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Poor Experience w TitleOutlet, The Timeshare Group & Ochoas

tandemrider

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I won an ebay auction on May 9th. Before bidding, I read as much as I could about the sellers, The Timeshare Group, and the closing company, TitleOutlet on TUG. I read that they are closely related and one or both businesses are owned by the Ochoas brothers. It has been alleged that the Ochoas brothers have opened and closed several businesses and it is difficult to tell what companies they own. The payment went to one of their paypal accounts so I am sure that they are an owner of The Timeshare Group. There wasn't much written and most (like those in this thread and others) said that they were OK, just slow and you had to stay on top of them.

I made several phone calls after my purchase and sent several letters and they seemed to be making slow but steady progress with my nudging them along. In early June I was told that my transaction had closed, my escrow had been disbursed and my deed sent to Hawaii for recording. After the Marriott changes on 6/20, I called again to determine the status of my closing and was assured that we were only waiting for the deed to be recorded. I even got a letter from Alexis, the supposed head of their "Post closing" department, stating the above info on 6/25. I started calling and writing this week after another month had passed to determine whether my deed had been recorded yet.

Much to my dismay, Alexis told me that my title hadn't been cleared and that wasn't even requested until 7/6! She was extremely rude, never once attempted to apologize for the long delays and blatant misinformation that I was provided and she refused to transfer me to her supervisor. She said that they were working on thousands of timeshare sales and couldn't move my file ahead of everyone else (thousands of sales - another obvious and blatant lie!) Eventually I was told that Jose Renta was the manager of Title Outlet, Inc and I called him today. He was only slightly less rude than Alexis. He tried to redefine "escrow" and "disburse" in their letter that was sent to me. He never apologized for the letter full of false statements or for the long delay and in fact said that it is not unusual for their company to take 5-6 mo or longer to close timeshare sales in Hawaii, not counting the time for Marriott to process the transaction. (Funny my last 3 closings with other title companies for the same resort in Hawaii didn't take nearly that long earlier this year!) The only thing that he said he was sorry for was my intention to fully describe my abysmal interactions with his company on this forum!

I had modified my sales contract before it was signed by the seller (? Illegible) and myself. It states that they can only extend the contract if there are delays in title clearance or recording that are "through no fault of their own". I believe that these delays were primarily through their own incompetence, the sales contract has been breached and I have the right to terminate the sale and to a full refund. Of course they refuse to acknowledge this so my only recourse would be to sue if I want out of the contract. I am so disgusted with dealing with Title Outlet that I would like to terminate these proceedings and get my money back but the legal fees are a major deterent.

My advice to all TUGGERS is to avoid any dealings with Title Outlet and The Timeshare Group. I suspect that the Ochoas will simply close Title Outlet if their business falls of due to dissatisfaction and reopen it with another name. All of this comes back to the Ochas brothers, the alleged owners, whom I would now obviously want to avoid buying from even if it meant losing out on a "great deal".
 

DaveNV

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I won't try to argue the experience you had with them. I'm sorry it's been such a problem, and I can appreciate your frustration. If you won the auction May 9th, and it's in Hawaii, I'd be especially surprised to have one close this quickly. It's barely been 60 days. I sold a timeshare in Hawaii earlier this year, pushed the escrow through myself, and it still took nearly three months to close, by the time all the people involved had their hands on the paperwork.

But I will say I've bought several timeshares through the Ochoas, and I had no issues, other than it taking several months for things to finally close. Based on my personal experience, if I was in the market to buy another timeshare, I would probably buy from the Ochoas again. :shrug:

Hope you get things resolved to your satisfaction.

Dave
 

DeniseM

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I'm sorry that you've been mislead and treated disrespectfully, but I agree with Dave - I would expect it to take 3-4 mos. minimum, to close.
 

aliikai2

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Before anything could happen

Once you paid they had to Mail this to Marriott for their 1st right of refusal.

So Friday May 7 Monday or Tuesday May 10-11 they sent your the email to fill in for transfer on or around about May 20 I would imagine they snail mailed it to Marriott.

Then Marriott is slow to respond and that are allowed up to 30 days once they receive, so now it is June 27 and now they can start sending deeds to Hawaii for recording.

Depending upon which system your deed needs to be recorded into, this will take from 3 to 6 additional weeks.

So on the early side, July 19 to August 9th, then back to Marriott for the account change, another 30 to 45 days.

I hope by now that you see the trail and what needs to occur.

I have dealt with both bothers and Jose and they have always been pleasant.

