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Westin in St. Maartin

cyntravel

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Hi
I am looking for an owner of Westin St. Maartin Property to ask questions about their ownership likes and dislikes.

I visited the property about a week ago and am interested in your feedback.

Thanks

Cyn
 

LisaRex

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The Dawn Beach Club is a timeshare that shares facilities with a Starwood hotel, the Westin Dawn Beach. It isn't in the Starwood Vacation Network, so if you buy at Dawn Beach Club, realize that you won't be able to internally exchange to Starwood timeshares. (You could exchange via II, but you will not enjoy a Starwood priority.)

I've never stayed there, though I did spend the afternoon at Westin Dawn Beach (hotel) this past January. (The house that I rented was in Dawn Beach Estates, a gated community which overlooked Dawn Beach.)

The beach was beautiful, but the ocean was very rough the week we stayed. My husband was the only one who attempted to swim Dawn Beach and the current carried him down the entire length of the bay in no time.

The winds were correspondingly fierce, especially at night. I'm talking blow-your-hair-horizontal wind. Even though the temperature was in the 90s, the breeze made it very comfortable; however al fresco dining on our patio was impossible most of the week.

We ate lunch at Westin's outdoor cafe and it was both reasonably priced (esp for a resort) and tasty. The beach facilities were clean and the staff was very nice.

Though not on the calmer side of the island, DB is centrally situated. It's right on the French border, and very near Oyster Pond marina, with its shops and restaurants. Famous Orient Beach is about a 10 minute drive. You can get to the Great Salt Pond (grocery stores and restaurants) in about 10 minutes, Simpson Bay in about 20-30 minutes (depending on traffic), and Grand Case in about 25 minutes. We spent the majority of our days on the protected French beaches, such as Friars Beach and Anse Marsel.

Now for the downside. Even though we were in a double gated house (gated community and gated driveway), we were warned to lock all the doors at all times, as thieves were known to sneak in and steal electronics, even when people were occupying the home. Also, on the Tuesday of our trip, a fatal robbery happened right down the street from the Westin, just a few doors down from Mr. Busby's restaurant. We actually passed the crime scene on our way to Grand Case. Apparently, a European couple had rented a home, and three local kids tried to rob them as they were unloading their belongings. The tourists fought back. One was a body builder who grabbed one of the thieves and held him while the others fled. By the time the police arrived, the kid had stopped breathing, and was ultimately pronounced DOA. To say that this was unsettling is an understatement. We feared that the local gangs would target tourists for retribution, a fear that was thankfully unfounded.

That evening, we attended the Grand Case bazaar, a weekly Tuesday evening event, where local vendors display their wares on outdoor tables. There are tons of both formal and informal restaurants to choose from as well, and you can walk around with drinks and browse. It's loads of fun, but I couldn't completely relax with the extreme police presence. I'm talking dozens of police, complete with flak jackets, and guns. When we stepped outside of the roped off main street, we were discreetly escorted to our cars by the gendarmes.

I mention this because Oyster Pond was a location mentioned by many locals as being particularly unsafe for personal property crimes. They blamed the slap-on-the-wrist mentality of the Dutch police. This may have all changed for the better as a result of this fatality, but if I were to travel to St. Maarten again (and I would return, as there is a ton to love about SXM), I'd stay in the more touristy areas. Dawn Beach/Oyster Pond is too remote to command a huge police presence, so this is where thieves will continue to target.
 
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DavidnRobin

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Just want to make sure you know that property is not a Starwood timeshare.

It is very telling is that people (e.g. CJ) selling these Dawn Beach Club timeshares pawn them off as Westin owned - which is not true and they know this.

There is a thread (somewhat contentious) on the Carib forum about DBC.
 
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DeniseM

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Yes - we had a gentleman who was quite pleased with himself for making a large purchase at the DBC, and he got rather angry with this forum, when we informed him that it wasn't in the SVN. After a rather heated debate, he left and didn't return.

He emailed me privately that he was a timeshare expert, and that I could learn something if I'd listen to him. ;)
 

cubigbird

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I would love to see SVO acquire Westin Dawn Beach into SVN but that's probably wishful thinking.
 

Bob808

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I do not understand no expansion of SVN. A topic frequently discussed here.
 

DeniseM

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Corporate reports seem to indicate that Starwood is going in a different direction.

