Forget Ebola the Anti Vax movement is killing us [2014]

easyrider · Oct 12, 2014

Beaglemom3 said:
Here's my opinion and I have many years of experience in the medical-legal aspects of SAEs (serious adverse events) in vaccines, diagnostics and drugs including chemotherapeutics.

You are entitled to yours, but it would be refreshing if they were based on peer-reviewed scientific studies and not Jenny McCarthyisms. I appreciate a good argument. I am paid to construct good ones and to deconstruct bad ones (even good ones), but we have to be on the same playing field or it won't work. It's like arguing space flight with flat-earthers.

The majority of vaccines work, are safe and the data is not faked.
And that's not from BigPharma findings, but backed up by investigative studies with data gleaned over decades from independent universities-medical/public health schools from around the world.

How do you think smallpox was eradicated from most of the world ? By anti-vaxxer mentality ?

The outbreaks of diseases that shouldn't be happening are occurring because of the anti-vaxxers mantra of "don't vaccinate your kids, it's evil and will harm your child". That's what's dangerous and the kids will suffer needlessly because of it.
It's not necessary and is causing REAL problems.

There are vaccinations that really are lifesaving and disease/disability preventing such as polio, tetanus, Hep A & B, diphtheria, rubella, rubeola, varicella, meningitis even Rabies & Japanese Enchephalitis when needed. Gardisil/HPV is still being studied and the jury is still out on this one.

Because of this, the misinformed antivaxxers are lumping it with ALL vaccinations and chasing shadows even with vital vaccinations.

Please view each vaccination individually, don't lump them all into one.

There is a middle ground. There are some doctors who are only against MMR and other combo type immunizations They believe in vaccinating on a safer schedule i.e., only one vaccine per month or every two weeks. In Iceland and Sweden they have reduced and safer vaccine schedules. Studies show that these countries have better infant mortality rates. Causal or not ?

Remember that you can have adverse reactions to novacaine, aspirin, ibuprofen, antibiotics, acetaminophen, decongestants, antihistamines and on & on.

This is a pretty good explanation of why vaccines should be administered.

:clap:

Bill

Beaglemom3 · Oct 13, 2014

easyrider said:
This is a pretty good explanation of why vaccines should be administered.

Bill

Bill,
Thanks. There are better points that could be made, but this is my spin.

Forgot to say that it depends on one's allergies; eggs, thimerosal, latex, etc.

I can remember when Polio was epidemic and we were all lined up for our shots or the sugar cube at school. The smallpox "scratch" vaccination, too.

Our parents did it to keep us safe as well as "the nation safe" as that's what the "Greatest Generation" did.

Take care, stay well.

Beaglemom3 · Oct 13, 2014

Here are three PBS documentaries on vaccines and Ebola. Very educational and thought-provoking.

It's a conversation and a good starting point for both sides.

Yes, the film shows both sides, so you should know this going in, there are those who have been hurt because of being exposed to unvaccinated people, those who have been hurt by vaccines themselves and those who have died from not being vaccinated.

Autism is addressed as well.

They are worth watching to gain understanding of both sides.

You can watch them on line in their entirety.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/making-vaccines.html Making Vaccines.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/vaccines-calling-shots.html Calling the Shots.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/surviving-ebola.html Surviving Ebola.

rapmarks · Oct 13, 2014

Beaglemom3 said:
A good read and PBS special: (one of the scientists at work has this poster in his cubicle).

-

I remember the 50's and the big polio scare, and the vaccine coming out I had a neighbor campaigning against the vaccine then, and none of her children were inoculated.

MULTIZ321 · Oct 13, 2014

A Polar Bear Might Keep the Measles Away, But Shots Work Better - by Nancy Shute/ Shots: Health News from NPR/ npr.org

"In the bestselling Ivy and Bean books, 7-year-old Bean puts a lot of energy into avoiding chores and reading. So when her friend Ivy brings up measles shots, Bean is ready with alternatives:

Wear a hazmat suit for the rest of your life.
Make an anti-measles force field with 24 hula hoops.
Cover yourself in a 6-inch protective layer of lard.

The inventive duo will soon be appearing on posters in pediatricians' offices as part of an effort by the American Academy of Pediatrics and international public health organizations to get children vaccinated.

Measles cases spiked in the United States this year, with 594 cases and 18 outbreaks, the highest number since 2000. They were caused by people traveling to the U.S. and infecting people who hadn't had measles shots..."

ivy-bean-lead-art_custom-c90ecd777a67cb3bff34d8a3197370b709dd8e71-s40-c85.jpg

The heroines of a best-selling book series have been enlisted in the global effort to eradicate measles.
Sophie Blackall

Richard

Clemson Fan · Oct 13, 2014

Beaglemom3 said:
Bill,
Thanks. There are better points that could be made, but this is my spin.

