WKORV-N&S Emergency Assessment [Retroactive Taxes]

tsXanadu said:

I paid the assessment as well. I also did not own one of my weeks at WKORV during the period covered by this assessment. I didn't appreciate the whole taxation-without-representation issue that timesharing poses, until this issue got me thinking more intently about all of this. It does indeed beg the question of how do people, who aren't represented, defend themselves? The Boston Tea Party and the Stamp Act come to mind, but times are different now.

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Indeed. The American populace are now much better armed than they were then.

I don't own in Hawaii but a friend owns six weeks at Diamond Resorts which is the pink building down the road. I was telling him about the assessment and he shared that a few years ago he got hit with an $8500 tax assesment for his VOI. So sad to see what appears to be a targeting of a particular group.

Some have commented that until locals feel they are directly affected by the tax increase that nothing will be done------I would suggest all Maui users at every purchase let the store or service provider know you would have spent more but Maui timeshare taxes kept you from it. Whether that is true or not the constant litany of hearing that will accomplish the fact that it is affecting them directly.

How is it that a timeshare owner at Maui Ocean Club said his timeshare foresaw this reevaluation of taxes in 2010 and our WKORV and WKORVN Board didnt?

Is this special assessment Maui's way of getting even--i.e. recouping the Taxes they had to give back previously.

As to taxes their are increasing costs all governments face every year--they can reduce rates and increase valuations or reduce valuations and increase rates---at the end of the day they need to cover the Dollar Pie and only so many pockets to reach into and what does least harm to local voters---So let everyone know whatever you spend-that you would have spent more but taxes on timeshares kept you---after they hear that a 1,000 times they will hold board members accountable

Scott

Scott & Laura said:

Is this special assessment Maui's way of getting even--i.e. recouping the Taxes they had to give back previously.

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I know that there is definite rancor between Starwood and the County of Maui. I think it started when Starwood pushed back after the "timeshare" classification was created and then charged an excessively high rate. It was exacerbated when the Master Association filed a Sunshine Law complaint.

No one really knows what went on, and who's mainly at fault, but It appears that they've ONLY targeted WKORV/N for this most recent ex post facto recalculation of taxes because I haven't read that the Marriott timeshare owners were hit with this. If that is truly the case, then it's clear that they are trying to retaliate against Starwood. IMO, they are going to have to either make it uniform (in which case all timeshares in existence in 2006-08 might be hit), or they're going to have to retract this reassessment.

That being said, aside from the residents of Maui who enjoy the lowest property taxes in the nation thanks to their tourism trade, the only people who are making out on this fight are the lawyers for the Ocean Master Associations.

How is the WKORV/N HOA considered at fault by reacting and taking appropriate action against an unfair tax?

Scott/Laura - while well intended - how am I going to tell Biz owners how I am not spending money at there place of business when I am not going to their business. Also, the awkwardness of the question of the 1st place... and generally the interaction is with some worker and not business owner.

Unfortunate Tuggers represent a low percentage of WKORV/N Owners - so most are unaware - and add on top of that - apathetic. Owners need to get involved.

When WSJ-VGV had issues, we reached out to as many VGV owners as we could - and got real action by the HOA. However, VGV Owners were not as numerous as WKORV/N owners - we ended up contacting about 25% of owners. For WKORV/N - probably <1%.

The only way to accomplish this is to have access to Owners - which we do not, and VSE would unlikely ever allow this.

People who care about this should get involved - or the HOA and Maui county will take advantage of us as far as they are able. I add the HOA because if we don't speak-up, then there will be no motivation to act once they have our money. What is their motivation? They do not own a high % of VOIs, and besides they rent them out and can easily make up the $ difference by increasing their rents.

IMO

DavidnRobin said:

How is the WKORV/N HOA considered at fault by reacting and taking appropriate action against an unfair tax?

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Because the Councilmen either don't see it as being unfair or they don't like being accused of implementing an "unfair" tax.

Remember, the Zoning Board also tried to yank their building permit for Nanea AFTER they'd already approved it. Maui obviously lost that fight, but it appears as if they're going to retaliate against the Westin in any way they can. Unfortunately, they hold all the power here, and there's little owners can do.

LisaRex said:

Because the Councilmen either don't see it as being unfair or they don't like being accused of implementing an "unfair" tax.

