Points presentation at MCV

My husband and I went to a points presentation at Canyon Villas last week.
I won't repeat what's already been discussed in detail about the program.
I own at Harbour Point (silver week bought resale from Marriott) and Sunset Pointe (platinum week bought resale externally). We were offered 1100 bonus points if we bought the minimum 1000 points for $9200. We could enroll our weeks for an additional $800. The point values given to my weeks are pitiful, and I also asked about the skimming of points. I was told that Marriott gave this a lot of thought before point values were assigned and they know exactly what they are doing.
When I told the sales rep. I don't even have enough points to get back into my platinum season, she said that we've had some really nice vacations in the last ten years, and now it's going to be more equitable for everyone. Basically, the entire presentation had the undertone of now it's time for all the resale buyers to pay up.
We don't exchange for points and we don't have lock-off fees. Therefore, what we would be saving just by enrolling our weeks and paying the annual membership fee is minimal. We would still be trading our weeks through Interval. In our opinion, this is just another revenue scheme for Marriott. I love Marriott, but what do we get in return for our $900? Hmmmm...I'm still thinking.

By the way, I also asked what happens if Marriott and the HOA decide to part ways down the road? What then? She said the only reason that's happened in the past is because the HOA didn't want to spend the money necessary to keep up to Marriott standards. She said it woud be ridiculous for any HOA to vote in that direction.
We politely declined.

We just had a presentation at the Ocean Club in Aruba July 2nd week. Good rep. Didn't push anything, and was in anyway insulting. Put it in context of buckets, which made it a little bit more understandable. We are interested in order to save money on trades and our lock-off. It would probably cost us a couple of hundred dollars a year less if we joined. However, we are not interested in the new points program, and intend to keep our deeded weeks. We got 15,000 Marriott points for attending the presentation. We'll do this again at the Monarch during Labor Day week; get another 15,000 points, and then join. We are major users of the points for the travel certificates.

Ricci said:

We don't exchange for points and we don't have lock-off fees. Therefore, what we would be saving just by enrolling our weeks and paying the annual membership fee is minimal. We would still be trading our weeks through Interval. In our opinion, this is just another revenue scheme for Marriott. I love Marriott, but what do we get in return for our $900? Hmmmm...I'm still thinking.

By the way, I also asked what happens if Marriott and the HOA decide to part ways down the road? What then? She said the only reason that's happened in the past is because the HOA didn't want to spend the money necessary to keep up to Marriott standards. She said it woud be ridiculous for any HOA to vote in that direction.
We politely declined.

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If that is your usage pattern for now and the future then it does not make sense for you to join. Your only potential value is if you wish to take advantage of the new opportunity for stays less than 7 days. You do not know how much it will cost to obtain this in the future, or if it will be offered. If you are not concerned about that then there is no reason to enroll.

I agree with the rep about leaving. That is exactly what happened at Streamside and the HOA delivered a special assessment, loss of Marriott exchange priority/benefits, and a resale value of $1. I doubt that many other HOAs will follow that path.

Ricci said:

. . . I own at Harbour Point (silver week bought resale from Marriott) and Sunset Pointe (platinum week bought resale externally). We were offered 1100 bonus points if we bought the minimum 1000 points for $9200. We could enroll our weeks for an additional $800. The point values given to my weeks are pitiful, and I also asked about the skimming of points. I was told that Marriott gave this a lot of thought before point values were assigned and they know exactly what they are doing.
When I told the sales rep. I don't even have enough points to get back into my platinum season, she said that we've had some really nice vacations in the last ten years, and now it's going to be more equitable for everyone. Basically, the entire presentation had the undertone of now it's time for all the resale buyers to pay up. . . .

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You ever get the impression that the Marriott sales people don't like us resale owners very much? Hmmmm. Where could I ever get an impression like that? Wow. Here is one good reason for enrolling: you get that big R off of your forehead! Now, I won't have to feel like I should shout UNCLEAN! UNCLEAN! when I attend the presentations!!

