Wyndham Sales Claim--Too good to be true?

I was told something today by a sales lady, and it doesn't seem like it could be true. The claim is that if you are a Wyndham owner and you own another RCI resort, Wyndham will trade you points for those weeks according to the following schedule:

105,000 Wyndham points for a 1BR
154,000 for a 2BR
254,000 for a 3BR

And it doesn't matter the week or the rating of resort, as long as it is RCI listed.

Is there any way this could be correct? And if so, can you cite a written source? Thanks.

Were her lips moving? You already know the answer.

Dave

willilamsj92 said:

I was told something today by a sales lady, and it doesn't seem like it could be true. The claim is that if you are a Wyndham owner and you own another RCI resort, Wyndham will trade you points for those weeks according to the following schedule:

105,000 Wyndham points for a 1BR
154,000 for a 2BR
254,000 for a 3BR

And it doesn't matter the week or the rating of resort, as long as it is RCI listed.

Is there any way this could be correct? And if so, can you cite a written source? Thanks.

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BMWguynw said:

Were her lips moving? You already know the answer.

Dave

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She was talking about the PIC Plus program, and it is legit.

You can "PIC" up to two weeks at a non-Wyndham resort as long as the unit is eligible for RCI Weeks (I don't believe RCI Points ownerships are eligible for PIC). Of course, in order to enroll your weeks in PIC, you need to buy a minimum amount of retail points. You need to keep paying your maintenance fees on the non-Wyndham weeks, and there is an annual $89 for each PIC week you deposit in a given year. In general, you are best off if you PIC 3 BR weeks, and only do so if your total annual cost (MF + $89 annual fee + $0.57/1000 points) is below $5/1000 points. So for a 3 BR, your MF for the week should be no higher than about $1000 (and about $600 for a 2 BR). Wyndham's annual fees bring the annual total to about $1270 ($770 for a 2 BR). If you have a week for less MF, even better.

PIC weeks count towards VIP status, but the cost-benefit of VIP is well-discussed in other threads and would be too long to capture here.

Cut and paste from the Wyndham Website Online Learning Center (note: it has been reported that the PIC chart has been simplified to the top line and all weeks are considered "red"):
PIC Plus

What is it?

Personal Interval Choice (PIC) Plus is a program that allows members of the CLUB WYNDHAM® community to enroll weeks purchased through other timeshare companies (and affiliated with RCI®) into the CLUB WYNDHAM Plus program and receive points for use in the CLUB WYNDHAM Plus program.


Tell me more

When you enroll your non-CLUB WYNDHAM Plus week(s) into PIC Plus, you will be assigned a point value determined by the PIC Plus Allocation Chart shown below. The point value of your enrolled week(s) counts towards VIP eligibility.


How does this work?

Each year you decide how you want to use your enrolled PIC Plus week(s):

• Vacation at your non-CLUB WYNDHAM Plus home resort or
• Exchange it for PIC Plus points or
• Exchange your week through RCI

If you choose to exchange your PIC Plus week for points, here’s what you need to do:

1. Contact RCI at least 9 months before the start date of your PIC Plus week.
2. Your non-CLUB WYNDHAM Plus resort may require your maintenance fees to be paid prior to approval.
3. Upon approval from your non-CLUB WYNDHAM Plus resort, RCI will mail you a Deposit Acknowledgement card to let you know your request is approved.
4. Call Vacation Planning when you receive approval and we will complete the transaction and place the PIC Plus points in your account.

• In order to participate in PIC Plus you need to be a member of RCI.
• Each non-CLUB WYNDHAM Plus interval week must be enrolled in the PIC Plus program in order to participate.
• A maximum of two (2) weeks can be enrolled per member.
• PIC contracts cannot be transferred to another owner.
• You will need to be current in both your CLUB WYNDHAM Plus assessment fees and your yearly maintenance fees in order to request an exchange.
• Weeks enrolled in PIC Plus will be subject to an annual verification process. When a week no longer meets the eligibility requirements, it is removed from the PIC Plus program.
• When making a PIC deposit, you will select if you want to receive points in the current Use Year or the following Use Year.
• Points will expire at the end of the Use Year selected and can be used for many of the great vacation benefits in the CLUB WYNDHAM Plus program.
• PIC Plus points cannot be used for Priority Reservations, Points Credit Pool, Converting Points to Maintenance Dollars, or Wyndham Rewards® Conversion Program.
• PIC Express contract points can only be used toward VIP status and are ineligible for resort stays.

Sorry. I retract my previous comment. And I'm shocked to hear something a sales person said was actually true.

Dave

BMWguynw said:

Sorry. I retract my previous comment. And I'm shocked to hear something a sales person said was actually true.

