An eBay seller just gave me a fake estoppel

I recently bid on an eBay auction for a red week in Branson. I asked for the estoppel, and it said the week was red. But when I called the resort and gave them the contract number from the estoppel, they said: 1) the week was way off-season (floats weeks 1-10), not red at all, and 2) the "estoppel" I had was not from them. The signature on the form did not belong to any employee from the resort, and the form should have been on resort letterhead, which it was not.

Apparently, the "estoppel" was just a form the eBay seller made up, signed by someone who worked for him. I don't know if the seller deliberately misstated the season, or if that was a mistake.

I'd rather not say who the seller was, because, um, he seems to have a genuine red week at the resort (in addition to the off-season week he tried to sell me) and I plan to buy it -- assuming the information the seller gives me matches what the resort says.

If I'm not willing to say who the seller is, then why am I posting this? To encourage Tuggers to check with the resort rather than relying on the estoppel the seller provides, which may or may not be genuine.

Now, admittedly, checking with the resort isn't always easy. I recently looked into buying at a different timeshare, and the resort wouldn't give me any information because I didn't have the owner's name. (The owner's name had been blacked out on the estoppel.) However, even if the resort won't give any information, there are still ways a buyer can check out some of the data. You could post here on TUG and ask what the estoppel from that resort should look like, and whose signature (if anyone's) should be on it. Another Tugger may have recently purchased at that resort, and be willing to email you a copy of an estoppel so you can see what one looks lie.

The bottom line is that when buying a timeshare off eBay, remember -- buyer beware!

wow, if the guy made up his own estoppel letter...Id certainly want to know his ebay seller id.

thats about as low as it gets

I have also received a fake estoppel from an eBay seller. It was in 2011; the seller was "Great Timeshare Bargains". I was buying a Starwood unit and was familiar with Starwood's "Resale Information Sheet"; what GTB sent me did not look like the Starwood form. It came as an email attachment with the transmittal --
-- which did not seem true, based on the form. I forwarded the form to Starwood and was informed that it was not a copy of the form issued by SVO Management. I backed out of the deal.

Caveat emptor.

vacationtime1 said:

I have also received a fake estoppel from an eBay seller. It was in 2011; the seller was "Great Timeshare Bargains". I was buying a Starwood unit and was familiar with Starwood's "Resale Information Sheet"; what GTB sent me did not look like the Starwood form. It came as an email attachment with the transmittal --

Robert here is the estoppel that the resort has done for us.​

-- which did not seem true, based on the form. I forwarded the form to Starwood and was informed that it was not a copy of the form issued by SVO Management. I backed out of the deal.

Caveat emptor.

Click to expand...

I've had the same experience with several ebay sellers - misrepresentation of a form as the official estoppel form from Wyndham, Marriott etc.

Yeah- you have to questions everything. Mine- not acquired on EBAY- had the wrong maintenance fee listed. I knew it sounded too low for a two bedroom, so I certainly questioned it and I was correct- it was a maintenance fee for a 1 bedroom. Everything must be questioned.

I would definitely not be hoping to buy a correct week from him. I'd be running.

I would not continue to have anything to do with this seller if he provided a fake document to me. Doing so is asking for trouble. I'd report it to Ebay and make sure to leave negative feedback along with reporting it to the resort. I'd also post the seller on Tug to let others know who to avoid.

GreenTea said:

I would definitely not be hoping to buy a correct week from him. I'd be running.

Click to expand...

Agreed, not sure I would buy anything from someone that provided fake documents...

But as the OP said, definitely check everything over...

Over the years I have probably bought 30 - 40 different Weeks. Never asked for (or received) an estoppel. I won't say I think they are worthless but on a more positive note I will say I have always done my due diligence on my own. And yes, I have never had a problem being delivered something other than I thought I was buying.

George

Fake estoppels were very common with the Redweek4Less/VP Title group. Redweek4Less stopped selling under that seller ID on eBay last year, but opened up several accounts in November under new names. They listed really great weeks on eBay, but buyers were extremely lucky to get them transferred without major problems.

I've come to expect some errors in eBay listings, but a fake estoppel is not an error. It is intentional deception.

Thanks for all the replies -- I have not been posting much here because I've been preoccupied with health problems. (I am doing better, at the moment.)

