[2009] White Sands Waikiki Resort Club

Blackwhat · Apr 10, 2009

I doubt that anyone will get their money back unless a law suit is brought.
Here are some e-mail address's FYI.
Craig Lewis ccl@celebrityresorts.com
Jeff Ingram (VP) jeff.ingram@celebrityresorts.com
Reg Marvin (area manager) reg.marvin@celebrityresorts.com

Thought some of you might want to ask some questions.

Blackwhat

rickandjenn · Apr 11, 2009

Thank you for the additional email addresses. I have sent each of them an email with my previous requests for details about the by-laws, taxes, pending resort closure and basic busines practices. I have also starting searching the internet for attorney options in hopes of finding a resource for a class actions suit. Admittedly, this is an area that I have no experience with, so I am unsure of what will come of my efforts.

I did receive my 2nd notice today that stated if my payment was still outstanding 60 days past the original due date, my account would go to collections. I have asked for the name of the company that they will utilize for collections, so that I can start copying them on my requests for information. They should know what they are getting into...

ebat · Apr 11, 2009

I just discovered this forum and have the same issues - 15 year RTU is up Dec 09. We have not paid this assessment and are certain this would be good money down the drain.
Does anyone have an idea how to obtain the entire ownership contact info? There must be a lawyer or two in the group who has as least considered a class action

Blackwhat · Apr 11, 2009

Collection agency

Back in 2003-2004 they used Pinnacle Recovery Inc. of Carlsbad, California. I was just looking over the paper work from the billing of that time and notice they state "Regarding White Sands". They never explicitly state the full name of the debtor. ie: Assoc. Members White Sands Resort Club.
Celebrity may not use the same collection agency this time.
I really am confused as to who we are supposed to owe these funds to. Celebrity or the Assoc. of Members. They seem to be one and the same and controlled by the only two members on the board who happen to be officials of the Celebrity Company. The two members constitute a quorum I guess! It appears that they have taken the liberty to do what they see fit to pad their own pockets under the guise of an LLC and simply not answer to the other three thousand plus members. Nice set up for these kinds of people. Blackwhat

Blackwhat · Apr 11, 2009

Member listing

ebat said:
I just discovered this forum and have the same issues - 15 year RTU is up Dec 09. We have not paid this assessment and are certain this would be good money down the drain.
Does anyone have an idea how to obtain the entire ownership contact info? There must be a lawyer or two in the group who has as least considered a class action

If you are thinking of getting a listing of other members it is difficult. I tried several years ago and was told that in the interest of security (protecting names and Addresses of other s) they would have to do any mailings. The postage would be I would guess close to $1500 and Celebrity would charge for the service. Legally I understand they must provide access to other members but I don't know the legal limitations.
Class action suit against Celebrity as a management company for lack of fiduciary care or whatever else we can come up with would be very reasonable and I would be interested in exploring that from a cost standpoint. Blackwhat

unhappy at Waikiki · Apr 11, 2009

Unhappy about special assessment at White Sands Waikiki

Looking for other owners of White Sands Waikiki who have been assessed an extra $675 after paying their maintenance fee for 2009 for mutual support and action against this illegal special assessment. I was not notified of any special meeting of the board to discuus any special assessment. I also wonder about the composition of the Board whether they have been duly elected owners or are they serving Celebrity Resorts.

Blackwhat · Apr 11, 2009

Billing Notice

rickandjenn said:
Thank you for the additional email addresses. I have sent each of them an email with my previous requests for details about the by-laws, taxes, pending resort closure and basic busines practices. I have also starting searching the internet for attorney options in hopes of finding a resource for a class actions suit. Admittedly, this is an area that I have no experience with, so I am unsure of what will come of my efforts.

I did receive my 2nd notice today that stated if my payment was still outstanding 60 days past the original due date, my account would go to collections. I have asked for the name of the company that they will utilize for collections, so that I can start copying them on my requests for information. They should know what they are getting into...

Have you all ever noticed the letter that accompanies the annual bill? Each one is almost a carbon copy of the prior years letter. Give the people at Celebrity a copy machine and they are in business. That is what we have for a management company I guess. With two people on the Board making the decisions and both related to the interest of the developer rather than the members this association should be holding a meeting to explore the opinionss of all the members. And as is done in special meetings of the board the meeting should be held over a period of days and done over the internet. The first order of business would be to vote for a minumum five person board and the second would be to cancel the special assessment until a qualified management team could be hired to perform management duties. The developer would have to come up with the money to handle this or file for bankruptcy. Celebrity seems to be developer and manager and board member. A bit of a CONFLICT OF INTEREST I would say.
Blackwhat

somerville · Apr 11, 2009

[Thanks for helping - I merged the threads. - DeniseM Moderator]

You will find your fellow owners on this thread:
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91207

lsk · Apr 12, 2009

unhappy at Waikiki said:
Looking for other owners of White Sands Waikiki who have been assessed an extra $675 after paying their maintenance fee for 2009 for mutual support and action against this illegal special assessment. I was not notified of any special meeting of the board to discuus any special assessment. I also wonder about the composition of the Board whether they have been duly elected owners or are they serving Celebrity Resorts.

