TPU "inflation"... is it RCI or resort thinking boosting required TPUs?

Carolinian · Dec 10, 2011

When RCI is shortchanging depositing members in this way, it is a likely sign that this is an area where they are renting out exchange deposits to the general public. It would appear that the number of points lite given for deposits is what RCI would claim as the ''value'' to balance the system in any new class action, so it benefits them to depress the areas where they are renting. Similarly the inventory they feed it to the system from developer bulkbanks to ''balance'' their rentals will be overpointed. It is not supply and demand of members that sets numbers but what justifies RCI's actions in its rentals.

And, yes, HHI is one of the areas that is screwed in the Brave New World of RCI Points Lite.

janej said:
I just noticed something really strange too. I recently sold my timeshare at Waterside by Spinnaker in Hilton Head. We don't go every year and RCI only gave about 30 TPU for summer weeks for close to $700 MF.

Today, I noticed the TPU required to trade in jumped. Here are a few examples of the higher TPUs
2 Bedrooms 6 (6) Full Sat 30-Jun-2012 Sat 07-Jul-2012 41
3 Bedrooms 8 (8) Full Sat 08-Sep-2012 Sat 15-Sep-2012 42
2 Bedrooms 6 (6) Full Sat 26-May-2012 Sat 02-Jun-2012 41
3 Bedrooms 8 (8) Full Sat 21-Apr-2012 Sat 28-Apr-2012 41

I went and used the deposit calculator to see if there is any increase in TPU given to the owners. Here is what I found for the four weeks listed here
35, 22, 23, 26 TPU. The TPU values I used here are the full values, the actually TPU value the owners will receive is lower since all four weeks passed the 9 months checkin mark. I can understand RCI changes the TPU values based on supply and demand. They could ask for a higher value than they gave after receiving a deposit. But how do you explain continue to offer owners half of the value that they currently ask for?

By the way, this discrepancy is new to Waterside. I monitored the TPU values before I sold. Even though there were rarely any summer weeks available for exchange, the values were in line with what deposit calculator shows when a week popped up occasionally.

6scoops · Dec 10, 2011

chriskre said:
Woo Hoo!!!! You go Girl!!!

I too got a nice DVC exchange for only 19 TPU's in a 2 bedroom.
Vero here I come.
And this would have cost me 2 years MF's in DVC and I still couldn't get it. :annoyed:

off topic I know, but.. I have to say SCORE!!

Love it!! Vero is my family's favorite vacation. My kids walked the beach with Dr. Ann Savage (featured in the new Disney Files) to check if any turtle nests had hatched during the night, and sure enough they had to help a baby turtle find its way to the ocean because it did not make it out of the nest with the rest of it's family. So far RCI hasn't raised the tpu for Vero Beach, I hope it stays that way!

Margariet · Dec 10, 2011

Carolinian said:
The smart thing for a London, or indeed UK, resort to do is what Sloan Garden Court resort in London did, and that is kick RCI out the door and start using a different exchange company as your main exchange provider. In their case it was SFX. Or what the Seasons chain did and switch to II.

You mean 'Sloane Gardens Club' in Chelsea which exists of only 10 apartments which are mostly rented out. I wouldn't change to SFX fot that!

tombo · Dec 10, 2011

Margariet said:
You mean 'Sloane Gardens Club' in Chelsea which exists of only 10 apartments which are mostly rented out. I wouldn't change to SFX fot that!

See there you go with those pesky facts. Only 10 apts that are mainly rented out is his shining example of a highly desired London resort that left RCI for SFX. What a joke. Carolinian disregards facts and suspends all reality when he posts his hate about RCI.

I am sure that neither RCI nor SFX ever saw or will see many of these for exchange as the resort has an agressive rental program for only 10 units. What a loss to RCI. :rofl: http://www.sloanegardensclub.co.uk/rentals.phtml

It is always amazing to me that Carolinian spends so much time and effort hating a company he does not exchange with, has not exchanged with in years, and an RCI he has said that he will never deposit a week with again. Why can't he just move on?

