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Time devoted to renting

johnluyando

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There seems to be many of us looking to get into the timeshare rental business. I have been lurking on this site for the past two years or so hoping to eventually become a small renter. I would like to do this to offset my own travel costs and possibly grow to something bigger in the future. My plan is to secure enough contracts to be able to do about 5-10 rentals in year one.

I currently have a few rental properties and luckily have been blessed with great tenants. With that said, leaks happen, the refrigerator breaks, A/C's blow warm air, etc.

My questions is, what type of unexpected issues occur while renting timeshares and how much of your time is devoted to addressing these issues?

I appreciate the guidance.
 

DeniseM

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I vary rarely have unexpected things that come up. To keep it that way, I make sure the renter understands exactly what they are renting, and what the rental terms are.

Despite this, some renters just don't read what they agree to, so occasionally:

-The renter thinks he rented an ocean front unit, and calls me indignantly because he got garden view (which is what he rented.)

-The renter wants to cancel even though I have a no cancellation policy which they agreed to.

-Twice I've had renters who got to the airport only to discover that their passport was expired.

-A few times I've had renters who had a serious family emergency, and could not go.

-Right now I have a couple who called off their wedding, and no longer want to go on a honeymoon together. ;)

-I had someone who cancelled because of the Dengue fever on the Big Island.

I have never had a problem caused by a resort, but that can happen at low-end resorts.

Because I have a no cancellation policy, I strongly recommend travel insurance, many times during the process.
 
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johnluyando

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Thanks, Denise. So the big risk is cancellation. Given your no cancellation policy, do you try to re-rent the week if time allows or just let the buyer deal with the situation?
 

DeniseM

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Thanks, Denise. So the big risk is cancellation. Given your no cancellation policy, do you try to re-rent the week if time allows or just let the buyer deal with the situation?

It really depends on the situation and the person's attitude. Sometimes I try to re-rent the week, and sometimes I tell them to go pound sand.

I had one lady who begged me to let her make payments, because her family wanted to go to Harborside so bad. And against my better judgement, I did.

Then her darling daughter got a chance to go somewhere with friends that week instead, and she demand a full refund, and was really irate with me when I said no.

It does irritate me when people don't buy travel insurance, and then expect me to bail them out. But really, it's not that often.

Usually, I try to get them to move their reservation to another date or resort, as my first choice, but that is not always possible.

All that being said, so far, I have never had anyone dispute their payment on their credit card. :knock on wood: But I know it can and may happen.
 
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ronparise

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Like Denise I have had few problems with timeshare rentals and like you I had lots of problems when I rented houses

The difference is I think that we don't have to manage our timeshares. The plumbing and ac and heat etc are all maintained by a staff of professionals. And for the most part surprises are avoided by excellent preventive maintenance programs. Appliances are replaced before before they break


As Denise said the problems generally stem from unreasonable expectations. Which is why I like to rent what Denise calls "low end resorts" basically I like to under promise and over deliver or put another way set my customers expectations as low as possible.
 
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I would like to do this to offset my own travel costs and possibly grow to something bigger in the future. My plan is to secure enough contracts to be able to do about 5-10 rentals in year one.

Buy REITs, dividend paying stocks, or a rental property near your home for income.

I am not sure timeshare make sense for 99% of people trying to make a business of this. You are competing against large companies and other members that rent and you are reliant on Internet website advertising. In addition, the rules and economy can change and it out of your control.
 

Jason245

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Like Denise I have had few problems with timeshare rentals and like you I had lots of problems when I rented houses

The difference is I think that we don't have to manage our timeshares. The plumbing and ac and heat etc are all maintained by a staff of professionals. And for the most part surprises are avoided by excellent preventive maintenance programs. Appliances are replaced before before they break


As Denise said the problems generally stem from unreasonable expectations. Which is why I like to rent what Denise calls "low end resorts" basically I like to under promise and over deliver or put another way set my customers expectations as low as possible.
So you are now the slum lord of the timeshare world ron?

Be more honest. .you are the king of the biz.. with tens (if not hundreds) of millions of whyndam points.. Ron is probably the guy who can in one foul swoop give his blessing to a hoa board nominee and that person will get the spot.



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ronparise

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So you are now the slum lord of the timeshare world ron?

