association should be taken over by the real owners. If it is not that is strike two against owning there. Best to avoid both issues - ROFR and Developer management by looking for another resort.

ROFR and Developer management of resorts are problems you can easily avoid. Look elsewhere as there are literally hundreds of resort options many can be cheaper to own & can easily obtain this type of resort via trade or you can simply rent for less than you will spend to buy/own. No timeshare is worth much over $5K today - no matter where or what resort. While a few (VERY FEW) may get more than that in the long run you are better off renting vs taking on an excessive annual fee and a hefty purchase price. Eventually the resale price will get to $5K or less and then, if you still want it (you'll probably find you don't anymore) you can buy wisely. If it doesn't avoid it. Far too many great resorts out there for much less. It's a pure buyers market - make sure you use that to your advantage and don't get fooled into any ROFR nonsense.
This is a strange contribution to a Marriott thread. If you want to buy (or sell) Marriott, then ROFR is a fact of life. It can't be "easily avoided" if you want Marriott. Frankly, though, I don't why it's a particular problem OR advantage. If Marriott were ROFRing regularly, then existing owners would have the comfort of a price bottom; but Marriott doesn't. As to the risk of the occasional ROFR, well, just bid again (as you suggest). You might not get the outrageous deal, but you'll definitely get a price hugely below developer retail, or any comparable usage via Vacation Club points. ROFR, by itself, is therefore absolutely no reason to avoid Marriott.
The general point that renting without buying saves money is very persuasive. However, a lot of folks don't like the uncertainty of rental, and a relatively modest capital outlay (as you say, $5000 is enough to snag many nice weeks at many nice places) buys them predictability. Peace of mind (and pride of ownership) are worth something.
 

timeos2

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ROFR is something that seems to be in place at many of the higher end ( hotel associated) resorts. These happen to be the resorts where I prefer to stay. I like the amenities and flexiblitly and they work best for my travel style and personal needs. I agree that ROFR is not always in the seller's interest. I also agree that one should always ignore the presumed ROFR price and just pay what its worth to you. that applies to any purchase; you should never pay more due to some presumed influence on its value, but only its intrisic value to the purchaser. However, I cannot fully subscribe to the belief that it offers NO protection to the seller. These have been EXTREME times in these troubled economic environment and while you say that NO timeshare is worth more than $5k, that is inconsistent with the fact that, albeit, selectively, MArriot had chosen to exercise ROFR at 9K. This in fact provides some protection to a seller.

Anyone is free to agree, or disagree. Its all good.

Unfortunately even that seeming small amount of "protection" doesn't exist under ROFR as the "offer" from Marriott won't happen unless they already have an existing (usually hard to get) offer from a real, willing buyer. If there was a true floor or minimum value - a standing purchase offer for $XX - then there would in fact be a value to ROFR. But there isn't so it remains a negative. I wish I could find a positive about ROFR but they simply do not exist. There are a few, very few, Marriotts that don't have ROFR but they are few and tend to be the older locations.

We decided many years ago (which we now are VERY thankful for) that any ROFR system or resort just doesn't make the cut for us. We were this close - twice - to buying at what I still feel is one of the best resorts in the world - Marriott Manor House (original buildings not the sequel). We ended up just trading or renting and have got every time/resort we wanted in the Marriott system. We are now done with it and thankfully have nothing to have to try to sell or any annual fees to pay. It turned out to be an unexpectedly great decision not to buy. And I thank ROFR for making us decide we didn't want to buy there. So maybe that is the upside to ROFR afterall.
 
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OldPantry

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Unfortunately even that seeming small amount of "protection" doesn't exist under ROFR as the "offer" from Marriott won't happen unless they already have an existing (usually hard to get) offer from a real, willing buyer. If there was a true floor or minimum value - a standing purchase offer for $XX - then there would in fact be a value to ROFR. But there isn't so it remains a negative. I wish I could find a positive about ROFR but they simply do not exist. There are a few, very few, Marriotts that don't have ROFR but they are few and tend to be the older locations.

We decided many years ago (which we now are VERY thankful for) that any ROFR system or resort just doesn't make the cut for us. We were this close - twice - to buying at what I still feel is one of the best resorts in the world - Marriott Manor House (original buildings not the sequel). We ended up just trading or renting and have got every time/resort we wanted in the Marriott system. We are now done with it and thankfully have nothing to have to try to sell or any annual fees to pay. It turned out to be an unexpectedly great decision not to buy. And I thank ROFR for making us decide we didn't want to buy there. So maybe that is the upside to ROFR afterall.
I get why you don't want to buy. But, what does ROFR have to do with it? For a buyer (somebody who actually WANTS to buy, foolishly or not), ROFR functions exactly like an auction where somebody else gets a final bid after yours (think a quicker snipe program). If they bid your price plus $1, then you'd just shrug and say "darn, somebody outbid me." The snipe is no reason to decide not to buy; you'd just need to try again, perhaps wasting less time the second time around, as you'd have a better idea what the competition is willing to pay.
 

