Maui Resort Property Tax increase significantly?

DeniseM · Nov 8, 2009

pharmgirl said:
I suggest we all write to Maui County authorities to protest the increase on timeshares

Since the WKORV increase is so high, I will notify the Maui County authorities that we will NOT use restaurants, activities, etc that cost the amount of the increase

Does anyone know address or names, boards, etc in Maui to direct letter?
this of course is in addition to writing to HOA

See post #115 and #119.

Maui County Real Property Website - http://www.co.maui.hi.us/index.aspx?NID=576

pharmgirl · Nov 8, 2009

Thanks, I will be writing to Maui County!! That will be $270 we will not spend in Maui restaurants, activities, etc

Here are the fees for the new Maui Marriott, also a substantial tax increase
but about the same as a 2 BR WKORV increase of 227 for Marriott and about $272 average for westin according to brochure

MOC -- Lahaina Towers
Here's the MFs for my unit (a 3BR):

Fiscal Year Description Due Date Amount Dues
2010 Reserve Fee 2010-01-08 197.13
2010 Property Tax Fee 2010-01-08 388.25
2010 Operating Fee 2010-01-08 1690.42
Total Charges $2275.80

Reserve fee was $181 in 2009, so 10% increase
Property taxes were $161 in 2009, so almost 250% increase
Operating fee was $1,838 in 2009, so 8% decrease

Troopers · Nov 10, 2009

*WoodMFs2Hi said:
Interesting in comparing posts 1 and 2 in this thread... WKORVN letter talked a lot about energy savings to offset the tax. Yet (i) the MFs went up just as much as WKORV, which didn't have the "energy clause" and (ii) MFs went up even net of the tax increase impact. Makes you wonder where those savings went...

WKORV did have the energy savings...it just wasn't posted in post 1. See here.

Troopers · Nov 10, 2009

Troopers said:
Update:

No Starwood (or Marriott) appeals heard in yesterday's hearing, Oct 21, 2009. Hearing agenda is here. All appeals are FY 2008, not FY 2009 appeals.

Next hearing is Nov 4, 2009. I'll keep everyone posted.

Update:

No Starwood (or Marriott) appeals heard on Nov 4, 2009 hearing.

Next hearing is possibly Dec 2, 2009.

DeniseM · Nov 10, 2009

Troopers said:
Update:

No Starwood (or Marriott) appeals heard on Nov 4, 2009 hearing.

Next hearing is possibly Dec 2, 2009.

See post #115:

The annual summary that came with the latest WKORV bill says:

The Association has begun the appeal process to protest the valuation methodology of this proposed assessment increase and has submitted tax protests to Maui County. The required tax payments have been paid under protest and the payments have been placed in a litigation funds account pending the outcome of the valuation protest. Neither the Association nor Maui County will have access to these funds until the dispute is resolved.

The Management Company will use tax consultants and attorneys to fight on behalf of the Association. Additionlally, ARDA-Hawai'i has been actively involved and will continue to pursue the issue on behalf of all timeshare owners in Maui.

While the exact date has not yet been set, this matter will be scheduled for a hearing in 2010, and the Management Company will provide addtional updates in the future if the situation is resolved wither through the formal protest process or through negotiations with Maui County.

Troopers · Nov 10, 2009

DeniseM said:
See post #115:

Thanks Denise. I received the same info.

I'm interested in Marriott as well.

mwoody5569 · Nov 23, 2009

The protest of this seems pretty easy to me- just boycott Maui- I guess to be effective all of the Hawaiin islands. Even if we are stuck paying the property tax, do we realize what type of impact we would have if all of the sales revenues/taxes left that (island)state from vacation owners alone? Convert your stay to points and stay somewhere else until the taxes become more reasonable. Let's call the media while we're at it- THEN write letters. Let the residents vote their officials out of office when they all start losing their jobs.

DeniseM · Nov 23, 2009

Welcome to TUG, mwoody5569! :hi:

Convert your stay to points and stay somewhere else until the taxes become more reasonable.

Unfortunately, converting to Starpoints is a really bad value. For a 2 bdm. you only get 80K Starpoints and that is pitiful when you consider that the maintenance fee ranges from $2,346 - $3,076. It's actually cheaper to BUY Starpoints from Starwood than to convert!

Plus, converting to Starpoints isn't even an option for resale owners.

