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Sumday Vacations?

theo

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deleted inadvertent duplicate post; actual post is below....
 
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theo

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I understand why someone would be upset in this situation, but I don't think Sumday is scamming or frauding anyone here. Obviously there was an inventory error of some kind, and I'd be willing to be that Sumday will offer an explanation in this thread. Certainly they will refund all monies paid if she does not want to take the "lesser" unit. As for being notified on Friday close of business and them not being open all weekend.... well, if that's when they discovered the error, I wouldn't expect them to respond to phone calls or emails during non-business hours regardless of how many CAPITALIZED words it may contain.

With all due respect, you (and all of the rest of us) don't know all of the actual underlying facts here. Just for the record, no one has stated, suggested (or in any other way implied) the words "scam" or "fraud". Internal mistake due to careless human error? Maybe. A listing error? Maybe. Deliberate "bait and switch"? Maybe.
Let's let all the actual underlying facts get out on the table here before deciding or rendering any further opinions or judgments.

Personally, I believe that the basic, fundamental question here is whether Sumday Vacations knowingly backed out of a valid transaction solely on the basis of having been offered more money by someone else and, if so (or even if not), in what specific date / time sequence did events in this unfortunate matter evolve?
No answer will ultimately be verifiable from afar in any event, but the principal (Jeff Brown of Sumday Vacations) still needs to step up and offer an explanation.

Jeff Brown (and only Jeff Brown) can answer the pertinent questions on this matter --- directly, definitively and hopefully truthfully. Since the credibility of his operation is at stake with thousands of knowledgeable, "plugged in" timeshare owners and buyers here, Mr. Brown will be very hard pressed to choose silence over explanation. Certainly, he has stepped up before to wave his own flag when questioned or challenged. This is an excellent and appropriate opportunity to now do so once again.
 
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vacationhopeful

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Theo,

Will return their email today (or call them) later ... claimed the ad had the WRONG WEEK number - but correct unit number etc....

Week number I WANTED (and thought I brought) has the GREAT unit location over the week/unit available ....

I really don't want a 2/2 (plus the $1075+ MFs) nor do I want "back to back" units going from the great view to the annoying noisy unit (after paying $1100 next year & another $1100 for the 2nd week next year).

What to do???
 

Saintsfanfl

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Theo,

Will return their email today (or call them) later ... claimed the ad had the WRONG WEEK number - but correct unit number etc....

Week number I WANTED (and thought I brought) has the GREAT unit location over the week/unit available ....

I really don't want a 2/2 (plus the $1075+ MFs) nor do I want "back to back" units going from the great view to the annoying noisy unit (after paying $1100 next year & another $1100 for the 2nd week next year).

What to do???

Unfortunately listing errors are common place and Sumday is no exception. Many times the estoppel is in error, or the seller gave the wrong info and no estoppel verification was done. Sometimes the person posting the listing copied from a previous ad and failed to change all the details. It happens so often that I expect any listing I see to be a mistake until verification indicates that it is correct.

Here is a recent example. Two ebay auctions both for a Quarter House unit, one was by Sean and the other by DFC. I know Quarter House extremely well and both auctions contained serious errors. I notified them both. Sean basically told me to pound sand and not bid while Kyle Williams at DFC was very professional and grateful (and unfortunately had to pull his auction). In yet another example of a Quarter House error I bought one from Sumday that had the wrong unit number. They ended up having to do a deed correction to record the correct unit number. In all three of these cases the clerk at the Quarter House filled out the estoppels incorrectly.
 

theo

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Human error? Bait and Switch? Impossible to tell which with 3rd party resellers....

Theo,

Will return their email today (or call them) later ... claimed the ad had the WRONG WEEK number - but correct unit number etc....

Week number I WANTED (and thought I brought) has the GREAT unit location over the week/unit available ....

I really don't want a 2/2 (plus the $1075+ MFs) nor do I want "back to back" units going from the great view to the annoying noisy unit (after paying $1100 next year & another $1100 for the 2nd week next year).

What to do???

In the final analysis, you are unfortunately at the mercy of whatever explanation Sumday Vacations offers here; you frankly have little recourse as long as your purchase price was voluntarily, promptly and fully refunded (...or if your attempted payment was never actually processed to completion in the first place).

One of the unfortunate vagaries of Internet resales of timeshares when a third party (like Sumday) is involved is that you (and any and every other buyer) don't have (and can't get) documentation of the underlying unit / owner details associated with any given listing. As a result, the would-be buyer can never definitively distinguish between simple human error and willful "bait and switch" deception. This is exactly why some Internet reseller entities (not Sumday, to be fair here) are repeatedly "called out" for their blatantly obvious "bait and switch" tactics. After encountering far too many and too frequent "sorry, wrong unit / week was posted" claims to be either credible or statistically likely, careful and informed buyers then just permanently (and justifiably) turn their backs on those particular resellers from then on.

