[2015] Bad Faith Negotiations

I was contacted recently by a guy that I have rented to in the past asking whether I had something for the same event again this year. I said yes and gave him my price of $900 And he objected.. or rather, began negotiating

He wanted to know why it was so much more this year. Last year at the last minute he only paid $650. My come back was this… 1) my price is the same as last year. But we aren’t at the last minute yet and I haven’t posted my “last minute sale price” 2) and you are mistaken about what you paid last year, in fact it was $750. 3) Its early enough that Im not going to offer any last minute pricing yet, but I will discount 10% for a repeat customer. I offered a one bedroom for $900 instead of $1050 and a studio (like last year) for $800 and then I said: this is my final offer, if you can’t accept it, you are free to take your chances and wait for the last minute… and by the way I intend to try something new this year and raise my prices for anything left at the last minute

so he comes back and says ok he will take the One bedroom for $800…..

now Im getting upset. First he makes a “mistake” about what he paid last year and then in one sentence says Yes he will accept one of my offers, and at the same time under bids it

heres where Im getting upset with the whole thing, I think he knew full well what he paid last year and lied about it, expecting I wouldn’t remember or look it up. And then he continues to negotiate after Ive presented my final offer like Im not serious about this stuff. That just pisses me off

He doesn’t know Im upset, I just apologized for not being clear and restated my offer 1 bed=900 or studio =800, but if he doesn’t accept one or the other Im done, he can sleep somewhere else.


So Im not asking for suggestions here. Right or Wrong, I know what Im going to do, This is just a rant… thanks for listening

Some people just want to haggle to death and lie about it the process. Go watch a comedy and forget about this idiot.

ronparise said:

I was contacted recently by a guy that I have rented to in the past asking whether I had something for the same event again this year. I said yes and gave him my price of $900 And he objected.. or rather, began negotiating

He wanted to know why it was so much more this year. Last year at the last minute he only paid $650. My come back was this… 1) my price is the same as last year. But we aren’t at the last minute yet and I haven’t posted my “last minute sale price” 2) and you are mistaken about what you paid last year, in fact it was $750. 3) Its early enough that Im not going to offer any last minute pricing yet, but I will discount 10% for a repeat customer. I offered a one bedroom for $900 instead of $1050 and a studio (like last year) for $800 and then I said: this is my final offer, if you can’t accept it, you are free to take your chances and wait for the last minute… and by the way I intend to try something new this year and raise my prices for anything left at the last minute

so he comes back and says ok he will take the One bedroom for $800…..

now Im getting upset. First he makes a “mistake” about what he paid last year and then in one sentence says Yes he will accept one of my offers, and at the same time under bids it

heres where Im getting upset with the whole thing, I think he knew full well what he paid last year and lied about it, expecting I wouldn’t remember or look it up. And then he continues to negotiate after Ive presented my final offer like Im not serious about this stuff. That just pisses me off

He doesn’t know Im upset, I just apologized for not being clear and restated my offer 1 bed=900 or studio =800, but if he doesn’t accept one or the other Im done, he can sleep somewhere else.


So Im not asking for suggestions here. Right or Wrong, I know what Im going to do, This is just a rant… thanks for listening

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Aww cmon, you try to get the highest price, he tries to get the lowest. I would never have thought you would react emotionally to a lowball offer.

ronparise said:

<snip>.... if he doesn’t accept one or the other Im done, he can sleep somewhere else.

So Im not asking for suggestions here. Right or Wrong, I know what Im going to do, This is just a rant… thanks for listening

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Who's listening?

Why post your personal rental business moans and groans here at all if you're not seeking input?

I am a strike 2 person. If they mess up twice, I quit responding. I just decide that I am unable to communicate with the person and move along.

Ron ...
I get that CRAP all the time, too.

Sometimes from people I never have rented to... "their" friend rented from me. And I get it from a prior years renters ... who wants to SERIOUSLY discount the prior year's last minute deal by $150-200 or more dollars (like below the current year's cost). And with the funny numbers they think they paid. I get it from people responding to an ad.

And I get the SOB stories - mostly on the phone. Sick mother; sick father; sick kid; poor relative; old & poor mother. And the ONCE in a lifetime, dream trip. Mainly from first time off the first time contacts,

I have gotten it from TUG replies ... some from people who "claim" this is their son, son-in-law, mother or father... back from deployment or on their last trip of their life.

I know of a TUG regular poster who stopped renting out timeshare weeks BECAUSE they were not covering their MFs costs and the number of non-rented unit.

I know of TUG posters who have STOPPED using the LMR thread ... because it was TOO public and too many times ... people (guests mostly) felt IF you had an ad where you were willing to take $700 for a week .... that SHOULD be the price you take for the HIGHEST and BEST week in your inventory ... 5 months before checkin.