Also - this tax is only in Maui County - not all of the islands.

mwoody5569 · Nov 23, 2009

boycott maui

and let the reps know you are if you are a timeshare owner like myself. I will be converting my ownership to points every year and taking my money elsewhere.

their email addresses including the mayor:

mayors.office@mauicounty.gov, danny.mateo@mauicounty.us, bill.medeiros@mauicounty.us, wayne.nishiki@mauicounty.us, joseph.pontanilla@mauicounty.us, michael.victorino@mauicounty.us, michael.molina@mauicounty.us, gladys.baisa@mauicounty.us, jo_anne.johnson@mauicounty.us, Sol.Kahoohalahala@mauicounty.us

http://www.co.maui.hi.us/documents/Mayor's%20Office/Budget/FY2010%20Budget/FY%202010%20Proposed%20Budget_Mayor's%20Remarks.PDF

from the revenues section of the mayor’s budget press statement:

The proposed budget for Fiscal Year 2010 requires county revenues totaling $572 million, a 2% increase over Fiscal Year 2009. Net real property tax revenues of $235.7 million are anticipated, representing 40% of all County revenues. Property values have leveled off, and even declined in most categories. However, we have seen increased valuations in Hotel and Timeshare categories, leading to an overall increase of real property tax revenue of $15.4 million, or 7%. Again, no proposed increases to property tax rates are proposed for Fiscal Year 2010.

mwoody5569 · Nov 23, 2009

I understand about the maui only tax- but I think that the hawaii governor and businesses wouldn't be all too happy with the reduced revenues across all islands and couldn't we use all the strong arming we can get?

DeniseM · Nov 23, 2009

mwoody5569 - Be sure you read the other posts in this thread to see what info. has already been discussed/shared here.

Converting to Starpoints is a poor value. I personally am not willing to convert to Starpoints and get a measly 80K points for my $2,400 maintenance fee. 80K Starpoints will only get you 7 nights in a standard room at nicer Starwood hotels - not worth $2,400 to me!

mwoody5569 · Nov 23, 2009

I know- but the principal is worth it to me- I can use cash and points and spread it out and with the money I save on excursions and food I will still come out ahead. At what point will you shut them down in their tracks? when your fees go to 3K, 4K, 5K? This isn't what I signed up for- I'm ready to just walk away from this at this point.

DeniseM · Nov 23, 2009

This is the thing, just because you convert to Starpoints doesn't mean your unit will sit empty. Starwood will just rent it to someone else, who will spend money on Maui, and you will continue paying the maintenance fee and the taxes.... I am glad to have you on our team, but I think it will take a more direct approach.

zeke013 · Nov 25, 2009

pharmgirl said:
Thanks, I will be writing to Maui County!! That will be $270 we will not spend in Maui restaurants, activities, etc

I doubt that will have any impact. They'd rather have your $270 directly from you rather than have you spend the $270 in local businesses where they may get 8 or 9% of that amount.

Sure, the local economy may slow down - but they're more than making up for it.

DanCali · Nov 25, 2009

zeke013 said:
Sure, the local economy may slow down - but they're more than making up for it.

Very true - but locals can vote elected officials out of office... If they start hurting because we spend less they will turn to their elected officials who caused this mess (at least that's the hope).

Troopers · Dec 14, 2009

Troopers said:
Update:

No Starwood (or Marriott) appeals heard on Nov 4, 2009 hearing.

Next hearing is possibly Dec 2, 2009.

Update:

No Starwood (or Marriott) appeals heard on Dec 2, 2009 hearing.

Next hearing is early January 2010.

Fredm · Dec 15, 2009

DanCali said:
Very true - but locals can vote elected officials out of office... If they start hurting because we spend less they will turn to their elected officials who caused this mess (at least that's the hope).

I don't think that will happen.
The simple and pleasing message to the voting constituency
is this.Read carefully what it says:

from the revenues section of the mayor’s budget press statement.

"The proposed budget for Fiscal Year 2010 requires county revenues totaling $572 million, a 2% increase over Fiscal Year 2009. Net real property tax revenues of $235.7 million are anticipated, representing 40% of all County revenues. Property values have leveled off, and even declined in most categories. However, we have seen increased valuations in Hotel and Timeshare categories, leading to an overall increase of real property tax revenue of $15.4 million, or 7%. Again, no proposed increases to property tax rates are proposed for Fiscal Year 2010."

Yes, the tax is being appealed. Want to bet they won't give it back?

This is the timeshare owners fight.
IMO the only way it will be successfully resolved is through a legal challenge to the basis and computation of the tax assessment.

Then, a legal challenge to the excise tax levied on HOA dues.

Then, a legal challenge to the TOT on an owner's occupancy.

If there was ever a justification for the optional $5 payment of ARDA dues, this is it. ARDA should aggressively step up to these matters with a legal challenge. It is an industry-wide issue, properly spearheaded by an advocacy organization.

Ken555 · Dec 15, 2009

Fredm said:
If there was ever a justification for the optional $5 payment of ARDA dues, this is it. ARDA should aggressively step up to these matters with a legal challenge. It is an industry-wide issue, properly spearheaded by an advocacy organization.

