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Ka'anapali Beach Club Owner's Problem

T_R_Oglodyte

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If when we bought Sunterra owned the Embassy, why didn't they push Sunterra at that time?

All of the Embassy resorts were separate from the Sunterra operation. I don't know why they didn't terminate the Embassy relationship and fold those resorts into Club Sunterra soon after the notion of building an Embassy timeshare chain ended.

I suspect, though, that part of the reason was that the Embassy resorts were viewed as significantly higher quality than the Sunterra resorts; by putting them in with Sunterra they would be less valuable.

Also I think that Sunterra was hoping they could sell the Embassy resorts to someone else; that would be easier if the resorts weren't part of Club Sunterra. They didn't become part of Sunterra until after Hilton ended negotiations to buy Ka'anapali and Po'ipu.

With re
 

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Is This View Worth Fighting For?

When Walt purchased, Deluxe Ocean View was intended as Ocean Front and owners were charged a premium. Now, they've expanded that catagory to include views that are not ocean front.

If you paid $2,000 more for an ocean front unit, wouldn't you be ticked to learn that you were now lumped into a catagory that would put you in an ocean side unit? If Walt wanted ocean side, he could have saved his money and paid for ocean side. But that's not what he wanted. He wanted ocean front and he paid a premium for ocean front.

What's wrong is Walt paid for one view but is now given a view that he could have had for less money. If you pay for the Lincoln but get a Ford Focus instead, you'd be ticked too.

Yes, we paid more for an Deluxe Ocean Front Unit. Are all Deluxe Ocean Views equal?

Walt

Do you really think that this View.........

MauiHawaiiJan2009179.jpg


And these Views are all Deluxe Ocean Views

MauiHawaiiJan2009182.jpg


MauiHawaiiJan2009183.jpg
 

readyalready

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Yes, we paid more for an Deluxe Ocean Front Unit. Are all Deluxe Ocean Views equal?

Walt

[]

There is no comparison between the ocean views and the deluxe (ocean front) views, I completely agree with you. Besides the premium paid for the view you are not getting I think there is an intangible view difference, when you have 180 degree views out the window and balcony it does make a vacation better, it really does...

Good luck, I hope you get some satisfaction.
 

dougp26364

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Yes, we paid more for an Deluxe Ocean Front Unit. Are all Deluxe Ocean Views equal?

Walt

Do you really think that this View.........

MauiHawaiiJan2009179.jpg


And these Views are all Deluxe Ocean Views

MauiHawaiiJan2009182.jpg


MauiHawaiiJan2009183.jpg


My point exactly. I knew that at Ocean Pointe, where we own ocean front, there is a huge difference in the view between Ocean front and ocean view. It was enough that we paid the additional money to always be assured of an ocean front unit. The vista's just looking out the windows in the morning are worth the price paid to us and, having coffee on the balcony while getting a full panoramic view of the ocean is well worth the price and not having to look across at another building or parking lot with a bit of the ocean viewable off the the side.

I sincerely hope that Embassy put it in writing very clearly what view you were to have and that you can prove this to DRI, thus eliminating further stress for your vacations at this resort.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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My point exactly. I knew that at Ocean Pointe, where we own ocean front, there is a huge difference in the view between Ocean front and ocean view. It was enough that we paid the additional money to always be assured of an ocean front unit. The vista's just looking out the windows in the morning are worth the price paid to us and, having coffee on the balcony while getting a full panoramic view of the ocean is well worth the price and not having to look across at another building or parking lot with a bit of the ocean viewable off the the side.

I sincerely hope that Embassy put it in writing very clearly what view you were to have and that you can prove this to DRI, thus eliminating further stress for your vacations at this resort.

The differences in your photos are essentially the same as the differences at Po'ipu betweeen ocean view and ocean front.
 

JIMinNC

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Walt,

I haven't been active on TUG for at least a couple of years, but occasionally check the board and I saw this thread and thought I could add some clarification.

We purchased at Kaanapali in 1999, shortly after they began sales in 1998. At that time the view classifications were Scenic (1A), Ocean View (1B), Deluxe Ocean View (1C), and Two-Bedroom (2). I do not think the Kaanapali property has ever had a category called "Ocean Front."

