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DC Points, reserve with points & then rent

Michigan Czar

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I would like some clarification of the DC point rules. I own MVCI weeks at MOC, I do not belong to the DC program. I am interested in adding two units for one evening at the end of a week I have reserved in 2012 at MOC.

I contacted a DC point owner that was looking to rent out points and I asked them if they would check availability for the night I was looking for in 2012. If it was available I asked them reserve it with their points and then I would rent that unit for that night from them, they told me they thought this wasn't ethical.

So I ask my fellow Tuggers, is this a violation of the DC program? I didn't see this as any different than if I were to reserve one of my weeks at MOC and then turn around and rent it out on Redweek, TUG, etc.
 

dioxide45

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DC reservations can't be used for commercial purposes. That also applies to renting points. However, MVCI has provided the ability to transfer points, so they know people are going to be renting points.

There really isn't anything unethical about it. At least more more unethical than renting and transferring actual points.
 

TheTimeTraveler

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I would like some clarification of the DC point rules. I own MVCI weeks at MOC, I do not belong to the DC program. I am interested in adding two units for one evening at the end of a week I have reserved in 2012 at MOC.

I contacted a DC point owner that was looking to rent out points and I asked them if they would check availability for the night I was looking for in 2012. If it was available I asked them reserve it with their points and then I would rent that unit for that night from them, they told me they thought this wasn't ethical.

So I ask my fellow Tuggers, is this a violation of the DC program? I didn't see this as any different than if I were to reserve one of my weeks at MOC and then turn around and rent it out on Redweek, TUG, etc.




Seems to me that you would be better off joining the DC points program, then have the rented points transferred directly into your name. Then you could do whatever you wished with those points. Additionally, you would pick up those free 800 PlusPoints for one time use....




.
 

Michigan Czar

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Seems to me that you would be better off joining the DC points program, then have the rented points transferred directly into your name. Then you could do whatever you wished with those points. Additionally, you would pick up those free 800 PlusPoints for one time use....
.

I have bought my units resale and I use my weeks 95% of the time. I would have no interest in paying $1995 to join DC since I never trade my weeks.

This is a one off when I wanted to add an extra day but there is no availability to rent on Marriott.com yet so I thought I would try this route. Worst case we will move locations for the last day but I am sure I will find someone to rent the day to me.
 

SueDonJ

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The governing docs for some (most? all?) Marriott Weeks also contain the "commercial activity" rental limitation but folks have been renting their Weeks forever without any apparent blockades. Maybe Marriott's gone after some who own and rent out a whole bunch of Weeks but I don't remember seeing any posts on TUG from folks who were penalized for it. (The closest is what TUGger haleakala has posted but I think that was an issue of him renting out a large number of MOD-discounted rooms that he booked through marriott.com.)

It's true that DC Points cannot be transferred to non-DC Members. But even though the governing docs for Trust and Enrolled Points do contain a similar "commercial activity" provision, they don't contain anything beyond that provision that would prevent Trust/Enrolled Members from making reservations with their DC Points and then renting those reservations to non-Trust/Enrolled Members. Until we have anecdotal evidence of that being prohibited, I'd guess that Members and renters are as safe with renting DC Point reservations as they are with renting Weeks reservations.

I think you're correct, Michigan Czar, that if you keep looking you will find a Member who will rent to you the reservations that you want. TUGger GregT has developed a website for DC Points/reservations rentals. Don't know if that's one place you're looking but if not, you might want to think about it.
 
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MOXJO7282

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I would like some clarification of the DC point rules. I own MVCI weeks at MOC, I do not belong to the DC program. I am interested in adding two units for one evening at the end of a week I have reserved in 2012 at MOC.

I contacted a DC point owner that was looking to rent out points and I asked them if they would check availability for the night I was looking for in 2012. If it was available I asked them reserve it with their points and then I would rent that unit for that night from them, they told me they thought this wasn't ethical.

So I ask my fellow Tuggers, is this a violation of the DC program? I didn't see this as any different than if I were to reserve one of my weeks at MOC and then turn around and rent it out on Redweek, TUG, etc.

I thought that was one of the available legal options for points owners? Boy its a good thing I didn 't join then because I always thought you could rent points.

Or is that the difference? You can rent points to someone who has a DC points account, but can't secure week with points and rent that week to anyone? That to me is a big limitation in my book.
 

MOXJO7282

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The governing docs for some (most? all?) Marriott Weeks also contain the "commercial activity" rental limitation but folks have been renting their Weeks forever without any apparent blockades.

I also don't think Marriott can legally classify someone as commercial who is renting 2 or 3 or even 15 weeks unless they can prove a commercial element which would be difficult to do.
 

SueDonJ

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I thought that was one of the available legal options for points owners? Boy its a good thing I didn 't join then because I always thought you could rent points.