And I don't post many ads on TUG Marketplace either ... the LMR thread has had multiple replies saying ... "email before you put it on the LMR as I am willing to give you $600-700 for that week".

So, yes ... this is an issue on TUG.

And NO, I only have a basic studio with KING and partial kitchen with NO balcony and no sofa ... for under $700 SOMEWHERES...as I rather deposit a 2/2 HIGH season unit to RCI for the BIG TPU value and take a trip to Hawaii.

All of this has scared me away from ever wanting to rent my unit out.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

vacationhopeful said:

Ron ...
I get that CRAP all the time, too.

Sometimes from people I never have rented to... "their" friend rented from me. And I get it from a prior years renters ... who wants to SERIOUSLY discount the prior year's last minute deal by $150-200 or more dollars (like below the current year's cost). And with the funny numbers they think they paid. I get it from people responding to an ad.

And I get the SOB stories - mostly on the phone. Sick mother; sick father; sick kid; poor relative; old & poor mother. And the ONCE in a lifetime, dream trip. Mainly from first time off the first time contacts,

I have gotten it from TUG replies ... some from people who "claim" this is their son, son-in-law, mother or father... back from deployment or on their last trip of their life.

I know of a TUG regular poster who stopped renting out timeshare weeks BECAUSE they were not covering their MFs costs and the number of non-rented unit.

I know of TUG posters who have STOPPED using the LMR thread ... because it was TOO public and too many times ... people (guests mostly) felt IF you had an ad where you were willing to take $700 for a week .... that SHOULD be the price you take for the HIGHEST and BEST week in your inventory ... 5 months before checkin.

And I don't post many ads on TUG Marketplace either ... the LMR thread has had multiple replies saying ... "email before you put it on the LMR as I am willing to give you $600-700 for that week".

So, yes ... this is an issue on TUG.

And NO, I only have a basic studio with KING and partial kitchen with NO balcony and no sofa ... for under $700 SOMEWHERES...as I rather deposit a 2/2 HIGH season unit to RCI for the BIG TPU value and take a trip to Hawaii.

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This and Ron's Original post are why I am afraid to rent. Way too much hassle for the casual owner like myself.

vacationhopeful said:

... I know of TUG posters who have STOPPED using the LMR thread ... because it was TOO public and too many times ... people (guests mostly) felt IF you had an ad where you were willing to take $700 for a week .... that SHOULD be the price you take for the HIGHEST and BEST week in your inventory ... 5 months before checkin. ...

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I know of folks who have posted LMR Wanted ads but have gotten private replies from TUGgers that clearly don't conform with the stated rule, "Maximum rental rate for replies in this section is $700/week." It's not just the folks looking for rentals who play games.

alexadeparis said:

This and Ron's Original post are why I am afraid to rent. Way too much hassle for the casual owner like myself.

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I used to think that way, too, being an individual owner-renter.
Having done it before, I hated the haggling, the no replies, reneging, the bad luck stories, etc. I decided it wasn't worth it and thought that I'd just deposit the unit instead of all the associated headaches with renting.

Then, I found a reputable and experienced rental agent who takes care of all these problems and charges a very fair commission percentage. The agent even rented it at a higher price than I had planned to.

Re: the OP. I'm fine with a TUG friend venting and sharing. Also, I found it helpful knowing that it doesn't only happen to the rookie individual owner-renter. No harm, no foul.

-

Ron - Sometimes you just have to laugh!

I recently got this offer from someone, for a timeshare rental listed at $2,000:

"I have a lot of experience renting timeshares, and I can rent any timeshare I want for $500-$1,000. I will take your timeshare for $1,000 right now."

My response:

"Thank you so much for your inquiry. I'm sorry, but the price is firm, but if you can find it somewhere for $1,000, you should definitely take it - that's a great price!"

SueDonJ said:

I know of folks who have posted LMR Wanted ads but have gotten private replies from TUGgers that clearly don't conform with the stated rule, "Maximum rental rate for replies in this section is $700/week." It's not just the folks looking for rentals who play games.

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Ahhh... but are those the people who want a 2BR 4th of July week on Hilton Head (prefer Marriott), or a February week in Maui (Westin, Marriott, or Hyatt w/ocean view) for $700 or less? Some of those want ads seem crazy unrealistic to me, but maybe the posters get what they want? There was a thread about this (can't find it, though), that said you can't post an ad for over $700/week, but a landlord could reply to a want ad by private message, and try to negotiate a price. I haven't done that, but it sounds reasonable to me. If you don't like an offer, simply decline/ignore it and move on.

To Ron's current customer experience, I feel your frustration. Some people think they are way too clever, and really push the limit when you work hard to treat everyone with respect.

Not a wyndham rental but a Hilton rental for thanksgiving, I had this issue with this guy that just would not give up.