The seller in question was Benjamintimeshares. What ended up happening was that he offered me another week, same resort, that was in fact a red season week. Then, about two months after we started the second transaction, he said the week was no longer available and canceled the sale.

I actually think this seller may just be incompetent and the estoppel problem was unintentional. I say this because I also had another transaction with him going on at the same time, at a different resort. That sale not only closed with no problems, but when it closed I found out the 2015 week was available for my use, even though the ad said usage started in 2016. So, I got usage of the 2015 week without having to pay the 2015 MF.

However, even with the free 2015 usage, dealing with this seller was such a hassle that I won't buy from him again.

JudyS said:

<snip> I actually think this seller may just be incompetent and the estoppel problem was unintentional.

Click to expand...

There is a saying...."Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity alone." This genius eBay reseller may not even know what a proper estoppel is in the first place, or where it is supposed to originate --- and just prepared his own half-baked product. At least s/he did not misrepresent it as having actually originated from the resort itself, at least if I understand your post correctly.

There may be deliberately deceptive timeshare resellers on eBay, but I tend to think there is probably just a lot more outright incompetence than deliberate dishonesty.
Regardless of that speculation, I personally do not (and will not) ever engage in timeshare transactions on eBay. In any event (and regardless of advertising venue), timeshare buyers (whether on eBay or elsewhere) should always independently verify every single claim, statement and detail made (or omitted) by any seller.

A former partner had a framed saying on the wall of an office we once shared. It read:
"In God We Trust --- all others we investigate."

theo said:

There is a saying...."Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity alone."
While there may indeed be deliberately deceptive sellers on eBay, I tend to think there is simply a lot more incompetence than outright dishonesty.
Just the same, timeshare buyers (from eBay or elsewhere) should independently verify every single detail.

A former partner had a framed saying on the wall of an office we shared. It said:
"In God We Trust --- everyone else we investigate thoroughly."

Click to expand...

I agree that many eBay sellers make innocent mistakes, but a forged estoppel represented as having been prepared by the resort is not stupidity.

vacationtime1 said:

I agree that many eBay sellers make innocent mistakes, but a forged estoppel represented as having been prepared by the resort is not stupidity.

Click to expand...

It is possible that the actual owner gave them bad info.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

an estoppel letter should be provided by the resort...not the owner.

Whenever I've asked for and received an estoppel, I used it to call the resort to confirm the details. A Seller deliberately providing a fake estoppel should logically expect a Buyer to do the same - so the fraud would be found out. Why provide a deliberate fraud? Makes no sense to me.

Dave

vacationtime1 said:

I agree that many eBay sellers make innocent mistakes, but a forged estoppel represented as having been prepared by the resort is not stupidity.

Click to expand...

A minor point perhaps, but I did not previously (and still do not now) actually read the OP post as stating that the half-baked, substitute estoppel was "forged" ("forged" as in overtly and falsely representing the resort as being the point of origin). As speculated, the genius reseller may not actually have known what a proper estoppel is in the first place, nor where it is supposed to originate, nor who is supposed to and authorized to sign it --- so then simply prepared his / her own.

On the other hand, the phrase "knew or should have known" comes immediately to mind and I would studiously avoid this reseller in the future.

I cannot locate the estoppel that was sent, but I don't think it specifically said it had been prepared by the resort. I do know that the resort told me all of their estopples should be on their letterhead, and the one the eBay seller sent me wasn't on resort letterhead.

BMWguynw said:

Whenever I've asked for and received an estoppel, I used it to call the resort to confirm the details.

Click to expand...

Why bother with the estoppel? As I said in a prior post I have never requested an estoppel but rather just did my own due diligence right from the get go. 30 or 40 purchases over the years and never burned.

George

bogey21 said:

Why bother with the estoppel? As I said in a prior post I have never requested an estoppel but rather just did my own due diligence right from the get go. 30 or 40 purchases over the years and never burned.

George

Click to expand...

That certainly can work, too. It may also depend on where you're buying from, and how the deal is being handled. For me, an estoppel at least gives me something in writing to work from. It's easy for a reseller (especially on eBay) to claim an error was a listing typo. If they send me a (presumed) legit estoppel, I can more easily call the resort and find out the scoop on things. Some resellers are more forthcoming than others. And some I've dealt with are specifically dishonest. YMMV.

Dave