At what point do maintenance fee have to rise so that it is no longer worth having a

I was just wondering what your thoughts are about how high maintenance fees have to rise before it is not worth having a timeshare?
For example I got a WKORV on the secondary market at a good price. I plan to give it to my kids so for them the initial cost is moot. But will they want to be burdened with ever rising maintenance fees? Wil they rise so much that it is not worth it?
Currently the fees for a 2bdr lock off is about $350/night. That is a lot of nice living space in a nice resort for $350. Or you can even get two weeks if you split the unit.
I have two weeks and two kids. One for each but I wonder if they even want it.
Any thoughts? My kids are 18 and 13 so I have some time but have any of you with older kids thought about this?
I had always hoped that they would continue the Maui vacation tradition but when they get their own lives they may have different ideas.
Worst case at least with Maui they could always get something for it and not be stuck with ever rising MF for something they might not use.
Thanks
RT

That Question Absolutely Nails The Timeshare Conundrum.

Maintenance fees at our original dinky points timeshare escalated to the point that there was no value -- none, zippity-doodah -- in continuing to own it. Fortunately the resort willingly took it back via quitclaim deed, so we got out of it painlessly.

Fees at our nice Orlando 3BR lock-off timeshares rose to the point that we could no longer count on renting'm out for enough to cover the fees plus a little extra for our own Last Call offseason vacations at other people's timeshares. So we gave those away too -- 1 to a fellow TUG-BBS member, the other back to the timeshare company that muscled its way into control of the resort.

For us, the attraction in timeshare vacationing is luxury timeshare condos at Motel 6 & Super 8 rates. When we can't do that any more, then we will call it quits with timeshares.

Till then, we will keep on taking advantage of RCI Last Calls & special sales on Extra Vacation Getaways, etc. So far, so good.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

Alan wants to enjoy luxury timeshare condos at motel prices

Im happy as long as the mf cost is less than what a comparable vacation rental costs

If maintenance fees exceed what it would cost to rent.. its time to get out

Yes I totally agree. I have no idea but I imagine that Maui hotel prices have gone up as much as our MF's have gone up. Sheraton Black Rock was very expensive last I remember and that was years ago.
RT

Just checked expedia. Wow! Premium room, 400 sq ft with ocean view at Westin on Maui is $515 plus $31 resort fee. Same for Hayat and Sheraton and Marriot. WOW!

trexmdr said:

Yes I totally agree. I have no idea but I imagine that Maui hotel prices have gone up as much as our MF's have gone up. Sheraton Black Rock was very expensive last I remember and that was years ago.
RT

Click to expand...

my favorite example is the Mardi Gras event week I have at the Avenue Plaza Resort in New Orleans.. Hotels go for over $300 a night My mf for a studio "with a kitchen" is under $600 for the week

I'm sure we are all aware of posts from people who no longer want to 'participate' in their timeshare for a variety of reasons. There are more from those who are doing 'estate' planning and do not want to burden a loved one with their ownership.

This got me to thinking...there are various persons on TUG who consider Timeshare Abandonment to be a moral crime against those who remain as owners. And yet, I'm thinking these same people consider the 'drop it like a hot potato when you die' exit strategy to be an acceptable method of ending timeshare ownership. And so, eventually there will be timeshares with escalating Maintenance Fees that exceed the value to owners.

What then?

I looked at what I received vs what I paid. I have 6 MF to pay for Wyndham.

Last year I pooled about 50% of my points, so this year I booked about 150% of my MFs. Ok that makes 9 MFs to pay.

This year I booked 147 days, or 21 weeks worth of exchanges. For 9 MFs. I certainly got more than 9 weeks, I more that double that. So I stretch my MFs into more nights.

ronparise said:

If maintenance fees exceed what it would cost to rent.. its time to get out

Click to expand...

Agreed. Why own when there is no economic benefit to ownership?

There are always risks to ownership (increasing MF's, special assessments, etc.). If one is not compensated for these risks in the form of "cheap rent", then it's time to get rid of the unit.

Maintencei fees

vacationtime1 said:

Agreed. Why own when there is no economic benefit to ownership?

There are always risks to ownership (increasing MF's, special assessments, etc.). If one is not compensated for these risks in the form of "cheap rent", then it's time to get rid of the unit.

Click to expand...

Our first timeshare was a small one bedroom RTU that traded great and maintenance was low. We decided not to renew the lease when the maintence fee rose and the unit was not being kept up. If I pay my maintenance fees and have address problems I expect them to be fixed. We love the timeshares we now have and two of them are RTU, so when they expire we will not renew only because of our age. Hope this helps with your question?
Silentg

vacationtime1 said:

Agreed. Why own when there is no economic benefit to ownership?

There are always risks to ownership (increasing MF's, special assessments, etc.). If one is not compensated for these risks in the form of "cheap rent", then it's time to get rid of the unit.

Click to expand...

I love when simple answers are given for complex question {sarcasm}

I also agree, but to use only hotel rates as the comparator is misleading. It should be what it would cost to rent from all sources.

