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Old April 30, 2012, 03:42 PM   #1
BJRSanDiego
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Bulk assignment versus depositing own high demand week?

The other day I wanted to see what my Feb 2013 Maui reservation could command in terms of possible comparible exchanges. I was surprised that I could no longer do a manual search in II. On Exchange > My units, there was no longer a clickable. I saw some new words that said "Bulk assignment" call this number.

It turns out that my TS mgmt company unilaterally decided to change their policies. According to them, if I want to Browse what might be available for exchange, all I need to do is to call them and they will make a deposit from their bank of bulk inventory. Hey wait a minute - - how about if I am not sure that I want to make a deposit and I want to see first what I could exchange into first, before losing my home reservation.

I spoke to a VP of the mgmt company and he was very smooth. Kind of a cross between a politician and a TS salesman. He said that they made the change because some TS owners were forgetting to make a reservation until the end of their use-year. So it is their equivalent of "no dummy is left behind". When I complained that it was going to reduce the tradeability (high demand week a year in advance versus a blended average demand week roughly 6 months in advance) the TS VP said "not all that much..."

I took a look at some historical posts in the sightings area and found that while the mgmt company was setting this up that I could see my home resort as being available on II up to 15 or 16 months in advance. As an owner I can't reserve any further than 365 days out. So that seems like they were siphoning off inventory from the owners.

I would like opinions from others who might be familiar with this issue. Specifically:
1. What value or benefit is the bulk assignment to me?
2. What are the negatives?
3. What are the benefits to the mgmt company or what was the real driving force behind this nonsense?
4. How prevalent is this bulk assignment in the timeshare industry?

Fellow TUG members - - your thoughts?
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Old April 30, 2012, 04:43 PM   #2
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We own at resorts that allow the selection of the week and resorts, or resort groups, that do buld depositing. To be honest, if you own in a high demand resort group or resort, it really doesn't seem to matter. If you have a resort that's questionable as to demand, it can make all the difference in the world.

As an example I'll use HGVC, which doesn't allow you to reserve a specific week, yet the exchange value across the board is strong. I can usually get what I want with my HGVC bulk deposited week. Then we have a week at a resort in Branson where the demand isn't so strong unless everything else has been reserved. In that case, reserving a strong demand week can make all the difference in the world.

I can see the arguement that people don't plan, then can't get the week they want, then get all ticked off because they procrastinated. This protects the management company because they can reserve the higher demand weeks, weeks they know owners want, and hold them for the slow pokes. Let's face it, everyone can't plan their vacations a year in advance, or even six months in advance for that matter. My step-son is having problems getting his employer to commit to allowing him to take vacation with us for our end of June vacation this year!

To be honest I've learned to prefer the points based systems where it's all bulk deposit. It allows me to pick and choose the best weeks at the best resorts without having to worry about being up at 06:00 AM and dialing the phone repeatedly, trying in vain to get through, just to reserve a week for personal use. This system allows owners to USE the most popular weeks rather than owners giving them away to exhange companies, who may in turn rent these very popular weeks rather than allowing them into the exchange pool for other guests to use.

Of course I'm looking at this through the eyes of someone who buys to use rather than buys strictly to exchange. We DO exchange quite a bit but, I like being able to easily reserve higher demand weeks at resorts or resort groups we own.

As to searching, not being able to search without commiting to a deposit WOULD drive me insane. I enjoy doing a little bit of drive by shopping, just to see what's out there. Not having access to my drive by shopping would get on my nerves quickly.
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Old April 30, 2012, 07:17 PM   #3
slum808
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Check out this link for more info. Similar info on SOK in post #7

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165115
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Old April 30, 2012, 08:08 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BJRSanDiego View Post
1. What value or benefit is the bulk assignment to me?
2. What are the negatives?
3. What are the benefits to the mgmt company or what was the real driving force behind this nonsense?
4. How prevalent is this bulk assignment in the timeshare industry?

Fellow TUG members - - your thoughts?
!. None
2. Far too many to list. But you can rest assured this somehow benefits management not you as an exchange company user.
3. The ability to hold the best times for rental - you'd think it would also benefit owners that choose to use rather than exchange. But it usually doesn't.
4. It has now infected most float time resorts. Worse yet some - gee, why does Wastegate come up yet again? - that only SELL and DEED fixed weeks STILL substitute lesser times for your deeded ownership (if the exchange lets them get away with it. II does - so far RCI, SFX and others don't but that could change).

