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Pets are now permitted at A Place At the Beach III in Atlantic Beach, NC

dougp26364

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Not to even mention the legal and / or settlement costs to the timeshare HOA when some innocent timeshare (...but not pet) owner inevitably has severe allergic reactions requiring medical attention --- because of the prior week-long presence of some little Feline Fluffy while occupying their own unit / week. :eek:

A dog bite sustained by another owner (...or guest, renter, employee, or vendor) while legitimately on property? I can hear the "Ka-Chings" as the cash register sings.

Can you say "treble damages"? Winning such cases and associated settlements is child's play, so why knowingly create any such HOA risk and exposure in the first place?

I think your arguement is somewhat irrational.

Using your reasoning, all timeshares should get rid of pools and hot tubs due to the liability risk. Especially when you consider that they rarely have lifeguards.

Why don't they? I think the answer is called insurance. Dogs can bite anyone, anytime, anywhere. When they do I'm sure there is some liablity somewhere and someone is going to pay. Most homeowners policies ask about pets when you purchase them. Some even exclude certain pets, some charge a surcharge if you own certain breeds of dog and some even refuse to write the policy. But most pets are covered under the liablity clause of your homeowners policy as I understand it.

Maybe the resort would get drawn in but, in the end I think you'll find it's the owner responsible for the dog from a liability standpoint.

As to allergins, yea, I get it. But I doubt there's a lot of grounds for liablity so long as the resort discloses itself as pet friendly. There are a lot of things people can have an allergic reaction to, not just pet dander. Some resorts allow smoking on balconies. At least one Colorado resort allows marijuana to be smoked on it's balconies. The allergy lawsuit theory really doesn't carry much weight.
 

theo

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Using your reasoning, all timeshares should get rid of pools and hot tubs due to the liability risk. Especially when you consider that they rarely have lifeguards.

Sorry, but that's not at all a logical or applicable analogy. People knowingly and willfully choose to assume any potential risks which may be associated with entering a pool or a hot tub at a timeshare facility --- with pertinent warnings regarding potential "risks" (and a liability disclaimer) usually very prominently and permanently posted there). Iinsurance may be be applicable to "cover" some amenity use issues --- at least in the absence of any overt acts of HOA negligence anyhow.

However, people don't knowingly and willfully choose to become exposed against their will, to health hazards (e.g., allergens like animal dander) whose presence they cannot even see, since "Fluffy" is no longer physically present. Only "Fluffy"'s unwelcome dander aftermath still remains on site for the next lucky occupant to "enjoy".

Moreover, you seem to conveniently overlook (or just willfully choose to ignore) the ownership aspect of a timeshare unit. An allergic owner has the indisputable right to not be exposed or subjected to health hazards (e.g., animal dander allergens) knowingly introduced to the interior of the unit / week that s/he owns.

Fortunately, adoption of a "pet friendly" practice at any existing, independent timeshare facility would require a majority vote of the ownership vote in order to authorize such a radical change in policy. I know with the certainty of the sunrise "that ain't ever gonna happen" at any of the small, independent facilities at which we own time, so I don't know why I would be personally concerned or worried --- or even bothering to identify and discuss the relevant facts or potential pitfalls on this subject.

The allergy lawsuit theory really doesn't carry much weight.

You can't possibly be serious in making such an absurd statement. It's not a "theory"; it is a simple fact of life in litigious modern day America. You might want to find a legal reference somewhere and look up the term "treble damages", then come back here and try to state with a straight face that a huge medical bill and associated, compensable (but entirely avoidable) "pain and suffering" award (the direct consequence and result of overt but avoidable HOA negiligence) --- and all the time and legal costs incurred on both sides of the inevitable litigation "really doesn't carry much weight". Then again, maybe you're just pulling my leg with such a ridiculous statement? Maybe it's just offered in jest, in a 'tongue in cheek' attempt at humor? :shrug:

For the record, I've had dogs my entire life (although admittedly, I greatly dislike cats). I don't personally have any allergies. German Shepherds are my favorite breed, despite their high-maintenance nature. That much clearly stated, sitting on a timeshare BOD / HOA and having several decades of legal background, experience and observations perhaps combine to give me a slightly different (maybe even biased) perspective. I won't try to "convert" you to my way of thinking, but please don't insult my input by so casually dismissing its' indisputable reality with "it really doesn't carry much weight". You would be very surprised, maybe shocked, if you witnessed first hand just how much weight these kinds of situations can carry (and cost) in a court case. A "many zeros" judgement or settlement could seriously jeopardize the financial viability of a small, independent resort; its' HOA would be clearly irresponsible and outright negligent to ever allow any such unnecessary exposure and vulnerability.

