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Old May 3, 2012, 11:44 AM   #26
j1ceasar
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BBS Reg. Date: Feb 23, 12
Location: SUNNY FLORIDA
Posts: 10
Esj Towers Fee's

For TWO weeks we pay $ 575 studio - $672 as well as one bedroom ..

Well maintained pool, rooms and lobby .

Its in puerto rico next to ESJ Casino -- these are tower units and I think one of the reasons it's reasonable is that there are a sufficient amount of total owners as a ratio to management costs.

Compare to some very small T.S. or newer facilities.

Electricity is a main large budget item in P.R.

We need to start a google spreadsheet for comparisons...

In branson I own a week that costs $ 675 - way higher !!!
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Old May 3, 2012, 12:22 PM   #27
ronparise
 
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Location: Fort Myers Fl
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Resorts: Wyndham, Worldmark, and weeks in New Orleans, San Antonio, New Mexico and Hawaii
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Originally Posted by ambrosij View Post
I think it is difficult to expect or even present the idea that in addition to the construction cost the developer absorb MF costs, especially with all the construction bankruptcies that have occurred as of late. However, if there are unoccupied units that are resort managed for rental purposes, or if the developer maintains promotion units for marketing then they should absolutely be paying the MF for those units. And, if it is upkeep we are talking about then I see no reason why the MF would be different than that of an owner. I do agree that making it much more difficult for MF to increase would raise the value and price of timeshares. I have parents coming to stay in Williamsburg in August, I was going to book a one bedroom with RCI points..which calculating exchange fee and points for a one bedroom comes out to $685, not bad...pretty cheap for a week stay...but hold on just one second. Going to the resorts website I am able to book a room for nearly $120 less...same room, same amenities...for LESS!!. Now my question is who paying the MF's on these rooms that are resort leased for the week? Are they absorbed by the actual owners? I don't know, but I am guessing yes. If you look at many of these balance sheets, the Timeshares are registered as non-profits (the developer is for-profit obviously)...but there is some very creative accounting going on to show a deficit each and every year...or barely breaking even. I also question if some of the owner/board members have the executive and business background to identify these types of creative accounting scenarios.

The bottom line is that the "bottom line" is not always the true BOTTOM LINE, and the board needs to be able to call out the corporate hooligans when they see them. In this era of corporate fraud and manipulation owners need to be more diligent about who is running their time share and how their proxy votes are used. You look at resorts like Winner's Circle in Solana, Tree Tops in Gaitlinburg, and a number of other independents and what you see is that they have managed to keep MF reasonable, build value for their owners, reasonably update their properties, and for the most part keep their foreclosure rates very low and occupancy rates fairly high.
I cant speak to your specific resort, but if these rentals are owned by the hoa or in control of the hoa (perhaps weeks owned by folks who stopped paying mf) then the rent money goes into the resorts budget....Your mf is more than it should be if 100% of the owners were paying mf, but less than it would be if they didnt rent this stuff

For example I own at a resort where 17% of the weeks are not generating maintenance fees...This is shown as a big expense item in the budget....But there is another line on the budget called "other income" and this included the rental income that they bring in... These two lines...bad debt and other income are pretty much the same.....ie the rental dollars go to keeping mf at a reasonable level
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Old May 3, 2012, 12:39 PM   #28
Mel
 