That last move is totally out of line and all owners should do eveything they can to stop it. Even with float times it isn't right and your Board should put a stop to it.
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Old April 30, 2012, 11:00 PM   #5
BJRSanDiego
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slum808 View Post
Check out this link for more info. Similar info on S O K in post #7

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165115
Yes, that post #7 was me before I spoke to the VP and got his smooth line. So it doesn't add a lot of new info for me. However, thanks for your courtesy of mentioning it. Interestingly, the VP of the mgmt co. had a Google alert which notified him of what I posted. So, he mentioned that he had read it and had already attributed it to me. Maybe I should change my screen name.

Yes, I own at the S..and..S of Ka..ha..na (I'm spacing it out so that it doesn't show up on their google alert. I love the TS but don't find any upside potential in what the mgmt co. is doing. Things worked well before. They don't work quite as good now (i.e., must depost my week before I can look to see what else is available). Nothing has been communicated to the owners regarding this change and it was not discussed at the annual meeting. I'm wondering if the mgmt co. is doing this through the benevelence of their heart (i.e., "no dummy left behind") or whether there is a direct benefit to the mgmt co. I suspect the latter.
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Old April 30, 2012, 11:57 PM   #6
slum808
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Wow sorry I remembered reading that thread and didn't even look at the user name
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Old May 1, 2012, 03:03 AM   #7
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Is your HOA board member-controlled or developer-controlled. If it is the latter, then that is your real problem. Members need to oust the developer dictatorship. If it is the former, get on the horn to all the HOA board members. This is legitimately a board decision, not a management company decision.

And this is one of the reasons that I avoid owning at floating time resorts. Knowing what you own is better than the crap shooting of floating weeks.
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Old May 1, 2012, 04:01 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timeos2 View Post
!. None
2. Far too many to list. But you can rest assured this somehow benefits management not you as an exchange company user.
3. The ability to hold the best times for rental - you'd think it would also benefit owners that choose to use rather than exchange. But it usually doesn't.
4. It has now infected most float time resorts. Worse yet some - gee, why does Wastegate come up yet again? - that only SELL and DEED fixed weeks STILL substitute lesser times for your deeded ownership (if the exchange lets them get away with it. II does - so far RCI, SFX and others don't but that could change).

That last move is totally out of line and all owners should do eveything they can to stop it. Even with float times it isn't right and your Board should put a stop to it.
DRI once attempted to sub another week for my fixed week I wanted to deposit. I called and argued that I owned that particular week and, according to my documents, was allowed to exchange the exact week I owned. They attempted to tell me different, I continued to challenge and eventually won the debate.

So far, in the systems the have points and bulk deposits, I have yet to be disappointed about getting the reservation/view I desire. I am begining to have issues with HGVC and their Hawaii properties but, I can chalk that up to HGVC selling mega amounts of Vegas and Orlando weeks but telling buyers at those properties own here where it's cheaper and reserve in Hawaii where it's more expensive to own, thus demand remains high for Hawaii but, supply in Hawaii compared to Vegas and Orlando is shrinking (on a ratio of Hawaii to Vegas/Orlando intervals).
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Old May 1, 2012, 09:00 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolinian View Post
Is your HOA board member-controlled or developer-controlled. If it is the latter, then that is your real problem. Members need to oust the developer dictatorship. If it is the former, get on the horn to all the HOA board members. This is legitimately a board decision, not a management company decision.

And this is one of the reasons that I avoid owning at floating time resorts. Knowing what you own is better than the crap shooting of floating weeks.
Unless you own a Wastegate fixed week in which case they ignore that and deposit whatever leftovers they may have in your name. And II allows it! So even plan that is not a guarantee of getting what you paid for.
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Old May 17, 2012, 08:25 PM   #10
BJRSanDiego
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolinian View Post
Is your HOA board member-controlled or developer-controlled. If it is the latter, then that is your real problem. Members need to oust the developer dictatorship. If it is the former, get on the horn to all the HOA board members. This is legitimately a board decision, not a management company decision.

And this is one of the reasons that I avoid owning at floating time resorts. Knowing what you own is better than the crap shooting of floating weeks.
Hi Carolinian,
Unfortunately my HOA is developer controlled. I have been told by SOKCO that this topic was not discussed at the March board meeting. So it appears that it might have been a utilateral decision directed by the mgmt. co. Owner attempts to increase board representation has been an uphill battle.