When I am spending New year's eve in New orleans courtesy of RCI, Mardis Gras in New Orleans courtesy of RCI, my anniversarry in New York city at the MC on an RCI exchange, and during my other upcoming exchanges I will be a very happy RCI member as I have gotten every exchange I want for the upcoming year. Nobody can make me unhappy with an RCI that is working very well for the exchanges I want just because they dislike it, not even Carolinian.

Carolinian · Dec 11, 2011

Margariet said:
You mean 'Sloane Gardens Club' in Chelsea which exists of only 10 apartments which are mostly rented out. I wouldn't change to SFX fot that!

The fact that it is easier to trade into London through SFX than RCI is the real fact that makes a difference. Availibility at Sloan Garden at SFX comes up more often at SFX than Allen House or other London comes up at RCI.

As to Manhattan Club, that also is availble through SFX, and without 1) the outrageous ''hospitality fee'' charged to RCI exchangers, and 2) the 1 in 4 rule that RCI imposes and SFX does not.

AgelessTravel · Dec 11, 2011

chriskre said:
Woo Hoo!!!! You go Girl!!!

I too got a nice DVC exchange for only 19 TPU's in a 2 bedroom.
Vero here I come.
And this would have cost me 2 years MF's in DVC and I still couldn't get it. :annoyed:

I also got a two bedroom unit at Vero Beach for May. I was so excited! There was also a two bedroom for HHI for the same week, but it was gone before I could grab it. I find TPU for DVC Vero and HHI are very reasonable.

Mel · Dec 11, 2011

Carolinian said:
The fact that it is easier to trade into London through SFX than RCI is the real fact that makes a difference. Availibility at Sloan Garden at SFX comes up more often at SFX than Allen House or other London comes up at RCI.

As to Manhattan Club, that also is availble through SFX, and without 1) the outrageous ''hospitality fee'' charged to RCI exchangers, and 2) the 1 in 4 rule that RCI imposes and SFX does not.

But is SFX getting that Sloan Garden inventory as exchanges, or are they allowing exchangers to use rental inventory? If the latter, then something someone else deposited must be rented out to cover the cost of the Sloan Garden inventory. The exact thing that upsets you about RCI: co-mingling of exchange and rental inventory.

How do you suppose RCI gets inventory at some of the most popular new resorts, when there are not enough new owners making deposits? SFX probably offered them a better deal, and was willing to take a smaller cut.

Carolinian · Dec 12, 2011

Mel said:
But is SFX getting that Sloan Garden inventory as exchanges, or are they allowing exchangers to use rental inventory? If the latter, then something someone else deposited must be rented out to cover the cost of the Sloan Garden inventory. The exact thing that upsets you about RCI: co-mingling of exchange and rental inventory.

How do you suppose RCI gets inventory at some of the most popular new resorts, when there are not enough new owners making deposits? SFX probably offered them a better deal, and was willing to take a smaller cut.

Sloane Garden is a timeshare and SFX deposits are timeshare deposits. I am sure that Allen House, Manhattane Club and similar resorts have quite a few owners who rent, too, rather than puttiing their weeks up for exchange.

As usual, you are jumping to conclusions in your attempts to defend RCI. I well remember some of your more unusual arguments as you were one of the very last holdout ''deniers'' on RCI's rentals to the general public and then shifted to being a defender of those practices.

As to ''popular'' new resorts, the key word is new. Developers need bodies at those resorts, both for the image for the benefit of sales prospects of active people having fun, and also to be sales prospects themselves. Developers used to just bulkbank developer weeks with exchange companies for this purpose, and some still do, but now many either rent them in bulk at a cheap price to exchange companies or they do rentals themselves directly or both. The developer needs bodies at the new resort and has to get them somehow.

Margariet · Dec 12, 2011

Sloane Gardens Club is also being rented out by SFX. I don't see any difference with RCI. It's the same practice as with extra vacations with RCI. Only a few weeks are done by exchange, most of them are rented out via payment. Or are rented out directly by Sloane Gardens Club.

Carolinian · Dec 12, 2011

Margariet said:
Sloane Gardens Club is also being rented out by SFX. I don't see any difference with RCI. It's the same practice as with extra vacations with RCI. Only a few weeks are done by exchange, most of them are rented out via payment. Or are rented out directly by Sloane Gardens Club.

I will you Ask SFX on another t/s board about your accusation, and post their response.