In any event, I respect the health and well being of all my other fellow (...albeit non-pet people) timeshare owners and I fully respect the fact that they just want to use and enjoy their facility without Fido or Fluffy (or their residual aftermath; visible, olfactory or otherwise) on site at any time for any reason --- even momentarily.
 
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BocaBoy

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People are allergic to more than pets. Be careful going down that road. The next thing you know a lot more than pets could be banned. ;)

The problem with pets (like smoking) is that the allergens remain after the guest has checked out. When combined with the maintenance cost issue, banning pets is a no-brainer for me.
 

dougp26364

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The problem with pets (like smoking) is that the allergens remain after the guest has checked out. When combined with the maintenance cost issue, banning pets is a no-brainer for me.

As to expense, that's solved with the pet fee. As to allergens, that's solved with proper cleaning, which is also paid for with the pet fee. If the resort allows pets it's their obligation and responsiblity to not only anticipate the additional cost in cleaning and charge appropriately but to make certain that the proper cleaning is done, and that includes laundering the bedspread, comforter and or duvet. If I were running a resort that was pet friendly or had pet friendly units, I'd make all units that are pet friendly carpet free and have all leather furniture as well. But that's just me.

Banning pets is a no brainer to some because they don't want to spend time at a hotel or timeshare with pets, which is fine, I get that. All I'm saying is that there is a market for both but, when a timeshare allows pets, the must notify potential guests that they are pet friendly, even if it's pet friendly for owners only.

Now if you really want to go down the allergy issue, what do you suggest be done about the ADA requirement that service animals be allowed at all resorts? You'll never be completely animal free at any resort, even those that don't allow them. There is no such thing as a no-brainer for everyone, just individuals.
 
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klpca

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As to expense, that's solved with the pet fee. As to allergens, that's solved with proper cleaning, which is also paid for with the pet fee. If the resort allows pets it's their obligation and responsiblity to not only anticipate the additional cost in cleaning and charge appropriately but to make certain that the proper cleaning is done, and that includes laundering the bedspread, comforter and or duvet. If I were running a resort that was pet friendly or had pet friendly units, I'd make all units that are pet friendly carpet free and have all leather furniture as well. But that's just me.

Banning pets is a no brainer to some because they don't want to spend time at a hotel or timeshare with pets, which is fine, I get that. All I'm saying is that there is a market for both but, when a timeshare allows pets, the must notify potential guests that they are pet friendly, even if it's pet friendly for owners only.

Now if you really want to go down the allergy issue, what do you suggest be done about the ADA requirement that service animals be allowed at all resorts? You'll never be completely animal free at any resort, even those that don't allow them. There is no such thing as a no-brainer for everyone, just individuals.

My concern is that the pet fee isn't going to cover the actual costs.
 

dougp26364

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My concern is that the pet fee isn't going to cover the actual costs.

A legitimate concern but, that's a different discussion. That one has to be taken up with the owners and the HOA in the form of, where is the money going and what "extra" cleaning is the money buying. Exchangers can only decided to, or not to, exchange into pet friendly resorts.

For now all we can hope for, ask or demand is that resorts that allow pets make it known that pets will be at the resort. That way one can make a decision to visit or not to visit that resort. If you have a concern the real extra cleaning gets done then a pet friendly resort should likely be avoided.
 

dougp26364

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Sorry, but that's not at all a logical or applicable analogy. People knowingly and willfully choose to assume any potential risks which may be associated with entering a pool or a hot tub at a timeshare facility --- with pertinent warnings regarding potential "risks" (and a liability disclaimer) usually very prominently and permanently posted there). Iinsurance may be be applicable to "cover" some amenity use issues --- at least in the absence of any overt acts of HOA negligence anyhow.

However, people don't knowingly and willfully choose to become exposed against their will, to health hazards (e.g., allergens like animal dander) whose presence they cannot even see, since "Fluffy" is no longer physically present. Only "Fluffy"'s unwelcome dander aftermath still remains on site for the next lucky occupant to "enjoy".

Moreover, you seem to conveniently overlook (or just willfully choose to ignore) the ownership aspect of a timeshare unit. An allergic owner has the indisputable right to not be exposed or subjected to health hazards (e.g., animal dander allergens) knowingly introduced to the interior of the unit / week that s/he owns.

Fortunately, adoption of a "pet friendly" practice at any existing, independent timeshare facility would require a majority vote of the ownership vote in order to authorize such a radical change in policy. I know with the certainty of the sunrise "that ain't ever gonna happen" at any of the small, independent facilities at which we own time, so I don't know why I would be personally concerned or worried --- or even bothering to identify and discuss the relevant facts or potential pitfalls on this subject.