According to our Disclosure Statement, back then, the Timeshare Program only included 27 units out of the 413 total units at the resort. The remainder were in the Embassy hotel program. According to the Disclosure, the Developer has the right to add units to the Timeshare Program provided the units added to a particular category "shall have a similar profile in terms of number of bedrooms." Note that there is no restriction on view, only in number of bedrooms, so the Developer has considerable latitude in designating what view category a newly-added unit should fit into. When you purchased, I'm sure additional units had been added into the program over the 27 in 1999, but whatever that number was, those were the only units that were classified into a particular category.

In looking at the units designated as 1C (Deluxe Ocean View) in my Disclosure, in those early days, all of them were in locations that most would call "ocean front," but they were classifed as Deluxe Ocean View. Over time, it would appear as more and more units were transferred into the Timeshare Program, units that had views somewhat inferior to the original Deluxe Ocean View units were classified as Deluxe Ocean View because their views were deemed to be sufficiently superior to those designated simply as Ocean View.

I don't think they have actually changed classifications of individual units - I think that would be prohibited by the deed - but the range of views that are considered as Deluxe Ocean View has just expanded. As a DOV owner, they have the right to place you in any unit which has a 1C classification - a classification that now includes a wider variety of views than it originally did.

We own a two-bedroom and since there is no view classification for those units, they can place us in any category 2 unit. Some of the 2BR units have better views and larger lanais, so we always request specific units when we make our reservation. We have alway received our first or second choice. So when you reserve, you can request specific Deluxe Ocean View units that have the specific views you prefer, and I would think they will try to accomodate as best as they can.

Also, Steve is correct in his explanation of resort ownership history. The resort was orginally developed by West Maui Resort Partners, LP, a limited partnership in which Sunterra was the Managing General Partner. They managed the resort through their subsidiary, Marc Hotels and Resorts, Inc. The Embassy name was franchised and was part of an agreement Sunterra had with Promus Corporation (owner of Embassy) to develop a chain of timeshares under the Embassy name (this is discussed in Paragraph 21 of my Disclosure Statement) that would be separate from Sunterra's own brand. After Hilton bought-out Promus, Hilton orginally considered acquiring some of the Embassy timeshares to fold into HGVC, but during the travel downturn after 9-11, the deal fell through. Later, in 2002 or 2003, Sunterra bought out Maui Resort Partners and folded the Kaanapali and Poipu properties into Club Sunterra, until Sunerra was acquired by Diamond.

I hope this helps.

Jim
 

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Thanks Jim For The Information

Walt,

I haven't been active on TUG for at least a couple of years, but occasionally check the board and I saw this thread and thought I could add some clarification.

We purchased at Kaanapali in 1999, shortly after they began sales in 1998. At that time the view classifications were Scenic (1A), Ocean View (1B), Deluxe Ocean View (1C), and Two-Bedroom (2). I do not think the Kaanapali property has ever had a category called "Ocean Front."

According to our Disclosure Statement, back then, the Timeshare Program only included 27 units out of the 413 total units at the resort. The remainder were in the Embassy hotel program. According to the Disclosure, the Developer has the right to add units to the Timeshare Program provided the units added to a particular category "shall have a similar profile in terms of number of bedrooms." Note that there is no restriction on view, only in number of bedrooms, so the Developer has considerable latitude in designating what view category a newly-added unit should fit into. When you purchased, I'm sure additional units had been added into the program over the 27 in 1999, but whatever that number was, those were the only units that were classified into a particular category.

In looking at the units designated as 1C (Deluxe Ocean View) in my Disclosure, in those early days, all of them were in locations that most would call "ocean front," but they were classifed as Deluxe Ocean View. Over time, it would appear as more and more units were transferred into the Timeshare Program, units that had views somewhat inferior to the original Deluxe Ocean View units were classified as Deluxe Ocean View because their views were deemed to be sufficiently superior to those designated simply as Ocean View.