Occaisionally, a Sloane Garden week such as a late cancellation does show up on SFX's selloff list, which are rentals of exchange deposits, but done at the last minute, like DAE's bonus weeks. That is a horse of a different color from RCI immediately putting exchange deposits into their rental pool as soon as they are deposited. Surely you can comprehend the vast difference in those practices.

Also, Sloane Garden is hardly the only English resort that handles rentals for their members who wish to rent. Many US resorts do the same, as do South African resorts.

Carolinian · Dec 12, 2011

Are they now being honest enough to give you the exact same number of points lite for a deposit as they charge for an exchange of the same week at the same point in time, or are they still at their old flim-flam on that?

tombo said:
RCI has been adjusting TPU's based on demand very agressivelly recently. I put a Mardis Gras New Orleans studio on hold for 22 tpu's. I could not believe I had found a Mardis Gras week and was thrilled that it was only 22 TPU's. My wife could could not get off of work so I let it go. The next day she found out she could get off and I went back to find the same unit had risen to 29 tpu's in 24 hours. None of the January, February, or March non Mardis Gras weeks had increased, only the dates during Mardis Gras. It is like RCI said Oh I see why those are disappearing so fast, it is Mardis Geas. Duhh!

A couple of months ago before RCI adjusted the high demand weeks I booked a New Years Eve/Sugar Bowl week in a NOLA studiofor 13 TPU's. I know that was wayy too cheap for the demand for that week in NOLA, but I was happy to snag it.. Looking at the deposit calculator that week had a max tpu of 15 this year. Next year the deposit calculator shows that exact week is worth 20 TPU's for deposit.

Labor Day week 2011 I booked a Gold Crown Oceanfront 2 bed Wyndham for 18 TPU's. That was cheap and of course I loved it. A one bed room was available at the same resort the other day for August week for 27 TPU's.

They have raised both what they charge for prime high demand weeks, and they have raised how much they are giving you for depositing your prime weeks. If you haven't used the deposit calculator latelly to see what your prime weeks are worth, try it because it is probably worth more now than it used to be worth.

One of my summer units was valued on thr RCI calculator about 2 months ago for 19 TPU's. It is now worth 28 tpu's if I deposit it. Another of my weeks went from 22 TPU's about 2 months ago to 30 TPU's now. Another week went from 18 to 26. Another fixed week one bed unit Prime Week at a Hard to get resort was only 34 when I deposited it for 2012, it is now worth 40 tpu's if I deposit it for 2013. These were all prime summer weeks I always felt I was being shortchanged on. I feel much better depositing them now than I did a few months ago.

Mel · Dec 12, 2011

First, Carolinian, I never denied that RCI rented out weeks - I have always maintained that they swapped weeks out of exchange inventory in order to balance the equation when they placed rental inventory INTO to exchange pool. How else did people get brand new resorts as exchanges, when the new owners weren't depositing their weeks? Developer inventory is not exchange inventory, and the developers do expect to be compensated in some way for those weeks. They used to be compensated through "bonus weeks" that were given either to prospects as part of their tour incentives, or to new owners in exchange for their deposits. Did you ever tour Massanutten, or any other place where you know they didn't have the really high demand, yet somehow RCI awarded a bonus week to every deposit? Those weren't RCI awards, those were from the developer, used to make it look like RCI really wanted those weeks! I haven't heard of any developers pushing those bonus weeks anymore, so RCI must have found another way to compensate them - and perhaps with the ability of those resorts to market rentals online, they wanted cash, not credits for bonus weeks (which were somewhat worthless anyway).

SFX touts that they have access to loads of inventory for many sources, including other exchange companies. If that is the case, one would expect that they are trading their own inventory to these other exchange companies to get what they need to satisfy their customers. Or in some cases, they may even be renting out weeks so they can use the cash to rent the weeks their members want (to entice them to deposit the best of the best weeks). Even SFX eliminated their bonus weeks, and now have "lifestyle weeks" which are simply a discount on their rentals. And similar discounts can be found with a bit of online research - just like with cruise exchanges (which incidentally, SFX also offers, just like RCI).