Ricci said:

My husband and I went to a points presentation at Canyon Villas last week.
I won't repeat what's already been discussed in detail about the program.
I own at Harbour Point (silver week bought resale from Marriott) and Sunset Pointe (platinum week bought resale externally). We were offered 1100 bonus points if we bought the minimum 1000 points for $9200. We could enroll our weeks for an additional $800. The point values given to my weeks are pitiful, and I also asked about the skimming of points. I was told that Marriott gave this a lot of thought before point values were assigned and they know exactly what they are doing.
When I told the sales rep. I don't even have enough points to get back into my platinum season, she said that we've had some really nice vacations in the last ten years, and now it's going to be more equitable for everyone. Basically, the entire presentation had the undertone of now it's time for all the resale buyers to pay up.
We don't exchange for points and we don't have lock-off fees. Therefore, what we would be saving just by enrolling our weeks and paying the annual membership fee is minimal. We would still be trading our weeks through Interval. In our opinion, this is just another revenue scheme for Marriott. I love Marriott, but what do we get in return for our $900? Hmmmm...I'm still thinking.

By the way, I also asked what happens if Marriott and the HOA decide to part ways down the road? What then? She said the only reason that's happened in the past is because the HOA didn't want to spend the money necessary to keep up to Marriott standards. She said it woud be ridiculous for any HOA to vote in that direction.
We politely declined.

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How many points will Marriott give a Platinum Sunset Point week? Does Sunset Point have a Platinum Season or does Marriott call the summer season something else? I'd expect Marriott to put far less value on a Sunset Point summer week then a summer week at Grande Ocean, given that Sunset Point is a distance from the ocean.

Are you surprised that your silver Harbor Pointe week commands few points?

I, personally, like the fact that Marriott has finally "weighted" their timeshare weeks, and has leveled the playing field. It made no sense to me that a winter season owner on Hilton Head had access to peak season inventory outside of flexchange.

EducatedConsumer said:

It made no sense to me that a winter season owner on Hilton Head had access to peak season inventory outside of flexchange.

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Didn't make much sense to me either, but it seemed to make sense to the Marriott salesman because he made sure to emphasize it during my presentation some years ago at Surfwatch.

Steve A said:

We got 15,000 Marriott points for attending the presentation. We'll do this again at the Monarch during Labor Day week; get another 15,000 points, and then join. We are major users of the points for the travel certificates.

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15,000 points? We were only offered 10,000!

I asked the Manor Club presenters if they were giving MR points to sit through a personal Points presentation and they just laughed and said no...unless I went for a complete tour, but as I already owned 3 of their plat weeks, I declined.

Brian

Cindala said:

15,000 points? We were only offered 10,000!

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20,000 given today at Marriott Kauai Lagoons. The poor girl had to sit thru 2 hours of my questions though.

EducatedConsumer said:

I, personally, like the fact that Marriott has finally "weighted" their timeshare weeks, and has leveled the playing field. It made no sense to me that a winter season owner on Hilton Head had access to peak season inventory outside of flexchange.

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I still don't understand this mentality. I don't mean to direct that specifically to you as I see it in these boards a lot. It seems that a lot of people have issue with those of us that "traded up".

We own two gold Orlando week that gets about 2K points each. Those each won't get much in the new system. In the old system we were able to get larger units and trade week for week in to Hawaii and Ocean Pointe. That can't happen in points.

However in the II week for week system, I merely picked up weeks that no one else wanted. If you had a stronger trader and wanted them, you would have gotten those weeks instead of me. Since I got them, that meant you didn't want them, so why do you care that I got those "trade up" weeks?. They otherwise would have become breakage and sat empty or gone to someone during flexchange.

If II opted to give me those larger units or better season weeks then they have to feel that my week was worthy.

Understand I am not directing this at you directly, just trying to put my view in perspective.

Ricci said:

My husband and I went to a points presentation at Canyon Villas last week.
I won't repeat what's already been discussed in detail about the program.
I own at Harbour Point (silver week bought resale from Marriott) and Sunset Pointe (platinum week bought resale externally). We were offered 1100 bonus points if we bought the minimum 1000 points for $9200. We could enroll our weeks for an additional $800. The point values given to my weeks are pitiful, and I also asked about the skimming of points. I was told that Marriott gave this a lot of thought before point values were assigned and they know exactly what they are doing.
When I told the sales rep. I don't even have enough points to get back into my platinum season, she said that we've had some really nice vacations in the last ten years, and now it's going to be more equitable for everyone. Basically, the entire presentation had the undertone of now it's time for all the resale buyers to pay up.
We don't exchange for points and we don't have lock-off fees. Therefore, what we would be saving just by enrolling our weeks and paying the annual membership fee is minimal. We would still be trading our weeks through Interval. In our opinion, this is just another revenue scheme for Marriott. I love Marriott, but what do we get in return for our $900? Hmmmm...I'm still thinking.