I have sent a letter to the AG in Hawaii, FL, and a certified letter to the Scottsdale address of Celebrity saying I'm disputing the assessment. I sent a copy of all my letters to the AG's and a copy of the letter that I sent to the billing company of my reasons for not paying. I got a second bill yesterday. I am willing to be a party to a class action suit against Celebrity if we can find an attorney to handle it for a reasonable cost. I don't think we can expect any cash settlements so we will have to pay attorney fees. I was not notified of any special board meetings either. If enough of us don't pay they will have no choice but to file for bankrupcy. If they take us to collections they will still have to file for bankrupcy, they would only get a small percentage of the assessment fee collected. If and when they send us to collections we can send a letter to each of the credit reporting agencies telling them we are in dispute with Celebrity and it will not hurt our rating. We would have to send a copy of the letter to the collection agency and they can't pester you any more! Let me know if anyone finds an attorney!

Blackwhat · Apr 12, 2009

Thoughts on closure date of May3rd

In the event that White Sands closes on May 3, two things become obvious. The lease expense will still have to be paid as will property taxes. Some of the other items listed in the annual projected budget could probably be deleted and others could be greatly reduced in cost.
There should be an accounting by the management company (Celebrity) as to the current balance in the association's bank account.

I doubt that anyone will get their money back unless a law suit is brought.
Here are some e-mail address's FYI.
Craig Lewis ccl@celebrityresorts.com
Jeff Ingram (VP) jeff.ingram@celebrityresorts.com
Reg Marvin (area manager) reg.marvin@celebrityresorts.com

Thought some of you might want to ask some questions.

Blackwhat

qa-Russ · Apr 13, 2009

ARDA - Ethics Officer

After a considerable wait, I have finally heard from ARDA.
The Ethics Officer required additional information to consider the issue before submitting complaint form to me.
I replied this morning.
I will post when I have heard something back from her.
Russ

DK09 · Apr 13, 2009

conflict

qa-Russ said:
After a considerable wait, I have finally heard from ARDA.
The Ethics Officer required additional information to consider the issue before submitting complaint form to me.
I replied this morning.
I will post when I have heard something back from her.
Russ

Did you happen to read the post from Blackwhat on April 7 re craig lewis from celebrity, he also serves on the board for ARDA.

zaphod · Apr 14, 2009

Been following this forum for a few weeks and have written to the suggested contacts to complain - got a reply from the Regulated Ind. Complaints Office today saying 'case processing time can vary based on the amount of complaints received.' Also received updated bill - now $725.79. If I dont pay I may never be able to land in the USA again but even if we all paid up whats to stop them demanding more? I haven't stayed in Hawaii since purchasing whilst en-route to NZ 25 yrs ago (each year Ive had to write more than once asking for my floating week dates to bank with RCI). As yet I havent 2009's and dont know if its worth asking....

JeffW · Apr 14, 2009

Blackwhat said:
In the event that White Sands closes on May 3, two things become obvious...

Semi-related to this, if it's determined White Sands can no longer operate as a timeshare, do they have the right to keep it open for rentals? My guess would be that if they want to assume the risk (and expenses) of keeping it open, they are entitled to any of the rental profits. However in this case, if they still want to pursue collections against t/s owners, it could get very tricky for them to show they need the money, if they are still operationg without it.

Jeff

rachel1998 · Apr 14, 2009

I just received a second bill from Celebrity Resorts. I called and spoke to a nice lady in billing. She told me the resort is closing December 31,2009. I said then why would I pay this money for a SA if the resort is closing anyway. She did not have an answer to that. She said she would make a note on my account that I called. She said it would affect my credit if I did not pay. I said I didn't care that I wasn't going to buy anything anyway.

Blackwhat · Apr 14, 2009

closing date

Did the lady say closing date was 12/31/2009. That would mean it will remain open for the rest of the year. I haven't been able to get thru but guess I will try tomorrow to see if I get the same response. Blackwhat

JeffW · Apr 14, 2009

Wasn't the Dec date always mentioned as the resort closing date, but a separate May 1 (?) date given that owners could no longer reserve time after? I thought was what let to a speculation that they might rent out units for the remainder of the year.

