DIY possible-Abbreviated Fl Ancillary Summary Admin

burunduk · Oct 31, 2014

My grandmother passed away a bit over one year ago and she left her 4 kids timeshare weeks in NC and FL. The kids and grandkids do not want/need the weeks but it seems they are not worth too much; however the total estate has several pieces of real estate that have decent value once they are sold which may take some time.

1 - Can they pay the current year MF and then abandon the weeks? I believe my aunt spoke to the timeshare company and they do not want them back, even for free.

2 - From what I have read, it seems the weeks in Fl must go thru an abbreviated Florida Ancillary Summary Administration. Is it possible to do this without a lawyer? The property is in Kissimmee.

Thanks

DeniseM · Oct 31, 2014

They can't abandon them - they will still belong to the estate, but they can file documents with the court to "decline" the inheritance. This must be done BEFORE the TS is transferred to them.

The attorney/executor could contact the resort management and let them know the heirs ARE going to decline the inheritance, and ask them if they would like to have a simple deedback instead.

burunduk · Oct 31, 2014

Will the HOA not be able to go after the estate? There are ample assets to pay the MF for a long time?

They would happily decline the timeshares if possible.

DeniseM · Oct 31, 2014

No - the estate is only responsible for any current maintenance fees.

BocaBoy · Oct 31, 2014

DeniseM said:
No - the estate is only responsible for any current maintenance fees.

The estate will continue to be responsible for as long as it is open, and it can't be closed without some disposition of the property.

Conan · Nov 1, 2014

Florida Probate Code Section 733.612
Transactions authorized for the personal representative; exceptions.—Except as otherwise provided by the will or court order, and subject to the priorities stated in s. 733.805, without court order, a personal representative, acting reasonably for the benefit of the interested persons, may properly:....
(9) Abandon property when it is valueless or so encumbered, or in a condition, that it is of no benefit to the estate....

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0733/Sections/0733.612.html

Conan · Nov 1, 2014

North Carolina General Statutes--Administration of Decedents' Estates. Section 28A-13-3.
Powers of a personal representative or fiduciary.
(a) Except as qualified by express limitations imposed in a will of the decedent or a court order, and subject to the provisions of G.S. 28A-13-6 respecting the powers of joint personal representatives, a personal representative has the power to perform in a reasonable and prudent manner every act which a reasonable and prudent person would perform incident to the collection, preservation, liquidation or distribution of a decedent's estate so as to accomplish the desired result of settling and distributing the decedent's estate in a safe, orderly, accurate and expeditious manner as provided by law, including the powers specified in the following subdivisions:
....
(7) To abandon or relinquish all rights in any property when, in the opinion of the personal representative acting reasonably and in good faith, it is valueless, or is so encumbered or is otherwise in such condition that it is of no benefit to the estate....

http://law.justia.com/codes/north-carolina/2013/chapter-28a/article-13/section-28a-13-3

DeniseM · Nov 1, 2014

BocaBoy said:
The estate will continue to be responsible for as long as it is open, and it can't be closed without some disposition of the property.

So, let's say that the current MF has been paid, the heirs have declined the inheritance and offered it to resort management, and the other assets have been distributed - why do they care if the estate is "closed" or not.

BocaBoy · Nov 1, 2014

DeniseM said:
So, let's say that the current MF has been paid, the heirs have declined the inheritance and offered it to resort management, and the other assets have been distributed - why do they care if the estate is "closed" or not.

The real question is whether all the other assets of the estate can actually be distributed. It is unlikely that a probate court would allow all assets to be distributed when money could still be needed to dispose of this one. The practical issue is not that difficlut--I am sure the estate could pay someone to take it if necessary.

Conan · Nov 1, 2014

BocaBoy said:
The real question is whether all the other assets of the estate can actually be distributed. It is unlikely that a probate court would allow all assets to be distributed when money could still be needed to dispose of this one. The practical issue is not that difficlut--I am sure the estate could pay someone to take it if necessary.

The statutes I quoted above for Florida and North Carolina make clear that the Personal Representative (Executor) has the discretion to abandon a timeshare, and they don't need to involve the probate court to do so.

It would be prudent for the Executor to have the heirs confirm that none of them want the timeshare asset, and the Executor should pay off unpaid maintenance fees existing at the date of death. Having done that the Executor should inform the timeshare operator that the property is being abandoned. There's no need to wait to distribute any other assets to heirs before doing so.

You're wrong to think the probate court needs to be involved in any way.

burunduk · Nov 1, 2014

Thanks very much for the responses. Has anyone ever abandoned properties successfully? I guess I am wondering if this is theoretical or if someone has done it.

Thanks again

BocaBoy · Nov 1, 2014

Conan said:
The statutes I quoted above for Florida and North Carolina make clear that the Personal Representative (Executor) has the discretion to abandon a timeshare, and they don't need to involve the probate court to do so.

It would be prudent for the Executor to have the heirs confirm that none of them want the timeshare asset, and the Executor should pay off unpaid maintenance fees existing at the date of death. Having done that the Executor should inform the timeshare operator that the property is being abandoned. There's no need to wait to distribute any other assets to heirs before doing so.