By the way, I also asked what happens if Marriott and the HOA decide to part ways down the road? What then? She said the only reason that's happened in the past is because the HOA didn't want to spend the money necessary to keep up to Marriott standards. She said it woud be ridiculous for any HOA to vote in that direction.
We politely declined.

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Sounds to me like you're one of those 80% owners that Marriott calculated wouldn't be joining the program. There's going to be a good number of existing owners where this program just won't work.

As to the salesmen telling owner that Marriott is leveling the playing field, I don't see how that's going to help them convince someone to join. You've had great exchanges for years so now it's payback time? What sort of sales line is that?

good evening!!!

way to go Dioxide!!! well said!!!

We went to a presentation at OceanWatch this past week and we were pleasantly surprised by a good rep and manager who didn't try to sell or gloss over our questions. We were intending on enrolling, but not at that moment; however, we genuinely liked the rep and felt like she was the best Marriott rep we'd come across so we enrolled with her.

She told us that she was aware of what I referenced as Marriott skimming points and that it was her understanding that Marriott knew what it was doing. She said that as it had been explained to her Marriott was factoring in the costs of the new program and in particular the fact that the legacy weeks owners have a lower MF than the new points owners and we can still reserve our home weeks without the necessity of using the points so nothing is being taken away from us.

When we asked questions - such as how the cruise points work if we want our kids to share a cabin or if the Marriott insurance plan we enrolled in shortly before the points program roll out - that she didn't know the answer to she said so and asked her manager who figured it out or told us he'd have to look into it. She did show us how the program worked and we had a discussion about whether it made sense for us to enroll and whether we should enroll some or all of our weeks.

We received the following answers to questions we posed:

1. Cruises: What is the cost for 4 people? They thought that we'd be better off booking two cabins on points than trying to put 4 people in one because they've been told that their is no reduction for the 3rd & 4th person in the room
2. Insurance: If you enrolled in Marriott's ProtectMe insurance program your points reservations will be covered assuming that you enrolled at a level sufficient to cover your MFs for all your weeks and any points you buy which in our case they thought was the $175.
3. Multiple strategies: Can you mix using weeks reservations and points in the same year? You can do an internal (no fee except for Club dues) or external exchange (pay II fee) with one or more weeks and use points from another week to lengthen the internal reservation or use points to make another reservation and bank any left over points (except Plus Points which must be used by 12/31/11) and use those points the following year for other reservations or tone of the larger
4. EOY Weeks: The points allocated to your week are split in half for determining your total yearly points for purposes of Premier and Premier Plus status because you can bank or borrow points - same reason you pay the Club Dues yearly even if you only own one EOY week.
5. Waiving enrollment fees: If we enroll and purchase 1000 or more points Marriott will waive $695 of the enrollment fee but not the $1300 portion attributable to those resale weeks.
   
   My husband and I looked at several ways to use the new program to meet our travel needs and we decided enrolling in the system worked for us. We exchange most of the time M to M and have two lockoff units plus our resale weeks will be grandfathered. Also we love to cruise and this option is much better than II's cruise exchange.
   
   Additionally after looking at all the available options I think we are going to purchase the points needed to get us to Premier Status because it amounts to buying the other half of our EOY week, something we were unable to find on the resale market (which we can't enroll now even if we find it). As we'd only be purchasing slightly over the intro points package the MF isn't horrible and we feel we'll be covered for quite some time - even accounting for the inevitable changes to the points charts.

Ricci said:

When I told the sales rep. I don't even have enough points to get back into my platinum season, she said that we've had some really nice vacations in the last ten years, and now it's going to be more equitable for everyone. Basically, the entire presentation had the undertone of now it's time for all the resale buyers to pay up.

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Remember, skimming was for everyone, resales and developer.

BTW, Dioxide, way to go. TUG is a very nice place with wonderful people, not a place for arrogance.

dioxide45 said:

I still don't understand this mentality. I don't mean to direct that specifically to you as I see it in these boards a lot. It seems that a lot of people have issue with those of us that "traded up".

We own two gold Orlando week that gets about 2K points each...........

