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[ 2013 ] Question about "Value Trade Agreement" validity

tschwa2

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Was the $1200 in the original contract and did you question it at that time?


From the reports of many that post here and other places, who bought from legitimate resorts in Mexico, they send your TS to a 3rd party company that will generally try to dispose of your timeshare. Two to three years ago I would have said that most do 90% of the time but resorts have made it difficult to be disposed of so now the chances are 30-50% that they will be successful and 50-70% chance that they will be unsuccessful and after 6 to 18 months might tell you, "Eh you can keep your discount and your original timeshares too because we were unable to dispose of them and by the way enjoy the 3 timeshares you now own."

Harry Callahan: I know what you're thinking, punk. You're thinking "did he fire six shots or only five?" Now to tell you the truth I forgot myself in all this excitement. But being this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and will blow you head clean off, you've gotta ask yourself a question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?
 

vicladeeda

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Question about "Value Trade Agreement" validity

Yes, the amount was in the original contract. ....AND the TS seller credited our purchase price for that same amount & told us that we would then use that $ to pay Value Traders. And, after talking to folks staying at the same place we found out that those new owners had bought for the same price we had and traded nothing in. So we feel both stupid, beaten and don't want to fork over any more cash.

(Also we are concerned that Pueblo Bonito Sunset & Westgate will not let go of our agreement even though they are paid off and current on MF. )
 

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I am in the same predicament today:( What did you end up doing?
 

DeniseM

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I am in the same predicament today:( What did you end up doing?

The last post in this thread is from May, so if you would like to contact a particular poster, the best method would be to click on their blue user name, and send them an email.
 

mixmex

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Value Trade

I did and hoping to receive back a reply soon. Thanks.
 

mtngal08

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Value Trader!

I'm hoping to hear from Vicladeeda and/or Mixmex via private email or here about Value Trader! We just signed a trade with them last week! Yikes! :eek: We thought we read all the 'fine' print but when we got home, we saw the 'finer' print! We supposedly have until Monday, Dec 2 to change our minds but may be responsible for the 'nonrefundable' downpayment for an upgrade at Paradise Village ('selling' them Westgate). Does anyone else have any solutions? Thanks!!
 

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Does anyone else have any solutions with Value Trader? Thanks!!
 
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vicladeeda

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Value Traders did the job I paid them to do.

I committed to transfer two properties, one US TS and one Mexican TS through Value Traders (VT). I was full of fear, figured I'd be victimized by another Mexican scam, but in the end, they did what they said they would.

There was, however, an issue. Part of it was my fault. My US TS requires notification so that the owner has right of first refusal. After doing so, VT said "At this point in time you should not provide any purchase information to [my US TS] or any information of any sort regarding this transaction. As [my US TS] is one of the more difficult transfers due to their terms and conditions about transfers to re-sale companies this can jeopardize [my US TS] the transaction. I believe the best option at this point will be to return the account directly to [my US TS] through their “deed-back” process as there is a very good chance that this transaction will be denied due to the surrounding circumstances. We will not hold you responsible to return the value that you received for our rights to own this membership, however at this point this is the only way to guarantee that your name is successfully removed from this property." They also offered to help me with some of the very pricey deed-back fees. In the long run we just decided to keep the timeshare because of the expense of the deed-back process and the fact that it has value as a deeded property and decent trade value.

As far as the Mexican TS -- huge success. So glad to be rid of it, and I did confirm with the TS that my name is not on the property and I owe no future maintenance fees. It did, however take about 5 months (May to almost November) to complete this process, some in part due to me dragging my feet and part to a hurricane landing where the timeshare is located.

VT was quite professional and polite in their communications (but did on several times tell me that if I didn't send the required documents that my file would fall into default). I did have a problem with one of the gents I worked with not getting back to me for a couple weeks, (I thought perhaps he no longer was employed there) but forwarding the email to their customer service address got a prompt reply.

So like you, I went into this transaction nervous and prepared to be a victim...praying that it would all come out ok. I'm so glad it did work out --not exactly as I'd planned, but I'm happy with the end result.

If you need more info, contact me.
 
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Value Traders

We just got hooked with UVC, hoping to ditch Legacy.
UVC services are good, we experienced it first hand at Punta Cana, DR - Dreams and Breathless.
The issue that is bothering us is the Value Traded Agreement.
Is this legally binding?
We want to disregard it since it says, third party blah blah and blah and wants $695 upfront.
I have read all the posts about them, which made me join this blog.
Can they really sue us if we do the "default" thing/
Please advise.
UVC has no cancellation policy but we want to call MC -dispute department.
We are based in the USA, they are in Mexico.

