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Wyndham in PCB almost got me!

jclaybrooks

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Hi everyone I'm new here. My family and I just got back from Panama City Beach this week. My best friend and I have birthdays two days apart so our wives decided that a nice trip to the beach would be a great birthday surprise.

Our wives have a mutual friend who is a Wyndahm Platinum VIP and gave them the points so we were able to stay the weekend for free. She actually warned them going in that they would try to sell us and that it would be hard to say no.

When we arrived for check-in on Friday my we were "invited" to breakfast Saturday morning and just had to leave a $20 "deposit" to secure our spot. I was aware that we would be pitched but I had never been in a time share sales presentation before. We all agreed (my friend, his wife, my wife and myself) that under no circumstances were we going to purchase ANYTHING! We had our minds made up (little did we know how persuasive our salesman would be).

Long story short Matt (our salesman) began writing down numbers and dates and before I knew it my wife was giving me the look. I have to be completely honest Matt was EXCEPTIONAL he was upfront and honest and he built awesome rapport with all four of us. We had actually met him the night before in the pool area and he told us he lived at the property but we had no idea he worked there. I got the sense that we were about to collectively change our minds.

During the tour he took us to the 22nd floor and showed us a beautiful 2 bed 2 bath unit. The view was incredible I have never seen water that shade of blue. On the way back to the presentation area we actually ran into a VIP Platinum member we asked her point blank her thoughts on the program and she was very forthcoming with Matt standing right there. She said that it was an awesome benefit and that she and her family vacation 6-8 weeks out of the year. She also said that she would advise to start slow don't rush into anything we weren't 110% comfortable with. She said points could always be added later but to try things out get our "feet wet" and if we really liked it then we could work our way up to whatever level we felt was appropriate for our travel/vacation needs.

She actually helped Matt and gave him a lot of credibility. We were back at the table and he excused himself so we could talk amongst ourselves. I have to admit it was my friends wife that brought us all back to reality. She said that we had made the commitment to not buy anything and even though we were all wavering in that decision we needed to stand by it. Her words strengthened our resolve and we had the pleasure of trying to shut the door that Matt could see his excellent skills had opened. He had an answer for every single rebuttal, he was GOOD! He was like a pit-bull but never in a rude or pushy way just laying out the facts and reminding us of the numbers and our love of travel. (We had made the mistake of telling him about all the previous trips we had taken together and apart in the last 3 years. Bahamas, Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, Atlanta, Miami etc.)

We were passed on to the "move heaven and earth to change your mind team" and finally got out of the sales room without purchasing anything. It was hard because the deal seemed almost too good to be true. The one thing that bothered me was the thought in the back of my mind. I had seen late night commercials about companies that assist in selling unwanted time shares. A part of me wanted to know how much the package we were presented would cost on the secondary market.

We all enjoyed the rest of our time there and talked about how great an opportunity it was. As soon as I got back home I began a Google rampage to find all the information I could on Wyndham and purchasing time shares on the secondary market. I found several websites that had listings and when I did the math I couldn't believe the numbers.

I should probably lay out what Matt was offering us. To be clear we had stressed to him that we wanted the bare minimum package especially after he had shown us the benefits of using RCI and meeting the woman who was a Platinum VIP strengthened our resolve to start with the bare minimum if we made a purchase at all. Both my wife and I felt that the RCI discounted rates alone were worth the price. This is what he drew up for us the dollar amounts aren't exact but very close from what I can remember. For some strange reason we didn't leave with any written numbers.

105k points bi-annually
unlimited RCI usage
purchase price $10,500
$48/month maintenance
Nothing down
about $208 per month

After my Googling I actually found a listing for sale in another Florida property. I contacted the listing broker and explained that we had just returned from a weekend in PCB and that I was very interested in learning more about purchasing Wyndham points on the secondary market. He explained to me the process and told me that even though the prices were a lot lower it would take 120-180 for the sale to be complete because secondary sales is not a high priority for Wyndham. These are the details for the listing.

154k points annually
unlimited RCI usage
Purchase price $1,000
Deed Recording $699
Transfer fee $299
Admin fee $695
Total purchase price
$2693

This all sounds too good to be true! I just found this site (TUGBBS) literally a few hours ago I have been reading but I honestly am starting to get more confused because of what appears to be the technical aspects of using the Wyndham point system. I have some basic questions and I hope some of you more experienced members will help me understand some things.