Jeff

Blackwhat · Apr 14, 2009

closeing date reponse #2

I was referring to Rachel1998's message that implies that she asked why would she pay spec. assessment if the place was closing 12/31/09. That is the date it would normally have closed and the special assessment payment would hopefully have provided her with a reservation. If the lady responed with a 12/31 date I would have told her I had heard it was closing early and that I would need a guarantee of some sort before I paid.
Like I have any intention of paying over $1400 plus air fair for a week with that outfit in those facilities. Blackwhat

rachel1998 · Apr 14, 2009

She told me that the resort will close on December 31st. I told her why would I pay anymore money if the resort is closing. She said they need the money to keep the resort open until then. I told her they should have spent their money more carefully. She said she would note on my account that I called. She said I could make payments.

lsk · Apr 15, 2009

zaphod said:
Been following this forum for a few weeks and have written to the suggested contacts to complain - got a reply from the Regulated Ind. Complaints Office today saying 'case processing time can vary based on the amount of complaints received.' Also received updated bill - now $725.79. If I dont pay I may never be able to land in the USA again but even if we all paid up whats to stop them demanding more? I haven't stayed in Hawaii since purchasing whilst en-route to NZ 25 yrs ago (each year Ive had to write more than once asking for my floating week dates to bank with RCI). As yet I havent 2009's and dont know if its worth asking....

There is no way you would not be allowed in the US because of this! The only way would be if you are a convicted felon! I am wondering if we just turn our "week" back in to Celebrity if that would make this assessment go away? It seems a lot of owners at White Sands have done this and we are being asked to pay for it! My week has been used for 2009. If anyone would like to go in on a class action suit, let me know!!

rachel1998 · Apr 15, 2009

My deposited 2009 week with RCI was taken away from me. I already paid the MF for the year now I cannot use my week. That stinks.

Blackwhat · Apr 15, 2009

Dispute recent bill

Your recent bill with interest added should be disputed the same way as the original. In addition tell them to stop adding interest and billing you until an explanation is presented as to how the bill was arrived at. After all it does not take much more than an IDIOT to list five or six numbers and total them up to almost three million dollars and present them in the form of a bill. We are still paying Celebrity for their management of the White Sands? How can we stop it since they took over the board a long time ago and we did not realize what was going on? Black-what

DK09 · Apr 15, 2009

Blackwhat said:
Your recent bill with interest added should be disputed the same way as the original. In addition tell them to stop adding interest and billing you until an explanation is presented as to how the bill was arrived at. After all it does not take much more than an IDIOT to list five or six numbers and total them up to almost three million dollars and present them in the form of a bill. We are still paying Celebrity for their management of the White Sands? How can we stop it since they took over the board a long time ago and we did not realize what was going on? Black-what

I agree with sending in another dispute letter.....return receipt. (send a copy to the AG in Hawaii and the RICO in HAwaii-the more complaints they get the more likely they are to take it seriously) My guess is that most of us have time to use yet at this resort, whether it be a lost week with RCI or just not able to use because the resort is no longer taking reservations -----also known as closing. That is to our advantage as they are breaking the contract by not allowing us use of the time as stated in the assurance certificate (seven consecutive nights, yearly, until 12-31-2009). I say if they won't allow us our use of time that they refund the maintenance fee for any week that they will no longer honor. Still most important to work on the financial aspect as they are not willing to provide anyone with any information and things found out so far don't add up (property taxes). Is there anyway to find out how much the actual utilities are at the resort???

leehamilton16 · Apr 16, 2009

Assessments and Celebrity Steamboat Springs

I'm the co-plaintiff, with my husband, in a lawsuit against 10 Celebrity defendants that's in federal district court in Denver. I've been looking at discussion about the special assessments at Waikiki. We refused to pay our special assessment a few years ago, mostly because there was no accounting of how prior assessments had been spent, what exactly would be done with the special assessment and how much money was needed. After many requests to the developers/managers/board that went unanswered we stopped paying the regular assessments, and in turn, of course, lost access to our unit. We started logging calls from Celebrity's collection agency (Concord) and it was well over 80 calls. They've finally stopped bothering us as they have bigger fish to fry with us now.

Credit reports show that we' are behind on a recurring loan payment on property. Of course this is inaccurate and misleading---makes it sound as if we've stopped making payments on a home loan. I tried talking to the credit agency and sending in an explanation in their online system. We were not able to get the credit reporting agency to change it. I believe the characterization of these unpaid assessments is the credit agency's limited categories, not really the way it was reported.

Lee
leehamilton16@gmail.com

EileenSRN · Apr 18, 2009

Thank God I don't have a unit at White Sands, but I do have 2 other Celebrity units at Brigantine and Orlando. I was trying to see if I could find property transfer records to get other owners names (I know, RTU doesn't have a deed conveyed-but I was just fishing). What I came across was this website. Search under White Sands, White Sands Waikki Resort Club and Celebrity Resorts. I used a start date of 06/01/1980. You might want to go back further. Interesting results; unfortunately it looks like it'll cost a few bucks to get copies of the transactions. When I stayed there in 2000, it was Ramada Vacation Club. This might give you other trails to follow. Good luck with you're fight!
Eileen

http://bocweb.dlnrbc.hawaii.gov/boc/