Also, at this particular resort, someone is making a fortune selling the timeshares, and I'm sure they have no interest in handing that over to Starwood to sell. If they did, then Starwood might be interested.
 
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cubigbird

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Denise what do you mean by "different direction?"
 

DeniseM

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Denise what do you mean by "different direction?"

Their most recent corporate reports (discussed on TUG) indicated they have no plans to build more timeshares in the near future.
 

cubigbird

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Their most recent corporate reports (discussed on TUG) indicated they have no plans to build more timeshares in the near future.

I wonder why?? If they are selling out of inventory (as they say they are) you'd think they'd have to expand??? It seems like there is a lot of money they are missing out on. I just hope they aren't eventually looking to get out of the timeshare business. I enjoy SVN and would love to see some more resorts and new resale opportunities, like Westin Dawn Beach, come into the network. If they want to be competitive with the likes of Marriott, HGVC, Wyndham etc they will have to expand, else they lower to the ranks of the lesser, more irrelevant systems like Hyatt, HIVC etc...
 

DeniseM

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Financing is harder to come by these days, property in prime locations is very expensive, local governments make building far more difficult and expensive than in the past, and they are making more money doing other things.

The 3rd property on Maui is a perfect example - local Govt. has made it impossible to build there.
 

cubigbird

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They aren't making money by reselling ROFR since only a few properties fall in that category. You'd think with more properties and an opportunity to churn ROFR they would be making even more. They should explore areas where govt isn't so difficult.
 

DeniseM

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They aren't making money by reselling ROFR since only a few properties fall in that category. You'd think with more properties and an opportunity to churn ROFR they would be making even more. They should explore areas where govt isn't so difficult.

They have many other ways to recover units to sell at full sticker - like foreclosures and defaults at resorts that don't have ROFR. For instance, the BOD at SDO handed them all their defaults and foreclosures on a silver platter...

Areas that are less expensive to develop, are also likely to also be less attractive to buyers - those two characteristics go hand-in-hand.

They are making a fortune doing resort management - without the overhead of resort development.
 
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stevio99

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DBC is in a pretty decent location. You can sometimes trade in through interval. It's located near orient beach and philips burg. I stayed at Maho Beach, and it was a good bit of driving to get to other places.
 

czar

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They have many other ways to recover units to sell at full sticker - like foreclosures and defaults at resorts that don't have ROFR. For instance, the BOD at SDO handed them all their defaults and foreclosures on a silver platter...

Areas that are less expensive to develop, are also likely to also be less attractive to buyers - those two characteristics go hand-in-hand.

They are making a fortune doing resort management - without the overhead of resort development.

That makes sense but sooner or later it seems like this will catch up with them. I was trying to find somewhere to stay in HHI and here are several Marriott resorts there. I love the Starwood brand and quality, but I hope that they'd think about doing something in the near term - even if it's converting current property to TS units.
 

SMHarman

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They have many other ways to recover units to sell at full sticker - like foreclosures and defaults at resorts that don't have ROFR. For instance, the BOD at SDO handed them all their defaults and foreclosures on a silver platter...

Areas that are less expensive to develop, are also likely to also be less attractive to buyers - those two characteristics go hand-in-hand.

They are making a fortune doing resort management - without the overhead of resort development.
Denise. The BOD got those units paying MF from Starwood at that point so it was not all bad.
 

DavidnRobin

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A shaky house of cards indeed...

They're making money no doubt... courtesy of us
 
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cubigbird

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That makes sense but sooner or later it seems like this will catch up with them. I was trying to find somewhere to stay in HHI and here are several Marriott resorts there. I love the Starwood brand and quality, but I hope that they'd think about doing something in the near term - even if it's converting current property to TS units.

It is a numbers game on growth of inventory. Eventually it will come closer and closer to drying up (but never completely). There will always be those in default but the more you sell defaulted or foreclosed units the higher the chance you take in a good payer that is happy with their weeks leading inventory to slowly decline. As previously stated above it will catch up to them eventually leading to a decline in sales forcing expansion. They are making lots of $$ off us but it all goes back to sales. I agree I'd like to see Dawn Beach or other locations converted to TS. I have stayed in many SPG hotels that I wouldn't mind returning to with a TS stay.
 