There is not much that you can do about this "3rd party nuance", which is exactly why I refuse to ever purchase resale timeshares from any "third party". If I can't examine the current recorded deed in a prospective purchase in order to verify for myself all of the unit / week / usage details, the conversation ends then and there. Even estoppels can be useless, sometimes just "manufactured" by the reseller, sometimes ineptly and /or inaccurately prepared by the actual management company. Deeds don't lie and if "alteration" is suspected, it's easy enough to find the recorded original (online or hard copy from the County Clerk office) for direct comparison.

I think it's clear you are not going to get that which you sought to purchase. I am sorry for that, since you were clearly fully aware of the details of the unit / week you thought that you were buying. What remains to be seen and evaluated is the credibility of the (hopefully detailed) explanation-to-be from Jeff Brown and Sumday Vacations and, very importantly, why it somehow took a full week to present (...or imaginatively create, whichever is applicable) that belated explanation. :shrug:
 
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JeffBrown

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Company response with more details

I brought and paid via the WEB site for a week. I was looking thru and saw something that I knew was nice, but the very next ad was a GREAT unit. I checked with the resort to be sure it matched up to the other weeks I own there.

And I got back and immediately pay for MY week! And the website takes the ad down ... it is SOLD to me.

Correct, you purchased Unit 951 Week 9 at Sea Gardens resort. Unfortunately that listing was wrong as there was a verification error on our part and we did not have the right to sell Unit 951 Week 9. We did have the right to sell Unit 951 Week 8. This error was committed by our verification department, the seller owns two weeks at this resort, Unit 951 Week 8 and Unit 462 Week 9 and the verifier made a human error in placing the wrong week number with Unit 951.

Great .. now days later and 5 minutes before they close for the weekend ... email ... so sorry, we made a mistake, your week is NOT AVAILABLE but you can have the less unit!

I am sorry that it took us days to notify you of the error, our system is full of checks and double checks but it is a very labor intensive meticulous duty that was missed until Friday. Carri from my staff who contacted you at that point offered you the other unit 462 week 9 replacement as she assumed you wanted that particular week, not the particular unit. She was not bamboozling you and it was not sold to another individual. But, we can't sell you something we don't have, you are welcome to have either of the two weeks you want or both, or none and we refund your money. We are not trying to bait and switch your purchase.


I am unhappy ... I brought it and you all had several days to uncover the find an problem ... NOW I have a problem and it is the WEEKEND ...???

So, I have posted on TUG ... and after the weekend this is psot can't get edited ...

I want the unit advertised and that was the one I paid for DAYS AGO......simply, no bait and switch.


We do try to learn from our mistakes but it doesn't mean that we don't make any. We can't sell you something that we don't have and we don't own the resort so we can't make it for you but I do not see how any action that my staff has taken since their contact with you has been unreasonable. I'm hoping that this more fully explained explanation may help to diffuse your anger and allow you to make a determination of where you would like for us to proceed. As I see it, you can purchase unit 951 week 8 or Unit 462 week 9, or you can ask me to cancel the sale and I will immediately refund your purchase. Carri has also advised me that you may wish to purchase both of those weeks and if you do that option is being handled via email correspondence with her.

I'm sorry for any miscommunication that you feel may have taken place during this transaction and I'm extremely sorry that our verification of the listed property was incorrect. Please let me know if I can assist you further.
Sincerely
Jeff Brown
Sumday Vacations
 

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Missed the action

Keep "bumping up" this subject line / thread and keep this matter right out there for all to see and for Sumday's public explanation and / or resolution. Good luck!

I just want all of you to know that I would've gotten to this sooner but I was at the ARDA convention in Orlando fighting resorts over increasing transfer fees again. As you can all see, I've responded to the best of my ability and now it's up to you to determine our fate.
 

Egret1986

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You've always been straight-up on TUG as far as I'm concerned.

I just want all of you to know that I would've gotten to this sooner but I was at the ARDA convention in Orlando fighting resorts over increasing transfer fees again. As you can all see, I've responded to the best of my ability and now it's up to you to determine our fate.

I didn't believe this time would be any different.

Thank you for fighting the good fight on those transfer fees. Crazy ridiculous gouging by some resorts/corporations.
 

theo

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To give credit where credit is due, Jeff Brown has stepped up and, albeit belatedly, admitted to some "internal process failure" within his company.
It was a listing error, caught late in the overall process. Human error happens and who among us can claim immunity from that particular vulnerability?

Sumday can't sell what they don't have, as Mr. Brown notes. He's given Linda all of the available realistic options, including immediate refund. It's her call now.
 

