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I should know this but....

tahoeJoe

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... I don't. What is Sheraton-flex? What are the advantages and disadvantages of this program? Who can join and is there a cost?

Just curious,
 

DeniseM

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Here is the Sheraton Flex FAQ: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238504

Basically, you are buying into a mini-Club (points based) within VSE that includes the following resorts which all become your home resorts with home resort access:

Sheraton Vistana Resort (FL-Orlando)
Sheraton Vistana Villages (FL-Orlando)
Vistana's Beach Club (FL-Jensen Beach)
Sheraton Desert Oasis (AZ-Scottsdale)
Sheraton Broadway Plantation (SC-Myrtle Beach)
Sheraton Steamboat Springs (CO-Steamboat Springs)

You can trade in your current timeshares, or buy in directly.

IMNSHO - Starwood ran out of things to sell, so they repackaged some of the less popular resorts and re-sold them as something new and improved.

Personally, I can't think of any advantage over simply buying a resale deed at the resort(s) that you want, for a fraction of the cost. YMMV
 
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okwiater

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IMNSHO - Starwood ran out of things to sell, so they repackaged some of the less popular resorts and re-sold them as something new and improved.

Personally, I can't think of any advantage over simply buying a resale deed at the resort(s) that you want, for a fraction of the cost. YMMV

I don't disagree entirely, as most of those resorts can be booked with VSN/StarOptions. However, Flex does get you access to Myrtle Beach over July 4th, as well as Steamboat Springs during ski season. Neither of those are typically available as VSN exchanges.
 

cubigbird

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I don't disagree entirely, as most of those resorts can be booked with VSN/StarOptions. However, Flex does get you access to Myrtle Beach over July 4th, as well as Steamboat Springs during ski season. Neither of those are typically available as VSN exchanges.

That's all subject to availability and not guaranteed. The sales team does a great job in implying that you can book at any of those resorts at any time. Steamboat is a very small resort so if you try to book even minutes late you'll be out of luck. If you really want those ski weeks or prime summer weeks you are probably better off looking for an old non-Flex contract deeded for that usage. Own where and when you want to go.

I agree with Denise, the Flex is more or less a points system (that's more expensive) disguised as Starwood running out of weeks to sell. It's their way to poke holes in what you have and talk you in to buying your usage all over again. I know they (should) deposit underlying weeks into the program but if the result is just points, they can its sell more points infinitely if they need to. They can't "create" more weeks.
 

SandyPGravel

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Yet if VSE would just "take back" weeks that people no longer want and can't get rid of on their own, they would have at least some inventory to sell. Even if the week(s) weren't paid in full(Assuming the deeds were still financed through VSE.), they would find some sucker to buy it, and sell it for full price again. Especially the ones at resorts like Harborside, that you have to jump through hoops to be rid of.

It is like they are shooting themselves in the foot by ignoring what is out there. It doesn't seem like it would be that hard for them to maintain a database of weeks that people want to be rid of. Have the deeded owners sign off that they are relinquishing their ownership, still have to make payments until someone else buys it, (like a car) and when the sales staff finds a buyer, the deeded owner is off the hook. Sales department prints out spreadsheets daily in the sales office for what inventory is currently available. (Not like the weeks would be flying off the shelf.)

I know it would require some effort on VSE's part, but it would be better than what the FLEX program sounds like.
 

okwiater

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That's all subject to availability and not guaranteed. The sales team does a great job in implying that you can book at any of those resorts at any time. Steamboat is a very small resort so if you try to book even minutes late you'll be out of luck. If you really want those ski weeks or prime summer weeks you are probably better off looking for an old non-Flex contract deeded for that usage. Own where and when you want to go.

Obviously it's subject to availability, just like any other floating week. But as a Flex owner, I have found that Steamboat availability is plentiful, even for prime weeks, all the way to the 8-month deadline. Past performance is obviously no guarantee of future results, but please don't make assertions which are patently false, just because you decided you don't like the product.
 

Password is taco

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I don't disagree entirely, as most of those resorts can be booked with VSN/StarOptions. However, Flex does get you access to Myrtle Beach over July 4th, as well as Steamboat Springs during ski season. Neither of those are typically available as VSN exchanges.

Are any of the above worth the $20+thd price tag? I don't think so.
 
