Newbie

[Joss]

Shouldn't it be illegal for Westgate not to tell buyers upfront about a rescinding period? My husband and I weren't told and we left 1 day after we signed up. The closing officer said to make sure this is what we wanted because once we signed we were committed. We didn't know it was on the cd included in our case and so it was too late to rescind. This sort of tactic is unfair!

[Stricky]

Most TS sales people lie. Sorry.

[djs]

It unfortunately it now becomes a case of "he said, she said" and somewhere in the documents you signed, your rights to rescind are most likely clearly spelled out. They probably also told you that you could exchange your 1-B unit (if that's what you purchased) for a 2B in Hawaii because everyone wants to go to Orlando. Another flat-out lie except that the word "could" does not mean that you "will be able to".

If you bought in FL, you have 10 days to rescind; as long as your letter is postmarked within that timeframe you will be OK. Sounds like you've found the language in your docs and are past the rescission period but if you aren't there is still hope. Many major cities have post offices that are open on weekends (including Sundays) it would be WELL worth your time to travel to one of those post offices to mail your letter if you are pushing against the deadline (if Monday is your deadline, then don't worry about finding someplace tomorrow).

At this point you probably would prefer not to own at Westgate, but if you still wanted to you could find a unit on eBay for $1 max.

All that said, if you are in fact the proud owner of a Westgate TS, please take time to search around here and find a way to enjoy what you've purchased. At the very least you should be able to use it for 1-week a year (or EOY if that's what you purchased) for a vacation. Just be prepared as they will constantly try to "upsell" you by offering you special deals that will only be available the day they offer them to you.

A few years back I exchanged into a Westgate TS in Orlando and aside from them trying to sell me an additional unit the vacation was quite enjoyable....we did have a slight run-in with security having to call our unit but that was probably more due to a rather loud drunken off-color conversation a few of us were having.

[theo]

Originally Posted by Joss

Shouldn't it be illegal for Westgate not to tell buyers upfront about a rescinding period? My husband and I weren't told and we left 1 day after we signed up. The closing officer said to make sure this is what we wanted because once we signed we were committed. We didn't know it was on the cd included in our case and so it was too late to rescind. This sort of tactic is unfair!

In the U.S., the right to cancel (rescind) a timeshare purchase from a developer is a right which is provided by state law. Westgate (or any other developer) does not "choose to provide" this option as some sort of act of kindness and neither Westgate nor any other developer can ever avoid (or ever override) the laws' existence. It's the law. Rescission time periods vary among different states (from as few as 3 days to as many as 15 days (an unusually long example --- in Alaska only). It is also a legal requirement that your right of cancellation be made clearly known to to you within the purchase / contract package.

The new twist I see here which I have never encountered before (...and it's certainly no surprise that it should first be introduced by the likes of Westgate ) is that your "notice of right of rescission" (...if I understand your post correctly and if it is accurately stated...) was apparently provided to you on a CD, separate from the purchase contract documents. While I don't personally claim to know the legality of this particular form of "notice", I would certainly be inclined to question the legality of that particular avenue of "separate, electronic notice" and whether it even fulfills the legal requirements of proper notification of your right of rescission. It seems to me that, logically, the "notice of right of recission" should be provided on paper, in writing within the very same document which you sign to effect the puirchase. Or maybe Westgate somehow believes (perhaps incorrectly) that only computer users are actually entitled to see the notification of their rights of rescission, when (...or if) they later choose to view their CD at home, after purchasing?

It's your call and it's your purchase, but if you want to look into escaping this purchase, I'd certainly be inclined to at least "raise some ruckus" with Westgate on this point. Of course, if the right of rescission notification is also provided in writing within the signed purchase contract document itself, you won't have much of a case ---"didn't read it" is a distinctly different situation from "wasn't provided it"....

[timeos2]

Originally Posted by theo

The new twist I see here which I have never encountered before (...and it's certainly no surprise that it should first be introduced by the likes of Westgate ) is that your "notice of right of rescission" (...if I understand your post correctly and if it is accurately stated...) was apparently provided to you on a CD, separate from the purchase contract documents.

For at least a year now new suckers, er, buyers of Wastegate have been reporting that the rescind information is supplied on a cd rather than in written form. If it helps to hide things or make them tougher, legal or not, you can be assured Wastegate will use it against buyers.

Hopefully the OP is still within the legal time frame to rescind as completing this sale is only the start of a lifetime nightmare for them. If not they should challenge the notice and at least try to get out (even if it COST them a few thousand they would be light years ahead over actually owning at any Wastegate).

The stories of underhanded and corrupt actions by this despicable organization will never end unless they go out of business (hope hope!). The PH Tower of Terror may in fact end up killing them which would be a great outcome and well deserved. If they disappeared tomorrow it would be the start of a great new day for us owners.

[BevL]

This is an interesting question. Most contracts contain more or less boilerplate language to the effect that the contract is the entire agreement between the parties - in other words, it doesn't matter what somebody said, if it is or is not in the contract, that's what governs. That's how they get around the problem you mention, of salesmen lying. They can simply rely on the written contract.

If there's some sort of language like that in a contract that is signed, and there is no recission clause in that written contract, which is required by state law, it would be worth pursuing. At least I would be pursuing that possibility.

I would wager it's in the contract though, probably page 17, clause 361(b)(ii) in print that is half the size of the balance of the document.