So it sounds like it's OK in your book, for a small exchange company such as SFX, to conduct business in this manner, but not OK for RCI. The business models are similar - do what you can to secure the inventory that will please your customers. RCI shouldn't be in the rental business, but SFX is just as much into rentals as RCI, if not more! So, is SFX an exchange company, or a multi-faceted travel organization? If SFX does it, it's a good business practice, if RCI does it's evin incarnate.

Margariet · Dec 12, 2011

Carolinian said:
I will you Ask SFX on another t/s board about your accusation, and post their response.

Occaisionally, a Sloane Garden week such as a late cancellation does show up on SFX's selloff list, which are rentals of exchange deposits, but done at the last minute, like DAE's bonus weeks. That is a horse of a different color from RCI immediately putting exchange deposits into their rental pool as soon as they are deposited. Surely you can comprehend the vast difference in those practices.

Also, Sloane Garden is hardly the only English resort that handles rentals for their members who wish to rent. Many US resorts do the same, as do South African resorts.

Accusation?? Nobody committed a crime.

Just business: Sloane Gardens Club rents out. You can see it on their website. So does SFX. You can see it on their website. There are many weeks to rent. They can't be all cancellations.

Margariet · Dec 12, 2011

[Carolinian, I am posting this so you can post it on the other forum since I am not a member of it. That SFX representative is not very professional in his reaction but we have seen that before from other companies!]

90 days in advance is also renting out. SFX does that all the time. No offense, but that's just the way of the world. RCI does it and all other TS exchange companies do it. Exchange or rent. And Sloane Gardens Club rents out all the time.

I don't defend or offend any TS exchange company. I am not a fan or enemy of any company. We need them, that's all, and we are happy if they give us a good deal. In the past we chose RCI because their inventory is the largest. If SFX would have been larger it could have been an option as well but they are too small and only interested in specific resorts as desposit. If SFX works out for you and for exchange in London, that's fine. But it doesn't mean SFX is the best and RCI or II or DAE or every other company is bad.

Carolinian · Dec 13, 2011

Here is the thread from Ask SFX on another forum where this question was asked and answered:

http://www.timeshareforums.com/forums/ask-sfx/124392-sloane-garden-london.html

mav · Dec 13, 2011

tombo said:
See there you go with those pesky facts. Only 10 apts that are mainly rented out is his shining example of a highly desired London resort that left RCI for SFX. What a joke. Carolinian disregards facts and suspends all reality when he posts his hate about RCI.

I am sure that neither RCI nor SFX ever saw or will see many of these for exchange as the resort has an agressive rental program for only 10 units. What a loss to RCI. :rofl: http://www.sloanegardensclub.co.uk/rentals.phtml

TOMBO! :hysterical: You are too funny, and don't have a clue! I have exchanged TWICE into Sloane Gardens thru SFX, both times in prime season, once for me and once for a family member! SOOOO, yeah, I am happy with SFX. Could have gone there AGAIN for a week last summer, which would have made it my THIRD EXCHANGE, but I was already booked in Bavaria that week. Thank you SFX! Love you guys and gals!

Margariet · Dec 13, 2011

Carolinian said:
Here is the thread from Ask SFX on another forum where this question was asked and answered:

http://www.timeshareforums.com/forums/ask-sfx/124392-sloane-garden-london.html

I have posted a reaction on that other forum myself, a civil, professional reaction because the representative of SFX posted a very unprofessional, insulting reaction. Very touchy, the SFX people. By the way, it's a very undemocratic forum as well, you cannot post directly, they first judge your post. In my case they moderated my professional reply but assume they have the right to insult me. I am sure the SFX representative has his reasons but it's very unprofessional to take that out on someone from another forum who has nothing to do with SFX, RCI, or Sloane Gardens Club or London or the whole timeshare industry or the tourist industry. I have only noticed that Sloane Gardens Club is a small resort with only 10 apartments who are mostly rented out by Sloane Gardens Club or are available for exchange or rental via SFX and maybe other companies as well? SFX seems to make an important point of renting out only 90 days in advance. Fine, but it's still rental. And that's it for me. Call me ingnorant but I have other things on my mind. :wave:

Cary · Dec 13, 2011

tombo said:
RCI has been adjusting TPU's based on demand very agressivelly recently. I put a Mardis Gras New Orleans studio on hold for 22 tpu's. I could not believe I had found a Mardis Gras week and was thrilled that it was only 22 TPU's. My wife could could not get off of work so I let it go. The next day she found out she could get off and I went back to find the same unit had risen to 29 tpu's in 24 hours. None of the January, February, or March non Mardis Gras weeks had increased, only the dates during Mardis Gras. It is like RCI said Oh I see why those are disappearing so fast, it is Mardis Geas. Duhh!