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One very imlortant thing to know is that if you go with flex your maintenance fees will be guaranteed to increase.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk
 

tschwa2

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There was a 95,500 flex on ebay for $2000 OBO with about $600 more in fees. I considered offer $1600 all in, to play with it but decided with a $1400 or so MF it was not going to be worth the effort because it would then be restricted to the flex trust only and at that price I might as well go Key West or Bella and get the network as I don't see myself in Steamboat any time soon.
 

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okwiater

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One very imlortant thing to know is that if you go with flex your maintenance fees will be guaranteed to increase.

As opposed to a non-Flex ownership??
 

DavidnRobin

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The same could be said about almost any developer purchase.

'almost' being the operative word for any TS purchase

There are certainly VSE resale over >$20K that are worth it.
and even some direct VSE purchases... for those 0.1% (certain situations, money to burn, etc...)
 

rickandcindy23

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I suspect Sheraton Flex is keeping me from booking as many 4th of July weeks as I used to book, but honestly, I haven't been able to book a thing online for next year with any of my weeks, except my Palmetto Gold, which is bookable online.

I assume my booking problems have everything to do with owning too many Plantation/Myrtle phase units. The computer cannot pick a week with fees paid before it times out. Frustrating, and no promises it will get fixed.

I see zero lockoffs online at midnight Eastern Time each weekend. It's getting old. We own several lockoffs and have to go through VSE owner services, or whatever it is called. Treniecia has been pleasant, kind, and sympathetic throughout the ordeal and is booking weeks for me each week.
 

okwiater

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'almost' being the operative word for any TS purchase

There are certainly VSE resale over >$20K that are worth it.
and even some direct VSE purchases... for those 0.1% (certain situations, money to burn, etc...)

Yes, but I was responding to Password is taco who was talking specifically about a developer purchase of Flex.

There are a lot of unqualified statements in this thread and on this BBS (not saying you DnR, just in general) about Flex which are either untrue or overly generalized. Most of the people making the statements don't own Flex and don't fully understand the system themselves. The OP of this thread specifically asked about advantages and disadvantages of Flex and my opinion is that if this board is to maintain credibility then he should get a factual and unbiased answer.
 

LisaRex

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As opposed to a non-Flex ownership??

Actually, Rick has hit on an important disadvantage of Flex ownership: MFs. States have passed consumer protection laws that prohibit management companies from charging high season owners more in MFs than low season owners. Therefore, when you own a DEEDED week, MFs are divided equally among all owners and is usually based on square footage. If you think about it, it makes absolute sense. Why should Week 12 owner of Unit A pay $1000 more in MFs than Week 24 owner of Unit A, just because the former has consistently nicer weather? Why should an OF owner pay more in MFs than an IV owner of the same sized unit, just because the former can see the ocean from his villa?

An indirect consequence of these consumer protection laws is that MFs cannot realistically exceed the rental rate of the lowest season. If they did, then low season owners would bail. (How stupid would you have to be to pay $2500 in "maintenance fees" for a unit that you could rent for $1500?) For resorts like WKORV, seasonal swings in rental rates are minimal, but for resorts like WKV, SBP, HRA, and WSJ, that low season rental rate "cap" has most certainly helped keep their MFs low.

Flex programs destroy all those protections because you've destroyed the "7 days in a specific resort in a specific season in a specific unit size" model. Once you break the connection between MFs and a specific resort, you lose the "low season" cap, and the ability to compare your MFs to comparable rental rates. $1500 in MFs might be a good deal for a July week at SPB, but not at SDO. So how do you know if you're getting a good deal or not? And who/what is going to protect you if the developer increases the MFs by 5 cents per point?
 

tschwa2

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An indirect consequence of these consumer protection laws is that MFs cannot realistically exceed the rental rate of the lowest season. If they did, then low season owners would bail. (How stupid would you have to be to pay $2500 in "maintenance fees" for a unit that you could rent for $1500?) For resorts like WKORV, seasonal swings in rental rates are minimal, but for resorts like WKV, SBP, HRA, and WSJ, that low season rental rate "cap" has most certainly helped keep their MFs low.

There is no cap. MF is what it cost to run the resort divided by all the units in every season.

It really hasn't protected anyone. It has totally screwed most low season owners. HRA owners of silver season(fall) 2 bedroom lock offs have nearly a $3000 MF but are lucky to rent it our for $1000-$1500. It is given 81,000 points. They certainly would like to bail but can't sell because even when they offer it for free and even pay the $2000 for the Bahamian transfer they can't find anyone to take it.