Remember, the Zoning Board also tried to yank their building permit for Nanea AFTER they'd already approved it. Maui obviously lost that fight, but it appears as if they're going to retaliate against the Westin in any way they can. Unfortunately, they hold all the power here, and there's little owners can do.

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That is the fault and of the council based on their perception - their perception is not the fault of the WKORV/N HOAs that have very right to prevent and fight against unfair taxation. I guess the HOA should just [take it?]

DavidnRobin said:

That is the fault and of the council based on their perception - their perception is not the fault of the WKORV/N HOAs that have very right to prevent and fight against unfair taxation. I guess the HOA should just [take it?]

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IMO, they should have allowed ARDA to do the fighting. (ARDA represents all timeshares.) Or they should have been content with their successful appeal to revalue the property. When the Ocean Master Association sued the council personally for violating the Sunshine laws, they put a big target on WKORV. IMO, it was a nuisance lawsuit that Maui Council responded to by introducing this latest revaluation. Once again, I believe it will ultimately repealed because it targeted WKORV alone, and wouldn't negotiate on the due date (which was all kinds of ridiculous). But in the meantime, do you really want to up the ante again or just call a truce? Me, I'm all for fighting the fair fight based on principle, but I'm also realistic to know that there's little to be gained by fighting City Hall and a bunch of corrupt politicians.

ARDA fights individual battle for a resort ???
That is a new one...

Nuisance lawsuit?
This is payback, because HOA stood-up?

WKORV/N HOA (us) have every right to legally oppose unfair tax rates, retroactive taxes, etc.
I do not want the HOA to back down. The tax rate is unfair, the retro taxes are unfair (and their publicized criticism is non-factual, other than the fact that they feel this way... which seems to be the new fad, the feel=fact syndrome)

I would be more than happy to raise these opinions to a higher court where unfair practices/policies will have sunlight.
The extra $$, is small part of this IMO
I respect what you have to say (and always have...),but going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Lucky for you the buyers on record of your WKORV OF are on the hook for the extra $ - the OFD VOI tax proportion is not inconsequential.

I would like to see more transparency, but the fight in WSJ involved fewer Owners.
later - still waiting on 'SA' bill - not paying until I get in mail.

Hasn't Syed posted about the unfair Maui taxes on timeshares since they were first introduced, both as to his knowledge of the proposals as well as ARDA's actions against them? I know ARDA gets a bad rap on TUG, and no doubt they're in this fight as developer proponents, but the fact is that they're a powerful lobbying group. If ARDA's actions for the developers also help the timeshare owners, which in this case it appears they have already to some extent and could going forward, why would anyone have a problem with their involvement?

SueDonJ said:

Hasn't Syed posted about the unfair Maui taxes on timeshares since they were first introduced, both as to his knowledge of the proposals as well as ARDA's actions against them? I know ARDA gets a bad rap on TUG, and no doubt they're in this fight as developer proponents, but the fact is that they're a powerful lobbying group. If ARDA's actions for the developers also help the timeshare owners, which in this case it appears they have already to some extent and could going forward, why would anyone have a problem with their involvement?

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Did I say I have a problem with ARDA's involvement? please re-read... I did not state this. I was talking about ARDA fighting for an individual resort - they certainly are involved in the broad timeshare program - albeit with little obvious success in the case of Maui TS property taxes.

I support the Board's actions and hope that they keep fighting. If we are the only group that got a SA it really is unfair, but overall TS are unfairly taxed. After our last visit, I do feel that Maui is getting a bit overdeveloped though. Nanea is going to push our area of the island even farther into overcrowding. Traffic was frustrating our last trip.

DavidnRobin said:

ARDA fights individual battle for a resort ???
That is a new one...

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No, ARDA is appropriate because it represents ALL timeshares. There are plenty of timeshares on Maui for them all to be concerned, but the bigger issue is if local legislators everywhere start following Maui's suit, and targeting timeshare owners to shoulder an unfair portion of the property taxes. If it can be stopped, it should be stopped NOW before Hilton Head council gets wind of it.

DavidNRobin said:

Nuisance lawsuit?