Forgot to say that it depends on one's allergies; eggs, thimerosal, latex, etc.

I can remember when Polio was epidemic and we were all lined up for our shots or the sugar cube at school. The smallpox "scratch" vaccination, too.

Our parents did it to keep us safe as well as "the nation safe" as that's what the "Greatest Generation" did.

Take care, stay well.

Just a slight correction. Thimersal has been removed from all vaccines except the flu shot. However it's not in the flu live attenuated nasal spray vaccine which provides an alternative.

I've seen the allergy to eggs excuse used the most by health care workers to get out of getting their required flu shot. Of course most of them list this "allergy" right after throwing away their egg mc muffin wrapper.

I personally get every vaccine I can. If they make adjustments to the flu shot kid season then I'll get another one. I believe the more I can augment my immune system the better. The worst one was yellow fever! That gave me a bitchin headache!

easyrider · Oct 13, 2014

While I will be a user of vaccines after reading the information on the particular vaccine, I can't blame others who are some what anti vax. If you look at the Amish population that doesn't regularly use vaccinations as an example of an anti vax group the entire vaccine for all idealism becomes questionable. Labeling anti vax groups "derogatory or conspiracy" is short sighted, imo.

Recently there has been an out break of entrovirus in the USA. The children that received the MMR vaccination seem to be the the children not immune to this virus. While this information is not on any CCD or medical study yet it will soon be, imo.

Bill

Clemson Fan · Oct 13, 2014

easyrider said:
Recently there has been an out break of entrovirus in the USA. The children that received the MMR vaccination seem to be the the children not immune to this virus. While this information is not on any CCD or medical study yet it will soon be, imo.

Bill

Bill, you always have a good chuckle on hand! Thank-you for that! It's needed after our Seahawks laid an egg yesterday!

Patri · Oct 13, 2014

The Amish population doesn't mix with the general population, so not relevant to compare the two. Exposure and risk not the same. If a disease got in, could significantly harm the entire troupe.

Beaglemom3 · Oct 13, 2014

Clemson Fan said:
Just a slight correction. Thimersal has been removed from all vaccines except the flu shot. However it's not in the flu live attenuated nasal spray vaccine which provides an alternative.

I've seen the allergy to eggs excuse used the most by health care workers to get out of getting their required flu shot. Of course most of them list this "allergy" right after throwing away their egg mc muffin wrapper.

I personally get every vaccine I can. If they make adjustments to the flu shot kid season then I'll get another one. I believe the more I can augment my immune system the better. The worst one was yellow fever! That gave me a bitchin headache!

Actually, I was referencing vaccines in general and included in there was the flu shot. Thank you for bringing it out.

VacationForever · Oct 13, 2014

easyrider said:
Recently there has been an out break of entrovirus in the USA. The children that received the MMR vaccination seem to be the the children not immune to this virus. While this information is not on any CCD or medical study yet it will soon be, imo.

Bill

No fact, and yet... this information will soon be. Don't I just love people who make up sxxx?

MULTIZ321 · Jan 25, 2015

Anti-vaxxers Fingered in Disney Measles Outbreak - by Jack Dickey/ Health/ time.com

Doctors group urges measles shots as Disneyland outbreak spreads

A spokesman for the California state health department has told Reuters that he believes “unvaccinated individuals have been the principal factor” in a mid-December measles outbreak at Disneyland that has infected more than 70 people in six western states and Mexico, including five Disney employees

Richard

Jestjoan · Jan 26, 2015

Vaccinosis in pets

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/dr-patricia-jordan-vaccine-insights-webinar/

This webinar started us thinking about vaccines. We fired our postcard sending vet.

pgnewarkboy · Jan 26, 2015

Its simple. Its science. Its proven. Children's vaccinations work, protect your children, and other people and their children. IMO it should be a crime to refuse to vaccinate your child. Punishment should be a large fine .

billymach4 · Jan 26, 2015

pgnewarkboy said:
Its simple. Its science. Its proven. Children's vaccinations work, protect your children, and other people and their children. IMO it should be a crime to refuse to vaccinate your child. Punishment should be a large fine .