Dave

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I know, right? Just a little bit of actual truth, then Wham! blindside you with the exaggerations and half-truths (if not all out lies).

FYI, the PIC program has been revised. Seasonality is no longer factored, only unit size.

Also, there is "PIC Express" which doesn't give you the "points" but does give you the credit for the points towards VIP eligibility, regardless of where the weeks are located (even affiliates, etc. that are not PIC-eligible). However, this program is time bound - I believe 5 years. Give you a taste of VIP benefits and then take it away (even though you have to make a retail purchase to enable even PIC express).

However, both programs require an outrageously priced retail purchase, I believe to PIC two weeks you would have to purchase 126K points.

Written on page 347 of Directory.

The catch is you must make a Developer purchase generally around $20K and it is subject to change at Wyndham's whim.

Bigrob said:

...
However, both programs require an outrageously priced retail purchase, I believe to PIC two weeks you would have to purchase 126K points.

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This actual number of points required seems to vary greatly upon the salesman/resort. I've seen anything from 98k, to 105k (my experience at Flagstaff), to your 126k. Let's just say it is a lot of cash no matter what!

Is there an additional cost to participate in this program ?

pedro47 said:

Is there an additional cost to participate in this program ?

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See 2nd paragraph of post #3. In summary:

1) retail purchase of some amount (roughly $15-20k) for the privilege of enrolling up to 2 weeks.
1a) the ongoing MF for the retail points.
2) $89 fee for each week to deposit it for points in any given year
3) Club Wyndham Plus program fee of $0.57/1000 PIC points (this is the rate you pay for having any retail points in the account). I'm not 100% sure on this fee, but suspect this is applies.

uscav8r said:

This actual number of points required seems to vary greatly upon the salesman/resort. I've seen anything from 98k, to 105k (my experience at Flagstaff), to your 126k. Let's just say it is a lot of cash no matter what!

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I think you're right Chris. The minimum for a PIC is 49K. To PIC two weeks is 98K, but they generally "round" that up to 105K so they can include "Pathways" for your benefit.

126K is what it takes to convert two fixed weeks (63K each).

Bigrob said:

I think you're right Chris. The minimum for a PIC is 49K. To PIC two weeks is 98K, but they generally "round" that up to 105K so they can include "Pathways" for your benefit.



126K is what it takes to convert two fixed weeks (63K each).

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Don't forget deedbacks/foreclosures. Now I know why they pushed 105k on me...

So many caveats! Good to know the differences.


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uscav8r said:

I know, right? Just a little bit of actual truth, then Wham! blindside you with the exaggerations and half-truths (if not all out lies).

Click to expand...

Yep. I'm still surprised there was truth to it.

Dave

Thanks for all the great info.

So if:
1) You have to buy the Wyndham points from the developer and not resale. AND
2) You can't use RCI points to buy cheap weeks to then deposits, instead having to deposit weeks from resorts that you actually own.

Then here is how I see the options breaking down. I need about 600K Wyndham points to meet my needs, and VIP is not that useful to me because I will book in mostly overbuilt areas out of season where I can use Wyndham's points for RCI within 60 days at a discount.

Option A: Spend about $16K upfront for 126K Wyndham points from the developer + about $1K for 2 RCI 3BR weeks. Ongoing, MF of about $730 for Wyndyam + MF of about $2K for the 3BRs + $180 to make the 2 deposits. Total of $17K upfront and 2,900 per year. OR
Option B: Upfront, spend about $4K to buy about 600K Wyndham points resale + about $3,550 in annual MFs.

So it boils down to spending an extra $13K upfront for saving $650/yr. That's only a 5% ROI which only holds up if I don't ever sell and take a loss on my retail purchase.

Are there any problems with my assumptions or math?

FYI, the sales agent I spoke with gave me the information and said to take it home and weigh my options. I couldn't believe it myself.

willilamsj92 said:

Thanks for all the great info.

So if:
1) You have to buy the Wyndham points from the developer and not resale. AND
2) You can't use RCI points to buy cheap weeks to then deposits, instead having to deposit weeks from resorts that you actually own.

Then here is how I see the options breaking down. I need about 600K Wyndham points to meet my needs, and VIP is not that useful to me because I will book in mostly overbuilt areas out of season where I can use Wyndham's points for RCI within 60 days at a discount.

Option A: Spend about $16K upfront for 126K Wyndham points from the developer + about $1K for 2 RCI 3BR weeks. Ongoing, MF of about $730 for Wyndyam + MF of about $2K for the 3BRs + $180 to make the 2 deposits. Total of $17K upfront and 2,900 per year. OR
Option B: Upfront, spend about $4K to buy about 600K Wyndham points resale + about $3,550 in annual MFs.