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Yes, the Sunshine Law aka Open Meeting lawsuit was a nuisance lawsuit, because even if the Supreme Court voided the timeshare classification that they accused them of discussing behind closed doors (which was highly unlikely), the Council could simply re-enact it. IOW, they might win the skirmish, but they didn't even make a dent in the war. IMO, all the energy and $$ should have been reserved for fighting the war, which is that timeshare owners have no recourse against these usurious taxes.

WKORV/N HOA (us) have every right to legally oppose unfair tax rates, retroactive taxes, etc.

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Of course they do, but why should WKORV owners fight it alone? If they win the due process argument and the timeshare classification is struck down, all the timeshares will benefit, so why allow just one group to shoulder the cost of fighting it, not to mention be targets for a bitter Council?

I would like to see more transparency, but the fight in WSJ involved fewer Owners.
later - still waiting on 'SA' bill - not paying until I get in mail.

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...And WSJ HOA had the unique advantage of having access to owners' addresses and emails (because they were acquired by Starwood).

Good luck to you all. I think Maui council should be ashamed of themselves.

LisaRex said:

No, ARDA is appropriate because it represents ALL timeshares. There are plenty of timeshares on Maui for them all to be concerned, but the bigger issue is if local legislators everywhere start following Maui's suit, and targeting timeshare owners to shoulder an unfair portion of the property taxes. If it can be stopped, it should be stopped NOW before Hilton Head council gets wind of it. ...

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Hilton Head has already gotten wind of it and for a few years now there have been rumblings. So far none of them have come to fruition but they're the reason I watch what's happening at Maui so closely.

Has anyone received their bill in the mail?

DeniseM said:

Has anyone received their bill in the mail?

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Nope - still waiting. Not paying until I see mailing.

DavidnRobin said:

Nope - still waiting. Not paying until I see mailing.

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How can they be due tomorrow, if the bills haven't been sent out?

DeniseM said:

How can they be due tomorrow, if the bills haven't been sent out?

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hmmm - I have Aug 16 on Calendar

they cannot expect everyone to have received an email regarding this SA (based on my experience with SVO/VSE database, email changes, and spam filters) - it has to be by mail.

DavidnRobin said:

hmmm - I have Aug 15 on Calendar

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You may be right - I was thinking it was the end of July.

I stand corrected - the first email said:

Bills for the special assessment will be mailed shortly and will be due thirty (30) days from the date of mailing.

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DeniseM said:

I stand corrected - the first email said:

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So what happens when it takes 3weeks to get to you in the mail, this is the first you've heard of the SA, and you only have a week notice to pay the bill by the Aug 15 due date?

YYJMSP said:

So what happens when it takes 3weeks to get to you in the mail, this is the first you've heard of the SA, and you only have a week notice to pay the bill by the Aug 15 due date?

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My guess is that the Net 30 terms won't be strictly enforced.

DeniseM said:

Has anyone received their bill in the mail?

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Received the email on July 18th saying bills were mailed today. Here it is July 30th (August 1st really) and it has not come in the mail. Wonder if the mail is coming by outrigger! :annoyed:

labonnevie said:

Received the email on July 18th saying bills were mailed today. Here it is July 30th (August 1st really) and it has not come in the mail. Wonder if the mail is coming by outrigger! :annoyed:

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I sent an email to Vistana (still don't like that name) saying I had not received my invoice by mail. I received the following:

This email comes in response to your recent communication regarding your vacation ownership interest at the Westin Ka’anapali Ocean Resort Villas. Thank you for taking the time to share your concerns surrounding the special assessment billing, we apologize that you have not received the invoice.

Please note, we have emailed you (separately) a copy of your Tax Assessment bill for your home resort. For payment you may contact Association Management at 1-800-729-8246 Monday - Thursday 8 AM - 9 PM and Friday 8 AM - 5 PM eastern standard time or via your owner's website at www.vistana.com.

Thank you again and for allowing an opportunity to respond. We look forward to serving your vacation ownership needs for many years to come.

Sincerely,
Vistana Signature Experiences

They were nice enough to email me my invoices.

Due date is August 31st with a $50 late penalty and 12% APR interest.

Has anyone received an invoice by mail?

labonnevie said:

Has anyone received an invoice by mail?

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Nope, and further, it shows that I am paid in full.

The tax assessment is in there, but it's marked as paid.