This was a rental posting, 6 months prior to thanksgiving, and they were wanting LMR pricing.

His position....
I will do you a favor and take it off your hands.
His offer was 35% less than the cost of my MF

My position...
NO, NO and hell no.
Why would I pay money for you to go on vacation, when I can cancel with NO penalty?

He persisted. Calling and emailing, but never once increasing his price. His claim that is what he paid from someone else, last minute, in the past. He did that every year, and I should just yield. My advice to him, then rent from someone you already rented from before.

Some people.

I love it when you tell them no via email, and then they call anyway.

SueDonJ said:

I know of folks who have posted LMR Wanted ads but have gotten private replies from TUGgers that clearly don't conform with the stated rule, "Maximum rental rate for replies in this section is $700/week." It's not just the folks looking for rentals who play games.

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Yes, MORE than what the LMR Wanted thread, but if a person who wants a deal is offended via PM... they can just reply, "looking to pay only $700".

What I get on the "LMR Offered" thread is the public posting of "I will take it. PM sent.". Or the famous, "been there; only worth $450 for that size unit and week" and the 2nd infamous line, "can you get me a 2/2 for $500?" in responding to a ST unit LMR rental thread offering asking $700.

PamMo said:

Ahhh... but are those the people who want a 2BR 4th of July week on Hilton Head (prefer Marriott), or a February week in Maui (Westin, Marriott, or Hyatt w/ocean view) for $700 or less? Some of those want ads seem crazy unrealistic to me, but maybe the posters get what they want? There was a thread about this (can't find it, though), that said you can't post an ad for over $700/week, but you can reply by private message and try to negotiate a fair price. I haven't done that, but it sounds reasonable to me. If you don't like an offer, simply decline/ignore it and move on.

To Ron's current customer experience, I feel your frustration. Some people think they are way too clever, and really push the limit when you work hard to treat everyone with respect.

Click to expand...

No, with a rental I did the LMR $100/night restriction was a fair price for the interval requested and returned a profit for me (considering my Marriott Points/Maintenance Fee cost as well as the going rate for Marriott Points - other ownerships could result in higher/lower ratios.) The OP had been quoted by TUGgers hundreds per night which still would have been less than the cash rack rate but were definitely not necessary to make it a worthwhile transaction for most Marriott Points users.

I agree with you that not all of the LMR Wanted ads are realistic but I'm not sure what I think about the wheeling/dealing that goes on behind the scenes when the rules are made clear. TUG has a marketplace separate from the LMR forums for that, and it doesn't look good for TUG when the regulars take advantage of LMR posters. Mine was referred to TUG by someone at a resort and she was almost completely turned off by the way TUGgers responded to her LMR Wanted ad.

I must admit, I don't get many of these, Thank God. When I do, I'm
Extremely brief and say No Thank You. I have only had two respond to that still
Trying and I just tell them, I have never had a week not rent so I don't discount.
I do give a 10% discount to repeat customers and if they rent more than one
Week. I had one person rent 7 weeks this year and I did give her the 10%
Discount.

The last few years people have been booking very early. For 2015, I ran out of
Weeks in October of 2014 and for 2016 I was all booked by June 2015. It's good
But I have had less repeats because they usually only book about 6 months out.

I know I'm resurrecting an older thread. But this is still going on and still annoying me.

I have a September Hawaii rental, a full 7+ months from now. I get an email, they want the unit, but at 33% off what I am asking. This is not a repeat renter. Clearly not a LMR either. But their line, "I can't afford that much". My thoughts are "you can't afford to go to Hawaii on vacation then". Why is it that people want me to subsidize their vacations.

Bad Faith Negotiations, No means No. Do not call again. No.
I totally agreed with your rant.

Ron,

I totally get it, I had the same thing happen with a rental I was doing for my mom's house. I gave the price, they guy came back 3 times haggling with me and I stated my final price and no longer responded to his posts. I ended up renting it two weeks later for the price we wanted... I totally get the rant...

ronparise said:

I was contacted recently by a guy that I have rented to in the past asking whether I had something for the same event again this year. I said yes and gave him my price of $900 And he objected.. or rather, began negotiating

He wanted to know why it was so much more this year. Last year at the last minute he only paid $650. My come back was this… 1) my price is the same as last year. But we aren’t at the last minute yet and I haven’t posted my “last minute sale price” 2) and you are mistaken about what you paid last year, in fact it was $750. 3) Its early enough that Im not going to offer any last minute pricing yet, but I will discount 10% for a repeat customer. I offered a one bedroom for $900 instead of $1050 and a studio (like last year) for $800 and then I said: this is my final offer, if you can’t accept it, you are free to take your chances and wait for the last minute… and by the way I intend to try something new this year and raise my prices for anything left at the last minute

so he comes back and says ok he will take the One bedroom for $800…..

now Im getting upset. First he makes a “mistake” about what he paid last year and then in one sentence says Yes he will accept one of my offers, and at the same time under bids it

heres where Im getting upset with the whole thing, I think he knew full well what he paid last year and lied about it, expecting I wouldn’t remember or look it up. And then he continues to negotiate after Ive presented my final offer like Im not serious about this stuff. That just pisses me off

He doesn’t know Im upset, I just apologized for not being clear and restated my offer 1 bed=900 or studio =800, but if he doesn’t accept one or the other Im done, he can sleep somewhere else.