You're wrong to think the probate court needs to be involved in any way.

Do you understand what the legal meaning of abandon is?

DeniseM · Nov 1, 2014

BocaBoy said:
The real question is whether all the other assets of the estate can actually be distributed. It is unlikely that a probate court would allow all assets to be distributed when money could still be needed to dispose of this one. The practical issue is not that difficlut--I am sure the estate could pay someone to take it if necessary.

This has been discussed on TUG many times and lawyers with experience in this area have opined that the estate is only responsible for the CURRENT maintenance fee - not the fees for all eternity.

burunduk · Nov 1, 2014

Does anyone have the contact details of a lawyer who has experience with abandoning timeshares in NC and/or Florida?

DeniseM · Nov 1, 2014

burunduk said:
Does anyone have the contact details of a lawyer who has experience with abandoning timeshares in NC and/or Florida?

Have you talked to the attorney who is handling the estate?

burunduk · Nov 2, 2014

To my knowledge an attorney is not handling the estate as other than the timeshares it is quite simple. It would be great if someone could recommend an attorney they used or that they are aware of that has experience abandoning timeshares.

Thanks again for all of the replies.

DeniseM · Nov 2, 2014

This is not a situation that experienced timeshares owners are likely to find themselves in, so I don't think that you will find any one here who has personal experience with this process.

Was there an attorney who wrote the will for her?

Here is another idea - LT Transfers is a timeshare title transfer company. They are TUG members, and do a lot of transfers for Tuggers - they are also reputable. They have an attorney on staff, and may be able to advise you on this.

L.T. Transfers
Lisa Short and Mary Pless
http://www.lttransfers.com/
readylegal@gmail.com
706.219.2709

Be aware that now that you have posted here, you may get some shady offers via email, from people offering to get rid of this timeshare for you. Be very careful with that - many of them do not use legal methods, and some are just scammers.

burunduk · Nov 2, 2014

Yes there was, but he is an older fellow that I do not think would have much experience with timeshares. I think the timeshares were an oversight and now no one really has a need for them.

I will suggest they try to list them for sale. Presumably if they sale or transfer them they would not need to probate them in Florida. No one responded on the DIY abbreviated probate in Florida. I am a bit surprised this is not coming up all the time.

Thanks again

DeniseM · Nov 2, 2014

I added one more suggestion to my post, above. When you are talking to them, state that you want to legally "decline" the inheritance. "Abandon" has different connotations - i.e. deeding it to a "Viking Ship" shell company and abandoning it (illegal.)

This question does come up all the time with guest posters - but we usually don't ever hear what the outcome was.

Chances are that the timeshares have no resale value - most don't - but you may be able to give them away.

How to give your timeshare away on TUG: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132509

What ever you do, don't pay a high upfront fee to someone to sell them - that is always a scam. Reputable brokers take their proceeds out of the sale of the timeshare - never upfront.

Conan · Nov 2, 2014

BocaBoy said:
Do you understand what the legal meaning of abandon is?

Voluntary relinquishment of all right, title, claim, and possession, with the intention of not reclaiming it.
....
The voluntary relinquishment of possession of a thing by its owner with the intention of terminating ownership, but without vesting it in any other person. The relinquishing of all title, possession, or claim, or a virtual, intentional throwing away of property.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/abandonment

burunduk · Nov 3, 2014

I looked at the link on how to give away a timeshare - thanks very much.

One question - it is recommended to reserve a popular week for the new owner. What exactly does that mean - sorry, I am new to the timeshare world. I think the timeshares are for specific weeks at a location. If you do not want those weeks you can deposit with RCI and trade for other locations. Apologies if this question does not make sense.

Passepartout · Nov 3, 2014

Some timeshare weeks are 'fixed'. In those, the owner just shows up on the proper date and moves in. Then there are the 'floating' weeks. The deed may well show that the owner has use of a certain week/unit, but not necessarily. They call/write/email the resort for their preferred usage week. So the suggestion above would be to reserve a Summer or other school holiday week. President's week, Easter, Spring Break, Thanksgiving, Christmas/New Years week. Those are more desirable (for obvious reasons.)

Jim

Talent312 · Nov 5, 2014

I would have all prospective beneficiaries and heirs sign a waiver declining the inheritance. If the HOA was willing to take the TS back, they could accept an "Heir's Deed" instead. But since they're not, just decline the inheritance.

Once all heirs have declined the inheritance, the administrator/executor can proceed to abandon the property, and close the estate after a final distribution.

If no administrator/executor exists, simply don't administer the estate and the HOA will have to foreclose. The heirs could be named in the suit for having an interest in the property, but would have no personal liability for the debt.

There is a procedure to bar future claims against the estate, but it requires the publication and service of a notice. The procedure in state where the main-estate is administered should be followed. In Florida, after service of a notice, claimants have 90 days in which to "bill" the estate.

Note: This is just arm-chair quarterbacking and not legal advice. For that, consult a lawyer. The Florida Bar has a referral service for low-fee initial consultations.

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DIY possible-Abbreviated Fl Ancillary Summary Admin

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