I don't think they have actually changed classifications of individual units - I think that would be prohibited by the deed - but the range of views that are considered as Deluxe Ocean View has just expanded. As a DOV owner, they have the right to place you in any unit which has a 1C classification - a classification that now includes a wider variety of views than it originally did.

We own a two-bedroom and since there is no view classification for those units, they can place us in any category 2 unit. Some of the 2BR units have better views and larger lanais, so we always request specific units when we make our reservation. We have alway received our first or second choice. So when you reserve, you can request specific Deluxe Ocean View units that have the specific views you prefer, and I would think they will try to accomodate as best as they can.

Also, Steve is correct in his explanation of resort ownership history. The resort was orginally developed by West Maui Resort Partners, LP, a limited partnership in which Sunterra was the Managing General Partner. They managed the resort through their subsidiary, Marc Hotels and Resorts, Inc. The Embassy name was franchised and was part of an agreement Sunterra had with Promus Corporation (owner of Embassy) to develop a chain of timeshares under the Embassy name (this is discussed in Paragraph 21 of my Disclosure Statement) that would be separate from Sunterra's own brand. After Hilton bought-out Promus, Hilton orginally considered acquiring some of the Embassy timeshares to fold into HGVC, but during the travel downturn after 9-11, the deal fell through. Later, in 2002 or 2003, Sunterra bought out Maui Resort Partners and folded the Kaanapali and Poipu properties into Club Sunterra, until Sunerra was acquired by Diamond.

I hope this helps.

Jim

It does help.

Am I right in saying I bought a Deluxe Ocean Front Unit? Yes, because that is what I was sold and that is what I bought.

Was there a mistaken on my part in understanding what I bought? No.

I told the saleslady that I would only buy a Deluxe Ocean Front. And that is what she called it. My wife and I both heard her say, "Whenever you come back to the Embassy, you will always have a Deluxe Ocean Front Unit."

Well, I guess you can say since the Embassy is now the KBC, then, what she say is true. I have always had a Deluxe Ocean Front Unit when it was called the Embassy.

Do I think I was taken? Yes, I was taken. As well as many other buyers at that time.

The first thing I will do when I get home is get my Embassy Book out and see if they have a defination for Ohana View. I will also see what unit was assigned to my deed. Since they knew that they were lying about the Deluxe Ocean Front unit, I would be willing to bet that have the contract written as you stated.

I think I may have the saleslady's notes with the words Ocean Front written on them. For whatever, that is worth.

I will be talking to DRI next week. It will be interesting how they handle my problem.

I can say that they did move me into an Deluxe Ocean Front Unit for this vacation. So, they did seem to want to work with me.

Walt :)
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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I think I may have the saleslady's notes with the words Ocean Front written on them. For whatever, that is worth.

I will be talking to DRI next week. It will be interesting how they handle my problem.

think those notes are likely worth quite a bit. It strengthens your case. And even though you aren't dealing with Sunterra anymore, cleaning up Sunterra messes such as this does seem to be something to which DRI is paying attention. They put a lot of effort - and money - into fixing up the European mess.
 

Walt

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Does Anyone Have The Update Point Values For The KBC?

I would like to have the points needed from the KBC Club membership to get into each 1 Bedroom View for 1 week.

Walt :)
 

JIMinNC

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It does help.

I think I may have the saleslady's notes with the words Ocean Front written on them. For whatever, that is worth.

I will be talking to DRI next week. It will be interesting how they handle my problem.

I can say that they did move me into an Deluxe Ocean Front Unit for this vacation. So, they did seem to want to work with me.

Walt :)

I agree it sounds like the saleslady led you astray in her use of "Ocean Front" - although since all "Deluxe Ocean View" units were, in fact, ocean front at the time of your purchase, she was probably making a true statement based on the facts in place at that time. In 2001, she may not have known that in two, three, or four years, as additional units were transferred from the hotel to the Timeshare Program, that management would make the decision to classify non-ocean front units as Deluxe Ocean View.