Be more honest. .you are the king of the biz.. with tens (if not hundreds) of millions of whyndam points.. Ron is probably the guy who can in one foul swoop give his blessing to a hoa board nominee and that person will get the spot.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

10s of millions not 100s

and contrary to Denise's implication when she references "low-end resorts" Wyndham resorts are not slum like

and regarding the HOA.s, I dont have enough at any one resort to move the needle. Wyndham is in full control. I ran for the board at Avenue Plaza and was crushed.

and its "fell" swoop, not foul... I play by the rules

And regarding the ops concern with problems. Ive been around real estate and tenants for a long time. This timeshare thing is as close to problem free as you can get. Sure, like a previous poster said, REITs are completely trouble free (I recommend the Washington Real Estate Investment Trust. They specialize in rental properties in and around Washington DC which is as recession proof as anything and they further hedge their bets by investing in residential, commercial and warehousing. The history is that when one is down or showing lousy returns the others are up

But even a high paying "hands off" investment like a REIT cant throw off the returns that I have seen with timeshares. I have numerous examples where Ive paid $0 for a timeshare and rented it consistently for more than double mf.. Now we are talking a return on my time, not a return of investment because there is no investment. and regarding time, I took 2 emails last night from folks that wanted to extend their stay. I was able to make the reservations this am, send the confirms to my guests, call the front desk at the resorts and write this post all in less than an hour and by tonight my bank account should be $300 richer. Do something like that everyday for a $100000 income

And back to the ops concerns about problems, . A few problems are all in a days work and handling them why you get paid the big bucks.
 

DeniseM

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and contrary to Denise's implication when she references "low-end resorts" Wyndham resorts are not slum like

In case you missed it: 8 of the 12 timeshares I own for my own personal use are Wyndham...

In reality, Wyndham has a wide range of properties. Some are pretty crappy, and some are really nice.

My statement had nothing to do with Wyndham, and nothing to do with you.
 

Jason245

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In case you missed it: 8 of the 12 timeshares I own for my own personal use are Wyndham...

In reality, Wyndham has a wide range of properties. Some are pretty crappy, and some are really nice.

My statement had nothing to do with Wyndham, and nothing to do with you.
I have stayed at 3 Wyndham resorts. . Their quality is not consistent (Daytona and orlando ). . I think everyone can agree with that. I have stayed at 4 hgvc resorts(orlando, marco and miami) and so far the quality at all have been somewhere in the range of very good to exceptional. I have only visited dvc okw. . But if it is representative of dvc, I would say that dvc also is a high quality product.



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DeniseM

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I have stayed at 3 Wyndham resorts. . Their quality is not consistent (Daytona and orlando ). . I think everyone can agree with that. I have stayed at 4 hgvc resorts(orlando, marco and miami) and so far the quality at all have been somewhere in the range of very good to exceptional. I have only visited dvc okw. . But if it is representative of dvc, I would say that dvc also is a high quality product.

Some of the older DVC properties are getting run down, and are not as nice as Bonnet Creek.
 

ronparise

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In case you missed it: 8 of the 12 timeshares I own for my own personal use are Wyndham...

In reality, Wyndham has a wide range of properties. Some are pretty crappy, and some are really nice.

My statement had nothing to do with Wyndham, and nothing to do with you.

It doesnt matter .. "crappy" or "low-end" you often make the distinction between these and the high end or hotel brands. and while of course there is a difference in perceived value. we arent talking about perception in these rental threads. My experience is that in spite of your characterizations the less expensive timeshares offer acceptable vacation accommodation and for rentals, provide a better, more consistent, trouble free return...

My experience; offered without recommendations. and without criticism of what anyone else, least of all you, might have found success doing
 

DeniseM

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The original questions was about what problems might crop up with rentals:
My questions is, what type of unexpected issues occur while renting timeshares and how much of your time is devoted to addressing these issues?
I wrote:
I have never had a problem caused by a resort, but that can happen at low-end resorts.

I stand by this statement: At a low end resort, your rental guest is more likely to have problems with the facility, or with staff.

This has nothing to do with Wyndham.
 
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Jason245

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Some of the older DVC properties are getting run down, and are not as nice as Bonnet Creek.

last time I was at OKW, it was very nice (at least when I visited).

I agree that Bonnet was very nice when I was there and put that on the higher quality offering, that being said, the other Orlando offering was not on par with Bonnet (IMHO).