Same with an off season SBP 2 br lock off has a MF of around $1200. In low season RCI rents those weeks for about $400-600. Most Orlando VSE owners would have difficulty renting out their units to cover MF even when they own in the highest season, let alone the lowest season.

At SBP to stay in high season would cost about $1500 (in points MF's) with Flex vs $1200 with deeded gold plus. To stay in lowest season would be about $800 with flex vs the $1200 with deeded ownership.
 

AriMorgan

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I had a 95,500 last month and asked around and no one seemed to want it so I gave it back to the resort.
 

DavidnRobin

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Yes, but I was responding to Password is taco who was talking specifically about a developer purchase of Flex.

There are a lot of unqualified statements in this thread and on this BBS (not saying you DnR, just in general) about Flex which are either untrue or overly generalized. Most of the people making the statements don't own Flex and don't fully understand the system themselves. The OP of this thread specifically asked about advantages and disadvantages of Flex and my opinion is that if this board is to maintain credibility then he should get a factual and unbiased answer.

I was agreeing with you - and that there are cases where paying $$$ for a VSE VOI is worth it. e.g. WKORV OF, WSJ Plat+ pool villa, WKV Plat+...
Not sure if Flex is worth a large purchase price - certainly not for me, but perhaps in some instances.
 

okwiater

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An indirect consequence of these consumer protection laws is that MFs cannot realistically exceed the rental rate of the lowest season. If they did, then low season owners would bail. (How stupid would you have to be to pay $2500 in "maintenance fees" for a unit that you could rent for $1500?) For resorts like WKORV, seasonal swings in rental rates are minimal, but for resorts like WKV, SBP, HRA, and WSJ, that low season rental rate "cap" has most certainly helped keep their MFs low.

As pointed out by tschwa2 and AngelaNoel, this supposition is wrong. Also, HRA and WSJ MFs are not low by any measure.

Flex programs destroy all those protections because you've destroyed the "7 days in a specific resort in a specific season in a specific unit size" model. Once you break the connection between MFs and a specific resort, you lose the "low season" cap, and the ability to compare your MFs to comparable rental rates. $1500 in MFs might be a good deal for a July week at SPB, but not at SDO. So how do you know if you're getting a good deal or not? And who/what is going to protect you if the developer increases the MFs by 5 cents per point?

Putting aside the flaw in your premise regarding the relationship between MFs and rental rates, it's not accurate to say this blended MF concern affects only Flex programs. Yes, it affects the Flex program but it also affects all points-based programs, i.e. Nanea, WSJ Coral/Bay Vista, the entirety of the Marriott TS system, etc. So although it's reasonable to see an inherent disadvantage in not owning a deeded resort week, it's not accurate to describe Flex as a uniquely disadvantaged style of ownership.
 

YYJMSP

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Putting aside the flaw in your premise regarding the relationship between MFs and rental rates, it's not accurate to say this blended MF concern affects only Flex programs. Yes, it affects the Flex program but it also affects all points-based programs, i.e. Nanea, WSJ Coral/Bay Vista, the entirety of the Marriott TS system, etc. So although it's reasonable to see an inherent disadvantage in not owning a deeded resort week, it's not accurate to describe Flex as a uniquely disadvantaged style of ownership.

And don't forget SO's -- those deeded weeks effectively become points weeks at 8mos.
 

DavidnRobin

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The new VSE 'points' systems attempt to fix a major issue with deeded weeks that have seasons where MF is same regardless of season. The problem with these deeded weeks (as discussed here) is that Owners of the lower season weeks (that have same MF as high season weeks) may bail on their weeks as they have become valueless (or very low value) - many examples of this - and cause the other Owners to pick up the slack (increase in MF) which in turn may cause more Owners to bail (vicious cycle).

This is why WSJ-VGV HOA started the take back and resale of delinquent weeks.
 

pacman777

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The new VSE 'points' systems attempt to fix a major issue with deeded weeks that have seasons where MF is same regardless of season. The problem with these deeded weeks (as discussed here) is that Owners of the lower season weeks (that have same MF as high season weeks) may bail on their weeks as they have become valueless (or very low value) - many examples of this - and cause the other Owners to pick up the slack (increase in MF) which in turn may cause more Owners to bail (vicious cycle).

This is why WSJ-VGV HOA started the take back and resale of delinquent weeks.

It would imply that holding onto your deeded high season weeks would be the best approach as that would be more valuable than the points week. Let the masses who are in the points program subsidize and pay towards the maintenance fees of the undesirable season weeks.
 
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