Tank

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I'm on my 4th closing as I type with Sumday vacations.(actually touched base on the phone right before seeing this with them) When I buy again I hope they are the ones that have what I need! Nothing but professional from this group. I know what I'm looking for and have found things listed wrong and have questioned them about it. Ex. is says 2 bedroom here, but one bedroom there, which is it ? All the info they have to have on it I know mistakes are going to happen. Matter of fact the first one I bought said annually on Ebay, bought it and when the papers came to sign it was Bi=annual called them up and the apologized and refunded my money. You will get the contract to look over before you sign but after you sign look it over again. One of mine came back with a err 1/552 part owner for that week instead of 1/52 I pointed it out, they corrected it at no charge and thanked me for pointing it out. You see all the Timeshares on Ebay , they are very busy!
I for one am a very happy customer and can only hope that the next timeshare I want has his big Orange/ Red Sumday flag on it because I know it's a safe buy.

Thank you Jeff Brown for allowing me to live the dream !!!
 

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I'm closing on my second week with them. There was an error in the first week in that it was a Summer Bay unit. They have 4 different resorts all under Summer Bay. I thought I was purchasing a Summer Bay Resort unit when it was really a Villas at Summer Bay worth about 12k points less. The worked with me on getting a 3BR week 27 at Summer Bay Resort EOY worth 126,000 points. Total cost was less than 1 use year of maintenance fees. Very happy how that transaction turned out as its only about $510 a year in MF. So sometimes mistakes work in the buyers favor in the long run.
 

comicbookman

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well, at least it turned out to be human error. I still find the time lag disturbing, but I believe Jeff's explanation.
 

Saintsfanfl

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I have bought 9 from them in the last couple years and another 7 or so that didn't pass ROFR. In my opinion the only other seller that comes close to the level of integrity combined with having some decent inventory for good prices is the DFC related entities out of Bozeman, MT.
 

staceyeileen

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With all due respect, you (and all of the rest of us) don't know all of the actual underlying facts here. Just for the record, no one has stated, suggested (or in any other way implied) the words "scam" or "fraud".

Actually the word fraud was used. See below:


If you are correct, then what they are doing is illegal. It is called fraud. They had a contract with you (and Linda), accepted payment, then backed out. Unless it was a legitimate mistake, it is fraud. If it happens often than it goes out of the realm of mistake and into the realm of negligence. I fail to see why you would bother with them again.

Glad to see Jeff responded, as I knew would be the case.
 

missyrcrews

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An update....we're almost there!

I received an email yesterday from the closing company, with the recorded deed attached. I believe all that remains is for the resort to receive their copy, record the transfer in their records, and then call RCI to add the week to our account! If this really comes through, I'll have a holiday week (most years) for $29.99. Looking like it will happen! I've been so thankful for this community of folks to talk me through it at every stage!
 

WinniWoman

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I received an email yesterday from the closing company, with the recorded deed attached. I believe all that remains is for the resort to receive their copy, record the transfer in their records, and then call RCI to add the week to our account! If this really comes through, I'll have a holiday week (most years) for $29.99. Looking like it will happen! I've been so thankful for this community of folks to talk me through it at every stage!

Hooray!!!!!:cheer:
 

missyrcrews

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And we have a transfer!!!

The resort processed the transfer yesterday....WOOHOO!!! The credit balance was on the account as promised, so we are all set. Called RCI to add the week to my account. As soon as the resort verifies, we are good. to. go! Have promised my husband that's the last week we'll buy. :)
 

WinniWoman

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The resort processed the transfer yesterday....WOOHOO!!! The credit balance was on the account as promised, so we are all set. Called RCI to add the week to my account. As soon as the resort verifies, we are good. to. go! Have promised my husband that's the last week we'll buy. :)

That's key-that the resort processed it. Your husband must be like mine when it comes to our timeshares- just kind of rolls his eyes and says "Ok, dear. whatever you want to do". LOL!:hysterical:
 

Ty1on

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That's key-that the resort processed it. Your husband must be like mine when it comes to our timeshares- just kind of rolls his eyes and says "Ok, dear. whatever you want to do". LOL!:hysterical:

We're the opposite. She is the one that resists the idea. OTOH, she's the one that refuses to stay in roach motels, then uses the rental rates of same roach motels to prove that timeshare is more expensive. :wall:
 

missyrcrews

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That's key-that the resort processed it. Your husband must be like mine when it comes to our timeshares- just kind of rolls his eyes and says "Ok, dear. whatever you want to do". LOL!:hysterical:

Yes...that's him to a tee. He is limited to 4 weeks of vacation a year...I can be gone as much as I like, as long as I'm willing to not be paid. I very often take the kids and go for the week somewhere within driving distance, and he'll join us for a long weekend. He gets quiet at home...the kids and I get a change of scenery. Everybody's happy! ;)

He hates hotels now....had to stay in one down near UMass Amherst for the New England Regional gymnastics competition in May. He hated every minute of that experience. Spoiled!
 