I want to shoot myself!!
 

theo

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Pay your money, place your bet --- and take your chances...

narsdoktorsausa:

In the final analysis, the risk with every one of these "trade in" related entities (most frequently found operating in Mexico) is that they could (and often do) simply fail to adequately follow through to properly get a "traded in" U.S. product out of the current owner name and into a new, valid name to legally transfer ownership in the U.S.

For a owned, deeded U.S. timeshare (i.e., an ownership --- not RTU "club" contracts), this generally requires the proper preparation of a new deed here in the U.S.A, officially recorded in the appropriate U.S. jurisdiction, often also requiring a "transfer fee" being paid to the U.S. resort or its' management company and, ultimately, actual acceptance of the ownership change by the U.S. resort to complete the final step of the transfer. Paperwork completed in (and /or money sent to and processed in) Mexico or DR means absolutely nothing in the eyes of U.S. law. Ultimately, a U.S.-based ownership must be transferred in accordance with U.S. laws and procedures. Until and unless all of that happens in the U.S.A., you still own the "traded in" U.S. timeshare (and all of the ongoing maintenance fee obligations associated therewith).

I hope that you are ultimately successful, but understand very clearly that "trade in" operations can be a real gamble if / when you choose to roll those unreliable dice.

P.S. I'm unclear if what you own is Legacy Vacation Club (Florida based and formerly known as Celebrity Resorts until its' post-bankruptcy "reinvention" with the new Legacy Vacation Club name a few years ago). If so, then despite the word "club" in the "reinvented" name, it is in fact still a deeded ownership (not RTU "club" contract), so all of my above input would indeed apply directly to you in regard to the necessary components to complete a lawful, U.S. recognized transfer of a U.S. ownership.

P.P.S. This Mexico (and / or Dominican Republic) "trade in" gimmick is really just a smoke and mirrors numbers game anyhow. A grossly inflated "trade in" value figure is presented to entice the "mark". That inflated (...fictitious, actually) number is then allegedly "applied" to a (also grossly inflated, fictitious) price for a new purchase.
In reality, the "mark" is being given nothing but some meaningless numbers on paper for the "trade-in" (which might very well have zero resale market value anyhow).
The same "net" purchase figure (...maybe even a lower figure) would still be readily available to you without any so-called "trade in". It's all just a contrived psychological ploy and a misleading sales tactic designed to extract your U.S. Dollars. They really couldn't care less about your (maybe worthless anyhow) "trade in" U.S. timeshare.
 
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Thank you @Theo.
yes, that was Celebrity...you are spot on!

A guy from Value Trader called my husband this am and made some empty promises.
ALL BS! I told my husband NOT to talk to him again.

UVC called also because I sent them an email and my 2 lawyers also advised me to call the Credit Card company to dispute the charges (We paid in full).

UVC advised us to stop the dispute because it is not good for their company and promised us that there is NO need for the "trading", but just to stick with them. I said, you send the proposal of your deal, if we like it, we will stop the dispute.
When I came home from work, there was no more email from them.
Another BS.
Now, we know better, we will cancel UVC !!
We will also try to get rid of Legacy..if not, we will just make use of the points via RCI..
Damn, that maintenance fee is 800 USD/ year.
 

theo

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Thank you @Theo.
yes, that was Celebrity...you are spot on!

A guy from Value Trader called my husband this am and made some empty promises.
ALL BS! I told my husband NOT to talk to him again.

UVC called also because I sent them an email and my 2 lawyers also advised me to call the Credit Card company to dispute the charges (We paid in full).

UVC advised us to stop the dispute because it is not good for their company and promised us that there is NO need for the "trading", but just to stick with them. I said, you send the proposal of your deal, if we like it, we will stop the dispute.
When I came home from work, there was no more email from them.
Another BS.
Now, we know better, we will cancel UVC !!
We will also try to get rid of Legacy..if not, we will just make use of the points via RCI..
Damn, that maintenance fee is 800 USD/ year.

We once owned a week (fortunately, acquired resale for peanuts) within pre-bankruptcy Celebrity Resorts and we ultimately gave it away (for free) a few years later.
The resort itself was certainly decent enough, but the company and its' practices, principals and company-controlled HOA stooges --- not so much (to say the least).

At least you have those RCI Points to use elsewhere (our week preceded Celebrity / Legacy's adoption of RCI Points around 2010 and we had no such RCI points).
If those points are enough to justify the $800 maintenance fee, you can hopefully extract some use or value from the ownership, but don't get sucked into the bogus "trade-in" gig in any scenario or you'll surely just be paying to rid yourself of something that you won't actually be rid of at all in the final analysis.
 