Or is that the difference? You can rent points to someone who has a DC points account, but can't secure week with points and rent that week to anyone? That to me is a big limitation in my book.

I could be wrong but I thought folks had starting transferring/renting DC Points and renting DC reservations almost as soon as the program was introduced?

I think the biggest obstacle is that DC Points can't be transferred to non-DC Members - which makes sense when you think about it because non-DC Members don't have a DC account to which Points can be deposited. But other than that I don't see any more of an obstacle to anyone renting DC Point reservations, than the seldom-if-ever-invoked "commercial activity" provision which has always been in the contracts for (some? all?) Weeks.
 

m61376

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I had specifically asked cust. advocacy about this, and their response was that DC reservations could be rented the same as an owned legacy week, as long as it wasn't excessive and fell into their somewhat nebulous commercial category. We actually got into that discussion when the new program was touted as being advantageous because you wouldn't have owners trying to reserve the best weeks if they weren't intending to use them (which may be true wrt exchanges, but clearly is not true wrt rentals).
 

dioxide45

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Renting points is ideal. Renting reservations based on point reservations is cumbersome. You have to have the owner make the reservation and put it in to your name. With a points rental, once the transfer is done the owner is out of it. Clean and hands wiped.

Though I think an owner can make more money per point making a prime reservation and then renting that out as opposed to just renting the points and transferring them.
 

rudy

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u can rent what you own ....

My take on it is you can rent what you legally own.

If you bought weeks Marriott allows you to rent the week.

If you own points then Marriott allows you to transfer (i.e. rent) them.

If you trade your week to II you cannot rent the week you exchanged for because you do not own it.

***************
Now the dilemma: if you own weeks that you enrolled and elected points and then you exchange the points for a villa... can you then rent that villa?

Option 1: NO .... you cannot rent it because it is the same as trying to rent a week you exchanged

Option 2: YES .. if you can rent points then you should be able to rent the units you obtain with points
************************


Sure would like to have a ruling on this by those in the KNOW ......:shrug:
 

dioxide45

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My take on it is you can rent what you legally own.

If you bought weeks Marriott allows you to rent the week.

If you own points then Marriott allows you to transfer (i.e. rent) them.

If you trade your week to II you cannot rent the week you exchanged for because you do not own it.

***************
Now the dilemma: if you own weeks that you enrolled and elected points and then you exchange the points for a villa... can you then rent that villa?

Option 1: NO .... you cannot rent it because it is the same as trying to rent a week you exchanged

Option 2: YES .. if you can rent points then you should be able to rent the units you obtain with points
************************


Sure would like to have a ruling on this by those in the KNOW ......:shrug:

Option 3: YES. Marriott has a policy that says NO, but they don't bother to enforce it or they don't deem it commercial activity.
 

rudy

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Dioxide... what policy

Dioxide:

I hate to ask because I probably should know... but what policy by Narriott tells us the answer is NO?
 

dioxide45

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Dioxide:

I hate to ask because I probably should know... but what policy by Narriott tells us the answer is NO?

There is a commercial use clause written in to the exchange procedures document.
 

SueDonJ

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Dioxide:

I hate to ask because I probably should know... but what policy by Narriott tells us the answer is NO?

There is a commercial use clause written in to the exchange procedures document.

I'm confused by this answer, dioxide. There's a "commercial activity" provision written into (most/some/all of?) the governing docs for Weeks, always has been, but TUGgers have pretty much always been in agreement that it didn't mean that Marriott would use it to prohibit all rentals of Weeks. So if a similar provision now exists in the DC governing docs, why should it be taken to mean that Marriott wants to prohibit all rentals of DC Points reservations?

Over the years watching DVC (Disney) activity, I've seen Disney make changes that allowed them to enforce their "commercial activity" provision through other means - by putting an actual figure to the number of reservations one owner could put in another person's name, and by limiting the number of transfers into and out of owners' accounts. IMO, as the DC usage patterns develop, Marriott will probably take similar measures (and possibly others related to the lottery provisions in the docs) to curtail rentals which cut into their sales/rentals activity. But I don't think the provisions in either the Weeks or DC documents, as they read today, are enough to give Marriott the right to completely prohibit rentals of Weeks or DC Points, or reservations made with either.
 

dioxide45

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I'm confused by this answer, dioxide. There's a "commercial activity" provision written into (most/some/all of?) the governing docs for Weeks, always has been, but TUGgers have pretty much always been in agreement that it didn't mean that Marriott would use it to prohibit all rentals of Weeks. So if a similar provision now exists in the DC governing docs, why should it be taken to mean that Marriott wants to prohibit all rentals of DC Points reservations?

I agree, and nothing is different now than in the past. I am not suggesting that Marriott will enforce what they have in the governing documents. They haven't in the past and don't see why they would start now.
 
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