I learned yesterday that if I want to have a deposit made on my behalf, the mgmt co. "computer" selects the week that transfers to I I. I cannot select a date wayyy out in the future like I used to. As of yesterday for my sized unit, they would transfer an Aug 27, 2012 week. So the previous 3year (max) validity window (2 years plus a year-in-advance deposit) has been shortened to 2 years plus some indeterminant but probably short period.

What I have been unable to determine is:
1. On a bulk assigned week, does I I ignore the fact (for the purpose of determining its value) that it might have been transferred on a fairly short basis? (In this case about 100 days before the reservation, but I suppose that it could even be shorter - - much shorter). Does I I treat it with the same value as the 1-year-in-advance deposit? That is, does it's trading power depend on the date that is on the transferred bulk deposit? (I believe that the "actual" unit that was deposited was actually deposited perhaps a year or more in the future and already exchanged to someone else - - they are just doing book keeping assignment??)
2. Does the tradeability of the assigned deposit depend on the date of that deposit? I had been told by the mgmt co. that it is now supposedly a "blended" (averaged) date. But I have been unable to confirm that with I I.

I'm wondering what others (who are stuck with the assigned dates in their own resort system) have found in regards to the significance of the assigned date? Is it averaged? Is it ignored?

My resort is the S ands of Ka hana on Maui. It is Gold rated but unlike Hawaiian Marriotts, is actually pretty easy to trade into. But it is a Hawaiian property so it should have good tradeability. So, the changes probably won't affect my ability to trade into Orlando or Phoenix or other easy places. But I suspect that my ability to trade into one of the Marriott Kauai or Point at Poipu may have been reduced enough that I don't have much of a chance of doing that trade.
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Old May 17, 2012, 10:19 PM   #11
JuliGee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BJRSanDiego View Post
The other day I wanted to see what my Feb 2013 Maui reservation could command in terms of possible comparible exchanges. I was surprised that I could no longer do a manual search in II. On Exchange > My units, there was no longer a clickable. I saw some new words that said "Bulk assignment" call this number.

It turns out that my TS mgmt company unilaterally decided to change their policies. According to them, if I want to Browse what might be available for exchange, all I need to do is to call them and they will make a deposit from their bank of bulk inventory. Hey wait a minute - - how about if I am not sure that I want to make a deposit and I want to see first what I could exchange into first, before losing my home reservation.

I spoke to a VP of the mgmt company and he was very smooth. Kind of a cross between a politician and a TS salesman. He said that they made the change because some TS owners were forgetting to make a reservation until the end of their use-year. So it is their equivalent of "no dummy is left behind". When I complained that it was going to reduce the tradeability (high demand week a year in advance versus a blended average demand week roughly 6 months in advance) the TS VP said "not all that much..."

I took a look at some historical posts in the sightings area and found that while the mgmt company was setting this up that I could see my home resort as being available on II up to 15 or 16 months in advance. As an owner I can't reserve any further than 365 days out. So that seems like they were siphoning off inventory from the owners.

I would like opinions from others who might be familiar with this issue. Specifically:
1. What value or benefit is the bulk assignment to me?
2. What are the negatives?
3. What are the benefits to the mgmt company or what was the real driving force behind this nonsense?
4. How prevalent is this bulk assignment in the timeshare industry?

Fellow TUG members - - your thoughts?
If you are the owner of a deeded unit, how can a management company or developer take control of your time that you and the other owners own without your express permission? Is there any provision in the CC & R's or other governing documents allowing such an action?

Juli
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Old May 18, 2012, 01:28 AM   #12
Carolinian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuliGee View Post
If you are the owner of a deeded unit, how can a management company or developer take control of your time that you and the other owners own without your express permission? Is there any provision in the CC & R's or other governing documents allowing such an action?

Juli
Wastegate apparently does so, but they would be on very thin ice legally if challenged.

Some management companies make up their own rules, and this is one reason I prefer resorts that have hired management rather than a management company. The type of resorts I like to own at, to make sure my rights as an owner are protected are 1) fixed week / fixed unit 2) member controlled HOA 3) under hired management (all three resorts I own at in North Carolina, the UK, and South Africa have hired management rather than a management company).
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Old May 18, 2012, 03:21 AM   #13
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Even though your mgmt. company's computer just transferred a week to you for August 2012 and told II that this week was to be assigned to your account, in all likelihood this week was transferred to II in a bulk transfer a year or even more ahead. I used to own at a resort that did bulk transfers, and this is how they did it. In fact, when I called to get a week assigned, I'd ask for one in the month I wanted (that is, if I wanted to travel in November, I wouldn't want to accept an August week if I didn't have to). They always accommodated me. When your resort bulk banks, btw, once they assign the week to you, they go into their computer and make an immediate notice to II. By the time you hang up, your II account is aware of this.

