Interval Leisure Group buys Starwood, then Starwood and Marriott merge. Means what?

okwiater said:

A combined loyalty program is likely to be launched in 2018, and Vistana's agreement guarantees TS owners access to any such replacement program. Once a single unified program is launched I don't see how or why Vistana-derived hotel points could be restricted.

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Really? Are you sure? Where is that written? Is this only for developer-purchased properties with Staroptions?

vistana101 said:

It is interesting that any points from timeshares cannot be transferred to Marriott or vice versa...hope that isn't a clue of what's to happen in the future.

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The Haileys said:

What is the definition of TS derived points? Converted StarOptions? Bonus points for purchase of TS? Points for attending presentations or owner updates? Points earned from on-site spending while using TS? Point packages purchased with offer for new TS owners?

And then, how do they determine the origin of each point, especially after redemptions and mixed methods of earning??

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DeniseM said:

TS derived points = Starpoints from converting your timeshare to Starpoints.

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Marriott docs in the timeshare and hotel companies have always stated a restriction that MRP (Marriott Rewards Points) derived from exchanging Weeks* cannot be used to book redemption stays at the timeshare properties. For what it's worth they've never enforced that restriction, and we don't know if that's because they're not able to track MRP origins or if that's simply how they've chosen to operate.

Going forward it will be interesting to see how they approach it because Marriott is saying that sometime during 2018 they'll be more fully integrating the SPG and MR programs. I'm wondering if in the interim they'll be exploring an external affiliation with VSE, or, if Starpoints from VSE timeshares will always be on the outside looking in. If that's the case then I would expect them to start enforcing the existing restriction for Marriott timeshare owners.

*It's worth noting (but I'm trying not to confuse the issue any more than it already is!) that the only MVW Weeks that can be exchanged for MRP are those purchased direct or enrolled in the Destination Club timeshare points program.

rickandcindy23 said:

Really? Are you sure? Where is that written? Is this only for developer-purchased properties with Staroptions?

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It's written in the affiliation agreement between Vistana and SPG that Vistana owners are paying millions of dollars annually to maintain.

okwiater said:

It's written in the affiliation agreement between Vistana and SPG that Vistana owners are paying millions of dollars annually to maintain.

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The problem with agreements is that there is always some kind of cancellation clause, especially when one of the parties ceases to exist.



Does anyone have the actual agreement text?

SueDonJ said:

Marriott docs in the timeshare and hotel companies have always stated a restriction that MRP (Marriott Rewards Points) derived from exchanging Weeks* cannot be used to book redemption stays at the timeshare properties. For what it's worth they've never enforced that restriction, and we don't know if that's because they're not able to track MRP origins or if that's simply how they've chosen to operate.

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This is also the case with VSE to SPG. You are restricted from using VSE ownership converted points from booking back at a VSE property.



In my experience, there are ways to muddle the origin of the points if you earned some points from elsewhere, or even make it lose the origin of the points completely.

I have posted the text before...here are a few key points from the agreement (bolding mine).

The general agreement:

In connection with the License Agreement, Starwood and its affiliate, Preferred Guest, Inc., and Vistana will enter into the SPG Affiliation Agreement, which will provide for the continued participation of Vistana, the Westin®, Sheraton®, St. Regis® and The Luxury Collection®, branded properties and certain licensed unbranded vacation ownership properties in Starwood's Starwood Preferred Guest® loyalty program. The SPG Affiliation Agreement permits Vistana and its affiliates to offer Starpoints® to SPG Members as an incentive upon purchase of a Vistana vacation ownership property, for conversion of a licensed vacation ownership interest or property...

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And a part specifically about SPG being merged into another program:

Merger of Programs. In the event the SPG Program is combined with or becomes part of another Loyalty Program, Starwood shall treat Owners who hold Starpoints in a manner consistent with other SPG Members other than with respect to the rights described in Sections 4(a) and 6(a).

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Note that Section 4(a) deals with 6 year expiration of starpoints, and 6(a) deals with elite status offerings....

Elite Status (I wonder how this will end up with Marriott):

a)Elite Offerings. Vistana may provide (i) Gold Preferred Guest status in the SPG Program to any Owner of a Licensed Vacation Ownership Property (other than Specified Fractional Properties) or a Licensed Unbranded Property until such Owner is no longer an Owner of such Vacation Ownership Property; (ii) Platinum Preferred Guest status in the SPG Program to any initial purchaser of fractional units at Specified Fractional Properties during such initial purchaser’s term of ownership of such fractional unit; and (iii) Platinum Preferred Guest status in the SPG Program to any Owner who is a Five Star Elite member (as defined in the Vistana Specific Use SOP) until such Owner is no longer an Owner of Licensed Vacation Ownership Properties or Licensed Unbranded Properties or fails to meet the Five Star Elite member requirements which are set forth in the Vistana Specific Use SOP (collectively, the “Elite Offerings”).

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My main concerns are how the elite status will work with the new program, as well as the final point conversion rate. Hoping that the benefit isn't devalued even more!!

