"new" annual points only program?

korndoc · Oct 16, 2014

We are at WKORV now and sat through a presentation. After we told the "closer" we were not interested in paying $37,000 for every other year there, he offered a "new" method of buying in. This is a purely points program. We would spend about $27,000 and receive 81,000 Star Option points every year. And these could convert to Star Points if we desire, with 6 years of shelf life. Is this a good deal?
Is a program like this available on resale yet?

Also, interestingly, the salesperson, before the closer, spent most of her time letting us know how our Star Options could be converted to Star Points for use at hotels all over the world. She showed us pictures of the hotels, showed us how much the top hotels would cost but how we could use the Star Points to get in...the points we would get from converting our every other year Star Options. Makes me wonder about the value of the Villas vs the Hotels.
Jeff

ValleyGirl · Oct 16, 2014

Points only?

Need more info! As a staroption owner but not a property owner you probably could reserve only 8 mos out. As stated elsewhere you will not be able to book at peak times and will have no "owner" preference. Even when we book at 8 mos at our home resort we receive a preference on "views" Also at what conversion rate will your SO's convert? Staroptions convert at different rates depending on location and season.
As stated before purchasing SP's is usually not a good idea.
When an individual purchase a new property they are usually given the "right" to purchase 80,000/100,000 starpoints for 1,550/1,900. So 27,000/1,550 means you are pre-paying for 17.5 years worth of SP's with todays dollars. As mentioned before SP's lose their value over time since Starwood often raises the SP's for hotel use.
Also if you use SP's to reserve "Villas" vs hotel rooms you pay a very high SP's vs what the villa options would exchange for.
I would invest my money and earn interest and spend the dollars where and when I wanted.
Okay enough already:ignore:
However; if you are in love with a location a resale week purchase is best as stated elsewhere

YYJMSP · Oct 16, 2014

Points-only ownership

Isn't that how the new Coral Vista phase at WSJ is currently being sold?

You buy some kind of points (HomeOptions?) that get you access to a CV unit during the Home Resort period (12mos - 8mos), or you could exchange them for the same number of StarOptions to make bookings anywhere (8mos or less), or you could exchange them for some set amount of StarPoints to make hotel bookings.

DeniseM · Oct 16, 2014

Yep - sounds like they are promoting the WSJ points program.

Converting to hotel points is almost always a poor value, because you get so few Starpoints, and the underlying maintenance fees are so high.

Also, be aware that Starwood has NEVER increased the Starpoint conversion rate, even though the maintenance fees have double at some resorts.

If you primarily want to visit the Maui resorts, be aware that with a Staroption reservation, you get a floating view, assigned at check-in.

You only get a guaranteed view, if you actually own at one of the Maui resorts, and make a home resort reservation, 8-12 mos. before check-in.

okwiater · Oct 16, 2014

I'm going to pile on and say that if the salesperson said anything along the lines of "This is a purely points program" (from the OP), it's not true. SVO doesn't currently sell any pure points programs. The WSJ Coral Vista points are similar, but technically you own shares in a trust, and that trust only owns Coral Vista. So your "home resort use rights" are still with Coral Vista. Talking about a "pure points program" makes it sound like you would have equal priority/access at all the resorts, and that's certainly not true.

Joshadelic · Oct 16, 2014

korndoc said:
Is this a good deal?

No, it's a horrible deal.

NNerland · Oct 16, 2014

DeniseM said:
Yep - sounds like they are promoting the WSJ points program.

Converting to hotel points is almost always a poor value, because you get so few Starpoints, and the underlying maintenance fees are so high.

Also, be aware that Starwood has NEVER increased the Starpoint conversion rate, even though the maintenance fees have double at some resorts.

I would quit saying NEVER - they just dramatically increased the value of the St John trades in terms of options and points. I realize perhaps the ONLY time it has happened, but be clear and fair. I agree rarely happens, but good information is important.

DeniseM · Oct 16, 2014

I would quit saying NEVER - they just dramatically increased the value of the St John trades in terms of options and points. I realize perhaps the ONLY time it has happened, but be clear and fair. I agree rarely happens, but good information is important.

I will give you that one - but the only reason they did it was to make their new points program at the resort more attractive.