Like +1

How do the antivax people think the small pox virus was eradicated from the planet? All children got immunized. Common sense. :wall:

VegasBella · Jan 26, 2015

Vaccine rates are stable or increasing, so there's not a huge reason to fear the anti-vax movement. And in fact, most of the unvaxed or under-vaxed children out there are poor children whose parents have trouble finishing the series (getting boosters, etc). The anti-vaxers pose a threat but it's relatively low considering that most people vaccinate their children.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/most-us-children-get-vaccines-but-some-states-do-better-than-others/

What's more, those of us who promote vaccination are likely not being effective with our messaging. The anti-vaxers don't change their minds.

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/02/vaccine-denial-psychology-backfire-effect

So, it's better to focus on the poor families who want vaccination but who don't get it due to circumstance. If we can bump those numbers up then herd immunity increases and the risk the anti-vaxers pose is reduced.

easyrider · Jan 27, 2015

Im back from a trip to Mexico where I thought I was getting shingles. Anyway, I had a kidney stone is what we think so my doctor said to wait until Im older for the shingle vaccination as the vaccine is a one time vaccination that protects you for about 10 years. I think I have 6 or 7 years to go before I should consider it.

Bill

easyrider · Jan 27, 2015

sptung said:
No fact, and yet... this information will soon be. Don't I just love people who make up sxxx?

Im not sure what you mean as there really isn't much substance to your doltish statement, but I guess now would be considered soon.

Enthrovirus is now for the most part called acute flaccid myelitis. Children with a weak immune systems occasionally become kind of paralyzed with this condition. The mmr vaccine can weaken an infant or child's immune system.

Health Alert

Winter, 2015

CDC is working with healthcare professionals and state and local officials to investigate reports of children in the U.S. hospitalized with muscle weakness or paralysis mostly in their arms and legs. This illness is now being called acute flaccid myelitis. These children are being tested for poliovirus, West Nile virus, and enteroviruses. Investigations into these and other possible infectious and non-infectious causes are ongoing. See Investigation of Acute Flaccid Myelitis in U.S. Children, 2014.

Non-Polio Enterovirus

Non-polio enteroviruses are very common and can infect anyone. Most people who get infected with these viruses do not get sick or they only have mild illness, like the common cold. But some people can have serious complications, especially infants and people with weakened immune systems…

Bill

pedro47 · Jan 27, 2015

MULTIZ321 said:
A Polar Bear Might Keep the Measles Away, But Shots Work Better - by Nancy Shute/ Shots: Health News from NPR/ npr.org

"In the bestselling Ivy and Bean books, 7-year-old Bean puts a lot of energy into avoiding chores and reading. So when her friend Ivy brings up measles shots, Bean is ready with alternatives:

Wear a hazmat suit for the rest of your life.
Make an anti-measles force field with 24 hula hoops.
Cover yourself in a 6-inch protective layer of lard.

The inventive duo will soon be appearing on posters in pediatricians' offices as part of an effort by the American Academy of Pediatrics and international public health organizations to get children vaccinated.

Measles cases spiked in the United States this year, with 594 cases and 18 outbreaks, the highest number since 2000. They were caused by people traveling to the U.S. and infecting people who hadn't had measles shots..."

The heroines of a best-selling book series have been enlisted in the global effort to eradicate measles.
Sophie Blackall

Richard

Loved your drawing !

Clemson Fan · Jan 27, 2015

easyrider said:
Im not sure what you mean as there really isn't much substance to your doltish statement, but I guess now would be considered soon.

Enthrovirus is now for the most part called acute flaccid myelitis. Children with a weak immune systems occasionally become kind of paralyzed with this condition. The mmr vaccine can weaken an infant or child's immune system.

Bill

Bill, do you understand what you're writing? You mix up things and then write them as facts.

Just look at your most recent quote. You say, "Enterovirus is now for the most part called acute flaccid myelitis." What? The health alert you quoted just stated that children with this condition are being tested for enterovirus as well as a lot of other things. Nowhere does it say or even insinuate enterovirus is now called acute flaccid myelitis.

You then state that the MMR vaccine can weaken a child's immune system. Again, not close to being true. In fact the opposite is true. There's ample scientific evidence that the MMR strengthens the immune system by helping children to develop and produce the necessary antibodies to fight off measles, mumps and rubella.

easyrider · Jan 27, 2015

Probably not.

The cdc quote seems to be calling these paralytic symptoms acute flaccid myelitis which is different than entrovirius unless the enthrovirus is part the paralysis. Does that seem right ?

http://www.medicaldaily.com/pulse/m...s-kids-across-us-it-caused-enterovirus-318168

“Since September 2014, [the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention] CDC and partners have been investigating reports of children across the United States who developed a sudden onset of weakness in one or more arms or legs with MRI scans that showed inflammation of the gray matter — nerve cells — in the spinal cord,” according to the CDC. “This illness is now being referred to as acute flaccid myelitis.”