So Im not asking for suggestions here. Right or Wrong, I know what Im going to do, This is just a rant… thanks for listening

Click to expand...

DeniseM said:

Ron - Sometimes you just have to laugh!

I recently got this offer from someone, for a timeshare rental listed at $2,000:

"I have a lot of experience renting timeshares, and I can rent any timeshare I want for $500-$1,000. I will take your timeshare for $1,000 right now."

My response:

"Thank you so much for your inquiry. I'm sorry, but the price is firm, but if you can find it somewhere for $1,000, you should definitely take it - that's a great price!"

Click to expand...

I realize the original thread started years ago, but these experiences will never lose relevance, and I liked Denise's response here. Friendly humor.

I am no mega renter, nor do I have any real interest in renting as a business. We do sometimes rent our units, but they are our personal units that we purchased specifically to assure a specific floor, or specific view type, or access to a specific resort during a specific time period where we like to go (usually).

When we have listed rentals I frequently get responses with low offers. I don't really take it personal. I understand people are looking for the best deal and I don't really begrudge them that. I say that even though I know some of the sob stories given to me have almost certainly been lies. What I have experienced is that when you keep it friendly and don't burn any bridges sometimes those lowball offers eventually will pay the fee you are asking. Especially if you have a decent unit, decent season (weather), decent resort...and your asking price is fair.

Last year I had one rental and got multiple lowball offers in Jan/Feb/Mar. I patiently explained why I was not willing to accept those lower offers. My listed asking price was already a great deal. Ironically, by the time we got 30 days out from check-in four of those lowball offers came back to me in a period of 5 days all wanting the unit at my original asking price. The first one that came back got the unit and the other three were kind of stuck looking for something for that week. They were all upset and kicking themselves over missing out. One even offered me more if I would rent the unit to them instead of the person I committed to because there was nothing else available (of course I would not do that). I have had a couple of similar experiences for other weeks / units.

My (limited) experience as a renter is why when I rent from other owners, sure I would like the best price obviously, but when I know I am going to travel somewhere and I find what I am looking for (right time, right resort, right unit type), and the price seems fair, I just reach out to the owner and pay them their price and don't try to haggle with them. Having exactly what we need is far more important to me than saving a couple hundred dollars.

But that's just us. I realize there is a strategy out there where "hagglers" will find a vacation somewhere when they find an owner willing to accept their lowball offer. Those people don't really care if they go to a specific resort if they can find something in a general area or maybe they have a couple of general areas they would go when they find a "deal" (i.e. coastal NC or coastal SC).

A discounted offer might be 2-5% off the asking price...esp if you have NOT rented from me before or recently.

My reply for truly lowball offers .... "Sorry, I only have 7 night rentals".

I have done 3 rentals from TUG owners in the last year, and I haven't haggled with the owner on a price yet! Maybe I should start trying to save some money! but honestly all 3 have been very reasonable prices to begin with so I have never felt the need to try and haggle.

I enjoy reading these also, thanks Ron.
I'm always amazed to read experiences of others, and what some will do. I've had people that do this for a living have customers looking for a prime week last minute I might have available yet only offer a price below my actual cost not budging saying he gets them all day long at this price. (why you contacting me) I look at it as though the client should be happy you could find something for them late in the game and yes it costs more be glad they didn't find Redweek or Tug.

As far as the last minute rental section goes, I have looked at, and responded too, the last minute want adds as way to possibly help somebody stay in something nice vs a hotel for size and comfort.
By PM mainly, rarely can I respond on the feed due to my cost over the $100 limit to start with unless its an off time to travel.
During high demand time if I see availability, I try to help out, (I though I was) the response most the time was It's over my budget, a few get testy "this is the $100 a night section, why would you contact me"

I will use this last minute rental wanted section when I get to travel more , and will welcome offers to stay at nice timeshares vs hotels any-day! Hope that the limit does not stop one from trying to help me out at the time I'm in need.

Dave

Another thread has been opened on the question of whether owners must limit their price to $100 when responding to a LMR Wanted ad. Brian has answered here and said that owners can Private Message rental offers at prices above $100/night.
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/clarification-on-last-minute-rentals-wanted.250967/

I don't know how to quote another thread, but Brian's answer was: "there is no limit on offers sent privately...we cant monitor this activity anyway."