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tschwa2

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While disputing the cc charges will get the charges reversed initially, you still may not have a successful dispute.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=187698&postcount=6
Originally Posted by DaveM
Thus, advice to stop payment on a check or dispute the credit card charge might be sound advice. (...in addition to sending a cancellation letter in hopes of success!) However, if the charge was on a CC, the CC company will likely uphold the charge if the seller provides a copy of the signed contract and proves you got what was promised in writing. If a promise wasn't in writing, that promise won't be considered by the CC company.

Your question was: Is this legally binding?
I am not sure if you meant just the part about Value Traded Agreement or your whole contract with UVC? If you signed an agreement you agree to have the terms legally bind you. I don't think you can default because you think they may not hold up part of the deal. If they don't hold it up you may be able to legally default but you signed a contract in the DR and depending on the wording of the contract, you are likely bound by the rules and laws in the DM and would have to prove they breached contract. In all likelihood the contract you signed didn't even guarantee they would get your timeshare out of your name. In all likelihood the wording was that they would list or try to sell your week.

Since you have two lawyers, I am sure they can advise you better than we can here but not all countries have rescision laws and DR may be one of those. You sign, you buy.
 
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theo

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While disputing the cc charges will get the charges reversed initially, you still may not have a successful dispute.



Your question was: Is this legally binding?

I am not sure if you meant just the part about Value Traded Agreement or your whole contract with UVC? If you signed an agreement you agree to have the terms legally bind you. I don't think you can default because you think they may not hold up part of the deal. If they don't hold it up you may be able to legally default but you signed a contract in the DM and depending on the wording of the contract, you are likely bound by the rules and laws in the DM and would have to prove they breached contract. In all likelihood the contract you signed didn't even guarantee they would get your timeshare out of your name. In all likelihood the wording was that they would list or try to sell your week.

I don't dispute any of the above and the OP should certainly follow the guidance of her own legal counsel. I will nonetheless note that if OP can get the credit card charges successfully and permanently halted in this matter now, then (IMnsHO anyhow) by all means let those parasites in Dominica go right ahead and initiate and pursue a "breach of contract" action --- in Central America --- against a U.S. resident and citizen. Good luck with that, amigos.

They won't even bother, plainly and simply stated. They wouldn't initiate such a futile and pointless effort; there is always another Gringo coming around the corner soon, willing to step into their lair and, upon seeing the (completely fictitious) numbers implying "big trade in value", promptly succumb to the whole song and dance routine.
 
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GOOD NEWS!

ALL refunds posted in MC including the stupid transaction fees >600 USD

Good riddance UVC..

Still with Legacy...they said we cannot sell or cancel but transfer ..we will utilize our RCI points anyway > 55k...
yeah!!
next vacation : Costa Rica!:cheer:
 

theo

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<snip> next vacation : Costa Rica!:cheer:

...without attending or falling for any more bull$&!t "trade in" razzamatazz and / or song and dance routines, right? ;)
 
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OOOPS Another issue:
Legacy Vacation Club agreed to cancel our contract but will not refund any of our membership fees - 4k in 2008 and upgraded paid 6k this January.
What to do? HEELPPP!

take the loss?
they said when we cancel, no more further obligations anymore..
BUT no REFUNDS>>:eek:
 

theo

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OOOPS Another issue:
Legacy Vacation Club agreed to cancel our contract but will not refund any of our membership fees - 4k in 2008 and upgraded paid 6k this January.
What to do? HEELPPP!

take the loss?
they said when we cancel, no more further obligations anymore..
BUT no REFUNDS>>:eek:

1. The only monetary "refunds" from timeshare developers that I've ever known of are refunds of deposits in timely and properly submitted rescissions of developer-direct purchases, as plainly mandated by state law. (We'll conveniently ignore court settlements as distinctly separate --- and irrelevant to your situation anyhow).
You are long past any rescission eligibility in any state in the U.S.A.

2. Membership fees? If you owned in Celebrity / Legacy, then what you own is almost certainly a deeded week somewhere (I am assuming that was the $4k paid in 2008). That money is gone and it ain't ever coming back. Period, amen. Likewise if you actually intended to say maintenance fees instead of membership fees.

3. I am assuming that the $6k you paid in January was to "upgrade" your aforementioned deeded ownership to also have some associated RCI Points?
That was entirely too much money to pay for such an insignificant "upgrade", but if you chose to pay it then it that money is also now gone forever too.

4. If my assumption is correct that you actually have a deeded ownership (i.e., not any sort of "membership", except one with RCI), then for you to legally terminate your ownership there needs to be a new deed prepared and recorded in a new name (presumably that of Legacy, with their advance knowledge and consent and assistance).
I see no reference at all to any such process in your post. Who, exactly, are you having these conversations with? Is there anything from Legacy expressed in writing?

