can my ex-spouse sell his half of our timeshare?

theo · Jul 31, 2014

Talent312 said:
In Florida, a married couple can hold title as a tenancy by the entireties, which means both own the whole, and in that case, both have to sign. However, when the couple divorce, it's converted to another type of co-ownership -- a tenancy in common (unless the parties re-deed it to themselves as a joint tenants "with right of survivorship" -- not likely in a divorce).

As tenants in common, each owns a 50% undivided interest (unless otherwise specified). Each is free to sell, mortgage or divest themselves of their 50% interest without the consent or involvement of the other. Thus, she could easily find herself with a new undesireable "partner" in their venture. She can also deed her interest to someone else. She could also sue for "partition," meaning a court-ordered sale and division of proceeds.

I don't disagree with your above quoted observations, but I respectfully submit that it is both relevant and important to note that (according to the OP, at least as I understood her) their mutual agreement even upon divorce was to knowingly, willfully and deliberately have the ownership remain as tenants in the entirety.

ttt · Jul 31, 2014

Talent312 said:
To all those saying that both co-owners are required to sign a deed: I say, not necessarily.

In Florida, a married couple can hold title as a tenancy by the entireties, which means both own the whole, and in that case, both have to sign. However, when the couple divorce, it's converted to another type of co-ownership -- a tenancy in common (unless the parties re-deed it to themselves as a joint tenants "with right of survivorship" -- not likely in a divorce).

As tenants in common, each owns a 50% undivided interest (unless otherwise specified). Each is free to sell, mortgage or divest themselves of their 50% interest without the consent or involvement of the other. Thus, she could easily find herself with a new undesireable "partner" in their venture. She can also deed her interest to someone else. She could also sue for "partition," meaning a court-ordered sale and division of proceeds.

<Just sayin'>
.

If title is held as JTROS, it can not be sold without both signatures. This is probably the case. However, if title is held as Tenants in Common, each party is free to sell their half....

bogey21 · Jul 31, 2014

Ask him to send you the proposed Deed for you to sign. You may never get it. If you do, then suggest that you would rather buy his half or sell him your half depending on which you want.

Reason is to avoid future hassles re paying Maintenance Fees or determining who will use the Week every year.

George

Rent_Share · Jul 31, 2014

Doesn't the divorce attorney have some liability for leaving a debt in both names ? The ongoing maintenance fee contract ?

SMHarman · Jul 31, 2014

Rent_Share said:
Doesn't the divorce attorney have some liability for leaving a debt in both names ? The ongoing maintenance fee contract ?

The OP already said this is as intended in their divorce.
Also even if it were not if both parties forgot to mention an assett or liability how would the attorney know? Telepathy?

Talent312 · Jul 31, 2014

theo said:
...their mutual agreement even upon divorce was to knowingly, willfully and deliberately have the ownership remain as tenants in the entirety.

OP -- "[W]e didn't use an attorney because we had no other property to divide."

Whatever their intent and to be technical:
(1) In Florida, a "tenancy in the entirety" can only be held by a married couple.
Unmarried couples cannot have one. A gay couple cannot have one (not in Florida, yet).

(2) They can have either a "tenancy in common" or a "joint tenancy w/right of survivorship."
Absent some document which expressly says "WROS," the default is a tenancy in common.
.

uscav8r · Jul 31, 2014

can my exspouse sell his half of our timeshare?

Talent312 said:
OP -- "[W]e didn't use an attorney because we had no other property to divide."

Whatever their intent and to be technical:
(1) In Florida, a "tenancy in the entirety" can only be held by a married couple.
Unmarried couples cannot have one. A gay couple cannot have one (not in Florida, yet).

(2) They can have either a "tenancy in common" or a "joint tenancy w/right of survivorship."
Absent some document which expressly says "WROS," the default is a tenancy in common.
.

So you're saying, "there's a chance!"

Such a nuanced issue... Time for OP to buy out or sell out, or at least solicit professional advice to determine her full range of options.

