Marriott Destination Points...They have done it!!!!!! {Merged}

hipslo said:

Were they actually able to say this with a staright face?
Again, its no wonder that fletch left.

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Oh yea. I spoke with a rep, and a "point specialist," yesterday, and they both suggested that I buy more points.

Very nice........I buy 2 weeks directly from Marriott, and now can not exchange back in to either of them unless I pay an additional $9,200, and $400 more in maintenance fees.

BTW, they weren't even willing to allow me to purchase just the number of points that I would need to exchange back into my resorts. Nope, minimum of 1000 points.

Wow what a confused mess created by Marriott! As a Marriott purchased multiweek owner whose email address they know well, I would think I would have gotten the courtesy of getting an explanation in clear and simple, non-used car dealer format, on the program change.
A simpler format would have been for Marriott to use the new set of rules going forward in new developments rather than discredit their timeshare franchise as they have with poor or nonexistant communications.
Anyway, "where there is smoke there is fire" so anyone in his/her right mind have to regard this topic with suspicion and do at the very least nothing until the dust settles. At this point I would certainly make no changes and pay Marriott no fees on a program/new points they can manipulate even more than the old one, it appears to be a sucker bet:rofl:

SMB1 said:

Just curious...If Marriott had made it so that weeks owners who enroll had to book their week first then give it up for a # of points based on the week reserverd (so now you are not getting the average points for the season) and some are getting more points than others for their same resort/season (even though they paid the same for their unit and pay the same maintenance fee), ala redweek, would we have more people happy about the new program or still have people complaining that they are getting ripped off. In this senario we would still have everyone competing to reserve the best weeks just to trade or convert to points, which is brings us back to what his post started with.

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If Marriott wanted to assign points fairly ALL platinum weeks of the same unit type at the same resort would have been assigned the same number of points (ex 5000 for garden view 2 bed). All owners of garden view 2 bed platinum weeks would receive 5000 points annully (exactly what Marriott charges to stay in the unit you deposit) and reservations for ALL platinum 2 bed garden view weeks at that resort would cost 5000 points to exchange for. It will be first come first served just like it has always been and will always be. Whether they charge 6000 points for 4th of July or 5000 points, the weeks will go to the first few points members to be on the phone the first minute of the first morning regardless of what marriott charges for the prime weeks. To say that by charging higher points for prime weeks that they are helping owners in some way is a lie promoted to skim profits and sell more points to owners who can't even afford to reserve a week in their season.

Since all platinum week owners now have access to all platinum weeks (not just shoulder weeks) based on availability, that ability to reserve ANY platinum week should not be taken away by "flexibility" of the points program! Marriott now has assigned points to certain Platinum weeks that NO platinum owner ever gets enough points to exchange for, and in some cases NO platinum owners are even assigned enough points to reserve a week in their platinum season at their home resort.

Marriott designed the program where owners get less points for their deposit than it takes to exchange for it to force owners to buy more points and to make profit by skimming points off the top. Whether the currency is points or cash, if you pay the person you get your inventory from less (points or cash) than you charge the person who rents the identical inventory from you for, you have made a profit. When owners have paid $20,000 or more for a week suddenly realze that they will not able to get anything but downtrades using their annual points assignment (not enough points to get like for like or uptrades), many will panic and gladly pay $9000 or more to not lose the trading power they are accustomed to using their high dollar investment.

Call Marriott, express your concern that you don't get enough points to trade each year for like units that are assigned the exact same point value as what you deposit and wait for the concern in their voice (I am still waiting and I got off the phone yesterday). You will be informed that yes under the new program you need to spend about $9000 to be able to have enough points to reserve units with identical point values to what you currently own. They will inform you that if you don't buy more points you can still use your home resort. Doesn't that just leave you with that warm fuzzy feeling for Marriott?

What a deal. No more uptrades ever, no more like for like trades unless you pay to buy more points, you are only guaranteed downtrades with your points. So what you had is gone and from now on unless you are willing to pay the extortion you will get your home resort (fighting against everyone including points members for the best in season weeks) or down trades.

I guess the flexibility Marriott touts is that you have to be more flexible on where and when you are willing to vacation because you will no longer have access to all the weeks and resorts you are used to getting with your week.

wsrobinson said:

Don't the 800 points they give you initially have some value? As such, it throws your equation off. I can make a decent case they're worth an easy 1K based on what I've seen. I plan on using mine to book a 4-5 night stay off-season at Manor Club. At $250/night, that's $1000 or $1250 depending on nights. I actually have points left over as it's 100 pts/night.

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You could rent an off season week at Manor Club for far less than $250 per night. II generally has Getaways to MMC for around $500 per week for a two bedroom during the off season.

i am able to often get (1) two bedroom for Marriott Manor club/williamsburg,VA for 7 nights thru interval for $109 in october, which is very very slow season.
$109 total for 7 nights (1) two bedroom.
They will give me a double trade, just pay $109 Marriott exchange fee again.

