Need advise...

My elderly mother is trying to sell a Hawaii timeshare that she has never used, but has continued to pay escalating maintenance fees. She took it upon herself to pay a company to take it off of her hands. They gave her quite the run around for several months claiming that they had not received proper documents from her, then they said they had a buyer, then they said the buyer backed out... blah, blah, blah. She finally got a letter saying the company she had contracted (and paid) had filed bankruptcy and that another company would take over the process of relieving her of her timeshare for an additional fee. She now realizes that she was ripped off and now plans to do nothing with the timeshare.... including, not paying the maintenance fee. She says they will have to take her to jail.... she's fed up with it.

Should I be concerned for my 80-year old mother? What happens when a maintenance fee isn't paid?

I hope to be able to convince my mother to sell (or give-a-way) the timeshare so that there are no legal pitfalls for her to suffer through. Now that I know about this forum, I will rely on the advise that I find here to help her do this right... if she'll let me.... she's pretty pigheaded and feisty.

Thanks for being there.

Alma's daughter.

What company did she pay? Why did she buy a timeshare she didn't ever use?

Certainly someone would take the week, unless it is at a resort that won't even sell for $1 on eBay. Most Hawaii resorts are very nice and shouldn't be difficult to give away. I would offer it free on TUG, in the bargain basement timeshare section, and you should also advertise it elsewhere, like www.myresortnetwork.com, www.vacationtimesharerentals.com and possibly www.redweek.com. There are other venues, but don't pay a large fee to advertise, because a free Hawaii week should be very easy to give to someone.

Why don't you (her daughter) offer to take it off her hands and use it?

If she simply stops paying the MF's... They will lock her out, report her delinquency to credit reporting agencies, send the debt to a collection agency who will harass her with phone calls & letters, and lastly, sue for foreclosure and a deficiency judgment.

If she does this, I'd suggest that she remove her name from any other real or personal property so that she'd be "judgment proof" -- meaning that no other assets could be seized to enforce a judgment and there would be no probate assets against which a claim could be made.

Before jumping into giving it away for free, why not advertise it on Ebay? Given that it is Hawaii, it might actually be worth some money. If it doesn't sell on Ebay, then try the giving away route.

Stopping payment of the maintenance fees should be her last option, due to the financial headaches it will cause.

Kurt

Thanks to all for the replies.

15-years ago, my step-father and my mother were vacationing in Hawaii and got sucked into a timeshare sales pitch. Actually, my mother knew it was a bad idea, but the salesman convinced Daddy that the whole family could enjoy this for years to come. (Daddy failed to consider that he was the only one in the family who enjoyed travel... the rest of us are "home bodies" with no interest in going to Hawaii.) Anyhow, Daddy bought into it, Mom went along with it like the good wife, and neither they nor anyone else in the family ever spent a night in it because when they bought it, they bought it sight unseen because it was supposedly "under renovations". I have often wondered if the place really even exists.

Fast forward to the present... Daddy died suddenly 2-yrs ago. Last year Mom saw an advertisement in the local newspaper for a seminar to relieve timeshare owners of their timeshares. She went to the seminar at one of the local hotels, wrote them a check on the spot and then the run-a-round began.

The company that she wrote the check to was called "Out of Time Share" located in Rancho Cucamonga, CA. and run by a fellow by the name of David Halpern. For some reason, they fooled her around for a couple of months and then informed her that she needed to deal with a company called "TimeShare CloseOut" located in Reno, NV. After dealing with them, unsuccessfully, she received a letter saying that "TimeShare CloseOut" had filed for bankruptcy and that she should contact "The Timeshare Company" out of DeForest, WI and pay them more money to finalize the reselling of her timeshare.

The sad thing is that she also had her own local attorney involved in advising her and helping her to fill out the forms and make the phone calls to gain some level of satisfaction. I feel like her attorney did her no favors, but he got his money too.

Just last evening, I found "TimeShare CloseOut" on the internet and they claim that they are not in bankruptcy. Now I'm even more confused about who my mother has been in contact with and whether any of these businesses are legit or are somehow in cahoots with one another to propagate their scam. I now plan to fire her attorney and take over this whole nightmare for her (whether she likes it or not). I'm tired of everyone treating my mother like an ATM machine and am hopeful that with help of the good folks here at this forum, that I can help her to put all of this to rest.

As for the suggestions here for trying to sell it ourselves (or give it away)... yes, this will become my new mission in life. I just need to research your forum a bit more to learn how to go about it. (ie, marketing something I've never seen and wonder if it exists, transferring of deed and maintenance contracts, etc.)

If I give you the information about the timeshare, could someone here verify its existence?

I know all of this makes us sound pretty stupid, but truth be known, we are small-town country folk. Where we come from, we don't lock our doors, the keys are in the ignition of the truck park around back, and our word is our bond. Perhaps if we did travel more, we would be far less trusting of our fellow man. That said, I think I really prefer to stay home.