WSJ charges ~$700 per nite for our TS (MF ~$2400 per week), but in many cases you can rent for a bit over MF. This is the case for many VSE VOIs.

There is also the consideration of availability and location in owning vs. renting.

For WPORV - I like owning because of scoring one of the handful of incredible villas. Others do not care - so VSN or II works for them, but perhaps because they have never stayed in these villas. Probably could not recover WPORV MFs by renting, but villa location over rules this consideration.

btw- this is the VSE forum (notice how VSE examples were used...)
non-VSE experiences - while interesting - are out of scope for this forum. Perhaps moving to a different forum would help?

It is challenging to calculate for sure. For me, the best values are in exchanges. A few years ago, I exchanged into WSJ using my Orlando timeshares. For about $2,100 in MF, we had a week that would have cost over $10,000 if paying Westin's regular rate. To me, that's a great value! But, then I have to think about how much I paid to get those weeks (bought developer before TUG) and how much it would have cost to rent the week from an owner vs. from the resort. So in the end, am I really saving that much?

And then for the Orlando weeks, with MF at about $1100 each, it is challenging to get full value there, especially when there are so many cheap deals via II or owner rentals. The one thing I will say is that I value the flexibility. This year, I split my week into two smaller vacations. In total, I would have had to pay over $2500 if paying the resort's regular rate, more than twice the price of my MF. That seems like a decent value to me, as I also had the flexibility to choose the exact dates and unit types I wanted, something I would likely not have been able to do when renting from another owner.

I know everyone talks about converting to Starpoints as a bad value, but if you do it carefully, you can get some nice value, well above the MF.

To me it is a function of the following -

# What did you pay for the Week?
# What is the dollar cost of the MF?
# How much does it cost in travel expenses to get to the Resort?
# How often do you plan to use the Week?
# Is there anything unique about the Week like being a Fixed Week/Fixed
Unit beachfront?
# Is it a Resort almost impossible to trade into?

George

I compare timeshare MFs to the cost of renting a similarly nice condo at a similarly nice resort.

Interesting to see that Nanea in Maui is now listed on the SPG site as being able to be booked in 2017 by Joe Blow Traveler.

The one bedroom units are $599.00 plus taxes ($4755.53 for 7 nights); so I guess I'm okay for awhile.

The two bedrooms are: $819.00 plus taxes ($6502.14 for 7 nights).

The three bedrooms, you look it up. $$$

You can save $10/night if you will accept penalties for cancelling, but I really can't imagine if you are spending that much, why bother?

Looks like it's possibly being considered as a category 6. Same as the WKORV.

At any rate, I imagine the maintenance fees would have to really creep up for it to be $4500 or more for my 1-bedroom (it's $1440 right now including the membership fee). I'm expecting it to go up, after it's finished being built. Though people with those 3 bedrooms are gonna get a jolt.

Wow $600/night is a bit pricey. Wasn't quite expecting that.


The WKORV is listed at $549/night for the 1 bedroom, $669 for the 2 bedroom, through the SPG site.

Not sure about rate changes during the year (I'm NOT that interested)...


Well, will try and enjoy the place and hope I get some nice vacations out of it; since I bought from the developer I got royally screwed...

As long as you use your ownership, you're not screwed! Whatever you saw that made your purchase worthwhile is still there. Sure you paid more than buying resale, but the price made sense to you before.

I have enjoyed my ownership since I bought (also from the developer, pre construction of WKORV and then also at WKORV-N) and I don't regret the memories and good times I've had going to Maui all these years. I would have preferred to pay less, but the ownership made sense to me even at the higher price, and I was not wrong that timesharing in Hawaii was what I wanted.

Almost 15 years later, and my now grown kids are still enjoying traveling with their parents and enjoying a second home on Maui. Timesharing makes more sense to us than full ownership, and even developer cost is not far off from dividing the cost of an ocean front property of this caliber by the number of weeks we own. Maintenance fees are high, but I'd probably be paying more if I fully owned a property that I only could use for about the same number of timeshare weeks I own.

I don't intend to sell my weeks. My daughter already asked for them when we no longer want them, and she has the resources to use them. As long as I don't sell, I haven't really lost anything. I'd rather concentrate on my enjoyment of the place than on what I coulda, shoulda done many years ago. It is a great place no matter what.

Yes.. for me is
-How often do you travel_vacation a year? right now A lot! every 3 months we go places we would never be able to afford if we didn't have TS.

bogey21 said:

To me it is a function of the following -

# What did you pay for the Week?
# What is the dollar cost of the MF?
# How much does it cost in travel expenses to get to the Resort?
# How often do you plan to use the Week?
# Is there anything unique about the Week like being a Fixed Week/Fixed
Unit beachfront?
# Is it a Resort almost impossible to trade into?

George

Click to expand...

I totally agree about the value if you use it and as I posted earlier, have you see the prices at the Sheraton Black Rock or the Westin?
$500 or more /night and that does not include the daily $30 resort fee for a 400 sq ft room.
So I think maintenance fees have risen with hotel costs.