But I do agree with Steve that if you can find her notes, it can only help your case in the future when you make your reservation. As I said above, KBC does allow owners to request specific units, so just pick a bunch of ocean front units that you like and include those in your reservation request as a special request. If you can produce the notes, they might be able to annotate your account in some way to be sure to always place you in an ocean front room if at all possible.


Jim
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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As I said above, KBC does allow owners to request specific units, so just pick a bunch of ocean front units that you like and include those in your reservation request as a special request. If you can produce the notes, they might be able to annotate your account in some way to be sure to always place you in an ocean front room if at all possible.

You can do better than that. Because the system is set up for one week stays, each room has a specific day of the week that is check-in for that unit. If you are arriving on a Saturday, it doesn't do you any good to request rooms that are Friday or Sunday check-in.

The corollary is that on any given day, the available pool of units that Walt might want is smaller than the total number of units he is interested in. Then he also needs to be sure that he isn't requesting a room that has already been assigned to someone else.

So what I do is I contact the resort and ask what rooms in my desired view category are available on the days that are my possible check-in dates. After I find the combination of room and check-in date that works for me, I make the reservation and submit my request.
 
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Walt

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Thank Again Jim

I will be talking to Management next week. I will give you more details after the meeting.


Walt :)

I agree it sounds like the saleslady led you astray in her use of "Ocean Front" - although since all "Deluxe Ocean View" units were, in fact, ocean front at the time of your purchase, she was probably making a true statement based on the facts in place at that time. In 2001, she may not have known that in two, three, or four years, as additional units were transferred from the hotel to the Timeshare Program, that management would make the decision to classify non-ocean front units as Deluxe Ocean View.

But I do agree with Steve that if you can find her notes, it can only help your case in the future when you make your reservation. As I said above, KBC does allow owners to request specific units, so just pick a bunch of ocean front units that you like and include those in your reservation request as a special request. If you can produce the notes, they might be able to annotate your account in some way to be sure to always place you in an ocean front room if at all possible.


Jim
 

Walt

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Why Was I Given the North Side of KBC?

From DRI's Website:

Hawaii - Maui

Ka’anapali Beach Club 104 Ka’anapali Shores Place | Maui, Hawaii 96761 | 808.661.2000
Accommodation Max/Private Occupancy Low Season Mid Season High Season Peak Season
1 Bedroom - Scenic View 4*/2 - - 6,500 9,000
1 Bedroom - Ocean View 4*/2 - - 8,500 11,500
1 Bedroom - Deluxe Ocean View 4*/2 - - 11,500 16,000
2 Bedroom 6/4 - - 15,500 21,000
2 Bedroom - Presidential Suite 6/4 - - 44,000 54,500
2009 Weeks - - 1-14 17-26, 28-47, 49-50 15-16, 27, 48, 51-52
2010 Weeks - - 1-13, 16-26, 28-47, 49-50 14-15, 27, 48, 51-53

Nightly midweek rates are 10% of week rate. Check-in day for weekly occupancy: Friday / Saturday / Sunday. Deeded owners any day. *Five if one occupant is 16 years or younger.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++

First of all I am a Deluxe Ocean View (Front) owner of a deeded week. I have an Every Other Year (Odd Years) ownership. When I get home I will check to see what Unit shows on the deed.

My account shows this on the DRI overview page.

Kaanapali Beach Club

Week: #51

Unit: 1 BD Dlx Ocean

Season: Red

Points: 8,000

Status: Active

If what I see is correct, the week of Jan 10 to Jan 17, 2009 is High Season.

It would appear that DRI assigned me 8000 points per year or 16000 points total for Every Odd Year.

From the Grid it appears that I would need 11,500 points for the week Jan. 10 to Jan. 17, 2009, if I was a Points owner. So I would assume that I have more than enough credit or points to get a Deluxe Ocean View Unit.

I made the reservation 1 full year before Jan 10, 2009.

I got to the resort by 11:00 am and check in but they did not give me the Unit number until 4:00 pm when the Unit was ready. In the past Units were given out so that the early arrival got the best units. Yet, at 4:00 pm KBC was going to give me a North Side Unit (I think it was #614).