Again... thanks for the replies.

Alma's daughter, Jane

why don't have your mothers lawyer form a LLC or corp, transfer the TS into said entity. Pay m/f for a year, stop paying and let entity go belly up with that entity's only asset being the TS. Let them collect from the Bankrupt LLC or corp. God luck to the HOA.

Jane

You can't post the name of the timeshare here because it is against TUG rules. If you send me a private message, I can verify for you.

Unless your mom owns a branded timeshare such as Marriott, Hilton or Westin, it is likely worth very little. You can do a search of completed auctions on ebay to get an idea of recent selling prices.

All you need to begin the process of selling or giving away the timeshare is a copy of the deed. The deed will indicate what size unit you mom owns as well as the season and any other description of the unit.

It can take several months (or more) to sell a timeshare, so I would suggest you get it listed ASAP. 2010 maintenance fees will be due before you know it.

UGH!!!!!!!!

e.bram said:

why don't have your mothers lawyer form a LLC or corp, transfer the TS into said entity. Pay m/f for a year, stop paying and let entity go belly up with that entity's only asset being the TS. Let them collect from the Bankrupt LLC or corp. God luck to the HOA.

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Will you please stop posting this garbage!

e.bram said:

why don't have your mothers lawyer... Good luck to the HOA.

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Becuz that's a fraudulent transfer which any lawyer worth their salt could pierce and could lead to liability for triple damages. Guess who'll pay deadbeat-gradma's MF's in the meantime... the other owners.

Logie said:

Daddy died suddenly 2-yrs ago. Last year Mom saw an advertisement in the local newspaper for a seminar to relieve timeshare owners of their timeshares. She went to the seminar at one of the local hotels, wrote them a check on the spot and then the run-a-round began.

...She received a letter saying that "TimeShare CloseOut" had filed for bankruptcy and that she should contact "The Timeshare Company" out of DeForest, WI and pay them more money to finalize the reselling of her timeshare.

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Do not pay any more money upfront to anyone claiming they can unburden you of a TS. NO company that takes money upfront for this purpose is worth their salt. They are not licensed by the state. Once they have your $$, the imaginary buyer backs out, they need more money for advertising (on a website no one ever sees), and then no one "wants" your TS. You'll be out mega-bucks and they'll be no refund. In short, ITS A SCAM.

A licensed broker will work on commission, like they're supposed to, but they won't do much more than you can do yourself to market the property.

If you can not find a deed, but know the name of the timeshare, look up thier website and see if youi can find a contact us email.

If no deed, look over your families check book or other paper work they may have kept with a check or money order sent to someone in Hawaii.

You might also look over their last years tax returns and see if you are missing some type of investments. All income would be listed for tax purpose ie., interest, dividends, and may even include something about the timeshare.

You are correct in that your father made a mistake and your mom went along with her. Anyone, including me, who can purchase a time share for less than $10 and or accepts one as a gift, should have thier head examined.

OOPs Wrong thread

Sbk:
Why?????

e.bram said:

i don't think a foreigner can be a deeded owner of real estate in Mexico.

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Huh? Who said anything about Mexico?

Need advise....

I really like E-bram's thought processes, but also agree with Talent312... two wrongs don't make a right. Today, I advised my mother to pay her MF and just sit back and let me research her options.

For now, I hope to learn what the timeshare is and whether it has any value.

My other curiosity has to do with the company's who scam people into paying upfront fees to do something that never gets done. How do these fraudulent companies get away with it? Or, better yet, how can they be stopped?

Thanks for the continued feedback... please keep it coming.

Jane

Logie;
What iswrong with putting an asset in a limited liability entity?
And if you can't make go belly up. GM and Chrysler(and others) did it with government blessing. why can't you. you are entitled to protect yourself for a claim made againt you as a TS owner. suppose the TS didn't have proper insurance or failed to pay the premium(it's like having no car insurance), you are on the hook as an personal owner. why should you have a problem if the TS is mismanaged . But if you own the TS in a personal name , like it or not you are LIABLE if someone is injured or worse at the TS. Think about it. These limited liability entities were made legal by the government for a reason. There is NOTHING wrong with taking advantage with a legal means to protect yourself. Selling your parents a TS was wrong, but the people who did it(and cintinue to do so)don't think they are doing anything wrong.
ask your lawyer for his help in doing this. Or with the internet there are servisces that will create the corp or LLC for you.

e.bram said:

Logie;
What iswrong with putting an asset in a limited liability entity?
And if you can't make go belly up. GM and Chrysler(and others) did it with government blessing. why can't you. you are entitled to protect yourself for a claim made againt you as a TS owner. suppose the TS didn't have proper insurance or failed to pay the premium(it's like having no car insurance), you are on the hook as an personal owner. why should you have a problem if the TS is mismanaged . But if you own the TS ina personal name , like it or not you are LIABLE if someone is injured or worse at the TS.