Maybe you should confer with your own legal counsel (again), but fwiw I don't think you are going to see (or are in any way even remotely eligible to receive) any "refunds" in any scenario that I can imagine for purchases freely, knowingly and voluntarily made --- one of them 7 years ago now and the other one 9 months ago.
I would be delighted to be mistaken, but I would also be willing to bet that I am not.

No disrespect intended, but it seems (from the very limited facts provided) that you have quite casually spent at least $10k+ without really understanding either the product or the long term ramifications of your multiple purchases. In any event, rest assured that there are no "refunds" in your future in regard to this ownership.
 
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Thanks Theo..such candidness is needed for me to wake up !!
My husband is mad with me already..some money out the window!!

The Legacy Rep called me this morning after we sent our cancellation letter yesterday.
They will send some documents to be filled up by my husband and I
and notarized for formal cancellation of our Legacy Vacation Membership ( 55k points)

At any rate..this is an expensive lesson.
 

theo

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Thanks Theo..such candidness is needed for me to wake up !!
My husband is mad with me already..some money out the window!!

The Legacy Rep called me this morning after we sent our cancellation letter yesterday.
They will send some documents to be filled up by my husband and I
and notarized for formal cancellation of our Legacy Vacation Membership ( 55k points)

At any rate..this is an expensive lesson.

Once again, you don't have a Legacy "membership". You have ownership of a deeded week somewhere and that week now also has some associated RCI Points.
In short, the only "membership" you have is with RCI, solely by virtue of your having apparently bought into a "conversion to RCI points" in 2010. That conversion to points does not change or eliminate the underlying deeded week ownership; it merely "adds" RCI Points to that deeded ownership, to potentially use the points elsewhere (as an alternative to, not in addition to) using the underlying deeded week itself in any given year. You can use the points or the week, but not both, in the same year.

What Legacy (hopefully) is going to send you is likely a quit claim deed, which you will both have to get signed and notarized and returned to Legacy for them to undertake official recording in the appropriate jurisdiction (usually the County in which the underlying deeded week's facility is physically located). If the purchase is paid off, as you have at least implied, you likely were already provided with the original, hard copy recorded deed reflecting O.R. Book & Page or Instrument number, although whether you can find that deed now is not important if Legacy is preparing a new QC deed for you to sign.

You would be wise and well advised to make absolutely certain that the new deed does indeed get recorded; Legacy VC is not the most trustworthy operation around.
Until and unless that new deed preparation, notarized signature and official recording is completed, you remain the owner of record in the eyes of the law and you remain fully responsible for any and all maintenance fees, special assessments, etc. until such time as a formal, lawful ownership transfer is fully completed. Good luck.
 
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YAIKKS!!!

I had my husband read your comments @Theo.
Looks like we are screwed again.
Maybe, we will NOT cancel and just make use of that 800$/ yearly fee
with RCI points..
 
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theo

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<snip> Maybe, we will NOT cancel and just make use of that 800$/ yearly fee with RCI points..

That is entirely your own personal choice and decision --- just as both of the several previous voluntary purchases were also your own personal choices and decisions.

To clarify one relevant point, you would not actually be "cancelling" anything --- "cancelling" is not even an option for you to unilaterally exercise at this (too late) point.
More accurately stated, LVC is apparently willing to voluntarily accept a "deedback" (which they are never actually obligated to do) if you are willing to just voluntarily give your ownership back to them, by executing the Quit Claim deed which is presumably soon to be en route to you for your notarized signatures and return to LVC.

Legacy VC already has (and fully intends to keep) at least $10,000 from you (plus all maintenance fees collected since 2008), so they are certainly in a position to be somewhat "agreeable". They may simply take your deed back (at no cost to them except postage and minimal recording fees), releasing you from all future obligations.
LVC will then just turn around and sell that exact same product all over again to someone else. A very nice deal --- for them anyhow, to just "rinse, lather and repeat".

Your current ownership likely has little or no resale market value (particularly if those "RCI Points" you bought into disappear upon each resale; that depends entirely upon Legacy VC policy). If that disappearing points gig is the case, then what you own now is literally just about worthless in the resale market. Your choices seem to be to either just cut your losses and bail out now permanently via what is apparently a "deedback" acceptance offer from Legacy, or just continue to pay the hefty maintenance (not "membership") fees each year in order to extract whatever benefit you can from using the associated RCI Points (of unspecified number anywhere within your posts).

It's entirely your choice and entirely your decision to make. Good luck.
 
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