By DRI 70% Ocean View = Deluxe Ocean View definition, I don't think these North Side Units should not be considered Deluxe Ocean View since I don't think the view is 70% Ocean view. But let us just say the Pool side Units (they also are considered Deluxe Ocean View by DRI) are far better than the North Side.

My question is why was I given the worse (North Side Unit) when I arrived?

Because I protested I got Unit #406 (Pool Side) and then #512 (Ocean Front) for the rest of my stay of 2 weeks.

So DRI made me happy for this trip. But what will happen on our next trip in 2011?

I also heard that DRI doesn't want Week Owners at KBC. So did they put me in a bad unit in order to sell the Club and pay another $19,000 discounted from $33,000 for 7000 points?

Walt :confused:
 

Walt

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Thank Steve

You can do better than that. Because the system is set up for one week stays, each room has a specific day of the week that is check-in for that unit. If you are arriving on a Friday, it doesn't do you any good to request rooms that are Friday or Sunday check-in.

The corollary is that on any given day, the available pool of units that Walt might want is smaller than the total number of units he is interested in. Then he also needs to be sure that he isn't requesting a room that has already been assigned to someone else.

So what I do is I contact the resort and ask what rooms in my desired view category are available on the days that are my possible check-in dates. After I find the combination of room and check-in date that works for me, I make the reservation and submit my request.

This is some information I would really use in the future.

Walt :)
 

Walt

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Wow!!!!!!!!!

I would first ask for the general manager to be contacted immediately to discuss the problem. There is no reason that your problem can not be escalated on a weekend. If you seem to get the run around, I would email Simon Crawford-Welch, as he just sent an announcement to the DRI yahoo group asking that we contact him before assuming that you are getting ripped off ("my words"). His address is simon.crawford-welch@diamondresorts.com

From my knowledge of the resort, you are guaranteed that view but in a roving number of units that have that view. The guy who really knows the answer is Dave Weiss, the Broker at the inception, but he is no longer with them.


I send an email to Simon Crawford-Welch on Sat, 17 Jan 2009 11:38 am. Maui time.

I received an email on Sat, 17 Jan 2009 11:45 am from Simon Crawford-Welch. It was not a form letter. It was addressed to me by name.

He wrote, "You have my commitment that we will respond to your concerns in a timely fashion.

Please allow us a day or two to address the issues you raise."

About 12:05 pm on Sat. 17,2009, on my way to Mama's Fish House, I received a cell phone call from DRI from London, England.

I don't know how this will turn out, but they seem to want to work with me.

Walt :)
 
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Anything new Walt??
 

Walt

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We Just Got Back From Maui Today at 2:30 pm Central time

Anything new Walt??

We had a 10:00 pm flight Friday and got home at 2:30 pm Saturday. So I need some time to really look at my Embassy Papers

I am still working on it and it may take 2 years before I will know If I made any headway.

It appears that the Reservation Manager will try to get me into a Deluxe Ocean Front Unit in the future. But that is a promise and I would rather have a paper which states I own an ocean front Unit.

My deed shows I own Unit #611 on week 51. Unit #611 is an Ocean Front Unit. I also have the saleslady's note where she wrote Ocean Front. And the words "Ocean Front" shows up in regard to the 2 bedrooms.

I Know there are others that may have been scammed by Subterra or whoever ay KBC.

If we could get other week's owners of KBC to post that they bought Ocean Front and paid extra for the Ocean front at KBC that would help. The State of Hawaii would have to at least listen to several owner of KBC with the same
complaint.

And perhaps DRI would be forced honor our deeds and contracts.

But tomorrow I will have to look at my Embassy Papers to see if there is any help there.

Walt
 

Walt

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After Reading The Disclosure

The Disclosure is 21 pages long with over another 25 pages of exhibit pages.

As I wrote we were told and sold an Deluxe Ocean Front (View) Unit. I was willing to pay more for a Deluxe Ocean Front Unit.

It appears others were also told and sold a Deluxe Ocean Front Unit. Units on each floor....x08, x09, x10, x11, x12 are the true Deluxe Ocean Front Units.