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I still have not received any official notification from MVCI about the change. Has anyone?

gmarine said:

You could rent an off season week at Manor Club for far less than $250 per night. II generally has Getaways to MMC for around $500 per week for a two bedroom during the off season.

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Unfortunately, I'm talking about Thanksgiving week so you cannot get availability through II.

1965 said:

i am able to often get (1) two bedroom for Marriott Manor club/williamsburg,VA for 7 nights thru interval for $109 in october, which is very very slow season.
$109 total for 7 nights (1) two bedroom.
They will give me a double trade, just pay $109 Marriott exchange fee again.

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You gave up a week and paid $109. It didn't cost you $109 to go to Manor Club in Oct. Getaways for 2 bedrroms start in the $550 range.

JimC said:

I still have not received any official notification from MVCI about the change. Has anyone?

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My point allocations were a mistake (at 5750) and they revised them downward to 4200 (as Dean and Sue suggested they would).

Go direct and save.

1965 said:

i am able to often get (1) two bedroom for Marriott Manor club/williamsburg,VA for 7 nights thru interval for $109 in october, which is very very slow season.
$109 total for 7 nights (1) two bedroom.
They will give me a double trade, just pay $109 Marriott exchange fee again.

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The change that will occur at II hasn't registered with most yet. The vast majority of what II had to offer has been fed to them from Marriott from unsold developer inventory NOT individual deposits from owners. That flow has ended and redirected to the Marriott Points system as the backbone of inventory there (which should offer some idea of how significant the numbers are - Fletch has said it is >25% of all time in the system). Losing that source will cripple availability overall of Marriott weeks at II. The individual deposits have always been limited and would tend to be the more desirable times. But they also have the bigger demand. They always got snapped up - that won't change but the number of requests for them will also be on the rise. Add in the apparent ability of Marriott Points to dip into the II pool as a priority owner and again the weeks actually available to members at II goes down.

Look for getaways to dry up as every available week will suddenly become "hot" in II as the supply drops off sharply while demand spikes. In the next few months the new pattern of very limited availability of Marriott weeks at II should become the norm and it isn't ever going to go back to the level of pre-June 2010. Direct trades between Marriott owners would appear to be the best way to go for "traditional" Marriott owners going forward. More cost effective too.

Can you really use the 800 points?

wsrobinson said:

Don't the 800 points they give you initially have some value? As such, it throws your equation off. I can make a decent case they're worth an easy 1K based on what I've seen. I plan on using mine to book a 4-5 night stay off-season at Manor Club. At $250/night, that's $1000 or $1250 depending on nights. I actually have points left over as it's 100 pts/night.

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From their enrollment documents, it looks like we may not be able to use the 800 points if we don't also give them our 2011 year for points. Andif you can use them, they may cost you?

"An Exchange Member who does not make a Deposit in a given calendar year is not entitled to utilize Single Use Points in such calendar year. The ability to utilize Single Use Points for reservations may not be available for all Accommodations. If Single Use Points are used to make a reservation, additional fees may be required to complete the reservation. The rights reserved to Exchange Company in this paragraph may be assigned by Exchange Company."

banquopack said:

From their enrollment documents, it looks like we may not be able to use the 800 points if we don't also give them our 2011 year for points. Andif you can use them, they may cost you?

"An Exchange Member who does not make a Deposit in a given calendar year is not entitled to utilize Single Use Points in such calendar year. The ability to utilize Single Use Points for reservations may not be available for all Accommodations. If Single Use Points are used to make a reservation, additional fees may be required to complete the reservation. The rights reserved to Exchange Company in this paragraph may be assigned by Exchange Company."

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One has nothing to do with the other. Sign up and the 800 points are your immediately to do with as you please. The stmt you pasted has to do with recieving an allotment of points for a given year.

floyddl said:

I own fixed week at a resort with only one fixed week. Yet I am offered 5250 for a week that it takes 5400 to reserve. While I understand your point on spreading the total over a season there is really no good reason to devalue a week that is a season to itself.

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Marriott is charging for the added perks and flexibility you have gained.

no Interval International membership fee
no exchange fees
no lock off fees
no change of reservation fees
no conversion to rewards pts fees
no fees to use club pts by the day
no fees to check in any day of the week
no fees to extend your usage til next year
no fees to borrow from next year

Imagine Newport coast for three days, and then KoOlina for four days, and then Kauai Beach Club for three days, or better yet, KoOlina for five days and Kauai Beach Club for five days - no fee!

wsrobinson said:

My point allocations were a mistake (at 5750) and they revised them downward to 4200 (as Dean and Sue suggested they would).