I can however imagine that based upon the tone of your post, you may have encountered some resistance or perceived disrespect. :ignore:

I would advise to to relax and let this close as they always do, some things in life don't get done at immediate gratification speed.

fwiw,

Greg
 
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rickandcindy23

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ttt closed one in Hawaii for us, and it was a total of about five weeks, and that was with mail going back and forth between Hawaii, the east coast (where Alan is) and my house in the middle. Best ever transfer we have done in HI.

Title Outlet, specifically Jose and his crew, can be rather rude. I found this when I was buying a Foxrun from Thomas a few years ago.

We were at Maui Lea at Maui Hill, on vacation, and had to deal with their company for hours. It was several weeks after paying for a week 26 at Foxrun (NC), and I received an email from someone at Title Outlet, basically telling me that Wyndham confirmed the unit as theirs. I said, "No, this is Foxrun, not Wyndham." Big debate about how great their Wyndham contact was, and how they definitely manage the property, etc. A TUG friend and co-owner at Foxrun (now a board member) gave me Foxrun's manager's name and email. She had to step in to bring a little truth to the matter. It was a disaster, in my opinion. And guess what? No apology from Jose or his employee when they found out they were wrong. Not impressive at all. They make a lot of money for the garbage service you get back.
 

Carolinian

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It is situations like this that illustrate why you should always insist, where possible, that you use a qualified closer of your own choice in the state where the timeshare is located. Forcing you to use their wholly owned closer is a big conflict of interest.

Many states require by law that any third person who is not a party to the deed who prepares a deed must be a licensed attorney in the state where the timeshare is located. Some, such as North Carolina also make it a criminal offense for an unlicensed person to prepare a deed. This gives you a lot of leverage with the eBay sellers. If I was dealing with such a person, I would write them an email after winning the bid and specifically ask who would be preparing the deed and what his/her State Bar number in the state the time was located in was. I would cite the state law requiring preparation by a properly licensed attorney. I would copy the email to eBay and to the State Bar of the state where the timeshare was located. I would bet they would back off on trying to require their own closer. If not, I would go after them via the State Bar and always keep eBay in the loop.
 

am1

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Sorry for your situation but this is probably more normal than you would think when dealing with ebay sellers and their inhouse closing company. One person is in charge of everything and keeping the money in escrow means nothing. They deal in a lot of timeshare sales and really do not care about your transaction. Just complain a lot and maybe you will get the closing fee refunded for your hassle.
 

nazclk

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Since this was a Marriott it might be different. I just sold a unit at Maui Lea
and got it closed (with Title Ins) in about 35 days, from the time the escrow company had the contract in hand. I don't know why everyone thinks it takes so long. Maybe you are dealing with the wrong companies. :ponder:
 

richardm

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There is also a new legal requirement signed into law on April 23, 2010. It requires the escrow holder for a transaction involving real estate located in Hawaii to actually be licensed in the state of Hawaii. This might also be causing issues with your closing.
 

l2trade

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Based on what others are saying, it looks like there are reasonable reasons why closing needs more time. I trust the advice Denise put forth. I hope things improve and get resolved favorably for you in the coming months. :)

I bought from them on eBay several years back. My experience was good. Maybe it was a little slower than others, but for the great price, I would do business with them again. Unless, of course, things have changed. So, please let us know the final outcome.
 

Robert D

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I've never bought from the Ochoa's but was going to bid on a summer week in Estes Park, CO where I had to pay for the current year's maintenance fee when the fixed week would probably pass before it got closed. I couldn't use that week and asked if they would make a reservation for a guest and they replied they'd be glad to for a $75 fee. Every seller I've bought from gladly made whatever reservations were needed at no charge and I thought their fee request was ridiculous. This was a big red flag for me and I didn't bid. There's way too many good deals out there to deal with sellers like them, IMHO.
 

Carolinian

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There is also a new legal requirement signed into law on April 23, 2010. It requires the escrow holder for a transaction involving real estate located in Hawaii to actually be licensed in the state of Hawaii. This might also be causing issues with your closing.

It would not surprise me if the eBay sellers tried to thumb their nose at this law as much as they do at other state laws. Eventually one of them will get smacked down hard on this, and they richly deserve it. I know the NC State Bar has sent letters of warning to many of the out of state timeshare closing companies which are breaking the North Carolina criminal law by preparing their own deeds. It would be good to see some of them try to test the Bar and find themselves on the recieving end of a criminal prosecution.
 