Fern

Quote:
Originally Posted by BJRSanDiego View Post
I learned yesterday that if I want to have a deposit made on my behalf, the mgmt co. "computer" selects the week that transfers to I I. I cannot select a date wayyy out in the future like I used to. As of yesterday for my sized unit, they would transfer an Aug 27, 2012 week. So the previous 3year (max) validity window (2 years plus a year-in-advance deposit) has been shortened to 2 years plus some indeterminant but probably short period.

What I have been unable to determine is:
1. On a bulk assigned week, does I I ignore the fact (for the purpose of determining its value) that it might have been transferred on a fairly short basis? (In this case about 100 days before the reservation, but I suppose that it could even be shorter - - much shorter). Does I I treat it with the same value as the 1-year-in-advance deposit? That is, does it's trading power depend on the date that is on the transferred bulk deposit? (I believe that the "actual" unit that was deposited was actually deposited perhaps a year or more in the future and already exchanged to someone else - - they are just doing book keeping assignment??)
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Old May 18, 2012, 06:23 AM   #14
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Not all management companies work that way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolinian View Post
Some management companies make up their own rules, and this is one reason I prefer resorts that have hired management rather than a management company. The type of resorts I like to own at, to make sure my rights as an owner are protected are 1) fixed week / fixed unit 2) member controlled HOA 3) under hired management (all three resorts I own at in North Carolina, the UK, and South Africa have hired management rather than a management company).
One of the two float weeks I own is at a resort managed by VRI.

As soon as I pay my MFs on line, I get on the phone and request the week I want. I float 4 weeks in the spring and 4 in the fall. In 6 years I have always gotten the first week I requested.

I then trade that specific week.

I don't use II or RCI so that could be the difference, I'm not sure.

My point is that it's not the fact that a resort is managed by an outside company, it's what the owners are putting up with that matters.

It seems as although some of you are called "owners" but are simply the bill payers and someone else is controlling what you think you own.
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Old May 18, 2012, 11:24 AM   #15
crjask
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Also SoK owner

I made my reservation for week 7 in February. I used it to search a couple of times and then in March, I could no longer do that. I had decided to deposit, so I called and complained first and then said I wanted to deposit the week I had reserved. I was told they had to see if it was "available". I said "of course it is, I have it reserved already."
She still insisted she had to "check", but in the end my week 7 is what was deposited. I think that is how to play this new game. Make the reservation and then later call back and insist on "your week" being the deposit.
Hopefully it will work the next time too.
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Old May 18, 2012, 10:01 PM   #16
muranojo
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I also own at a floating week resort which is affiliated with RCI and bulk banks. They deposit a bulk of weeks to RCI far in advance, knowing some owners will want to deposit to RCI and this process supposedly "helps to assure you have the best trade power due to early deposit, because some people wait til the last minute to deposit."

Therefore, when you call to ask them to deposit your week to RCI, there is no guarantee what week you'll get because they 'randomly' assign you a week from the bulk deposit. You should, however, get a week within your designated float window. Unfortunately, of course, you most often don't get a top trader.

A couple of times, I've had success in reserving a week, holding it for a while, then calling the resort and asking then to deposit that week, and they do. But this is rare and I wouldn't count on it.

Remember, you should be able to reserve your week and then go to an independent and deposit there. They then contact your resort and process the exchange. There may be exceptions to this, so it's best to ask the independent if they're able to take your resort's week.
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Old May 18, 2012, 10:05 PM   #17
BJRSanDiego
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crjask View Post
Make the reservation and then later call back and insist on "your week" being the deposit.
Hopefully it will work the next time too.
This is good advice. Thanks. I'm hoping that this over-rides the "blended" or averaged TDI value that is assigned to the trade unit.

Tnx again.
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Old June 3, 2012, 07:26 AM   #18
crjask
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Changed back to owner deposit

Hi. Just visited II and have found that they have changed SoK back to the ability for owner deposit rather than bulk.
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Old June 3, 2012, 10:45 AM   #19
funtime
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Bulk deposit worked in my favor

I own a summer Lakesside Terrace in Avon and they do bulk deposits with Sheraton. They assigned a ski week to my account. Bulk deposits do have the advantage of already being seasoned and not last minute deposits.
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