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Raintree Vacation Club - Sales Misrepresentations

hellolani

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My name is Lani Ng and I joined this forum about a week ago after purchasing my membership on my honeymoon in PV. Our purchase date was January 16th, and I'm sharing here my formal complaint letter with RVC that I've just sent to the Sales Director Art Denning at Club Regina, Doug Bech the CEO, and Member Services. I apologize for the length of the missive below, but I hope that by chronicling our attempt to ask Raintree to do right by us it will be of some assistance to others who find themselves in our position. I will of course follow up to share any responses we receive from the company.

8 February 2011

Dear Mr. Denning, Mr. Bech, and Raintree Member Services,

We recently entered a contract with your company to buy a timeshare at Club Regina Puerto Vallarta, and we are writing today to express our serious concerns about that contract and the underlying timeshare. In short, we were told several things during the presentation that turned out not to be true.

On January 1st we were married and we went to Puerto Vallarta on our honeymoon from January 15th to 22nd. When we arrived at the airport we were asked by a man named Angel to attend a presentation at Club Regina. When we first started touring the grounds of Club Regina, we were enchanted. It is a beautiful setting with carefully maintained grounds and we especially enjoyed the fact that art and sculpture were on display throughout the property. Our presenter was named Jack Kilroe. He shared with us the advantages of a points-based vacation club membership, and we listened with open minds. Over 4 hours of talking Jack outlined the benefits of the Raintree points system and persuaded us that the flexibility of would be worth the very significant investment that he told us would be required.

Jack told us that with 50,000 annual points, we would be able to book one week in a one bedroom suite within any of the Raintree properties, save for on holiday weeks. This turned out to be true. He also said that in any year that we did not use our points, they could be deferred to the next year for use without any penalty, and that a fee could be levied to allow us to carry them forward annually beyond one year. This also turned out to be true.

However, you must know that these features alone could not justify an investment of $24,750, followed by an annual maintenance fee of $934 USD, and Jack himself confirmed this. He explained to us that merely booking within the club and staying within the Raintree properties is not the best use of our points nor the way that most members end up using them. Jack further explained to us that the best use could be made of our points by leveraging them with partner programs accessible to Raintree members. This could be done by joining RCI and depositing our points to trade to other resorts and services. Jack then named three benefits that were crucial to our decision that turned out not to be true.

1. Last Minute Bookings

He indicated that our 50,000 points, if used on a short notice booking schedule, would allow us to vacation for 5 1/2 weeks if we could book within 6 weeks for last minute vacations on RCI. Despite the additional fees, we felt that this would still be a good value, and that 6 weeks would be just enough time to get organized with a flight to the resorts that we would be able to access through this program. However, upon further research, we have since found out that at least since last year in 2010, RCI has cut back the booking window for their 9000 point reservations to only 4 weeks, which as any sensible traveller would know, antes up significantly the cost of booking flights, thus making this misrepresentation another hindrance on using our membership allotment of points.

2. Flight Bookings

Due to exchange fees, Jack shared with us that many members chose not to book any resort time with their points, but rather opted to travel with them by trading them in for flights. He pulled out a sheet from his binder and pointed out to us that the cost in points for a flight from Vancouver BC, where we live, to Cancun was 13,000 points per person return. By his estimation, since the flight from Vancouver BC to the West Coast of Mexico, or Puerto Vallarta was shorter, it should actually cost us much less to fly per person return, and his guess was that it would be closer to 11,000 points. I have since been online to verify his claim and have discovered several factors which make this option impossible for us to use.

Firstly, RCI points partners permit us to use a maximum of 1/3 of our deposited points to fly with, which adds to 16,667 points if we deposited all of them. Secondly, in the attached document entitled "RCI Points Partners Flights" you will see as we did that a return flight for one from North America to Mexico is between 40,000 and 48,000 points, taking up our entire annual allotment to fly only one of us down to Mexico. In our agreement to purchase, our calculation of the long term benefit of our membership was based on being able to fly both myself and my husband twice a year for vacation. As that is now impossible, our membership has become a very expensive way to vacation defeating Jack's thesis that this is ultimately a very economical and high value way to vacation. Without Jack’s assurances of our being able to use our points to fly twice a year together, we would never have agreed to this membership.

3. Point Surrender for Rental Income

Even as we made this discovery, my husband and I were still examining with an open mind how we could possibly make best use of our points. One final security measure that Jack outlined to us which we have discovered is unusable has thoroughly defeated this effort. Jack told us both on our presentation day and at breakfast the next morning when we were clarifying the use of our membership that in any given year when we would not be able to travel, we could easily surrender our points for rental, and that for every 20,000 points we gave back, we would be paid out $1250 as the resort could easily rent that week out to paying clients at a much higher rate. This sealed the deal for my husband and I as we trusted that when unforeseen circumstances arise in the future preventing us from travelling, we would be able to take comfort that our annual maintenance fee would at least be covered by this option.