As far as the mmr vacination I would agree that it is safe for > 99% of the people that take it. The cdc has this info.

MMR vaccine side-effects
(Measles, Mumps, and Rubella)
What are the risks from MMR vaccine?
A vaccine, like any medicine, is capable of causing serious problems, such as severe allergic reactions.
The risk of MMR vaccine causing serious harm, or death, is extremely small.
Getting MMR vaccine is much safer than getting measles, mumps or rubella.
Most people who get MMR vaccine do not have any serious problems with it.
Mild Problems
Fever (up to 1 person out of 6)
Mild rash (about 1 person out of 20)
Swelling of glands in the cheeks or neck (about 1 person out of 75)
If these problems occur, it is usually within 7-12 days after the shot. They occur less often after the second dose.
Moderate Problems
Seizure (jerking or staring) caused by fever (about 1 out of 3,000 doses)
Temporary pain and stiffness in the joints, mostly in teenage or adult women (up to 1 out of 4)
Temporary low platelet count, which can cause a bleeding disorder (about 1 out of 30,000 doses)
Severe Problems (Very Rare)
Serious allergic reaction (less than 1 out of a million doses)
Several other severe problems have been reported after a child gets MMR vaccine, including:
Deafness
Long-term seizures, coma, or lowered consciousness
Permanent brain damage

Bill

MULTIZ321 · Jan 31, 2015

Holding Accountable Those Who Sow Doubt About Vaccines - by Keith Kloor/ Collide-a-Scape/ DiscoverMagazine.com

"The Disney Measles Outbreak Spotlights Vaccine-Averse Behavior...

Richard

MULTIZ321 · Jan 31, 2015

What Sweden Can Teach America About Measles Vaccinations - by Joyce Hackel/ Health & Medicine/ Public Radio International/ pri.org

"The measles outbreak that apparently had its start at Disneyland is leaping borders every day. There are more than 90 cases so far, reaching beyond California to at least six other US states as well as Mexico.

Yes, there's a measles shot, but in recent years, more Americans aren't getting the vaccination that provides coverage for measles, mumps and German measles, also known as rubella. In some areas of California, 13 percent of young children haven't been immunized. Compare that with a place like Sweden, where vaccination coverage is estimated to include all but 5 percent of the entire population.

That's because Swedes show up for all sorts of optional immunizations in droves, providing the sort of "herd immunity" that Americans can only envy.

Elizabeth Bruenig, a staff writer at The New Republic, says Swedes tend to approach vaccination campaigns very differently than Americans do..."

Ten-month old Lauren Durbin receives an injection for measles, mumps and rubella.
Credit:Rebecca Naden/Reuters

Richard

boyblue · Feb 1, 2015

I can't ever remember posting on a thread without reading every post but I just happened upon this thread this morning and without reading a single post I'm gonna share my opinion.

My Grandmother (and I'm sure others

used to say "education ain sense"

Even if you agree with the anti-vaccination folks that there is a correlation between vaccination and epilepsy (and other bad things - including death) the alternative is so dire I don't get why there is even a conversation.

easyrider · Feb 2, 2015

boyblue said:
I can't ever remember posting on a thread without reading every post but I just happened upon this thread this morning and without reading a single post I'm gonna share my opinion.

My Grandmother (and I'm sure others used to say "education ain sense"

Even if you agree with the anti-vaccination folks that there is a correlation between vaccination and epilepsy (and other bad things - including death) the alternative is so dire I don't get why there is even a conversation.

It could be that the CDC manipulated data to approve certain vaccinations and the other scientific studies that suggests some vaccines are harmful.

Here is a recent study that suggests that the flu vaccine increasinse the odds of getting sick.
http://globalnews.ca/news/1804162/canadian-study-finds-flu-shot-could-increase-risk-of-getting-sick/

Then you have a CDC scientist claiming the mmr vacine was fast tracked to approval using ommited data.

My name is William Thompson. I am a Senior Scientist with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, where I have worked since 1998. I regret that my coauthors and I omitted statistically significant information in our 2004 article published in the journal Pediatrics. The omitted data suggested that African American males who received the MMR vaccine before age 36 months were at increased risk for autism. Decisions were made regarding which findings to report after the data were collected, and I believe that the final study protocol was not followed.

Mercury and lead in small amounts is harmful to human health. Why are these chemicals allowed to be used as ingredients in vaccines ?

The other question that is being asked is "If vaccines really work why are 97% of children vaccinated for infectious disease actually catching the infectious disease they were vaccinated for.

Bill

Forget Ebola the Anti Vax movement is killing us [2014]

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