#1 Will I or will I not be able to use the RCI benefits to get discounted rooms with my Wyndham ownership? I understand that peak times will probably be near impossible and that's fine but If I want to go to a resort in New Mexico in April I should be able to use the RCI program to get discounted rates right?

#2 I understand that I will never be able to reach platinum status with points purchased on the secondary market but do I have to purchase points from the same property to accumulate them or can I mix and match properties as long as they are Wyndham properties?

#3 Should I use a licensed broker to purchase on the secondary market or can I purchase on my own? Basically what are the benefits/disadvantages of working with a broker?

Again I'm brand new to this world of Time Shares and Vacation Points so please bear with me. I appreciate any guidance offered thanks.
 

TUGBrian

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Welcome to TUG, im going to go ahead and move this to the wyndham forum for you so the experts can help you further with your resale purchase.
 

Bigrob

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Hi everyone I'm new here. My family and I just got back from Panama City Beach this week. My best friend and I have birthdays two days apart so our wives decided that a nice trip to the beach would be a great birthday surprise.

Our wives have a mutual friend who is a Wyndahm Platinum VIP and gave them the points so we were able to stay the weekend for free. She actually warned them going in that they would try to sell us and that it would be hard to say no.

When we arrived for check-in on Friday my we were "invited" to breakfast Saturday morning and just had to leave a $20 "deposit" to secure our spot. I was aware that we would be pitched but I had never been in a time share sales presentation before. We all agreed (my friend, his wife, my wife and myself) that under no circumstances were we going to purchase ANYTHING! We had our minds made up (little did we know how persuasive our salesman would be).

Long story short Matt (our salesman) began writing down numbers and dates and before I knew it my wife was giving me the look. I have to be completely honest Matt was EXCEPTIONAL he was upfront and honest and he built awesome rapport with all four of us. We had actually met him the night before in the pool area and he told us he lived at the property but we had no idea he worked there. I got the sense that we were about to collectively change our minds.

During the tour he took us to the 22nd floor and showed us a beautiful 2 bed 2 bath unit. The view was incredible I have never seen water that shade of blue. On the way back to the presentation area we actually ran into a VIP Platinum member we asked her point blank her thoughts on the program and she was very forthcoming with Matt standing right there. She said that it was an awesome benefit and that she and her family vacation 6-8 weeks out of the year. She also said that she would advise to start slow don't rush into anything we weren't 110% comfortable with. She said points could always be added later but to try things out get our "feet wet" and if we really liked it then we could work our way up to whatever level we felt was appropriate for our travel/vacation needs.

She actually helped Matt and gave him a lot of credibility. We were back at the table and he excused himself so we could talk amongst ourselves. I have to admit it was my friends wife that brought us all back to reality. She said that we had made the commitment to not buy anything and even though we were all wavering in that decision we needed to stand by it. Her words strengthened our resolve and we had the pleasure of trying to shut the door that Matt could see his excellent skills had opened. He had an answer for every single rebuttal, he was GOOD! He was like a pit-bull but never in a rude or pushy way just laying out the facts and reminding us of the numbers and our love of travel. (We had made the mistake of telling him about all the previous trips we had taken together and apart in the last 3 years. Bahamas, Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, Atlanta, Miami etc.)

We were passed on to the "move heaven and earth to change your mind team" and finally got out of the sales room without purchasing anything. It was hard because the deal seemed almost too good to be true. The one thing that bothered me was the thought in the back of my mind. I had seen late night commercials about companies that assist in selling unwanted time shares. A part of me wanted to know how much the package we were presented would cost on the secondary market.

We all enjoyed the rest of our time there and talked about how great an opportunity it was. As soon as I got back home I began a Google rampage to find all the information I could on Wyndham and purchasing time shares on the secondary market. I found several websites that had listings and when I did the math I couldn't believe the numbers.

I should probably lay out what Matt was offering us. To be clear we had stressed to him that we wanted the bare minimum package especially after he had shown us the benefits of using RCI and meeting the woman who was a Platinum VIP strengthened our resolve to start with the bare minimum if we made a purchase at all. Both my wife and I felt that the RCI discounted rates alone were worth the price. This is what he drew up for us the dollar amounts aren't exact but very close from what I can remember. For some strange reason we didn't leave with any written numbers.

105k points bi-annually
unlimited RCI usage
purchase price $10,500
$48/month maintenance
Nothing down
about $208 per month

After my Googling I actually found a listing for sale in another Florida property. I contacted the listing broker and explained that we had just returned from a weekend in PCB and that I was very interested in learning more about purchasing Wyndham points on the secondary market. He explained to me the process and told me that even though the prices were a lot lower it would take 120-180 for the sale to be complete because secondary sales is not a high priority for Wyndham. These are the details for the listing.