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This makes much more sense to me now. I thought you had something of a hidden gem that others had no clue of.

wsrobinson said:

One has nothing to do with the other. Sign up and the 800 points are your immediately to do with as you please. The stmt you pasted has to do with recieving an allotment of points for a given year.

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Are you sure? I think the 800 points fall under their heading of promotional "single use points". I didn't see where they said they were for use even if you didn't deposit at least one week.

banquopack said:

Are you sure? I think the 800 points fall under their heading of promotional "single use points". I didn't see where they said they were for use even if you didn't deposit at least one week.

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Well, as with all things. Take it with a grain of salt. I asked the VOA last night this exact question about using the points. She said they would be in my account almost immediately and availble for use whenever I wanted.

thinze3 said:

Marriott is charging for the added perks and flexibility you have gained.

no Interval International membership fee
no exchange fees
no lock off fees
no change of reservation fees
no conversion to rewards pts fees
no fees to use club pts by the day
no fees to check in any day of the week
no fees to extend your usage til next year
no fees to borrow from next year

Imagine Newport coast for three days, and then KoOlina for four days, and then Kauai Beach Club for three days, or better yet, KoOlina for five days and Kauai Beach Club for five days - no fee!

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Marriott is charging an entry fee, as well as a yearly fee for the above services, no?

Also, if that were the case, shouldn't we all be paying the same amount, in cash, not an unknown amount of points per week?

I am amazed - pricing structure actually FAVORS exisiting resale owners

I have been thinking a lot about the new system, and, while I dont like it and would prefer that things simply remain as they are, it seems to me that, if all goes as planned by Marriott (a big "if"), over time, the new system could potentially become "the" system. That remains to be seen, but it is at least a possibility.

I currently own 5 weeks, all purchased resale. The amount of money that I saved by buying resale, rather than directly from Marriott, is roughly $80,000.

So, how do I fare, compared to the loyal direct purchaser of those very same weeks, who has shelled out $80,000 more than I have? Why, it costs me a whopping $1,300 more to enroll my ownership in the new program than it costs the direct purchaser of the very same weeks. Once I enroll, the direct purchaser and I appear to stand on the exact same footing, in all respects, going forward.

Now, as I said, I dont like the new program. But Marriott is telling me that I have the right to buy in and "cleanse" my existing resale status for only $1,300 more than it costs a direct buyer of the very same weeks to enroll. It seems to me that it would be rather imprudent not to take them up on this offer. Even if I never intend to use points after enrolling. After all, if things change, going forward, I suppose it is possible that even the currently grandfathered resale owners might no longer have the ability to enroll. For $1,300, why wouldnt I want to arrange to have myself treated in the same manner as someone who spent $80,000 more than I did for the exact same bundle of rights?

The flip side of this, of course, is the breathtaking disregard that marriott is showing their loyal multiple platinum high cost direct purchasers, when compared to what they are charging resale purchasers of the same weeks to enroll.

hipslo said:

I have been thinking a lot about the new system, and, while I dont like it and would prefer that things simply remain as they are, it seems to me that, if all goes as planned by Marriott (a big "if"), over time, the new system could potentially become "the" system. That remains to be seen, but it is at least a possibility.

I currently own 5 weeks, all purchased resale. The amount of money that I saved by buying resale, rather than directly from Marriott, is roughly $80,000.

So, how do I fare, compared to the loyal direct purchaser of those very same weeks, who has shelled out $80,000 more than I have? Why, it costs me a whopping $1,300 more to enroll my ownership in the new program than it costs the direct purchaser of the very same weeks. Once I enroll, the direct purchaser and I appear to stand on the exact same footing, in all respects, going forward.

Now, as I said, I dont like the new program. But Marriott is telling me that I have the right to buy in and "cleanse" my existing resale status for only $1,300 more than it costs a direct buyer of the very same weeks to enroll. It seems to me that it would be rather imprudent not to take them up on this offer. Even if I never intend to use points after enrolling. After all, if things change, going forward, I suppose it is possible that even the currently grandfathered resale owners might no longer have the ability to enroll. For $1,300, why wouldnt I want to arrange to have myself treated in the same manner as someone who spent $80,000 more than I did for the exact same bundle of rights?

The flip side of this, of course, is the breathtaking disregard that marriott is showing their loyal multiple platinum high cost direct purchasers, when compared to what they are charging resale purchasers of the same weeks to enroll.

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An excellent point and one not lost on ME!

ArtsieAng said:

Marriott is charging an entry fee, as well as a yearly fee for the above services, no?

Also, if that were the case, shouldn't we all be paying the same amount, in cash, not an unknown amount of points per week?