This year we have spent 65 nights in a timeshare room. We pay roughly 10k year in MF. That works out to $153 a night.
I have retired. We spent 21 nights this year in Hawaii. I never would have considered that if I have to pay $300 night at a hotel ( $7200). I picked $300 a night out of a hat as it probably cost more.
This can be sliced many ways but it has worked out well for us. Just another way to look at the world.

emuyshondt said:

As long as you use your ownership, you're not screwed! Whatever you saw that made your purchase worthwhile is still there. Sure you paid more than buying resale, but the price made sense to you before.

I have enjoyed my ownership since I bought (also from the developer, pre construction of WKORV and then also at WKORV-N) and I don't regret the memories and good times I've had going to Maui all these years. I would have preferred to pay less, but the ownership made sense to me even at the higher price, and I was not wrong that timesharing in Hawaii was what I wanted.

Click to expand...

Yeah, you are right. The place is lovely. But So is WKORV! It's also a very fancy place!!! And it's Maui, for heaven's sake. And it's on the beach!

I never would have considered a TS ever if I hadn't gotten that $695 5 night stay at the Sheraton Black Rock (which is actually quite lovely too).

However, in retrospect, would have been happier with a WKORV resale. Lovely place.

But had no idea at the time.

bogey21 said:

To me it is a function of the following -

# What did you pay for the Week?
# What is the dollar cost of the MF?
# How much does it cost in travel expenses to get to the Resort?
# How often do you plan to use the Week?
# Is there anything unique about the Week like being a Fixed Week/Fixed
Unit beachfront?
# Is it a Resort almost impossible to trade into?

George

Click to expand...

I would add:
Is location preference important as an Owner vs. exchanger? (this is important to us for WKORV and WPORV)
What is the fair market rental value relative to MF? (this adds value to WKV Plat+)

emuyshondt said:

As long as you use your ownership, you're not screwed! Whatever you saw that made your purchase worthwhile is still there. Sure you paid more than buying resale, but the price made sense to you before.

Click to expand...

We use our ownerships (only one SVN exchange in 10 years: WKV to WKORV) as well and happy for the most part, and really have great villas and vacations. The only true words that came from SVO Sales is that you are investing in vacation.

I agree that one is getting what they bought except what makes purchase worthwhile could be its future value - then it certainly matters. And that does not remove the responsibility of researching and performing due diligence prior to buying something that costs $1000s with an ongoing $$ obligation with default penalties (car analogy does not fit here).

Knowing that you can buy resale for >50% less (w/ minor loss in incentives) before buying at full price is important (even if one chooses still to buy from Developer). Buying without full info is never wise.

But, certainly best to make the most of the purchase once it is made - and also an exit plan that may include selling (or leaving to kids if they can afford to take over...)

DW's interest in vacationing in Hawaii is what led me to timeshares in the first place; though I've only purchased mainland units to trade. Getting into Hilton Hawaiian Village via RCI is getting to be less attractive; other islands + Ko Olina are still a good value for me.

Also can't ignore TradingPlaces for renting a week at Wyndham Beachwalk as an alternative.

trexmdr said:

I totally agree about the value if you use it and as I posted earlier, have you see the prices at the Sheraton Black Rock or the Westin?
$500 or more /night and that does not include the daily $30 resort fee for a 400 sq ft room.
So I think maintenance fees have risen with hotel costs.

Click to expand...

To evaluate at what price Maintenance fees related to ownership is relative for a number of reasons.

Age how old are you hand how long will you use it is a factor as initial investment is based on years usage.

Taxes--Maui County is hammering Timeshare owners for Taxes in order to minimize taxing citizens. All Governments Fed, State and local are confronted by this issue--- How to deliver goods and services everyone expects while minimizing to voters.

Maintenance fees--- Compare values of properties versus actual maintenance fees. Tugg does not track that. A a practical matter what level of comfort do you want on vacation and what are the maintenance fees associated with your minimal comfort versus Vistana on Maui.

Keep in kind Maui is considered #1 Island in World and the fact the Sugar Cane industry is shut down as of year end and the debate of using property on MAUI for agricultural versus homes will take preeminence. I think a mixed usage will happen which means larger population, more homes, bigger demands on infrastructure i.e. more tax money needed will occur. Maui is expecting huge growth in Construction business--however at a point their will be a construction downturn and all the laid off workers will be at home needing subsidies. I think the building boom will be very temporary.



So to view whether it is worth it look at how long you will use, what expectations you have, what conveniences you want, what comfort and safety do you want, nearness to hospitals if older on vacation, etc.


It will be different for everyone and therefore no answer can be given to meet everyone's goals.


Scott

Our fees are now exceeding $1,650 for our Hono Koa oceanfront unit. The increase in fees is maddening. It's a very ordinary place, not fancy, but we love it.

The question we ask ourselves is, "What would a hotel room, oceanfront in West Maui, cost?" and we consider it's a 2 bedroom, 2 bathroom, with a great kitchen and a washer/dryer.

We have had some TUG members come by our unit, and all have said that it's not all that ordinary, especially when they sit on the lanai, 50 feet from the ocean and sand. We spend all morning, into the afternoon, on that lanai. It's hard to break away from the view to go on our drives.