JMHO

[AwayWeGo]

Originally Posted by timeos2

If they disappeared tomorrow it would be the start of a great new day for us owners.

Maybe. But not if the successor company operates the same way or worse.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.

[timeos2]

Originally Posted by AwayWeGo

Maybe. But not if the successor company operates the same way or worse.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.

Never say never but in the case of Westgate it simply isn't possible that anything/anyone could be any worse. So even if Genghis Khan came in and literally tried to torture owners most would probably feel they were better off than they are under current management. They are truly the worst of the worst.

[theo]

Originally Posted by timeos2

...in the case of Westgate it simply isn't possible that anything/anyone could be any worse.......
They are truly the worst of the worst.

I don't claim to know who is "the worst of the worst", but other "owner" sites pertaining to "chain" timeshare companies clearly indicate that Celebrity Resorts is also a legitimate contender for this dubious distinction.

So....there is apparently some "competition" for this particular heavyweight championship title....

[Joss]

Thanks to everyone for helping me with my question.
I'm away from home now and will look closer at my contract when I return especially at pg. 17- clause 361.
I'm thinking of involving my lawyer if I feel that something isn't legit.

[theo]

Originally Posted by Joss

Thanks to everyone for helping me with my question.
I'm away from home now and will look closer at my contract when I return especially at pg. 17- clause 361.
I'm thinking of involving my lawyer if I feel that something isn't legit.

State law previously afforded you a rescission period, but that time period had apparently already passed even by the time of your first post here. It has now also been an additional 18 days since that post. Accordingly, the rescission period previously available under state law has clearly long since expired.

If you intend to attempt to cancel the contract at this point, attorney involvement may well become a necessity --- not just an option to "think of involving". I'm no expert (...and I did not sleep at a Holiday Inn last night either), but I would (and I do) certainly question whether the required notice of rescission rights being placed on a separate CD instead of being provided in writing within the actual contract documents is even lawful in the first place. That "notice on separate CD" practice is obviously sneaky, underhanded and deceitful, but whether the practice also fails to adequately (i.e., legally) fulfill the "notice" requirements of the applicable state law is not clear (...not to me, anyhow).

[Joss]

Originally Posted by theo

State law previously afforded you a rescission period, but that time period had apparently already passed even by the time of your first post here. It has now also been an additional 18 days since that post. Accordingly, the rescission period previously available under state law has clearly long since expired.

If you intend to attempt to cancel the contract at this point, attorney involvement may well become a necessity --- not just an option to "think of involving". I'm no expert (...and I did not sleep at a Holiday Inn last night either), but I would (and I do) certainly question whether the required notice of rescission rights being placed on a separate CD instead of being provided in writing within the actual contract documents is even lawful in the first place. That "notice on separate CD" practice is obviously sneaky, underhanded and deceitful, but whether the practice also fails to adequately (i.e., legally) fulfill the "notice" requirements of the applicable state law is not clear (...not to me, anyhow).

I've viewed my purchase contract document on the CD and it wasn't signed by me or my husband. I did notice at the top of it that stated we had 10 days to rescind.
Because there is no signatures or anything filled in the lines what now? We have no signed purchase document anywhere in our case.

[Rent_Share]

I vaguely remeber a post about the document with the recission agreement being "accidentally omitted" in the paperwork provided in a Las Vegas transaction

That buyer did get on the internet while still in Las Vagas and sucessfully rescinded

Here is the scenario I was remembering

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104248

[theo]

Originally Posted by Joss

I've viewed my purchase contract document on the CD and it wasn't signed by me or my husband. I did notice at the top of it that stated we had 10 days to rescind.
Because there is no signatures or anything filled in the lines what now? We have no signed purchase document anywhere in our case.

With due respect, in your initial post on 10/30/09, you clearly indicated having "signed up with" (i.e. purchased from) Westgate. Clearly, you must have personally signed hard copy contract documents in order to initiate that purchase. You were issued that briefcase of materials only after you actually "bought in".
Do you now not have copies of the actual, original hard copy documents which you must have physically signed at the time of your purchase when you paid (at least) a deposit (or more) to execute the contract???

The CD to which you make reference likely just contains "boiler plate" templates of virtually any and every hard copy contract content (simply without the names and dates and other details of the individual transaction involved). In my view, the fundamental question really was (...and still remains) whether or not you were lawfully provided notice of your right of rescission, as is required by law --- either in hard copy form within the actual contract documents which you originally signed, or via this "separate" CD (...a form of "separate notice" which may or may not actually be legally sufficient).

As stated previously, I think that you need competent legal counsel --- and the sooner the better, since it is now apparently more than a month since you (presumably) signed a purchase contract. Time's a wastin'...

[Joss]

Thanks for the advice.
My husband and I did sign a form called a Dayline Proposal so I guess everything is legal there.
I just wished that Westgate would have told us that we could rescind in 10 days. I guess I was looking for a flub by them. I found this site too late and didn't know about any rescinding period which was on a CD included in our case. We didn't look at the CD until it was too late.
When I saw how many people hated this company, I saw red and wondered what the heck did we do! It makes me shudder what crap we'll go through to get a vacation we want. One of our daughters was going to get married in the Dominican this summer and we couldn't get a thing there. We tried to book in Aug. 2008. Are we stuck with going to Orlando forever? LOL
It would be good to hear some positive feedback from Westgate owners instead of the many negatives.