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I'm in the same boat. I am just getting a feel for this new system and this is my take on it....Marriott's commanded a premium on II (and may still, depending on how much inventory II has down the road). I think Marriott is trying to "level the playing field" on Marriott to Marriott exchanges. I have a Grand Vista which has traded well (I try to reserve a good week). I also have 2 Hawaii units, which, so far have made me sick to exchange. Why? Because I am paying a HUGE maint. fee for them and they are in high demand. I am trading down for most vacations at a steep cost (both in maint and in buy-in price). Now it seems fairer for internal trades (although they seem to have taken away the potential advantage of booking a good week with points trades). However, I believe I can still book a good week, see what it might bring on II then later covert to points and drop that week. The potential problem for us without super high-demand resorts is how the new points system may reduce our chances of getting a Marriott exchange someplace else. The 199.00 fee, for me, is a sweet deal. I spend more than that every year on II dues and fees.

Pooints presentation tidbit

We also attended a points presentation at MOW over the weekend, and most of the info I've seen discussed here was presented there.

HOWEVER, the new tidbit, which I either didn't comprehend before or which was never presented before here, is this: if you are weeks owner and you enroll, then you convert one or more weeks to points, you may redeem those points ONLY for the following: anything in the World Vacation Collection (like cruises and tours), and locations related to points deposited in the "points inventory bucket" by other weeks owners.

In other words, you will NOT have access to the "weeks" in the points inventory which came from the trust, like unsold weeks from Marco Island and Oceana Plams, and, of course, Kauai Lagoons and any other resorts yet to be built. To get access to those resorts, you have to a buy a minimal number of points (currently 1000). Then your points from any converted weeks can be redeemed for any resorts in the poiints inventory bucket.

Don't know if we just missed this nuance before, or if it was not brought up before, but this really opened our eyes. We still didn't buy any points, but now we are considering it, which we weren't before.

Did we just miss this? :zzz:

Ricci said:

We were offered 1100 bonus points if we bought the minimum 1000 points for $9200.

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Is the $9200/1000 points the going rate for the new points system or does it change by resort/season?

tiel said:

HOWEVER, the new tidbit, which I either didn't comprehend before or which was never presented before here, is this: if you are weeks owner and you enroll, then you convert one or more weeks to points, you may redeem those points ONLY for the following: anything in the World Vacation Collection (like cruises and tours), and locations related to points deposited in the "points inventory bucket" by other weeks owners.

In other words, you will NOT have access to the "weeks" in the points inventory which came from the trust, like unsold weeks from Marco Island and Oceana Plams, and, of course, Kauai Lagoons and any other resorts yet to be built. To get access to those resorts, you have to a buy a minimal number of points (currently 1000). Then your points from any converted weeks can be redeemed for any resorts in the poiints inventory bucket.
Don't know if we just missed this nuance before, or if it was not brought up before, but this really opened our eyes. We still didn't buy any points, but now we are considering it, which we weren't before.

Did we just miss this? :zzz:

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Or... is this really true???

dioxide45 said:

I still don't understand this mentality. I don't mean to direct that specifically to you as I see it in these boards a lot. It seems that a lot of people have issue with those of us that "traded up".

We own two gold Orlando week that gets about 2K points each. Those each won't get much in the new system. In the old system we were able to get larger units and trade week for week in to Hawaii and Ocean Pointe. That can't happen in points.

However in the II week for week system, I merely picked up weeks that no one else wanted. If you had a stronger trader and wanted them, you would have gotten those weeks instead of me. Since I got them, that meant you didn't want them, so why do you care that I got those "trade up" weeks?. They otherwise would have become breakage and sat empty or gone to someone during flexchange.

If II opted to give me those larger units or better season weeks then they have to feel that my week was worthy.

Understand I am not directing this at you directly, just trying to put my view in perspective.

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I don't think anyone has an issue with trading up, but you have to be realistic about it. Some people are screaming about the new system as if it is some kind of moral outrage and denial of their rights to trade their $10k week for a $40k week "like the salesman promised".

Although the points system directly negatively effects me, I think it is hypocritical to feel outraged. The old system was used to benefit a small number of owners at the expense of the majority. Whether it was through lack of understanding, flexibility, resourcefulness, etc. does not really matter. Every uptrade requires a downtrade. It is a zero sum system.

When Marriott sold every week for approximately the same $$$ then the weeks were truly comparable. When Marriott sold weeks during the real estate boom for 40, 50, even 80+k per week then my Horizons gold is truly not comparable.