Question for Marriott timeshare owners: How are your points conversions? (How many points do you get-good value?)

vistana101 said:

I have posted the text before...here are a few key points from the agreement (bolding mine).

The general agreement:



And a part specifically about SPG being merged into another program:



Note that Section 4(a) deals with 6 year expiration of starpoints, and 6(a) deals with elite status offerings....

Elite Status (I wonder how this will end up with Marriott):



My main concerns are how the elite status will work with the new program, as well as the final point conversion rate. Hoping that the benefit isn't devalued even more!!

Question for Marriott timeshare owners: How are your points conversions? (How many points do you get-good value?)

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First off, what is Five Star Elite Status?

The conversion rate is 3:1 Marriott to SPG OR 1 Starpoint = 3 Marriott Reward points.

If you attained Gold Status with SPG by buying directly from the developer you will be Gold Status with Mariott. No restrictions. Look at my post that should explain things

The best use of MRP is in Leisure Travel Packages. I'm not sure if Vistana has the same thing. As a MVCI owner you can buy a package that includes a five night, or seven night, stay in various Marriott hotel categories--- and also includes Frequent Flyer Miles. I took my family to Puerto Rico using this package. We all flew first class and stayed in oceanfront rooms while at the resort. And since I was an Elite member I got 30% off my food and drinks in the main dining room. When I traveled to Europe I did the same first class type flights and we were able to eat and drink all day in the lounges.

icydog said:

First off, what is Five Star Elite Status?

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This is a status level of Vistana timeshare ownership - it means that you own at least 649,000 developer Staroptions. (Either purchased from the developer or re-qualified by the developer.)

For comparison - a standard 2 bdm. at the Maui Resorts is 148,100 Staroptions.

The way this relates to SPG HOTEL status, is that if you are Vistana TIMESHARE 5 Star Elite, you automatically get SPG HOTEL Platinum status (as long as you own the required number of Staroptions.)

icydog said:

First off, what is Five Star Elite Status?

The conversion rate is 3:1 Marriott to SPG OR 1 Starpoint = 3 Marriott Reward points.

If you attained Gold Status with SPG by buying directly from the developer you will be Gold Status with Mariott. No restrictions. Look at my post that should explain things

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Yes this is the current conversion rate and status matching, but it is all temporary until a new program is created and everything officially merges in 2018. I wonder at that point what the new program will look like and how our SPG points/status will fit into the new program.

One of the best pieces of advice comes from FlyerTalk - take advantage while you can, and don't store points (they devaluate relatively quickly). It appears that transferring to Marriott and using quickly may offer best value (if you are okay w/ Marriott). The upside for us is the huge expansion of hotel choices.

Yes-there is particular value in converting to Marriott points and redeeming at the higher end resorts. The highest category Marriott will cost 15,000 starpoints, while the highest category Ritz will cost about 23,000 starpoints, which is great in comparison to 35,000 points for the highest SPG property in peak season (excluding the high point values for all suite properties).

vistana101 said:

Yes-there is particular value in converting to Marriott points and redeeming at the higher end resorts. The highest category Marriott will cost 15,000 starpoints, while the highest category Ritz will cost about 23,000 starpoints, which is great in comparison to 35,000 points for the highest SPG property in peak season (excluding the high point values for all suite properties).

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Where are you staying? My Marriott stays cost me 30k and a JW 35k per night and I don't consider them outstanding places or locations.

canesfan said:

Where are you staying? My Marriott stays cost me 30k and a JW 35k per night and I don't consider them outstanding places or locations.

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15,000 Starpionts=45,000 MRP

dioxide45 said:

15,000 Starpionts=45,000 MRP

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Ah- I was having a moment. I totally skipped over the SP in the sentence.
I still think using MRs at SPG hotels are the way to go, if you have the points. Which we do.

I think it may be somewhat dependent on the location. I am point-pricing hotels in Honolulu and on the Big Island, and I am finding that Marriotts are by far the better value there. I'm looking at the Waikiki Beach Marriott for 160K MR or 53.3K SP for a city view for 5 nights. Compare to Sheraton Waikiki at 80K SP for 5 nights. (Both are 5th night free)

On the Big Island, the price points are closer. The Sheraton Kona is 40K SP for 5 nights, and the Courtyard is 120K MR (40K SP), so same point-price for both. But up the road a ways, a a category higher is the Waikoloa Ocean Resort, starting at 140K MR (46.6 SP) for garden view, but upgrading with points is possible, up to 240K for OF, which is 80K SP. We're pretty sure we're going to book a King corner room (larger) with partial OV for 190K MR (63.3K SP).

On Maui, both the Sheraton and Westin are 16K per night. The Ritz is 60K MR per night, or 20K SP. Wailea Beach and Residence Inn are 40K MR per night, or 13.3K SP.

Geez ... Marriott is a bargain in Hawaii!

I agree, there are some nice Marriott options in Hawaii and Northern California where I live. Ritz is a deal compared to St Regis. Starwood inflated all the SF hotels to 20k points.

SPG upgrades for Platinum are pretty nice. Does anyone have experience with Marriott Platinum upgrades?