Daytona felt somewhere in between the other Orlando Option and Bonnet.... I have not stayed at a option that felt like a motel 6, but the range is probably closer to average/above average to excellent, but that is just me.
 

ronparise

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The original questions was about what problems might crop up with rentals:

I wrote:


I stand by this statement: At a low end resort, your rental guest is more likely to have problems with the facility, or with staff.

This has nothing to do with Wyndham.

I agree completely, my point is that you can manage your way to fewer complaints and problems by managing your clients expectations and proper pricing. If my guy feels that as bad as the place is, its better than he expected...hes ok, especially if he can also say, as bad as the place is, I got a good deal.
 

ronandjoan

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I have stayed at 3 Wyndham resorts. . Their quality is not consistent (Daytona and orlando ). . I think everyone can agree with that. I have stayed at 4 hgvc resorts(orlando, marco and miami) and so far the quality at all have been somewhere in the range of very good to exceptional.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


We have stayed at over 33 of the Wyndham resorts and have been happy with all - including Ocean Walk and Orlando places. Our least favorite was the Glade - but just because it was so spread out and not easy access to a pool.

We owned HCVG at first, stayed at 2 of them, and would not even go back, So we sold as soon as we could.

Just to show, everybody has their own opinions,,,,
 

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Wyndhams are very good quality. I have stayed at 14 of them and there are differences but that is to be expected when there are so many resorts built at different times across the country. The old fairfield resorts are not going to match up to the new ones.

As long as Wyndham has a resort where you want to go it is hard system to beat. Resort wise. I will let others make their own judgements on everything else.
 

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Back to the owner's original question - how much time does it take?

It's kind of like asking how big is a back yard.

The answer is definitely going to be... it depends. If you specialize in a single location or two, that's easier/less time-consuming than dealing with multiple locations. If you market on primarily one platform, whether redweek, craigslist, or vrbo, it is easier than if you are listing on several. The platform itself may drive workload too - some avenues require more back and forth, with more potential renters, than others that have more well-qualified leads. Finally, pricing and margin play a role too - if you are looking for higher prices and margins, you'll have to work a little harder because you may have to reach folks through different marketing channels.

There are people who have been successful doing this. But don't be confused that this is "easy" because some successful folks may have made it appear so. For every person who has been successful, I would wager there are several others who have not been as successful. I am currently helping someone because they had trouble renting theirs out - very desirable units - and they had relatively few to handle.

I think a realistic objective, rather than trying to turn this into a for-profit business, is to offset the cost of your own vacations by renting out the time you aren't using so you own vacations are free. If you can make a little on top, consider it a bonus.

Oh, and by the way - I had a most unusual situation recently. I had a guest staying in a 4BR Presidential at Mountain Vista. The sales staff brought someone into the unit on a tour, mistakenly thinking the unit wasn't in use. My guest apparently berated the resort staff for 30 minutes. So the resort calls me to alert me to the situation. Just one of the bizarre things that can happen. What happens more often is a call at 12:30 at night with someone trying to check in and the front desk can't find the name on the reservation.

Overall I would say the problem rate on my rental reservations is no more than 2-3%, and even those are relatively minor issues.
 

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Wyndhams are very good quality. I have stayed at 14 of them and there are differences but that is to be expected when there are so many resorts built at different times across the country. The old fairfield resorts are not going to match up to the new ones.

As long as Wyndham has a resort where you want to go it is hard system to beat. Resort wise. I will let others make their own judgements on everything else.

I also have always had good stays at Wyndham resorts. I have also stayed at a Marriott and the unit was spectacular. I can see why they are popular (and expensive.) Having said that, when I'm traveling I'm usually more about the location than the walls that surround me at night.

I guess my one knock on Wyndham's is that many of the units are not as soundproof as they should be. We get intrusive noise from neighbors, even when staying in large presidential units. I'm not sure why they don't have the same kind of firewalls between the units that my townhouse had - I literally never heard my neighbors on either side in my townhome, but I hear them everywhere - above and to the sides - in many of the Wyndhams I've stayed in.
 

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I seem to have gotten much more than I bargained for out of my post.

My family loves to travel and we love Wyndham for many of the reasons listed above. My kids literally think Bonnet Creek is their second home and my wife would love to make Newport hers.

I have actually rented from more than one person on this thread and always find myself bragging about the great deal that I got on my unit. Friends and family have asked how I am able to find such deals. The light bulb went off and I have been thinking that I could supply the same great offerings that some of you have provided me to my own network of friends and families and their friends and families. Word of mouth travels fast when you have children.