It appears that DRI is saying there was never a Deluxe Ocean Front View. That most Pool Side Units and North Side Units on the Ohana Tower are now considered Deluxe Ocean Views.

By the pictures I posted a reasonable person can see that Pool Side Units and North Side are not LIKE views of a Ocean Front Unit.

At the time I bought the price break down according to Exhibit 4 was:

Type 1A.....Scenic View......Every Year...$18,890...Odd/Even Years...$12,900

Type 1B.....Ocean View.....Every Year....$21,890...Odd/Even Years...$15,900

Type 1C....Deluxe Ocean View...Every Year...$25,890...Odd/Even Years... $17,900.

There are some interesting points in the Disclosure, Exhibit 1.

Type 1A.......Scenic View........One Bedroom with sleeping accommodations for up to four persons and a view of the countryside.

Type 1B.......Ocean View.........One Bedroom with sleeping accomodations for up to four persons and a partial ocean View.

Type 1C.......Deluxe Ocean View.....One Bedroom with sleeping accomodations for up to four persons and a Deluxe Ocean View.

Since an Ocean View is a partial view of the Ocean, would a reasonable person think that a Deluxe Ocean View would mean an Ocean Front unit with a total ocean view?

Would a reasonable person, that has a deed that states he owns Unit #611 which is an Ocean Front Unit and a Type 1C unit, also think he owns an Ocean Front Unit?

Walt
 

Werner

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Walt, In 2006 there was a Deluxe Ocean Front in Club Sunterra because we traded into one from Poipu. Unfortunately, we don't have any official documentation, the original confirmation is gone, only Dollie's review which says DOF in the TUG reviews. I just checked the 2004-5, 2005-6, 2007-8 SunOptions directories and they do NOT show any DOF's, ever. At the time we made the reservation I did not notice that the printed directory view categories did not agree with the computer reservations categories.

Thinking about it, the trading company can define view categories to be anything they want and trade them for any number of points they want since the units they are trading are not being used by their owners. However, when you, as a non-club member/owner, want to use your deeded category, the reservationist has to abide by those restrictions because the club definitions are not relevant.

Even for those of us who are deeded owners AND in the Club, the deeded categories have to take precedence. I don't agree with those who say that the club can legally redefine point values in a way which would prevent a deeded owner/club member from using a unit in their deeded category and within their deeded seasonal window. Those room size, view, and seasonal categories should be visible on the computer, to you and to the reservationist, mine are.

I think Sunterra redefined the views for club trading purposes, which is probably fully legal, and may not even be immoral, and somehow your ownership has been swallowed up into the club, which should be both illegal and immoral.

In a prior post you indicated that you were listed somewhere as being in the DRI club with points even though you didn't join and presumably don't pay dues. That may, in the end, be the issue, somehow you are listed as a club member but they failed to list your unit category. Maybe the "fix" for Sunterra's view category problem was to give you "free" membership in Sunterra while ignoring the deeded restrictions.
 

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Even for those of us who are deeded owners AND in the Club, the deeded categories have to take precedence. I don't agree with those who say that the club can legally redefine point values in a way which would prevent a deeded owner/club member from using a unit in their deeded category and within their deeded seasonal window. Those room size, view, and seasonal categories should be visible on the computer, to you and to the reservationist, mine are.

Maybe we're splitting hairs here, Werner, but I disagree.

When you attach a deeded week to the Club, you sign a piece of paper that says you assign all of the reservation rights associated with your deed to the club. How can you say you as a deeded owner have any preference to anything when you signed a piece of paper relinquishing any preferences you might have had? Whatever preferences you had with that deed are now the Club's.

Yes, you do get a points allocation that is corresponds with the value for the units associated with your deed. But after attaching the deed to the club the only thing the Club see is the number of points you own and the Home Resort Advantage associated with those rights.

But you no longer have any any inherent right to any view category. The Club doesn't care squat about what view category is on your deed. Even though your deed might be for an ocean front unit you have no more right to a 15,500 point ocean front unit than does the Club member who owns a partial ocean view unit and who has 15,500 points in their account because they rolled over points from a previous year.