You can't possibly be serious in making such an absurd statement. It's not a "theory"; it is a simple fact of life in litigious modern day America. You might want to find a legal reference somewhere and look up the term "treble damages", then come back here and state (with a astraight face) that a huge medical bill and the associated, compensable (but entirely avoidable) "pain and suffering" award (the direct consequence and result of overt but avoidable HOA negiligence) --- and all the time and legal costs incurred on both sides of the inevitable litigation "really doesn't carry much weight". Then again, maybe you're just pulling my leg with such a ridiculous statement? Maybe it's just offered in jest, in a 'tongue in cheek' attempt at humor? :shrug:

For the record, I've had dogs my entire life (although admittedly, I greatly dislike cats). I don't personally have any allergies. German Shepherds are my favorite breed, despite their high-maintenance nature. That much clearly stated, sitting on a timeshare BOD / HOA and having several decades of legal background, experience and observations perhaps combine to give me a slightly different (maybe even biased) perspective. I won't try to "convert" you to my way of thinking, but please don't insult my input by so casually dismissing its' indisputable reality with "it really doesn't carry much weight". You might be very surprised, maybe shocked, if you could witness first hand just how much weight these kinds of situations can carry (and cost) in a court case. A "many zeros" judgement or settlement could seriously jeopardize the financial viability of a small, independent resort; its' HOA would be irresponsible and outright negligent to ever allow any such unnecessary exposure and vulnerability.

In any event, I respect the health and well being of all my other fellow (...albeit non-pet people) timeshare owners and I fully respect the fact that they just want to use and enjoy their facility without Fido or Fluffy (or their residual aftermath; visible, olfactory or otherwise) on site at any time for any reason --- even momentarily.

All of this and I'll try to take it down to bite size pieces.

1. Pets exist. Hotels allow pets and a few timeshares allow pets. They have pet policies to protect them in the same way they have policies for other amenities (pools, fitness rooms, spa's et...) where potential liablity exists. Because risk is all around us the arguement of liablity is a non-starter.

2. You are relatively self assured if you believe you will always be in the majority and that none of the timeshare resorts you own at could ever become pet friendly. At one time smokers were in the majority. Now I would venture to say the majority of timeshares and hotels in America are non-smoking. You use to be able to smoke on airplanes because smokers were the majority. Times change, rules change and people change.

3. Why do I have to keep saying it's very important that resorts which are pet friendly must notify potential guest or have it somewhere in the reservation process? The only way a guest could say they didn't know is if they weren't told. If they aren't told, then I'm in agreement with you, there could be a liablity issue.

4. I would argue an allergic owner has no undisputable rights other than those agreed to in the original contract signed with the resort. If that contract gives resort management the right to change rules under certain conditions, the individual owners rights go out the window. In the case of timeshare, majority often rules. The reality is that, in society, there are very few undisputable rights for an individual.

5. The damages you claim are possible have to prove negligence on the part of the resort. Who is negligent? The pet owner who did not control their pet or the resort, which has specific rules in place directing pet owners? As to the expenses of such a case, that would likely be passed onto the insurance company, which undoubtedly will increase their rates based on their view of the risks involved. This isn't likely to affect the overall financial health of the resort. I have no legal background but I don't have background in liability.

I guess we might disagree on who owns a resort? The timeshare owners or the management company. It is my belief that owners have the deeded right to occupy space at the resort and the management company essentially owns the rest. owners own deeded occupancy rights. They do not own real property. Only through deeded occupancy rights is there any claim available should the property be sold or destroyed at some point in the future. Therefore owners may not have all the rights you assume past those granted them in the original contract, which likely includes a provision to make changes in the rules if certain conditions are met, including but not limited to smoking, pets and provided amenties at the resort. A resort I own at in CO recently ammended their rules, without my knowingly voting for/against it, to allow marijuna to be smoked on balconies.

Reality is what it is. Neither of us are completely right or completely wrong. The reality is some resorts allow pets, some don't. It's important to know which do allow pets so no one is "unknowingly" exposed to allergens. People choose hotels based on pet policy. It needs to be the same with timeshare.
 
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Laurie

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fwiw, most timeshares in Europe (that we've been to) do allow pets, and I think hotels too. It's the normal there.
 

hk4481

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I certainly hope they don't start to allow pets in timeshares because I am terribly allergic to cats & dogs - I break out in hives, my eyes itch & swell, and I close up and can't breathe. It's tough enough that I have to look for hotels that don't allow pets, I hope I don't have to do the same for condos.
 
L

laurac260

Mixed feelings about this...