A couple of months ago before RCI adjusted the high demand weeks I booked a New Years Eve/Sugar Bowl week in a NOLA studiofor 13 TPU's. I know that was wayy too cheap for the demand for that week in NOLA, but I was happy to snag it.. Looking at the deposit calculator that week had a max tpu of 15 this year. Next year the deposit calculator shows that exact week is worth 20 TPU's for deposit.

Labor Day week 2011 I booked a Gold Crown Oceanfront 2 bed Wyndham for 18 TPU's. That was cheap and of course I loved it. A one bed room was available at the same resort the other day for August week for 27 TPU's.

They have raised both what they charge for prime high demand weeks, and they have raised how much they are giving you for depositing your prime weeks. If you haven't used the deposit calculator latelly to see what your prime weeks are worth, try it because it is probably worth more now than it used to be worth.

One of my summer units was valued on thr RCI calculator about 2 months ago for 19 TPU's. It is now worth 28 tpu's if I deposit it. Another of my weeks went from 22 TPU's about 2 months ago to 30 TPU's now. Another week went from 18 to 26. Another fixed week one bed unit Prime Week at a Hard to get resort was only 34 when I deposited it for 2012, it is now worth 40 tpu's if I deposit it for 2013. These were all prime summer weeks I always felt I was being shortchanged on. I feel much better depositing them now than I did a few months ago.

I am not a RCI member. I belong to the II Exchange System. I own at two II resorts and one RCI resort. all are deed weeks.

My question , what does TPU stand for? Trading Power points or what? I love my deeded weeks and find the point system confusing from reading on the board.

tombo · Dec 13, 2011

TPU is I believe trading power units. Under the new RCI weeks program you can search any resort and see how many TPU's it will cost to reserve the week. You can also use a deposit calculator and see how many TPU's RCI will give you if you deposit your week. No more wondering if your week will trade for a summer week at the beach, Disney, Hawaii, etc. You know what your week is worth before you deposit it and you know what resorts you are looking for will coast. Also you can deposit 2 years worth of your week and conmbine the TPU's into one larger amount for a $99 combining fee.

The system has been on TPU's less than 2 years and the values have been changing. The good thing is that if you deposit your week and your resort is devalued they will not reduce the TPU's you received when you deposited it. However if your deposited week sees an increase in TPU value they can increase the TPU's.

bnoble · Dec 13, 2011

I think it is perfectly fair for anyone considering doing business with SFX to read the various threads to which their corporate representative has referred, read the corporate representative's response, and draw your own conclusions.

In general, SFX seems to be working hard to innovate and provide new ways of delivering value to potential customers. I like that, respect that, and appreciate the fact that they are working hard to earn business. I also appreciate that their corporate representative has been up front about the fact that while they would accept weeks from one of my resorts as deposits, those deposits would not be valued particularly highly in their system, and might not deliver results. I REALLY appreciate it when someone tells me when their business *won't* help me, so that I don't get frustrated down the road.

Likewise, the corporate representative has also been happy to offer opinions about what resorts/times would generate the best possible deposits for my point-based ownerships. True, you have to ask, but they will tell you if you do.

On the other hand, I do agree that the corporate representative can be unprofessional at times in his written communication. That, plus the many mixed reviews in terms of results delivered for exchanges gives me pause. It seems that people either get amazing results regularly from SFX, or they find the whole process very frustrating. I'm still not sure I understand how to tell what the difference is. So, I have been hesitant to actually take the plunge, because my other options are more "known quantities" and I have been happy with the value I have gotten from them so far.

rickandcindy23 · Dec 13, 2011

You said that very well, Brian.

I was one of those who was frustrated with SFX for a long time, then I started dealing with one person there, and my opinion changed 180 degrees.

