Scottsdale Pinnacle Owners Assn. Annual Meeting

A week from today, I'll attend the annual Pinnacle Assn. HOA meeting at Sheraton Desert Oasis. Any specific questions you'd like me to ask?

We became owners at SDO 14 days ago!! Just ask them to please keep the MF's down

ded4025 said:

We became owners at SDO 14 days ago!! Just ask them to please keep the MF's down

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I 2nd that! Also, can you please post a short meeting summary here?
Some of us wish we could be there, but can't.

Quiet Pine said:

A week from today, I'll attend the annual Pinnacle Assn. HOA meeting at Sheraton Desert Oasis. Any specific questions you'd like me to ask?

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I would be interested in knowing the justification/rational for the premium paid in mf by the owners of 1 bedroom units. Here are the 2011 mf:

Sm. 1 Bdm. - $529.91
Lg. 1 Bdm. - $624.54
2 Bdm. L/O - $908.41

I think this differential really hurts the resale value of SDO 1 bedroom units.

The original CC&Rs had "proportionate shares" for the various unit types:

Annual Interval – Deluxe One Bedroom.................................63%

Annual Interval – Standard One Bedroom.............................37%

Annual Interval – Two Bedroom........................................100 %

Such that the Maintenance Fee of an Annual Interval – Two Bedroom shall be equal to the combined total Maintenance Fees of an Annual Interval-Deluxe One Bedroom and an Annual Interval – Standard One Bedroom.

Source: http://156.42.40.50/UnOfficialDocs/pdf/19980094372.pdf (p. 20). Tugger Nodge first posted this link in 2007 (http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=341833&postcount=6).

However, the CC&Rs were amended a short time later. The percentages of the various units were then changed to:

2 BR LO - basis for calculation
1 BR lg - 68.67% of the 2BR LO
1 BR sm - 58.37% of the 2BR LO

Source: Tugger Novagirl's post: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=389736&postcount=24

Thanks!

Glorian

I second clarification on the 1BR premiums being paid. Being a new SDO 1BR owner, this is one of the first things I wondered.

Thanks!

l2trade said:

Also, can you please post a short meeting summary here?

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Glad to do it. And I'll ask about 1BR MFs. Can't promise an answer, but I'll ask.

grgs said:

I would be interested in knowing the justification/rational for the premium paid in mf by the owners of 1 bedroom units. Here are the 2011 mf:
(...)
However, the CC&Rs were amended a short time later. The percentages of the various units were then changed to:

2 BR LO - basis for calculation
1 BR lg - 68.67% of the 2BR LO
1 BR sm - 58.37% of the 2BR LO

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I doubt there is any justification/rational we could get from the HOA. It is simply the rules in the CC&Rs. These amendments came way back when from the developer. It would be near impossible to change the rules now. How many two bedroom owners would vote to proportionally increase their contributions in the name of fairness? We rarely get enough votes to have an annual meeting quorum.

l2trade said:

I doubt there is any justification/rational we could get from the HOA.

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May be true, but it doesn't hurt to ask. It is different from other resorts that I'm familiar with.

l2trade said:

How many two bedroom owners would vote to proportionally increase their contributions in the name of fairness? We rarely get enough votes to have an annual meeting quorum.

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Would an amendment to the CC&Rs have to be voted on by the all the owners? Couldn't the Board decide to change the percentages? I'm not saying they would be likely to do that, but wondering if they could. Did the amendment get voted on in the first place? Or, it may be that it was changed before units were actually sold.

I would guess there are more 1 bedroom owners than 2 bedroom owners.

Glorian

please also check whether SDO will ever be invited into SVN. thanks

I, too, will be there.

My husband and I will be at SDO starting tomorrow! We were pleased that the owner's meeting would be held while we were there and hope to attend. Our intention is to "observe" and learn what we can about things that may be in SDO's future (we own five 1BR weeks so it matters to us).

Do I need anything to prove that I am an actual owner since I traded in for this trip?

lily28 said:

please also check whether SDO will ever be invited into SVN. thanks

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Yes, please ask if resale owners of SDO will be invited to join SVN!

Please also ask if current owners will be invited to purchase foreclosures like some other SVO property HOA's have recently done.

aeroflygirl said:

Please also ask if current owners will be invited to purchase foreclosures like some other SVO property HOA's have recently done.

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Actually, in the last newsletter it was mentioned that they had an agreement to allow SVO to resell the foreclosures at retail pricing; this would allow thoe POA to recoup money and maintain value (in their words).

It's a limited term agreement, and the POA has the option of getting any unsd inventory back at the end of the agreement term.

Glorian, ... The answer to your question about the allocation of the maintenance fees is that under State law if the allocations formula is in the declaration (and it always is), they must be be obeyed by the HOA until the owners change the formula. The HOA can't do anything about the formula. The owners can.

The reasons: certainty in operation funding, prevention of tinkering and, thereby, protection of owners. ... eom

jarta said:

Glorian, ... The answer to your question about the allocation of the maintenance fees is that under State law if the allocations formula is in the declaration (and it always is), they must be be obeyed by the HOA until the owners change the formula. The HOA can't do anything about the formula. The owners can.

The reasons: certainty in operation funding, prevention of tinkering and, thereby, protection of owners. ... eom

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Thanks for the info. I'd still like to know the original rational for the 1 bedroom owners in effect subsidizing the 2 bedroom owners, but I'm doubt I'll get an answer to that.

