Looking to buy at Kierland -- where should we be looking?

dioxide45 · Apr 30, 2016

pacman777 said:
The 1 BR deluxe is only 67,100 staroptions. Not 81k

You are right. I get confused with Deluxe and Premium. They sound the same to me. I will amend my post since it seems that the MFs are higher on the 81K premium. Though this seems to make the case better for SVV.

r1lee · Apr 30, 2016

I'm just going by my posted links, that I sent above.

Both wkv are 81k SO @ $1500 MF annual

The SVV is 81k SO @ $1250 MF annual. Similar to all other SVV's I've seen.

Plus the lower cost to the SVV up front, you have a better deal, only for someone looking at SO's though, not including rental, resale etc etc.

vacationtime1 · Apr 30, 2016

Why do you want to purchase WKV or SVV? The math above is useful if the only goal is to have a StarOptions generator.

But if you want to stay in Scottsdale during prime season (i.e. buy to use), then you have to buy a WKV platinum unit; prime weeks at Kierland are not available at the eight month mark for StarOptions trades.

As David points out in post #16, Kierland is a killer renter. I have already rented my March, 2017 week for $2,400 -- a "profit" of about $1,400 vs. the projected MF of about $1,000 (MF's were $980 this year). You can't do that by buying an SVV unit.

This is almost an apples to oranges comparison.

dioxide45 · Apr 30, 2016

r1lee said:
I'm just going by my posted links, that I sent above.

Both wkv are 81k SO @ $1500 MF annual

The SVV is 81k SO @ $1250 MF annual. Similar to all other SVV's I've seen.

Plus the lower cost to the SVV up front, you have a better deal, only for someone looking at SO's though, not including rental, resale etc etc.

I think from a resale stand point, SVV is safer. You can't lose nearly as much. A big capital outlay in WKF could all be lost if they go to $1. I would think you could still sell SVV for even $1 if the market tanks again.

dioxide45 · Apr 30, 2016

vacationtime1 said:
Why do you want to purchase WKV or SVV? The math above is useful if the only goal is to have a StarOptions generator.

But if you want to stay in Scottsdale during prime season (i.e. buy to use), then you have to buy a WKV platinum unit; prime weeks at Kierland are not available at the eight month mark for StarOptions trades.

As David points out in post #16, Kierland is a killer renter. I have already rented my March, 2017 week for $2,400 -- a "profit" of about $1,400 vs. the projected MF of about $1,000 (MF's were $980 this year). You can't do that by buying an SVV unit.

This is almost an apples to oranges comparison.

I am looking for an SO generator and it seems that the OP is too, though perhaps not? Thus why I am looking at the math. The OP didn't say anything about wanting to rent the week out.

vacationtime1 · Apr 30, 2016

dioxide45 said:
I think from a resale stand point, SVV is safer. You can't lose nearly as much. A big capital outlay in WKF could all be lost if they go to $1. I would think you could still sell SVV for even $1 if the market tanks again.

The Kierland unit won't go to $1 because of its rental value. That's what creates its intrinsic value.

But if all you want are StarOptions, I think you are making the better choice simply because there is no need to tie up your capital.

You may also consider the two bedroom Kierland shoulder season. Cost about $3-4K; MF's of $1,460; 81K SO's.

dioxide45 · Apr 30, 2016

vacationtime1 said:
The Kierland unit won't go to $1 because of its rental value. That's what creates its intrinsic value.

But if all you want are StarOptions, I think you are making the better choice simply because there is no need to tie up your capital.

You may also consider the two bedroom Kierland shoulder season. Cost about $3-4K; MF's of $1,460; 81K SO's.

It sounds like the WKV shoulder season may be a worse deal than SVV? Higher MFs and higher upfront than a 81K SVV. I wouldn't expect rentals that time of year to be as coveted.

r1lee · Apr 30, 2016

Just trying to help you guys out based on my relentless research lol. I was looking for 148k SO, and wkv is the best choice with the lowest mf at that SO level. I'm not taking into consideration any other factor (resale, rent etc etc) since we travel a lot and will end up using it rather renting it out.

We are also looking at a ~40k+ SO, and that's when I realize SVV was a better deal considering the lower mf and in some cases, giveaways.

SMHarman · May 1, 2016

dioxide45 said:
Lets look at the hard numbers on this. From a pure usage standpoint. Also consider this is the only VSE week owned. I will compare annual to annual.

WKV 1BR Premium (These numbers are from the MF Database for 2014)
$827.60+140.00=$967.60
81,000/$967.60*1000=$11.95 per 1000 SOs

SVV 2BR (The MF Database numbers for Bella don't look quite right (missing taxes), so this is a close estimate)
$1161.62+$140.00=$1301.62
81,000/$1301.62*1000=$16.07 per 1000 SOs.

The annual savings on MFs between the two is $335. I don't know the exact difference in capital outlay, but it is also safe to say that with SVV, there really isn't any so there is no concern if you can only sell it for $1 down the road because you would have lost at most perhaps a $1000. With WKV, while the past is perhaps the only predictor, you are putting a lot more capital at risk that you may not be able to get back. If the difference in capital is $6000, you have an almost 20 year wait to get the return on your capital outlay.

I guess a lot depends on how long you think you may own the week. If you are buying for the long haul, WKV makes more sense. Own for only a few years or just want to get your feet wet, you may want to consider SVV. You can always sell it later for about the same price you paid, even if you have to give it away.

Your 20 year wait assumed a fall to zero of the c capital invested. Not even getting our what the Florida resort was worth. Change that assumption put a 10% cost of capital / roe and WKV still wins on math. Though WSJ wins at 257k points

dioxide45 · May 1, 2016

SMHarman said:
Your 20 year wait assumed a fall to zero of the c capital invested. Not even getting our what the Florida resort was worth. Change that assumption put a 10% cost of capital / roe and WKV still wins on math. Though WSJ wins at 257k points

It wasn't necessarily that, the same might be true if you can sell both weeks for the same amount they were bought for. I didn't take in to consideration of the opportunity cost of that higher capital investment. Both could be sold down the road with no loss, but that WKV cost a lot more in capital investment because if you had bought SVV, you could have earned a lot of interest on the difference.

YYJMSP · May 1, 2016

vacationtime1 said:
But if you want to stay in Scottsdale during prime season (i.e. buy to use), then you have to buy a WKV platinum unit; prime weeks at Kierland are not available at the eight month mark for StarOptions trades.

I just grabbed two units using SO's at the 8mos out point for staying over Christmas without a problem...

Or is that not "prime weeks"?

cubigbird · May 1, 2016

YYJMSP said:
I just grabbed two units using SO's at the 8mos out point for staying over Christmas without a problem...

Or is that not "prime weeks"?

Christmas at WKV really isn't a prime week. "Prime weeks" are more spring training dates.

Looking to buy at Kierland -- where should we be looking?

dioxide45

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r1lee

vacationtime1

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dioxide45

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dioxide45

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vacationtime1

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dioxide45

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r1lee

SMHarman

dioxide45

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YYJMSP

cubigbird

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