I am not the biggest dog lover in the world. Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike dogs, in fact we have an adorable 7 month old Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier that has totally worked her way into the hearts of this family. Before we had her, my motto was, "I love OTHER PEOPLE'S dogs." Meaning, I don't necessarily need one of my own. Alas, I was outnumbered. Thankfully we found a dog that fits right in to our family dynamic. But I can say, with much honesty, that I don't find everyone's little scruffy as adorable as THEY do. And I appreciate that there are folks that don't find my little scruffy as adorable as we do, despite the fact that she is pretty darn cute.

Some folks are afraid of dogs. Some folks are allergic to dogs, and some just hate dogs, for whatever reason. My kids are allergic to dogs (the breed we have is considered to be of the hypo allergenic variety, but most are not). Many dog breeds cause my daughter's asthma to flair up.

Part of me is sad that we cannot take our little doggie on our trips, and part of me is thankful that YOU can't take your little doggie on our trips. It cuts both ways.

Just my humble opinion, for what it's worth.
 
L

laurac260

I certainly hope they don't start to allow pets in timeshares because I am terribly allergic to cats & dogs - I break out in hives, my eyes itch & swell, and I close up and can't breathe. It's tough enough that I have to look for hotels that don't allow pets, I hope I don't have to do the same for condos.
Sometime in the past few years I recall checking in to a hotel, only to find out they were "pet friendly". I asked the front desk person to make sure she put us in a room that had not been pet occupied, assuming that they would control these rooms as the smoking rooms had been controlled in the past. I was quite disappointed to learn that this was not the case.

Kind of like nut allergies, I remember not really cluing in to it, until we learned our son is allergic to tree nuts. There's inconveniences, and there are "life threatening issues". For me, being in a hotel room that had once had a dog is at worst, an inconvenience. For others, it is potentially life threatening.
 

Egret1986

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I'm in the same camp.

I am not the biggest dog lover in the world. Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike dogs, in fact we have an adorable 7 month old Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier that has totally worked her way into the hearts of this family. Before we had her, my motto was, "I love OTHER PEOPLE'S dogs." Meaning, I don't necessarily need one of my own. Alas, I was outnumbered. Thankfully we found a dog that fits right in to our family dynamic. But I can say, with much honesty, that I don't find everyone's little scruffy as adorable as THEY do. And I appreciate that there are folks that don't find my little scruffy as adorable as we do, despite the fact that she is pretty darn cute.

Some folks are afraid of dogs. Some folks are allergic to dogs, and some just hate dogs, for whatever reason. My kids are allergic to dogs (the breed we have is considered to be of the hypo allergenic variety, but most are not). Many dog breeds cause my daughter's asthma to flair up.

Part of me is sad that we cannot take our little doggie on our trips, and part of me is thankful that YOU can't take your little doggie on our trips. It cuts both ways.

Just my humble opinion, for what it's worth.

Everything you said sum's up my feelings. Everything.

On first read of the changes to the pet policy; cool.

But after reading the opinions on the thread; what were they thinking? :eek:
 

Egret1986

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Yes, I guess it's all about "cluing in".

Sometime in the past few years I recall checking in to a hotel, only to find out they were "pet friendly". I asked the front desk person to make sure she put us in a room that had not been pet occupied, assuming that they would control these rooms as the smoking rooms had been controlled in the past. I was quite disappointed to learn that this was not the case.

Kind of like nut allergies, I remember not really cluing in to it, until we learned our son is allergic to tree nuts. There's inconveniences, and there are "life threatening issues". For me, being in a hotel room that had once had a dog is at worst, an inconvenience. For others, it is potentially life threatening.

Yes, I'm surprised, as far as hotels and timeshares that allow pets, that there aren't dedicated rooms and units that are "pet friendly" vs. all rooms and units allowing for pets.
 

silentg

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We stayed at a hotel on I95 in Virginia, we saw it was pet friendly. We asked for a room that had not been occupied by pets. The room was very nice. On our return trip we were put on the same floor a few doors down from the previous room. We saw a man going in to the room we had at first trip with a dog! At least our rooms were clean, with no detection of pets being in there, I was upset that they told me certain rooms were kept pet free. Just told me what I wanted to hear!
TerryC
 

Egret1986

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Another group of resorts that I own at in Virginia Beach just sent out a survey.

Hello Valued Owner,

VSA Resorts is conducting a survey, and your response would be appreciated. This survey is to obtain your feedback regarding pet friendly units being added to all three of the Resorts.


Here is a link to the survey:
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=H3D0DlFUl55EGT3ltCaXEw_3d_3d

This link is uniquely tied to this survey and your email address. Please do not forward this message.


Thanks for your participation!


I haven't opened the survey yet. There is one other timeshare resort, The Colony, that allows owners "only" to bring pets for the week.
 
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