WinniWoman

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Yes...that's him to a tee. He is limited to 4 weeks of vacation a year...I can be gone as much as I like, as long as I'm willing to not be paid. I very often take the kids and go for the week somewhere within driving distance, and he'll join us for a long weekend. He gets quiet at home...the kids and I get a change of scenery. Everybody's happy! ;)

He hates hotels now....had to stay in one down near UMass Amherst for the New England Regional gymnastics competition in May. He hated every minute of that experience. Spoiled!

LOL! We all are- us timeshare owners! I have a wedding coming up in August- right after my two weeks of timeshare vacation- about 4 hours from home in Syracuse-and I had to book a crappy efficiency hotel for overnight. Dreading it- even for the one night! Ha! Ha!

My husband is the one with more time off- but he likes to use a chunk of it for his hunting excursions. My boss won't let me take time off without pay and we can't carry over time. In fact- he decreased and then capped the employees' PTO days- that rat! :crash:Every year I hope I am lucky enough not to have to use sick days or have any emergencies that pop up so I can use my PTO time for vacations. I am thankful all has worked out well so far.
 

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Just a follow up about my most recent purchase.

I really like Sumday. I got the estoppel that said the week was in RCI Points. Checked with them about it on 3/3 and they said the previous owner said it wasn't in points. Multiple emails to the resort and I get official confirmation around 5/1 that it really is in points.

On 5/5 I forward email from resort to Sumday and get the response that they will contact the previous owner.

On 5/20 I send and get a response that they haven't heard from the previous owner.

Multiple emails and calls to RCI looking for info and if there is a way to transfer without an MTA. Nope.

Finally on 7/25 I decide to write a letter and send it to the address on the deed along with a 95% filled out MTA. I get a call on 7/28 from an older lady freaking out because of the sum of money paid to Sumday to "take care of all of it and get rid of them." After explaining why I sent the letter, she understood what I was asking for and agreed to sign and send it back to me. (I provided a self addressed, stamped envelope)

On 8/3 I get the fully signed MTA in the mail! I've since sent it to RCI and now just waiting on them!

Bottom line, Sumday doesn't do all of their homework to verify all information. And it was pretty clear on the estoppel that this was a points unit.
 

missyrcrews

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Agree about attention to detail

Just a follow up about my most recent purchase.

I really like Sumday. I got the estoppel that said the week was in RCI Points. Checked with them about it on 3/3 and they said the previous owner said it wasn't in points. Multiple emails to the resort and I get official confirmation around 5/1 that it really is in points.

On 5/5 I forward email from resort to Sumday and get the response that they will contact the previous owner.

On 5/20 I send and get a response that they haven't heard from the previous owner.

Multiple emails and calls to RCI looking for info and if there is a way to transfer without an MTA. Nope.

Finally on 7/25 I decide to write a letter and send it to the address on the deed along with a 95% filled out MTA. I get a call on 7/28 from an older lady freaking out because of the sum of money paid to Sumday to "take care of all of it and get rid of them." After explaining why I sent the letter, she understood what I was asking for and agreed to sign and send it back to me. (I provided a self addressed, stamped envelope)

On 8/3 I get the fully signed MTA in the mail! I've since sent it to RCI and now just waiting on them!

Bottom line, Sumday doesn't do all of their homework to verify all information. And it was pretty clear on the estoppel that this was a points unit.

My purchase is done, resort has transferred the week, etc. AND THEN I hear from the State of NH that the check sent for recording from Sumday was made out to the wrong party. (Should have been the State, and they made it out to an agency.) When I questioned Sumday...I got, "We've used the same form for years." Basically...it was up to the State of New Hampshire to personally notify THEM of the form change. NOPE. So, still waiting to hear that it's all tied up with a bow. Just a little more attention to detail, and it would have been done. They've been quick to correct mistakes...but really...those mistakes shouldn't have happened in the first place. :shrug:
 

csxjohn

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Just a follow up about my most recent purchase.,,,

....

On 5/20 I send and get a response that they haven't heard from the previous owner.

......

Finally on 7/25 I decide to write a letter and send it to the address on the deed along with a 95% filled out MTA. I get a call on 7/28 from an older lady freaking out because of the sum of money paid to Sumday to "take care of all of it and get rid of them." .......



Bottom line, Sumday doesn't do all of their homework to verify all information. And it was pretty clear on the estoppel that this was a points unit.

It seems obvious to me that Sumday did all they could do. It appears the previous owner intentionally ignored all communication from Sumday because of the sum she paid and felt she was done dealing with them.

Good work on your part to follow up as thoroughly as you did.
 
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