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While I understand the concept behind rising fees laid out by some that serve on boards, I fail to see why a properly managed resort should have maintenance fees any higher than the annual MF at a comparable condo facility. For example, MF at doorman condos in Manhattan are about $1.40 per sqft. So, the Manhattan club, for example, should have comparable MF of about $1400 monthly for their largest unit. Multiply this by 12 for a total of $16,800, add in a 15% premium because of the complexity shared ownership for a total of $19320. I will even go a step further and add in another 5% for furniture and appliance updates and now we are at $20,286. Divide that total number by 52 and you get about $392.00...which would be considered a very low maintenance fee.
But you have to consider what those condo fees cover compared to your maintenance fees.
Do those Condo fees include all property tax, or is that billed to the Condo owner?
How about utilities? (heat, water, phone, cable...)
How about a weekly cleaning? That runs about $50 here, probably more in NYC, particularly if you want it done on weekends.
Your 5% for furniture and appliance updates equates to about $700 per year per unit. That's enough to cover a new set of linens and dishware, but will that replace the funiture and appliances as needed - or repair them when they break down? Yes, fees are high, but a large portion of what is covered by your maintenance fee that condo owners would pay on their own (or do without) relates to services, and you're paying a premium for some services to be performed on the weekends, and for others to be on-call and available as needed.
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Old May 3, 2012, 01:33 PM   #29
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But you have to consider what those condo fees cover compared to your maintenance fees.
Do those Condo fees include all property tax, or is that billed to the Condo owner?
How about utilities? (heat, water, phone, cable...)
How about a weekly cleaning? That runs about $50 here, probably more in NYC, particularly if you want it done on weekends.
Your 5% for furniture and appliance updates equates to about $700 per year per unit. That's enough to cover a new set of linens and dishware, but will that replace the funiture and appliances as needed - or repair them when they break down? Yes, fees are high, but a large portion of what is covered by your maintenance fee that condo owners would pay on their own (or do without) relates to services, and you're paying a premium for some services to be performed on the weekends, and for others to be on-call and available as needed.
Agreed... I was thinking the same while reading thru this thread.
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Old May 25, 2012, 11:27 PM   #30
Quadmaniac
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Resorts: Sheraton Desert Oasis, Marriott Willow Ridge (3), Harbour Lake (2), Royal Palms
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Some timeshare presentations, or maybe more than some, like to use the prepaid vacation mumbojumbo as a reason for buying. These same hotels/resorts put absolutely no money in an escrow to cover any future expenses and therefore depend on the "owners" for all the upkeep money. Maybe it would be a good thing to put half of all the money obtained in purchases to be put in an actual prepaid vacation type account to keep maintenance fees at the original purchase price. This would also increase resale value. I don't think it'll fly though because sales and the real owner of timeshare properties like to run off with as much cash as they can carry.
I can guarantee you that this will never happen as you are looking at two different things. The "money" you pay for the unit goes to the developer for the "cost" of building it and profit (which is the lion's share). They're not reducing their profits to keep your MF's the same, not realistic. If they were going to create a MF fund, it would be tacked onto the already inflated price you are paying from the developer. They already have your money, so why would they care about what MF you pay each year ?

Much of the time, the bulk of the MF's are the profit margin by the management company. Given each company is different and approach things differently but take Marriott Maui Ocean Club where their MF is $1900 for a 2 BR in the old towers. On a year basis, $100,000 MF per year per unit. How does a unit cost $100,000 or $8,000 per month to maintain ? That's a lot of maintenance even with a reserve fund.
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Old May 26, 2012, 01:23 PM   #31
Kola
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Originally Posted by ambrosij View Post
...."The bottom line is that the "bottom line" is not always the true BOTTOM LINE, and the board needs to be able to call out the corporate hooligans when they see them. In this era of corporate fraud and manipulation owners need to be more diligent about who is running their time share and how their proxy votes are used.......
Two comments: a) the bottom line is not always 'the bottom line' from a different perspective. That fact that one can find heavily discounted weeks on offer from II or RCI as 'getaways' ( and I use them often for offseason vacations) does not mean that actual maintenance COSTs for these weeks are any lower. In fact, the prime season owners pay inflated M/T fees in order for the resort management to afford to pay the required ANNUAL maintenance and annual tax rates. Heating, power, cleaning costs, taxes, etc. cannot be cut in half in off-season.
b) in most cases, particularly where large resorts are managed by the corporate developer or by his affiliated company, individual owners simply cannot and do not have any voice about how their resorts are managed. With thousands of individual owners in a given resort there is simply no practical way for a majority to be present at annual meetings and cast a vote on budgetary issues. Except for owners who happen to live close by, most owners would not even think of spending money to travel for an annual meeting.
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