I understand why Marriott wants to take better control of its inventory and wants to reset trading on a more comparable basis. They want to maximize the perceived 'fairness' for everyone, but especially for the people who spent the big bucks directly with them. I believe the new points charts are a more direct relationship to the relative values of the week.

Tuggers have always know that July 4th was worth a lot more than Nov 3rd even though they are both Platinum. We reaped that value from the other owners. Now there is another system where the values are available for anyone to see. This creates new opportunities, which is why I will enroll and keep my options open, but it is just a different way to distribute the value over more owners. The weeks will now go to those willing to PAY for them, vs. those who get lucky or get an II rep who wants to earn a commission. I believe that is why Marriott is doing it, not some evil scheme.

Chip said:

Is the $9200/1000 points the going rate for the new points system or does it change by resort/season?

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There is no more resort/season. Points are in a trust and all have the same price/maint fee associated with it.

MikeM132 said:

The 199.00 fee, for me, is a sweet deal. I spend more than that every year on II dues and fees.

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As I understand it, this will be a "corporate account" similar to Starwood, that can only be used for enrolled Marriott weeks - so if you have any other ownerships or un-enrolled Marriott weeks that trade thru II, you will still need a 'regular' II account.

I bought a resale from Marriott.....and now with the points system, I can't even book a different week into my OWN resort in my designated season. How fair is that? Marriott is a business and this a just another way to generate revenue. Bottom line. Fairness has nothing to do with it.

Ricci said:

I bought a resale from Marriott.....and now with the points system, I can't even book a different week into my OWN resort in my designated season. How fair is that? Marriott is a business and this a just another way to generate revenue. Bottom line. Fairness has nothing to do with it.

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Ricci, did you buy a fixed week? If you own a floating week (as most Marriott time shares are), why would you use destination points to reserve your week at your home resort in your season? You can get the week you were promised (subject to the availability issues that always existed) without using destination points.

It's different, of course, if you own a fixed week. But even there, you bought the right to that week -- not a right to any week in the season.

We attended 2 presentations when in Hawaii early last month. One at Kauai lagoons just ONE day before the switch over, and got the same old spiel about buying weeks, EXCEPT we had to do so today because the new system was going in place. Now, why would we buy, not knowing what comparison to make to the new system?? When we moved onto Koa Olina we were one of the first to hear about the new system. Basically, the same presentation as reported by others on this board.

We should have bought! They were offering 1 wk 2 BR around $45k with 2 daily rounds of golf. What a view!

Many questions linger about the new system, but here are some thoughts.

Look at Post #16. We were lead to believe, any new sales will be in "club" points (that's what they are calling them) Yes, Marco Island and Oceana Palms, as well as the new tower in Koa Olina, and Kauai lagoons will have to be in the new system. I think it will take a while before new inventory catches up with the old. I think you can try and trade into through II. Also, I was not aware that you had to purchase a min # of points to gain access to the new system. We were lead to believe that our existing properties would convert to the points in the new system.

They are selling the new system as a 4th dimension. Existing owners have all the same, except a new 4th option to use their vacation props.

One question though, as an existing owner, I have a real estate deed on my 2Marriott properties and pay an annual maintenance fee that covers taxes, insurance, etc, etc. I understand this will continue. I assumed from the presentation I heard, that I would be given this 4th option to use as exchanging my existing units for the club points to use in the following year. Have to make choice by EOY on whether to exchange or not. Can anyone confirm this?

Club points convert to rewards points at a 32 X 1 ratio

Club points (which are really an interest in a real estate trust as we understand it) have an annual maintenance fee of 40 cents on the dollar.

Oh, one annual fee of $168 covers all the others (II annual fee, exchange fees, lockoff fees, cancel fees, etc) Apparently this is a big gripe of owners getting nickle and dimed on fees.

Club points are sold at min 1,000 and in 250 increments thereafter.

We have the impression that owners intend to use their trade a weekly blocks, it may make sense to wait and observe a bit before switching to the new system. I think it is a preference and how folks intend use their weeks.

Regards

Is post 16 above correct?

I've been to a sales presentation and they said legacy weeks trading for points have the same access to all resorts (now and even future ones to be built) that the new points buyers have. The sales man said "points are points" and there would be not difference. Now Tiel in the above post says that that isn't true- has anyone else heard this? If it is true then that would be a big negative for legacy owners who convert. I have to say that I think this was just a sales person spinning things a bit but wonder if others have heard this too.

tlwmkw