If ARDA setup a legal fund for this purpose, I (and I assume others - especially those who own in Maui) might be more inclined to contribute. As it is, I have no influence over where ARDA spends the contribution. They could use it to fight in some other location for purely developer benefit. This is the fundamental problem as I see it with ARDA - again, read the name of their organization... On the other hand, if we had an "American Timeshare Owners Association" (ATOA) I would be much more comfortable becoming a member or a contributor (hmm... has that been tried before? is there one under a different name?).

Fredm · Dec 15, 2009

Ken555 said:
If ARDA setup a legal fund for this purpose, I (and I assume others - especially those who own in Maui) might be more inclined to contribute. As it is, I have no influence over where ARDA spends the contribution. They could use it to fight in some other location for purely developer benefit. This is the fundamental problem as I see it with ARDA - again, read the name of their organization... On the other hand, if we had an "American Timeshare Owners Association" (ATOA) I would be much more comfortable becoming a member or a contributor (hmm... has that been tried before? is there one under a different name?).

I agree with you.

ARDA is a DEVELOPER advocacy group.
But, many do pay the five bucks. ARDA should do something for money it solicits.

Ken555 · Dec 15, 2009

Fredm said:
I agree with you.

ARDA is a DEVELOPER advocacy group.
But, many do pay the five bucks. ARDA should do something for money it solicits.

ARDA does. They support the developer. :crash:

nodge · Jan 24, 2010

Here's an article on this subject that ran in last Friday's Pacific Business News in Honolulu.

FredM is that you being quoted in the article? If so, did the reporter find you through TUG? Do tell.

-nodge

Fredm · Jan 25, 2010

nodge said:
Here's an article on this subject that ran in last Friday's Pacific Business News in Honolulu.

FredM is that you being quoted in the article? If so, did the reporter find you through TUG? Do tell.

-nodge

Yep, it's me.

The reporter, Janis Magin, contacted me last week.
She may have found me on TUG. Would not be surprised.
TUG was mentioned in the article. Yeah!
I also consult to the investment community on the timeshare industry. Someone may have pointed her in my direction.
I didn't ask.

I am glad this issue is getting some visibility. It is the most outrageous abuse of taxing authority I have ever witnessed. It may even be illegal. Shame on them.

Hole19 · Jan 26, 2010

Hello....brand new to TUGS here.
Very helpful to see that we're not alone when it comes to frustration with our Maui time-share!!
My wife and I bought @ WKORV in Sept. 2008. It seems to me that there is an issue of "full disclosure" on the part of Starwood and the sales staff. CLEARLY they knew this tax increase was imminent. The recent Pac. Bus. News article shows that this valuation system was put into law in 2005!!
I wrote the President of Starwood about this and one of his assistants got back to me and they denied knowing anything about the eventual increase. However, I also spoke to a Maui County rep and he said Starwood "absolutely" knew the higher rates would go into affect once construction was completed on the North building. Somebody is not being honest and I'm starting to think Starwood has more to hide than Maui County.
Do we have any "full disclosure" recourse?? We would not have agreed to the deal had we been given all the facts I feel we were entitled to.

Fredm · Jan 26, 2010

Hole19 said:
Hello....brand new to TUGS here.
Very helpful to see that we're not alone when it comes to frustration with our Maui time-share!!
My wife and I bought @ WKORV in Sept. 2008. It seems to me that there is an issue of "full disclosure" on the part of Starwood and the sales staff. CLEARLY they knew this tax increase was imminent. The recent Pac. Bus. News article shows that this valuation system was put into law in 2005!!
I wrote the President of Starwood about this and one of his assistants got back to me and they denied knowing anything about the eventual increase. However, I also spoke to a Maui County rep and he said Starwood "absolutely" knew the higher rates would go into affect once construction was completed on the North building. Somebody is not being honest and I'm starting to think Starwood has more to hide than Maui County.
Do we have any "full disclosure" recourse?? We would not have agreed to the deal had we been given all the facts I feel we were entitled to.

Hole19, there are two components to the tax calculation.
The tax rate, which was increased to $14 per 1000 several years ago.

The 2010 increase was due to the increase in assessed valuation.

Starwood had no prior knowledge of this increase, which accounts for the doubling of taxes in 2010.

Hole19 · Jan 26, 2010

Thanks Fred, Are we SURE Starwood had no idea?? My contact at Maui County confirmed nothing was in writing but the understanding was clear that eventually the Ocean Resort Villas properties would be re-classified from "hotel" to "condo" valuations. I'm learning as I go here and still trying to make sense of it all. Just feeling a bit duped!!

Maui Resort Property Tax increase significantly?

DeniseM

pharmgirl

Troopers

Troopers

DeniseM

Troopers

mwoody5569

DeniseM

mwoody5569

mwoody5569

DeniseM

mwoody5569

DeniseM

zeke013

DanCali

Troopers

Fredm

Ken555

TUG Review Crew: Veteran

Fredm

Ken555

TUG Review Crew: Veteran

nodge

Fredm

Hole19

Fredm

Hole19