When I contacted Raintree customer service by email and phone, I was told that this was not an option at all. Later I heard back from Art by email that it was done by an independent broker, but no contact information was provided in your communication. Finally, on the Raintree Vacation Club Facebook page my question was answered by one of your representatives. At first the number he gave me did not work at all, but instead went to an outgoing voice mail message saying a numbered mailbox and a beep, not even identifying the name of the company. I requested clarification and tried google to find the company, called PPM by your representative with no luck online.

Some days later, your representative again posted online that the name of the company was Premier Property Management, at www.premierpropertymanagements.com and gave us another toll free phone number. When I linked to the website, I found it was sparsely lain out with minimal meaningful information and an upfront "membership / listing fee". I was immediately apprehensive as I've been told by many experienced timeshare owners that any company requesting an up-front fee to assist you with the rental or sale of your timeshare is a scam. My fears were further confirmed when I googled the phone number and saw that it was connected to another shell website for a company called Resort Equity Solutions. I called the number to see who I would reach, and was greeted by an outgoing message that invited me to leave a message for an agent to return, but without actually stating the name of the company I had called. At this time I should share with you that I have now been in touch with many timeshare owners that were promised that their unused weeks or points would be easily rented out and that have lost further money to online companies that require a significant up-front fee to rent the property but then stop returning their calls and never pay them out.

As you must have discerned with my lengthy letter, my husband and I have both discovered through our attempts to verify Jack's claims that we are very dissatisfied with joining the Raintree Vacation Club, not only with the misrepresentations that were made to us by our presenter Jack Kilroe, but also by the fact that every attempt we have made to find facts and honest answers to our questions have been met with delays in responding as well as misdirection in the case of PPM. We cannot imagine continuing in a relationship with RVC for the next 36 years with our trust in your company being so severely breached.

Terry and I have spent the last several weeks in a process of hopeful investigation to confirm the use of our membership, and in every subsequent discovery we have been racked with stress and disbelief that we could be dealt with in this manner, and that the actuality would differ so much from the original representation. We have lost sleep and our peace of mind.

We are writing to you today to request the cancellation of our membership and the return of our initial deposit of $12,375 USD, as well as the cancellation of all further charges for our membership. We have dealt with your company in good faith, with open minds and trust in your representations, and it is our sincere hope that in the inability to live up to the expectations your presenter has outlined regarding the use of our membership, that you will do right by us and cancel this membership now.

Please acknowledge receipt of this letter and outline for us the next steps to be taken to complete the cancellation of our membership.

Sincerely,

Lani Ng and Terry Chau
 

cabocabo

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Your Rvc Experience

Lani and terry. The problem is not RVC. The problem is that you did not do your homework prior to making this large investment. Had you done your homework you would have discovered that you vastly overpaid for what you received. You could have gotten the exact same or very similar value for at most 1/10 of the price you paid and likely less than that had you looked on ebay or similar sights. These deals are obtainable for almost nothing these days since people who have previously bought and who can no longer afford to pay the maintenance are practically giving them away for free or very close to it. So now you have buyer's remorse for something you vastly overpaid for and you are blaming it on the details of the deal. Blame yourself. And next time do a little comparison shopping before jumping.
 

CatLovers

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Lani and terry. The problem is not RVC. The problem is that you did not do your homework prior to making this large investment. Had you done your homework you would have discovered that you vastly overpaid for what you received. You could have gotten the exact same or very similar value for at most 1/10 of the price you paid and likely less than that had you looked on ebay or similar sights. These deals are obtainable for almost nothing these days since people who have previously bought and who can no longer afford to pay the maintenance are practically giving them away for free or very close to it. So now you have buyer's remorse for something you vastly overpaid for and you are blaming it on the details of the deal. Blame yourself. And next time do a little comparison shopping before jumping.

Real constructive cabocabo :rolleyes: And I am sure Lani and Terry appreciate your insight. Overpaid, huh? Yes I’m sure they haven’t figured that out by now! :rolleyes:

Lani and Terry, unfortunately you are not alone in getting sucked into the lies and misrepresentations made by sleazy timeshare salespeople. I am sure that a helpful TUGger will be along soon to give you some more specific advice, but if you have not already done so, do a search for “Profeco” here on this site to see if you have another avenue to pursue. Good luck!
 

hellolani

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Response from Doug Bech, President and CEO of Raintree Vacation Club

Well, this response went far beyond my expectations. Now I guess we'll see if we receive a refund. As promised, with email addresses redacted:

Bech, Doug
to lani ng
Denning Art
"memberservices@raintreeclub.com"
"Stamm, Garry"
"Tucker, Brian"
"Thomas, Myron"
"Berger, John"
cc "Landeta, Miryam"


date Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 12:56 PM
subject RE: New member inquiry 3-176900




I have received your letter and your membership will be cancelled. We hope that you will give us another opportunity in the future to correct the problems you encountered. Thank you and best regards, Doug Bech
 

dan_hoog

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If this gets properly followed up, which seems likely, that CEO also deserves a thank you letter. I'm impressed by the response.