SMHarman

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I wonder why?? If they are selling out of inventory (as they say they are) you'd think they'd have to expand??? It seems like there is a lot of money they are missing out on. I just hope they aren't eventually looking to get out of the timeshare business. I enjoy SVN and would love to see some more resorts and new resale opportunities, like Westin Dawn Beach, come into the network. If they want to be competitive with the likes of Marriott, HGVC, Wyndham etc they will have to expand, else they lower to the ranks of the lesser, more irrelevant systems like Hyatt, HIVC etc...
Starwood declares it runs an asset light hotel business. It started as a company setting up hotel real estate investment trusts.
Timeshare is low capital once built out and sold but before then the risk is higher than a hotel build. During sale you have an asset you can't easy put into a trust etc.
As others said. HOT can sell out but still get their management vig.
 
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hefleycatz

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The Dawn Beach Club is a timeshare that shares facilities with a Starwood hotel, the Westin Dawn Beach. It isn't in the Starwood Vacation Network, so if you buy at Dawn Beach Club, realize that you won't be able to internally exchange to Starwood timeshares. (You could exchange via II, but you will not enjoy a Starwood priority.)

I've never stayed there, though I did spend the afternoon at Westin Dawn Beach (hotel) this past January. (The house that I rented was in Dawn Beach Estates, a gated community which overlooked Dawn Beach.)

The beach was beautiful, but the ocean was very rough the week we stayed. My husband was the only one who attempted to swim Dawn Beach and the current carried him down the entire length of the bay in no time.

The winds were correspondingly fierce, especially at night. I'm talking blow-your-hair-horizontal wind. Even though the temperature was in the 90s, the breeze made it very comfortable; however al fresco dining on our patio was impossible most of the week.

We ate lunch at Westin's outdoor cafe and it was both reasonably priced (esp for a resort) and tasty. The beach facilities were clean and the staff was very nice.

Though not on the calmer side of the island, DB is centrally situated. It's right on the French border, and very near Oyster Pond marina, with its shops and restaurants. Famous Orient Beach is about a 10 minute drive. You can get to the Great Salt Pond (grocery stores and restaurants) in about 10 minutes, Simpson Bay in about 20-30 minutes (depending on traffic), and Grand Case in about 25 minutes. We spent the majority of our days on the protected French beaches, such as Friars Beach and Anse Marsel.

Now for the downside. Even though we were in a double gated house (gated community and gated driveway), we were warned to lock all the doors at all times, as thieves were known to sneak in and steal electronics, even when people were occupying the home. Also, on the Tuesday of our trip, a fatal robbery happened right down the street from the Westin, just a few doors down from Mr. Busby's restaurant. We actually passed the crime scene on our way to Grand Case. Apparently, a European couple had rented a home, and three local kids tried to rob them as they were unloading their belongings. The tourists fought back. One was a body builder who grabbed one of the thieves and held him while the others fled. By the time the police arrived, the kid had stopped breathing, and was ultimately pronounced DOA. To say that this was unsettling is an understatement. We feared that the local gangs would target tourists for retribution, a fear that was thankfully unfounded.

That evening, we attended the Grand Case bazaar, a weekly Tuesday evening event, where local vendors display their wares on outdoor tables. There are tons of both formal and informal restaurants to choose from as well, and you can walk around with drinks and browse. It's loads of fun, but I couldn't completely relax with the extreme police presence. I'm talking dozens of police, complete with flak jackets, and guns. When we stepped outside of the roped off main street, we were discreetly escorted to our cars by the gendarmes.

I mention this because Oyster Pond was a location mentioned by many locals as being particularly unsafe for personal property crimes. They blamed the slap-on-the-wrist mentality of the Dutch police. This may have all changed for the better as a result of this fatality, but if I were to travel to St. Maarten again (and I would return, as there is a ton to love about SXM), I'd stay in the more touristy areas. Dawn Beach/Oyster Pond is too remote to command a huge police presence, so this is where thieves will continue to target.


Have you been back since? Is it still unsafe on this side? I just got an exchange for my daughters honeymoon, but don't want them in an unsafe situation.

Lee
 

BLUE AYES

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My wife and I spent a lovely week in February at the Westin Dawn Beach Hotel.
The island was great and we always felt safe. I rented a car and drove everywhere. The timeshare hawkers work from an office inside the hotel and start accosting you in the parking lot. Because of the timeshare name and the fact that their office is 100 feet from the hotel registration and they do their presentations in the bar area in front of registration, many first timers believe this is part of SVO.
 
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