It's threads like these that make me think a Legal forum for initial pro bono advice from actual lawyers familiar with TS and real estate could be of value to the TUG community. Of course, each state has its own rules and regulations, so such a forum would certainly get plenty of new traffic.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

theo · Jul 31, 2014

As always, the devil is in the (...currently missing) details...

Talent312 said:
Whatever their intent and to be technical:
(1) In Florida, a "tenancy in the entirety" can only be held by a married couple.
Unmarried couples cannot have one. A gay couple cannot have one (not in Florida, yet).

(2) They can have either a "tenancy in common" or a "joint tenancy w/right of survivorship."
Absent some document which expressly says "WROS," the default is a tenancy in common.
.

Certainly important, valid and directly relevant points.

However, is it not possible (perhaps even likely) that the current deed reflects right now, even as we discuss it without actually knowing with any real certainty, that JTWROS ownership language is actually reflected in the deed? And if that is in fact the case, will not two (i.e., both) signatures still be required (even post -- divorce) for any new deed to be prepared, mutually signed and officially recorded in order to create and formalize any different ownership than that which is currently in place?

It would certainly be helpful if the OP had provided more specific details on the language of the existing deed, absent which we're all speculating a bit here, no? :shrug:

pacodemountainside · Jul 31, 2014

I still maintain when one has a specific legal problem and may not want to share a lot of personal information on a public web site their best bet is to ask local bar association for a referral to local attorney specializing in their type of problem. They can present with all relevant data and get expert opinion.

Typically costs $50-$100.

It appears OP is in New York and property,
FL so attorney probably would need to consult with associate in Florida.

n777lt · Jul 31, 2014

Agree with pacodemountainside. Too many missing/ambiguous pieces here to get much useful advice.

TINLA but: it's time to get an attorney, and there are plenty in NY State, if that's where OP is, with associates in FL. Best to go with one of those to minimize duplication of effort. Chalk it up to part of the expense of the divorce, since you decided not to use an attorney then.

theo · Jul 31, 2014

Yessa!

n777lt said:
Too many missing/ambiguous pieces here to get much useful advice.

TINLA but: it's time to get an attorney, and there are plenty in NY State, if that's where OP is, with associates in FL. Best to go with one of those to minimize duplication of effort. Chalk it up to part of the expense of the divorce, since you decided not to use an attorney then.

Yup --- I agree 100%. Better late than never; this "ownership" matter is certainly not going to just magically now sort itself out on its' own.

optimist · Jul 31, 2014

Ocean61 said:
Thanks, all very enlightening - it is in Key West, but I believe it's Broward County because that's where the Hyatt's holding corporation is located. It's week 37 (last week in August) and the Hyatt point value is 3200 (again, going from memory here - we never wanted to trade the week in because we love it there). I really don't want to get rid of it, I would much rather buy him out.
That leads back to how to determine a fair price for doing so...?

If the value of what you have is 3200 points, then you own two weeks.

theo · Jul 31, 2014

optimist said:
If the value of what you have is 3200 points, then you own two weeks.

OP previously indicated that only a single week (specifically, a week 37) is involved and OP also indicated that the 3200 points figure was cited "from memory".

Since even a prime winter week at Hyatt Sunset Harbor (also in Key West, but better located) is worth considerably fewer than 3200 points (afaik, anyhow), then I'm guessing that the points figure cited "from memory" is most likely just incorrect. That's certainly understandable, since OP also indicated that the week at issue is always used and not traded, so the associated points value would not likely be a relevant enough detail to store away in the grey matter for immediate accurate retrieval. :shrug:

can my ex-spouse sell his half of our timeshare?

theo

TUG Review Crew: Veteran

ttt

bogey21

Rent_Share

SMHarman

Talent312

TUG Review Crew: Veteran

uscav8r

TUG Review Crew: Expert

theo

TUG Review Crew: Veteran

pacodemountainside

n777lt

theo

TUG Review Crew: Veteran

optimist

theo

TUG Review Crew: Veteran