-Dan

Well, this response went far beyond my expectations. Now I guess we'll see if we receive a refund. As promised, with email addresses redacted:

Bech, Doug
to lani ng
Denning Art
"memberservices@raintreeclub.com"
"Stamm, Garry"
"Tucker, Brian"
"Thomas, Myron"
"Berger, John"
cc "Landeta, Miryam"


date Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 12:56 PM
subject RE: New member inquiry 3-176900




I have received your letter and your membership will be cancelled. We hope that you will give us another opportunity in the future to correct the problems you encountered. Thank you and best regards, Doug Bech
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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Lani -

That was a very well crafted letter - congratulations. And I suspect that the quality and thoroughness of your letter made a difference.

Also, IMHO, Raintree is one of the better developers; that's not necessarily saying a lot, but there are certainly many outfits around that would not have cancelled the contract at all, or would have cancelled only with the proviso that they get to keep all money you had already paid.
 

Corman

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We had something similar happen to us. Raintree salesperson lied , go figure, through his teeth. We were smart enough to have him write it down and we kept the paper. Long story short, it took a while but our raintree purchase was cancelled , joined TUGS and then I bought another raintree, thank you TUGS, resale.
 
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cabocabo

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to catlovers

And I am sure Lani and Terry appreciate your insight. Overpaid, huh? Yes I’m sure they haven’t figured that out by now! :rolleyes:



In fact they likely did not realize that they overpaid and had they paid the market price for their 50,000 points, which is currently available on ebay for $600, then all the issues that they raised still would have not resulted in such a bad deal for them. The right price, paid for just about anything, including a timeshare, can result in a good deal. Their approach to the transaction was an accident waiting to happen. Caveat emptor.
 
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hellolani

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A few more replies

lani ng
to Doug, Denning, memberservices, Garry, Brian, Myron, John, Miryam, info, Lani, Christy, Miguel

show details 2:54 PM (18 hours ago)

Dear Doug,

Thank you for your personal response. I truly appreciate the time you've taken to review our experience and to assist us with the cancellation.

Best regards,

Lani Ng and Terry Chau
****************************************
Bech, Doug
to me, Denning, memberservices, Garry, Brian, Myron, John, Miryam, info, Lani, Christy, Miguel

show details 5:35 AM (3 hours ago)


You’re welcome. Please let me know if you have not received confirmation of cancellation by the end of next week if not sooner. Best regards, Doug
*************************************************
Denning Art
to Del, me, Brian

show details 7:35 AM (1 hour ago)


Hello Lani , I have and am in receipt of your request for cancellation. I apologize for the misrepresentations and for any distress this has caused you. I read your attachments that you sent and want you to know we do not condone these type of misrepresentations. I want to give you my assurance that I will be speaking with Jack about this .



Respectfully,



Arthur Denning │ Sales Director

Raintree Resorts International
 

CatLovers

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Excellent news Lani, I'm glad it worked out in your favor!
 

cdn_traveler

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Awesome news Lani! So glad for you that RVC will be cancelling your membership and refunding your money.

We are Raintree Owners, and we bought our Raintree Vacation Club gold membership on e-bay a few years ago. It was $100 at the time and came with an extra years worth of points. We own other timeshares, but I have to say that our Raintree points have offered us the most flexiblity and good bang for the buck. Even with the special assessment that we paid!
 

hellolani

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Partial refund processed

Happy Valentine's Day, Tuggers.

Today I checked online with my MasterCard statement and saw that the $699 processing fee for our contract was refunded by RVC. I actually didn't hold any hope that this amount would be returned to us but was requesting that the main portion of our deposit be refunded. That hasn't shown up yet, but I'm happy to keep checking through the end of the week, and I'll keep you all posted.

Cheers,
Lani
 

hellolani

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Last post

Hi Tuggers, the last portion of our refund was processed and posted to our mastercard today. I'm finally exhaling! I wish any other visitors to this site facing similar challenges the best of luck in resolving their issues, my fingers are crossed for you guys. Here below is my thank you note to Doug Bech:

Dear Doug,

I'm writing to thank you. We received notice from our credit card that a refund was processed both for our deposit and for the processing fee of $699. Though this has been a stressful experience, your response was swift, compassionate and thorough.

Terry and I are truly appreciative of your help and thank you immensely.

Best regards,
Lani and Terry
 

nazclk

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Research

Cabocabo I am confident that everyone going on their honeymoon is going to research the cost of timeshares:doh: They were the typical mark with a big red X on their forehead, people on their honeymoon, caught up in the moment, beautiful resort, a salesman's dream. Staying at timeshares for over 12 years now, I see it happen all the time.
 

Blondie

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Doug Bech and John Berger are quite customer orientated. They are stand up guys who listen to the concerns of their members and value that connection. I would like to meet them some day as they have been first rate with me. I love my RVC membership.
 
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