I am not looking at this as an investment but rather a way to spend time doing something that interests me and allows the family to travel more often. If it grows into something bigger than that, than that's great.

I'll keep my day job and continue to trade REITs and mREITs while sweetening the return with my buy-write strategy but this doesn't seem like a bad way to be involved in something that you have a passion for.
 

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I was cleaning out a book case today and came across the box that I used years ago to wrap up the "gift" I gave my wife for Christmas 2010. 3 deeds at Wyndhams Fairfeld Harbor converted to 385000 points.... She was not amused . She couldnt believe that I had given her a $175 monthly obligation. Her comment was clear and easily understood,, "She said you had better find a way to rent this crap"

So I did

I started with the goal the BigRob spells out. I rented enough to cover the mf and give us a free mid week stay at Bonnet Creek the week before Christmas.

I added a little each year for a couple of years but then had an opportunity to go big.. so I did.

To answer the "time" question I spend between an hour a day, to all day on this. and I consider my time on TUG and Facebook to be part of the job... so Im working now.
 

ronparise

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I seem to have gotten much more than I bargained for out of my post.

My family loves to travel and we love Wyndham for many of the reasons listed above. My kids literally think Bonnet Creek is their second home and my wife would love to make Newport hers.

I have actually rented from more than one person on this thread and always find myself bragging about the great deal that I got on my unit. Friends and family have asked how I am able to find such deals. The light bulb went off and I have been thinking that I could supply the same great offerings that some of you have provided me to my own network of friends and families and their friends and families. Word of mouth travels fast when you have children.

I am not looking at this as an investment but rather a way to spend time doing something that interests me and allows the family to travel more often. If it grows into something bigger than that, than that's great.

I'll keep my day job and continue to trade REITs and mREITs while sweetening the return with my buy-write strategy but this doesn't seem like a bad way to be involved in something that you have a passion for.

Ill show you what I do if you show me covered calls.. Im thinking Wyn at 71 and write the May 72.5 at 0.70. Thats 1% in less than a month and 3% if called.
 

JudyS

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I seem to have gotten much more than I bargained for out of my post.....
Same thing happened to me on a similar thread I started: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241383
Renting out timeshares is a very controversial topic here, it seems.



I'll keep my day job and continue to trade REITs and mREITs while sweetening the return with my buy-write strategy but this doesn't seem like a bad way to be involved in something that you have a passion for.
Buy-write strategy -- I assume you mean writing a stock option (or maybe an option in another financial instrument) while buying a matching option to hedge your risks? About how much money does one need to write an option? (Before anyone gets upset, I am not planning to do this, at least not unless there is a BIG improvement in my finances. Just curious.)
 

johnluyando

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Ill show you what I do if you show me covered calls.. Im thinking Wyn at 71 and write the May 72.5 at 0.70. Thats 1% in less than a month and 3% if called.

That's a deal! Not a bad play but my game is somewhat different. We're not chasing high premiums. I worked for an extremely large producer, most brilliant man I ever met, but greed got the best of our situation. Needless to say, I moved on but not before learning a thing or two. His book, his millions in production...I went back to the profession I knew best.

I can't trade like I would want/need to to make the most out of the strategy due to my employer restrictions, but it still works just not as lucrative.

The strategy involves using the same dollar as many times as possible to collect as much dividend income as possible. The call sweetens the return and protects some of the downside risk-you know that. I want out of both sides as fast as possible even at a small loss - as long as I'm on record for the dividend.

Since this is a timeshare forum, I won't get into the details. I am sure that this is a known strategy, some may even knock it, but if done CORRECTLY it does to high dividend yielding stocks what you do to Wyndham points.
 

bizaro86

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Ill show you what I do if you show me covered calls.. Im thinking Wyn at 71 and write the May 72.5 at 0.70. Thats 1% in less than a month and 3% if called.

I think you'd be just as well off to sell the May 72.5 put naked. The volume is better, and a naked put is exactly equivalent to a covered call. (Unless you have the stock for a long time and can get long-term capital gains treatment). Depending on where you're getting the money (ie, a margin loan) it may have the significant advantage of using up the margin in your account without actually requiring you to pay interest.

If you get put the shares, then you could turn around and start selling covered calls the next month.
 
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