Dave*H

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I know the NC State Bar has sent letters of warning to many of the out of state timeshare closing companies which are breaking the North Carolina criminal law by preparing their own deeds.
Does this apply to sellers and buyers who prepare the deed themselves? I know several people who saved significantly on transfer costs by preparing the deed (by copying the prior deed and making the appropriate changes) and filing it themselves. This can be a fairly simple and cost effective way to transfer a title. For low value timeshares, there is little risk. Basically, who cares if your $1 timeshare off ebay turns out to have a questionable title? At some point, it may create some headaches for the resort, but in the meantime, they have a paying owner. Requiring attorney involvement for a timeshare transfer increases the cost to sell and puts that many more people in a position that they can't sell and have no alternative except paying big bucks to a PCC to unload. It would be better it there was a easy, inexpensive, step-by-step process making the transfer that individual owners could follow themselves.
 

strandlover

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I've never bought from the Ochoa's but was going to bid on a summer week in Estes Park, CO where I had to pay for the current year's maintenance fee when the fixed week would probably pass before it got closed. I couldn't use that week and asked if they would make a reservation for a guest and they replied they'd be glad to for a $75 fee. Every seller I've bought from gladly made whatever reservations were needed at no charge and I thought their fee request was ridiculous. This was a big red flag for me and I didn't bid. There's way too many good deals out there to deal with sellers like them, IMHO.

I strongly agree with this assessment. I have stayed away from sellers charging for making reservation fees, this particular seller included.

The other red flag is $500 closing fees. IMHO it's way too high when these companies have already received thousands from previous owners.
 

rickandcindy23

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I'm sorry that you've been mislead and treated disrespectfully, but I agree with Dave - I would expect it to take 3-4 mos. minimum, to close.

Only if the company is inept and leaving paperwork sitting on their desk for months at a time.
 

Carolinian

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Does this apply to sellers and buyers who prepare the deed themselves? I know several people who saved significantly on transfer costs by preparing the deed (by copying the prior deed and making the appropriate changes) and filing it themselves. This can be a fairly simple and cost effective way to transfer a title. For low value timeshares, there is little risk. Basically, who cares if your $1 timeshare off ebay turns out to have a questionable title? At some point, it may create some headaches for the resort, but in the meantime, they have a paying owner. Requiring attorney involvement for a timeshare transfer increases the cost to sell and puts that many more people in a position that they can't sell and have no alternative except paying big bucks to a PCC to unload. It would be better it there was a easy, inexpensive, step-by-step process making the transfer that individual owners could follow themselves.

No. Any person who is a party to the deed as a buyer or seller can legally prepare the deed. A corporate entity, however, would always have to have an attorney. Indeed from what I have seen recorded, such a person, if they are copying a deed prepared previously by a North Carolina attorney is much more likely to get it right than most of these out of state timeshare closing companies.

Some of these out of state closing companies purport to have the seller preparing the deed, but that is a rather transparent sham. It is pretty obvious which are the ones really copied from an old deed by a genuine owner and which are paper from one of these mills.

Most attorney prepared deeds cost little more than what these out of state closing companies charge and sometimes less. At some resorts, the HOA attorney will offer members to prepare deeds at reduced rates. Not too many years ago, one OBX HOA had their attorney willing to do deeds for members for $50, for example.

These void deeds can be a big problem for a resort. One HOA on the OBX decided it was so significant they needed to spend thousands of HOA dollars to fix the problem. IMHO that was something the owners should spend their own money on and the HOA spent that money inappropriately. Other HOA leaders took a more cost effective approach and asked the State Bar to crack down on these unqualified and unlicensed out of state timeshare closers who cause most of the problems.
 

sjuhawk_jd

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I have purchased several timeshares that were closed by Title Outlet. Every interaction with most of them is "Rude."

Timeshare closed without problems, but if you call to obtain status or to comment on why it is taking too long, the responses are "rude." They have our captive business, so why not! They also think that you are clueless in the closing/title/recording process, so try to give you canned answers fit for a kid. Most of us are savvy in timesharing, so I feel that they are insulting my intelligence.
 
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rickandcindy23

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I have purchased several timeshares that were closed by Title Outlet. Every interaction with most of them is "Rude."

Timeshare closed without problems, but if you call to obtain status or to comment on why it is taking too long, the responses are "rude." They have our captive business, so why not! They also think that you are clueless in the closing/title/recording process, so try to give you canned answers fit for a kid. Most of us are very knowleable in timesharing, so I feel that they are insulting my intelligence.

I agree with you completely. You get a different experience with Timeshare Closing Services, but the price is higher now for their product ($499!).

The way these companies acquire their timeshares seems to be their attitude with selling them. They show disdain for the product they sell, and the people who buy. Look past their beauitful ads on ebay, and the entire process is as sleazy as the developer presentation, but instead of disdain for timeshare, at least the developer "acts" like they love the product they sell.

When the people who sell you the resale timeshare have disdain for the product, and the developers sell it with lies, there has to be someplace in the middle, and we have found it. So we have to ignore all of the sellers and enjoy the bargains. I am never going on a timeshare presentation again, unless they offer me $500. :rofl:
 
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