Once you attach that week to the Club the resort no longer has any obligation to ensure inventory is available for your use to correspond with your week ownership. The Club also does not give you any preferences for your view category. Inside the Club it's first come, first served for whatever inventory is available. The fact that your deed might be for ocean front doesn't result in your reservations being processed ahead of anybody else There is no inventory set aside for use only for owners of ocean front property.

I just don't see how you say you have some kind of preference inside the Club for a unit associated with your deeded view category when anyone who has the required number of points has just as much right to that view category as you do.
 
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Walt

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Walt, In 2006 there was a Deluxe Ocean Front in Club Sunterra because we traded into one from Poipu. Unfortunately, we don't have any official documentation, the original confirmation is gone, only Dollie's review which says DOF in the TUG reviews. I just checked the 2004-5, 2005-6, 2007-8 SunOptions directories and they do NOT show any DOF's, ever. At the time we made the reservation I did not notice that the printed directory view categories did not agree with the computer reservations categories.

Thinking about it, the trading company can define view categories to be anything they want and trade them for any number of points they want since the units they are trading are not being used by their owners. However, when you, as a non-club member/owner, want to use your deeded category, the reservationist has to abide by those restrictions because the club definitions are not relevant.

Even for those of us who are deeded owners AND in the Club, the deeded categories have to take precedence. I don't agree with those who say that the club can legally redefine point values in a way which would prevent a deeded owner/club member from using a unit in their deeded category and within their deeded seasonal window. Those room size, view, and seasonal categories should be visible on the computer, to you and to the reservationist, mine are.

I think Sunterra redefined the views for club trading purposes, which is probably fully legal, and may not even be immoral, and somehow your ownership has been swallowed up into the club, which should be both illegal and immoral.

In a prior post you indicated that you were listed somewhere as being in the DRI club with points even though you didn't join and presumably don't pay dues. That may, in the end, be the issue, somehow you are listed as a club member but they failed to list your unit category. Maybe the "fix" for Sunterra's view category problem was to give you "free" membership in Sunterra while ignoring the deeded restrictions.
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On DRI web site I do have 8000 points assigned to my account for a total of 16000 points to be used in the ODD Years.

However, I am not a DRI Club member. So why would they assign points to me?

I also found out from the Reservation Manager that she only handles the Week's reservation. So it appears that the Club may be blocking out units and the Week's Owners may be getting the leftovers.


Walt
 
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Walt

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This doesn't seem true for weeks owners

Maybe we're splitting hairs here, Werner, but I disagree.

When you attach a deeded week to the Club, you sign a piece of paper that says you assign all of the reservation rights associated with your deed to the club. How can you say you as a deeded owner have any preference to anything when you signed a piece of paper relinquishing any preferences you might have had? Whatever preferences you had with that deed are now the Club's.

Yes, you do get a points allocation that is corresponds with the value for the units associated with your deed. But after attaching the deed to the club the only thing the Club see is the number of points you own and the Home Resort Advantage associated with those rights.

But you no longer have any any inherent right to any view category. The Club doesn't care squat about what view category is on your deed. Even though your deed might be for an ocean front unit you have no more right to a 15,500 point ocean front unit than does the Club member who owns a partial ocean view unit and who has 15,500 points in their account because they rolled over points from a previous year.

Once you attach that week to the Club the resort no longer has any obligation to ensure inventory is available for your use to correspond with your week ownership. The Club also does not give you any preferences for your view category. Inside the Club it's first come, first served for whatever inventory is available. The fact that your deed might be for ocean front doesn't result in your reservations being processed ahead of anybody else There is no inventory set aside for use only for owners of ocean front property.

I just don't see how you say you have some kind of preference inside the Club for a unit associated with your deeded view category when anyone who has the required number of points has just as much right to that view category as you do.


Inside the Club it's first come, first served for whatever inventory is available

When I asked why I didn't get a Ocean Front Unit since I made the reservation 1 full year before check in, the Reservation Manager said it really wasn't the reason I was going to be placed in a North Side Unit. That first come was not a factor for getting an ocean Front Unit in the weeks program.