I am not necessarily going to extend our Platinum membership, because we are doing very well with II and RCI at this time. I may extend it, simply because our kids love San Francisco, and SFX is the ideal way to get exactly the dates you want, and at the top resorts.

It's such a boost to our timeshare values having so many choices. And SFX loves getting those smaller 1 bedrooms at SBP, which II apparently doesn't value as much as in the past.

Maybe I just talked myself into extending that membership another five years. (I would bet it's very expensive now.)

bnoble · Dec 13, 2011

I was one of those who was frustrated with SFX for a long time, then I started dealing with one person there, and my opinion changed 180 degrees.

You're not the first person who has said this. SFX seems to be the sort of place where a personal relationship with the right employee goes a long way.

BocaBum99 · Dec 13, 2011

Margariet said:
I have posted a reaction on that other forum myself, a civil, professional reaction because the representative of SFX posted a very unprofessional, insulting reaction. Very touchy, the SFX people. By the way, it's a very undemocratic forum as well, you cannot post directly, they first judge your post. In my case they moderated my professional reply but assume they have the right to insult me. I am sure the SFX representative has his reasons but it's very unprofessional to take that out on someone from another forum who has nothing to do with SFX, RCI, or Sloane Gardens Club or London or the whole timeshare industry or the tourist industry. I have only noticed that Sloane Gardens Club is a small resort with only 10 apartments who are mostly rented out by Sloane Gardens Club or are available for exchange or rental via SFX and maybe other companies as well? SFX seems to make an important point of renting out only 90 days in advance. Fine, but it's still rental. And that's it for me. Call me ingnorant but I have other things on my mind.

Your message was far from professional. You made 4 insults in that message which makes it very unprofessional. Your post was edited to remove the insults. The remainder of your post is there. You were simply asked to be more civil in your postings. The same type of moderation happens on TUG.

By the way, an SFX representative had nothing to do with the editing of your post. It was a TS4Ms moderator who did it.

Regarding the need for pre-moderation, that only happens in the exchange company forums. That policy was instituted after a number of problem posts requiring its implementation.

Margariet · Dec 13, 2011

BocaBum99 said:
Your message was far from professional. You made 4 insults in that message which makes it very unprofessional. Your post was edited to remove the insults. The remainder of your post is there. You were simply asked to be more civil in your postings. The same type of moderation happens on TUG.

By the way, an SFX representative had nothing to do with the editing of your post. It was a TS4Ms moderator who did it.

Regarding the need for pre-moderation, that only happens in the exchange company forums. That policy was instituted after a number of problem posts requiring its implementation.

There were no insults from my part. I consider freedom of speech very important. Moderating a forum in that way kills the freedom of speech of the people. I am glad there is a democratic freedom of speech on this forum and I will not post anymore or read the postings on that other forum.

I posted only a reaction to very touchy, unprofessional and emotional postings on the other forum referring to my posting on this forum regarding the 10 apartments of Sloane Gardens Club. In the two postings at the start of the topic big words were used referring to me and my posting, like 'accusation', 'accusing', 'big advocate of RCI', 'misinformation', 'disinformation', 'lack of knowledge', 'unconscionable', 'reckless', 'irresponsible', 'without any basis', 'without merit', 'without understanding', 'the norm on certain websites', and last but not least: 'why they don't have the courage to post in the SFX forum, where they can get a direct answer?'

I really don't understand how people can get so touchy and upset about the fact that I told that Sloane Gardens Club has only 10 apartment which are rented out by the resort, or are available via exchange or rental by SFX. Renting seems to be a crime and I was told that I accused SFX of renting! I know now that SFX only rents out 90 days in advance which is still rental to me. According to another poster I am 'ignorant' which I consider an insult as well. Even if I don't know that renting by SFX, RCI, or any other timeshare exchange company is a crime, and I just write down information which I thought was only informative business facts, there is no reason to make such a fuss about it. I wrote in my posting: much a do about nothing. But that was removed. And I told the posters to leave me or the others in peace or something like that, which was removed. And now I will stop about this because I have other things on my mind like I said before. This issue is too silly for words. :wave:

MuranoJo · Dec 13, 2011

Margariet,
I'm not so sure they were referring to you.

TPU "inflation"... is it RCI or resort thinking boosting required TPUs?

Carolinian

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