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Your suggestion is despicable. This is the problem today, too many people try to justify their poor actions because of some other poor action. A commitment was made and now it should be honored. We should stop looking for the easy way out of our problems. Yes, the OP's mother being scammed by an upfront company was wrong, and I'm sorry that they don't' have a use for the timeshare any longer, but that doesn't make there responsibility any less. Give the timeshare away, donate it, offer to pay the closing cost Somebody will take it.

Logie said:

My other curiosity has to do with the company's who scam people into paying upfront fees to do something that never gets done. How do these fraudulent companies get away with it? Or, better yet, how can they be stopped?

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They try to avoid state regulation by saying, "We're not brokers, just a marketing service," but some state attorneys general have successfully sued a few. They can only be stopped if enuff folks wake up and smell the BS.

Pfrank4127:
Joust how would protect yourself from a claim made against you as a personal owner of a TS as a result of mismanagement? Go personally bankrupt? You think that is a better alternative. Good luck to you. In 2009 you need all the protection you can get , for the reasons you mentioned.

Logie;
Think of it this way.
I am sure your parents were told sometime durring the presentation that if they did not want to use their TS they could rent it and pay the m/f +. You are going to do that but it is common to put a business in a business entity(ie corp or LLC) which you do. If the unit can't be rented for enough to pay the m/fs, the business fails and it's assets belong to the creditors. No guilt there. The sellers don't seem to have guilt selling the TS as an investment increasing in value or generating income. Why should you except that despite your best efforts and the economy(we have heard that bbefore)you couldn't generate enough income to have you real estate business become viable, so it became insolvent.

e.bram said:

Logie;
Think of it this way.
I am sure your parents were told sometime durring the presentation that if they did not want to use their TS they could rent it and pay the m/f +. You are going to do that but it is common to put a business in a business entity(ie corp or LLC) which you do. If the unit can't be rented for enough to pay the m/fs, the business fails and it's assets belong to the creditors. No guilt there. The sellers don't seem to have guilt selling the TS as an investment increasing in value or generating income. Why should you except that despite your best efforts and the economy(we have heard that bbefore)you couldn't generate enough income to have you real estate business become viable, so it became insolvent.

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This is interesting... if you cannot rent your week at the resort and the rental proceeds are less than the maint fees, doesn't the resort share some of the blame for it's mismanagement? I'm wondering...

e.bram said:

Pfrank4127:
Joust how would protect yourself from a claim made against you as a personal owner of a TS as a result of mismanagement? Go personally bankrupt? You think that is a better alternative. Good luck to you. In 2009 you need all the protection you can get , for the reasons you mentioned.

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Not sure what you are referring to but, the OP mentioned nothing regarding this.

pfrank4127 said:

Not sure what you (e.bram) are referring to but, the OP mentioned nothing regarding this.

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No purpose is served in discussing contingent liabilities which do not exist, when the OP is trying to deal with one that actually does. Talking about liabilities, it seems inappropriate to me for a poster to give legal advice w/o a license. One should be a little more cautious in suggesting solutions to problems not posed, even if it serves to advance an agenda.

Logie said:

My elderly mother is trying to sell a Hawaii timeshare that she has never used, but has continued to pay escalating maintenance fees

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Logie said:

15-years ago, my step-father and my mother were vacationing in Hawaii and got sucked into a timeshare sales pitch. Actually, my mother knew it was a bad idea, but the salesman convinced Daddy that the whole family could enjoy this for years to come. (Daddy failed to consider that he was the only one in the family who enjoyed travel... the rest of us are "home bodies" with no interest in going to Hawaii.) Anyhow, Daddy bought into it, Mom went along with it like the good wife, and neither they nor anyone else in the family ever spent a night in it because when they bought it, they bought it sight unseen because it was supposedly "under renovations". I have often wondered if the place really even exists.

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Read the sticky thread at the top of the forum titled "How to Sell Your Timeshare - http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44. I think you'll find it very helpful.

Update your TUG User Profile to add your timeshare resort name
- Log in
- Select "User CP" from the menu bar under the TUG BBS banner.
- From the Control Panel in the left hand column under Settings & Options, select Edit Profile
- Scroll down and in the last section titled Additional Information type in your Resort Name in the text box titled Resorts Owned (optional).
- Select Save Changes

Good Luck and Welcome to TUG

exercising my First Amenment rights does not amount to giving legal adivice which I can do as long as it is free and I don't represent anybody but myself in court or represent myself as a lawyer(which I am not) You can buy all sorts of legal documents on line or in Staples w/o those purveyors being accused of providing legal advice.
Using possible contingent liabilities as a reason for using a limited liability entity is a cover for using them , so the OP can defend the accusation of fraudulent reffered to by other posters.