Walt
 

Werner

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Steve, I agree with everything you said, I think :confused: . The "if available" is always assumed when talking about floating weeks/floating units reservations and I'm not claiming priorty over other club members. Even my deed says floating unit (within the view category)/ floating week so I certainly know that I don't have priority claim on any unit or week. The only issue I'm concerned about is the notion that the Club could alter its point scheme, or in Walt's case, its unit categories, and charge me more points for the unit in my deed than it was worth when I joined the club. That's where we break lock.

Assuming that I haven't spent the points elsewhere and that the unit type is available, I expect to be able to spend Christmas week in my home resort for my annual points allotment, which is equal to the points value that unit type had when I joined and which is less then the "Peak Season" points shown in the brochure. I assume that's why my on-line membership info lists my unit type and that it is a red week, which exactly what it says in the deed. Happily I am not interested in Peak Season's so I won't be testing this out but I am more concerned about point inflation and unit redefinition.

The Club doesn't care squat about what view category is on your deed.

It cares enough to show the important data in the membership summary.

Are you suggesting that DRI could decide to raise the point value for a unit category and a deeded owner would have to buy more points to get into the same unit type (assuming availability, etc)? This deeded owner would just quit the club and I assume every other owner would do the same.

PS, I am becoming more and more convinced that there are almost as many membership categories in DRI as there are members. Besides variations in deed types, trusts, etc., each of us has a different method of buying our units, joining the club, negotiating special considerations. The most important piece of paper you get when you make a reservation is the printed confirmation. If it doesn't say what you think is should you have to get on the phone. We make home resort reservations by phone (mainly because a few years ago the web site didn't accept reservations more than 10 months out) and confusions are resolved immediately (there haven't been many).
 
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Walt

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So If I Ask For My Deeded Week

According to my deed at KBC I own a Deluxe Ocean View Unit #611 week 51. I own a float week. Since this Unit could not be a fixed week for anyone else, what would happen if I asked for Unit #611 for week 51 as my owner's week to use exactly one year before the day I'm able to?

Walt :)
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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I also found out from the Reservation Manager that she only handles the Week's reservation. So it appears that the Club may be blocking out units and the Week's Owners may be getting the leftovers.


Walt

I have discussed how the reservation system works with management personnel in Hawai'i and I have posted that information in detail in other posts regarding DRI and Poi'ipu. I won't repeat that; do a search if you want to pull it up.

I will repeat some in brief.

You are absolutely correct that the Reservation Manager at the resort only handles weeks requests. That's because the entire inventory system is set up in weeks, and as far as the resort is concerned, the DRI Club is simply a multiple weeks owner just like any other person who owns multiple weeks. The Club then has a right to reserve inventory that corresponds with whatever ownerships have been assigned to the Club.

The only tweak that occurs specifically with the DRI Club is that the inventory rights that the Club has are straightlined across the year. For example, if the Club has rights to 50% of the ocean front inventory, then on each check in day 50% of the ocean front units available on that check-in day are assigned to the Club. The remaining 50% of ocean front units on that check-in day then remain available to deeded weeks owners.

The inventory that goes to the Club is then what shows up available to Club members at the DRI site.

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Walt - if your deed is not attached to the Club you should be making your reservations directly with the Reservations Manager at the resort. The inventory that would be available to you would then be the inventory that has been reserved for deeded weeks owners.

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An added comment on room reservations. All room reservations are made by the resort manager at the resort on a first come, first served basis. It doesn't make any difference if the reservation is from a Club member or a deeded weeks owner.

Remember that as far as the resort is concerned the Club is like any other owner of multiple weeks. The reservations system simply sees that a week in a specific view category has been reserved by the Club. When the Club assigns that week to a member, the Club member can then contact the resort (after the first day that the resort accepts room reservation requests) to make a room request, and resort treats that the same as a request from a deeded weeks owner who has a reservation for that same check-in day.

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The whole process is complicated enough as it is, without trying to graft into it some kind of special considerations for DRI.

It's seldom wise to ascribe to cunning that which can be easily explained by incompetence.
 
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