I would not expect them to increase the Starpoints at any other resort, unless it was under similar circumstances that benefit Starwood. They did not do this to help owners, or to make it more equitable for owners.

korndoc · Oct 16, 2014

Thanks. Didn't sound great to us, either. But even if we did I would never buy anything before discussing on TUG

New question. After we refused the option offered by the closer, a 3rd person came in, offering us the following for $2700:
7 nights, 8 days in a studio at the WKORV villas. We have 2 years to use. We will need to sit for another presentation. After sitting for the presentation they add 50,000 Starwood points to our account. That sounds like 5 days at a 12,000 point hotel. These points last 6 years
This deal sounds good to me. She allowed us to leave and think about this. We can get back to her before we leave. What do you think?

Thanks,
Jeff

DeniseM · Oct 16, 2014

You can rent a studio from an owner for less than $1,500.

okwiater · Oct 16, 2014

korndoc said:
New question. After we refused the option offered by the closer, a 3rd person came in, offering us the following for $2700:
7 nights, 8 days in a studio at the WKORV villas. We have 2 years to use. We will need to sit for another presentation. After sitting for the presentation they add 50,000 Starwood points to our account. That sounds like 5 days at a 12,000 point hotel. These points last 6 years
This deal sounds good to me. She allowed us to leave and think about this. We can get back to her before we leave. What do you think?

Thanks,
Jeff

This is called the "Explorer package".

It can be a great deal if you are planning to purchase a timeshare from Starwood anyway. The reason is, they will allow you to apply the $2,700 to the purchase price of the timeshare, but they also let you keep the package trip. Alternatively, they will "buy" back the trip for ~100,000 Starpoints if you haven't used it yet. This is a good way to extract a little extra value from a developer purchase you were going to make anyway (100,000 SPs @ $0.02 = $2,000).

If you don't want to make a developer purchase, it's not that great a deal. The 50,000 SPs are worth about $1,000, so you're paying $1,700 for one week in a studio (probably island view, unless you're traveling during a low demand week), but with the additional restrictions that you must travel within 2 years and you must attend another sales presentation. I would think you can rent a studio with less hassle.

That said, it's not a horrible deal as long as you can use the package in some way. I certainly wouldn't lose any sleep if I purchased the package and knew I could travel within the 2 years.

DavidnRobin · Oct 16, 2014

YYJMSP said:
Isn't that how the new Coral Vista phase at WSJ is currently being sold?

You buy some kind of points (HomeOptions?) that get you access to a CV unit during the Home Resort period (12mos - 8mos), or you could exchange them for the same number of StarOptions to make bookings anywhere (8mos or less), or you could exchange them for some set amount of StarPoints to make hotel bookings.

I believe WLR also works the same as WSJ-CV - buying into trust vs specific deeded VOI.

As mentioned - WSJ did increase SO-SP conversion amount - but still far from adequate and still not aligned based on the high MFs at WSJ.
They also increased SOs at WSJ (twice for VGV) to better aligned them.

YYJMSP · Oct 16, 2014

okwiater said:
The WSJ Coral Vista points are similar, but technically you own shares in a trust, and that trust only owns Coral Vista. So your "home resort use rights" are still with Coral Vista. Talking about a "pure points program" makes it sound like you would have equal priority/access at all the resorts, and that's certainly not true.

WLR is the same way -- you own a "certificate" in the company that owns the deeds. Your certificate gets a priority booking at your home resort at 12-8mos out and then you can use it for StarOptions from 8mos. You can also convert it to StarPoints.

lizap · Oct 17, 2014

Take the $2700 and put it toward a resale unit...

korndoc said:
Thanks. Didn't sound great to us, either. But even if we did I would never buy anything before discussing on TUG

New question. After we refused the option offered by the closer, a 3rd person came in, offering us the following for $2700:
7 nights, 8 days in a studio at the WKORV villas. We have 2 years to use. We will need to sit for another presentation. After sitting for the presentation they add 50,000 Starwood points to our account. That sounds like 5 days at a 12,000 point hotel. These points last 6 years
This deal sounds good to me. She allowed us to leave and think about this. We can get back to her before we leave. What do you think?

Thanks,
Jeff

korndoc · Oct 17, 2014

Thanks everyone.
We are planning to return to Hawaii in the next year or 2. We are already on the hook to sit for a Hilton Presentation on the Big Island in the next 1.5 years. We signed on for 7 nights, 8 days for $750 in a hotel room there, so figured we would complete a 2 week vacation here in Maui, at the Westin.

David - looked for your umbrella with the double lounges in front of the South section. Ready for Ana?
Jeff