154k points annually
unlimited RCI usage
Purchase price $1,000
Deed Recording $699
Transfer fee $299
Admin fee $695
Total purchase price
$2693

This all sounds too good to be true! I just found this site (TUGBBS) literally a few hours ago I have been reading but I honestly am starting to get more confused because of what appears to be the technical aspects of using the Wyndham point system. I have some basic questions and I hope some of you more experienced members will help me understand some things.

#1 Will I or will I not be able to use the RCI benefits to get discounted rooms with my Wyndham ownership? I understand that peak times will probably be near impossible and that's fine but If I want to go to a resort in New Mexico in April I should be able to use the RCI program to get discounted rates right?

#2 I understand that I will never be able to reach platinum status with points purchased on the secondary market but do I have to purchase points from the same property to accumulate them or can I mix and match properties as long as they are Wyndham properties?

#3 Should I use a licensed broker to purchase on the secondary market or can I purchase on my own? Basically what are the benefits/disadvantages of working with a broker?

Again I'm brand new to this world of Time Shares and Vacation Points so please bear with me. I appreciate any guidance offered thanks.

Great story. As you will find as you research further, you made the right decision to walk away, despite the fact you had a good salesman who was very convincing. A couple answers to your questions.

1. The only difference between "resale" and "developer" Wyndham points from an RCI perspective is - you get "Plus Partners" with developer purchase which includes "nightly" stays with RCI. Resale only has access to RCI weeks.

2. You can mix and match between Wyndham properties (as long as they are points and not fixed/floating weeks). The only way in which you can't mix and match is for Advanced Reservation Priority (ARP) - this is the ability to book at a resort during a high demand timeframe, 13 months in advance of the stay. For example, to book in New Orleans at Mardi Gras, you have to have ARP there. Myrtle Beach in prime summer weeks is also difficult. Christmas week can be difficult at several locations.

3. A licensed broker is not necessary. Most timeshares are closed with a timeshare closing company.

The deal you reference is not a good deal. The broker has padded the price with huge fees that are atypical of what is required. A popular timeshare closing company can close most properties for less than $200 plus the Wyndham $299 transfer fee. Recommend you check ebay completed listings for a sampling of prices.

You should know that prices have gone up recently. How long they will remain at the current pricing is unknown, but the commitment is forever... perhaps your platinum friend will offer to rent to you in the future? That might be a better alternative, as a platinum VIP owner can probably rent to you for less than it would cost you in maintenance fees alone.
 

vacationhopeful

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Eric (Bigrob) has answered your questions VERY well.

There are several considerations needed for you (and your family) to decide before buying ANY timeshare.

Where? As you mention - ARP - is first dibs in reserving units at a resort - must reserve 13-10 months BEFORE check at your deeded resort using ONLY the points deeded at THAT resort. Very helpful if you are tied to a school calendar with kids or a work schedule which you must TAKE your vacation time (Like between Xmas and NYE or July 4th and the week after).

Then look at the SIZE of unit and time of year AT the area/resort you are interested. The PRIME seasons (summer & holidays) generally cost more POINTS to book than the off season MUD weeks at ski areas or Winter weeks in SC.

Next, consider HOW much you can afford for Maintenance Fees every year and then figure that the MFs will go up 5-7% per year. If in 5 years, those costs would require you to get a 2nd job as you plan to send the kids to college or private elementary school or you will need a bigger house to live in ... look at buying your timeshare as a EVEN or ODD year. Or look at RENTING the vacations without the commitment of MFs invoices every year.

That should keep you reading and figuring for the next month or so.

My final piece of advice is: TAKE YOUR TIME -- far, far easier to buy than it is to dump a timeshare.
 

uscav8r

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OP (that is Original Poster),

The resale deal you quoted has horrible terms. Depending on which resort it was, you should be able to get that 154k contract for $500-1200 TOTAL. That includes all transfer fees, deed prep, recording, and the purchase price. If you have any kids, 154k will probably not be enough to do anything with, and 231k would be a better target.

Transfers involving reputable sellers/brokers do not take 6 months to process. It will be about 75-120 days in general, which includes the broker prep, deed recording, and Wyndham's time to process (this alone is 6-7 weeks of that period).