So it boils down to spending an extra $13K upfront for saving $650/yr. That's only a 5% ROI which only holds up if I don't ever sell and take a loss on my retail purchase.

Are there any problems with my assumptions or math?

FYI, the sales agent I spoke with gave me the information and said to take it home and weigh my options. I couldn't believe it myself.

Click to expand...

The only thing I see is that the difference is probably larger than you stated because I would be surprised it you could buy 126,000 points from Wyndham for $16,000. I would bet it is closer to $20,000.


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A couple observations.

If you can get Developer points for $13K per 100K you are getting rock bottom price. However, it is sunk money.

Wyndham does review eligibility every year and in past has dropped resorts.

You will get Silver VIP with this deal and could ask to bonus up to Gold for 2 years.

If you can get say 203K points for $26K it may be worth while to go for Gold VIP. Since you are booking off season you could do cancel and rebook and end up with 35% more points. You would get unlimited RTs and HKs so could do a lot of short vacations. Or, rent a week or two and cover extra MF

Since you are good with numbers take a look at VIP chart and see what VIP benefits would be worth to you. If you calculate over $1K a year then in 10 years would recover extra $10K.

I do not advocate buying from Developer to get VIP, but does not hurt to do "what ifs".

I think most RCI last minute deals are cash. If you use points there is $209 booking fee!

OP:

Do you already own non-Wyndham resorts (or plan to buy some in any case)? If so, you have an Option C:

Buy only enough Wyndham points to augment the non-Wyndham weeks. You could get by with about 231k-308k depending on your needs., and this could buy you flexibility, especially if they get you into II for exchanges in addition to RCI.

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I only own an RCI points resort--98,000 at the Grandview Las Vegas. I don't own any weeks resorts or Wyndham. Thanks for the tip about II. I don't know anything about them.

FYI, I just extrapolated the $16K price for 126K points because I was offered 205K Wyndham points for $27,100.

willilamsj92 said:

I only own an RCI points resort--98,000 at the Grandview Las Vegas. I don't own any weeks resorts or Wyndham. Thanks for the tip about II. I don't know anything about them.

FYI, I just extrapolated the $16K price for 126K points because I was offered 205K Wyndham points for $27,100.

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If it wasn't clear, only II-affiliated resorts can gain you access into II. A Wyndham membership will come with both an RCI "points" account (must be accessed through the RCI sub-portal on the Wyndham website) that is distinct from your current RCI points account, and an RCI Weeks account, which is where you would deposit any RCI-affiliated weeks you may have (or obtain). I'm not exactly sure how the PIC weeks are handled, if you have to deposit them annually to the RCI weeks account or through some other method/paperwork.

FYI, many resorts will expect you to pre-pay your maintenance fees for the upcoming year before you can deposit into RCI or Wyndham PIC.

uscav8r said:

I'm not exactly sure how the PIC weeks are handled, if you have to deposit them annually to the RCI weeks account or through some other method/paperwork.

FYI, many resorts will expect you to pre-pay your maintenance fees for the upcoming year before you can deposit into RCI or Wyndham PIC.

Click to expand...

Each year you decide how you want to use your enrolled PIC Plus week(s):

Vacation at your non-CLUB WYNDHAM Plus home resort or
Exchange it for PIC Plus points or
Exchange your week through RCI
If you choose to exchange your PIC Plus week for points, here’s what you need to do:

Contact RCI at least 9 months before the start date of your PIC Plus week.
Your non-CLUB WYNDHAM Plus resort may require your maintenance fees to be paid prior to approval.
Upon approval from your non-CLUB WYNDHAM Plus resort, RCI will mail you a Deposit Acknowledgement card to let you know your request is approved.
Call Vacation Planning when you receive approval and we will complete the transaction and place the PIC Plus points in your account.

pacodemountainside said:

Each year you decide how you want to use your enrolled PIC Plus week(s):

Vacation at your non-CLUB WYNDHAM Plus home resort or
Exchange it for PIC Plus points or
Exchange your week through RCI
If you choose to exchange your PIC Plus week for points, here’s what you need to do:

Contact RCI at least 9 months before the start date of your PIC Plus week.
Your non-CLUB WYNDHAM Plus resort may require your maintenance fees to be paid prior to approval.
Upon approval from your non-CLUB WYNDHAM Plus resort, RCI will mail you a Deposit Acknowledgement card to let you know your request is approved.
Call Vacation Planning when you receive approval and we will complete the transaction and place the PIC Plus points in your account.

Click to expand...

Thanks, Paco. Sounds like a paperwork (faxwork?) drill.