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Unfortunately even that seeming small amount of "protection" doesn't exist under ROFR as the "offer" from Marriott won't happen unless they already have an existing (usually hard to get) offer from a real, willing buyer. If there was a true floor or minimum value - a standing purchase offer for $XX - then there would in fact be a value to ROFR. But there isn't so it remains a negative. I wish I could find a positive about ROFR but they simply do not exist. There are a few, very few, Marriotts that don't have ROFR but they are few and tend to be the older locations.

We decided many years ago (which we now are VERY thankful for) that any ROFR system or resort just doesn't make the cut for us. We were this close - twice - to buying at what I still feel is one of the best resorts in the world - Marriott Manor House (original buildings not the sequel). We ended up just trading or renting and have got every time/resort we wanted in the Marriott system. We are now done with it and thankfully have nothing to have to try to sell or any annual fees to pay. It turned out to be an unexpectedly great decision not to buy. And I thank ROFR for making us decide we didn't want to buy there. So maybe that is the upside to ROFR afterall.

In choosing the word "protection" I was imprecise with my words. In any market, there are multiple factors that influence pricing. At any given time, certain factors are playing more of a role than others. Market participants are often aware of these factors and it can and will influence behavior, right or wrong. The existence of ROFR is one factor that can influence pricing. When Marriott was exercising routinely and at a known % of retail value, they were a meaningful factor in influencing pricing. Now that they have largely been absent and changed their model, they are less significant a factor, but a factor none-the-less. ROFR is supportive to prices when used actively and while it may do nothing for one individual transaction, its existence and potential influence on price discovery to the overall market cannot be fully discounted.

It is not necessarily protection for the seller, but it does influence pricing; When being actively used for so many years as it was, it set a floor for most probable transactions. No one ever said that the floor cannot go higher or lower or go away totally, which is virtually has, but its not irrelevant by any means.

I agree that an informed buyer will know that they stand a good chance of picking up a week they want very cheaply right now, but many are not....the sophistication and balance of sophisticated versus unsophisticated buyers in a market as inefficient as the timeshare mkt is also an important influencing factor of pricing.

I do follow the logic that because there is no stated floor, it is therfore a "negative". Not so, I suggest, just less important among the myriad of market influences at some times.
 

MOXJO7282

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We decided many years ago (which we now are VERY thankful for) that any ROFR system or resort just doesn't make the cut for us. We were this close - twice - to buying at what I still feel is one of the best resorts in the world - Marriott Manor House (original buildings not the sequel). We ended up just trading or renting and have got every time/resort we wanted in the Marriott system. We are now done with it and thankfully have nothing to have to try to sell or any annual fees to pay. It turned out to be an unexpectedly great decision not to buy. And I thank ROFR for making us decide we didn't want to buy there. So maybe that is the upside to ROFR afterall.

It was a good decision not to buy there because as nice as it is its one of the most over developed areas in all of TSing and pricing naturally was going to drop like a rock in tough times.

Now if you would have been looking at MOW or the Aruba Surf and decided not to buy then you would have been making a mistake because getting into the ground floor of one of those was a big time smart move.

I got into an 2B Plat OV for $20k with $500k points. If I would have thought like you I would have walked away and missed out on some tremendous value. I've rented this unit 6 times since I owned for at least 2.5 - 3x MF. I regret not buying a few more. Now I've received offers for $15k

If ROFR have a negative drain it would be on all, but in truth its only the over developed ones that are just dropping as a result of that fact and nothing more in my book.

I personally don't think ROFR has an effect either way but for you to think it acts as a drain on pricing and cite the Manor Club as an example that doesn't work IMHO because at the same time if you were looking at those other resorts mentioned would have been making a bad decisions using your logic to walk away.
 

dioxide45

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Marriott only sells weeks listed by owners. They get a 40% commission on such sales. They do not sell weeks on spec that they don't have and then go out and try to find the weeks. There is no chance that this is what happened here.

Do you know this for a fact? Marriott has two waiting lists. Those wanting to sell their weeks and those wanting to sell. It is very likely that they have a waiting list for platinum resale purchases at Ocean Pointe and no one on the list wanting to sell.

What is one week really going to get them for the trust. They have far easier access to this inventory through II exchange.

They may not be selling weeks on spec but that doesn't mean they don't have a waiting list of those looking to buy weeks through their resale program.
 

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You should be arguing the merits of ROFR in the thread designated for it.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79996

Right you are, and I fully realize how old and rehashed a debate this is, to the point that it is not even remotely interesting anymore. I generally don't get involved in it for that reason but, hey, I haven't been sleeping well and needed something to do late at night.....
 

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I am bidding on a Platinum Marriott Custom House in Boston.

This thread is very helpful.

Thanks.
 
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