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

lcml11

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... I should probably lay out what Matt was offering us. To be clear we had stressed to him that we wanted the bare minimum package especially after he had shown us the benefits of using RCI and meeting the woman who was a Platinum VIP strengthened our resolve to start with the bare minimum if we made a purchase at all. Both my wife and I felt that the RCI discounted rates alone were worth the price. This is what he drew up for us the dollar amounts aren't exact but very close from what I can remember. For some strange reason we didn't leave with any written numbers ...

It looks like you are primarily interested in RCI and want to vary were you want to go. If this is the case, then you might want to consider picking a timeshare resort in a city you want to go to if necessary every year and than just trade it through RCI for the years you do not want to use it. If purchase price is a driving factor, then this is a way to consider going. I have stopped watching E-Bay, but you should be able to buy something that has a decent trading value for under $1,000 dollars unless re-sales prices have good up across the board.

If $208 dollars a month is a acceptable amount to pay per month for the Wyndham contract that was offered to you, another option might be to just do a long term rental agreement with a timeshare owner that does not want to use their timeshare for a period of time. You should be able to get a decent unit that has RCI trading capabilities for about 800 to 1000 dollars per year. These figures are high enough that you should be able to have a decent selection.

If this option is of interest, I am sure there are a number of people that frequent this forum that could assist you.
 
Last edited:

ronparise

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Eric, Linda and Chris have addressed most of your questions, but if you stick around you will see that I cant stay out of a discussion like this. I got the same pitch at Bonnet Creek 4 years ago but we bought.....2 days later we rescinded. Then I found ebay and bought 385000 points for less than $1000 (incl closing costs and transfer fees). Prices today are higher, but not as high as your broker quoted you

1) Re RCI. Yes you get a RCI weeks account with a Wyndham ownership The number of Wyndham points required for a week at an RCI resort varies based on season and the size of the unit. RCIs Last Call program will be available to you. As the name implies, this is for last minute reservations. Its a cash program, you wont need to use your points and everything available is priced under $300. The question is will there be anything available where you want to go when you want to go there. . Last call works well for me There always seems to be availability at Vacation Village at Parkway. Its close to home and I can bring my dog. The program may not work as well for you.

2) there are two reasons to buy your points at one resort or another. a) do you need advanced reservation priority to satisfy your needs (like Christmas in Orlando, July 4 at Myrtle Beach, Mardi Gras etc.) b) maintenance fees...fees vary resort to resort. I prefer paying an average price for an average mf rather than paying a high price for a low mf

3) You dont need a broker but if you buy on ebay pay attention to the seller some are easier to work with and friendlier to new buyers than others.
 

Don

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I would like to further explain some statements previously made.
Vacationhopeful: "As you mention - ARP - is first dibs in reserving units at a resort - must reserve 13-10 months BEFORE check at your deeded resort using ONLY the points deeded at THAT resort."
and
Ronparise: "2) there are two reasons to buy your points at one resort or another. a) do you need advanced reservation priority to satisfy your needs (like Christmas in Orlando, July 4 at Myrtle Beach, Mardi Gras etc.)"

Let's say that you like going to Ocean Blvd. in Myrtle Beach over the 7/4 week. That is prime time for the resort. To be able to book that week for a 2bdr deluxe lower unit you will need to buy 375K at that resort to get ARP for the week. If you only buy 150K you can only book a Fri. and Sat. stay. The other 500K points you might have at other resorts cannot come into play until the 10 month period. In other words, ARP is only good up to the number of points you have at that resort. So make sure you buy enough "to satisfy your needs".
 

persia

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You should also be aware that Wyndham's current kool aid is CWA, Club Wyndham Access. It's a basket of rooms at most, though not all, Wyndham properties. Maintenance fees are averaged over those properties and of course you'll never face a "special assessment" fee. The maintenance fee is somewhere in the good range as compared to CWP around $4.91(?, is that right? I fall asleep in sales presentations) per thousand points.

CWP, Club Wyndham Plus, the previous Wyndham kool aid, is ownership at a single resort. It is a separate basket of rooms. If your home resort needs upgrading or gets hit with a tropical storm, you could get a "special assessment." Maintenance fees run from about $4 a thousand to $9 or so, with most in the 5 to 6 dollar range.

While I say separate baskets, that only matters 13 to 11 months out from your reservation (ie ARP). If you try to ARP with CWA points you can only get CWA inventory, if you ARP with CWP points you can only get CWP inventory. At 10 months out "points is points" and all inventory is available first come first served.
 
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