Of course, this is just one example of one set of owners subsidizing another. Others have argued that low season owners subsidize high season owners when everyone pays the same mf. I'm not sure I agree with that argument, since operating costs should be more or less the same regardless of season. It seems to be the operating costs of a small one bedroom & large one bedroom should be the same as a two bedroom LO. A small difference could be justified, I suppose, since you would have extra accounts to maintain with one bedroom owners, but the differential set by the SDO CC&Rs seems excessive to me.

Glorian

The disparity in MFs for SDO is the prime reason why I would likely only buy a 2-bed unit (which I'm considering at end of year...and perhaps give away / sell one/two of my others next year to reallocate for the next 5 years or so).

Glorian, ... "I'd still like to know the original rational for the 1 bedroom owners in effect subsidizing the 2 bedroom owners, but I'm doubt I'll get an answer to that."

The original developer probably wanted the 1-br owners to pay an estimated additional cost for administration of the resort. Records and reservations must be kept for 2 units rather than 1. Perhaps 2 cars, rather than 1, will be parked in the lot. Perhaps there will be more phone calls to the front desk from 2 units rather than 1. Maybe there was an assumption that the average number of persons using a 2-br reservation would be less than the average number of persons using 2 1-br reservations? Whatever?

Who's to say the number is not exactly "fair" or even all that oppressive now? Maybe the 2-brs are overpaying for administrative services when they pay exactly the same as the total of 2 1-brs? Square footage is very important, but need not be the sole factor used to allocate the expenses in gross. Buyers of any real estate governed by an association have a non-delegable duty to do their own DD on how the costs of the association are allocated.

1. Wanting a definite answer is understandable. But you will have to find someone from the original developer who had input into the decision (and is willing to discuss with you the "fairness" issue). The original developer was not Starwood.

2. The original reasons don't matter now. The allocation formula is set and can only be changed by the requisite vote of the owners. That number of owners might not see this as an issue that is really important to them in the bigger scheme of things (enjoying their SDO timeshare vacations) or worth the trouble to "correct" - assuming that's the proper word. ... eom

Since we are at that time of year, can someone attending the HOA meeting please ask for the breakdown of 2012 SDO MF for the annual 2 bedroom units? (anyone care to guess what the increase might be?)

Thanks!

sdo was asked to join the svo years ago.

I tried last year and was told that I could not join because I did not buy from the developer.

SO, how did the meeting go ????

maggiesmom

SDO Annual HOA Meeting

I ran a digital voice recorder and have an audio file for anyone who really, truly wants to hear. Can’t promise high-quality audio; lots of coughing, paper rustling, etc.

HOA meeting began at 1:00, adjourned at 1:40. Free cookies, popcorn, soda, water available. Main business was to elect two directors, then Q&A, then a Board meeting, then a seminar on how best to use ownership.

To start, Board members introduced themselves, then Starwood personnel (many from Orlando headquarters) introduced themselves.

Cassandra Wilkins, resort manager for 6 years, gave an update: SDO plans to reduce energy use 30% and water use 20% by 2020. They’ve increased recycling efforts. There are four computer desks in the lobby. WiFi, free in villas, is now 10X faster. Weekly activities calendar is now on MyStarCentral.

Delinquent owner situation is better. In 2010, new delinquent accounts were about 5%; in 2011, 2.8%. In 2011, $10 million in billings, $7 million collected as of August 31. Foreclosures cost about $500 each to process, then they’re owned by Pinnacle Assn. which is working with Starwood’s on-site sales team to sell weeks. Foreclosures won’t be offered to current owners.

Two directors on ballot were elected, then meeting was adjourned and Q&A began.

SDO is 12 years old and a major refurbishment is planned for 2013-2014. By 2014, it will be a whole new resort. There are $7 to $8 million in reserves and no special assessment is anticipated. Part of renovation will be $900,000 for Americans with Disabilities Act requirements for 2012 to avoid liability/lawsuits.

Resort attendance is very good. Occupancy rates are 92% for owners/traders and 88% for rentals.
2012 Maintenance Fees not known at this time. There will be an increase. First guess was $30, then guess was raised to possibly $65 (for 2BR). I didn’t ask why combined 1BR MFs are 127% of 2BR because it’s been discussed at length in this thread and it seems the current Board cannot influence the situation.

There’s no plan to invite Pinnacle owners to join SVN. There was an offer in 2001 at $75, and another offer in 2004 at $299.

I left after Q&A, didn't stay for rest of program.

II rep was in lobby with coupon for SDO owners: NEW membership in II, 2 years for price of 1, $89. Use promo code 93535NM. Valid until 12/31/11.

thank you very much for that brief.

Ditto.. Thanks for the brief... I have not been to SDO yet, but if I have any influence in the refurbishment, a "new" SDO should include a nice sit-down restaurant, not just a pool-side snackbar/restaurant. Knock out a building to make it happen. I will happily pay a special assessment to support this.

Quiet Pine -

Awesome job on the meeting summary! I'm glad to see Starwood corporate folks from Orlando take the time to meet and hear from SDO owners in person.

Which Starwood employees from Orlando corporate were present, in person, at the annual meeting? Did your audio recording capture their names?

Thank you!!!