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Entry fee - yes, but worth it.
I get to convert a BeachPlace Towers platinum unit which cost me about $6500 resale that would have cost over $30K from the developer, essentially back into a developer unit. This unit will now offer me 110K MR points if I choose. I personally think this system is a steal for resale owners.

Membership fees - yes, but worth it.
Scratch the II fees off my list and everything else is what you pay for in the diminished club points.

Same amount "yearly" in cash - no.
Why should someone who owns and uses 6 timeshares, and all the new perks that go with it, pay the same as someone who only owns and uses two timeshares. If Marriott had added a $150 per unit fee vs a 3-5% deduction in club points, there would have been blood in the streets. IMO

It hasn't happened yet but someday someone will say "I should have paid more" Right.

hipslo said:

I have been thinking a lot about the new system, and, while I dont like it and would prefer that things simply remain as they are, it seems to me that, if all goes as planned by Marriott (a big "if"), over time, the new system could potentially become "the" system. That remains to be seen, but it is at least a possibility.

I currently own 5 weeks, all purchased resale. The amount of money that I saved by buying resale, rather than directly from Marriott, is roughly $80,000.

So, how do I fare, compared to the loyal direct purchaser of those very same weeks, who has shelled out $80,000 more than I have? Why, it costs me a whopping $1,300 more to enroll my ownership in the new program than it costs the direct purchaser of the very same weeks. Once I enroll, the direct purchaser and I appear to stand on the exact same footing, in all respects, going forward.

Now, as I said, I dont like the new program. But Marriott is telling me that I have the right to buy in and "cleanse" my existing resale status for only $1,300 more than it costs a direct buyer of the very same weeks to enroll. It seems to me that it would be rather imprudent not to take them up on this offer. Even if I never intend to use points after enrolling. After all, if things change, going forward, I suppose it is possible that even the currently grandfathered resale owners might no longer have the ability to enroll. For $1,300, why wouldnt I want to arrange to have myself treated in the same manner as someone who spent $80,000 more than I did for the exact same bundle of rights?

The flip side of this, of course, is the breathtaking disregard that marriott is showing their loyal multiple platinum high cost direct purchasers, when compared to what they are charging resale purchasers of the same weeks to enroll.

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Pretty good analysis of the situation. As usual it is tough to find any way that paying retail for any system/resort turns out to favor the buyer. On the other hand it is extremely rare that a resale purchaser later has the V8 moment & slaps their head shouting "What was I thinking? I should have paid RETAIL!" :rofl:

thinze3 said:

Marriott is charging for the added perks and flexibility you have gained.

no Interval International membership fee
no exchange fees
no lock off fees
no change of reservation fees
no conversion to rewards pts fees
no fees to use club pts by the day
no fees to check in any day of the week
no fees to extend your usage til next year
no fees to borrow from next year

Imagine Newport coast for three days, and then KoOlina for four days, and then Kauai Beach Club for three days, or better yet, KoOlina for five days and Kauai Beach Club for five days - no fee!

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They have built in their fees. Everytime you deposit a week into points they skim points off the top which is a fee (or profit whichever you prefer). When you exchange for a lockoff, the sum of the two lockoffs is a much higher point total than the points required to rent the whole 2 bed room week, so they are charging more points for that, so yes there is a lockoff fee. If you use points for daily stays, the sum of the daily points are much higher than the points required for a weeks stay, so they are charging fees for daily stays too. By not specifically charging x$ per lock off or daily stay it can be sold as free to members, but if you compare what your points outlay is for lock-offs and nightly stays versus a week in the same unit, you are paying a hefty fee in additonal points charged by Marriott to get "flexibility".

Marriott is charging you to convert,they will probably start raising annual MF's, they are charging you an annual membership fee, and they skim points every time you deposit and exchange. Marriott is not doing any of the wonderful flexibility options they tout for free, they are charging you each and every time you want to be flexible and use your points to exchange!

Imagining Newport for 3 prime season days, followed by 3 days at this hawaai resort followed by 4 days at another will IMO be just that, imagining. Every person they sell the points to will be assured that getting those things will be easy, but most if not all prime inventory will be reserved for a whole week before those wanting shorter stays ever get a chance at less than 7 day inventory. In the beginning there will probably be access to less than 7 day stays at prime resorts during prime seasons, but after they sell and convert a ton of people to points the competition will be so intense that getting any prime days/weeks will be hard. In fact I bet that it will be much harder to get prime weeks/locations than before points because Marriott will be able to sell those shoulder weeks as points allowing more people to compete for the prime limited inventory, because points is points no matter where they come from.

Exactly. This was the purpose of the posts. Marriott MUST charge points since they are not charging dollars.

thinze3 said:

Entry fee - yes, but worth it.
I get to convert a BeachPlace Towers platinum unit which cost me about $6500 resale that would have cost over $30K from the developer, essentially back into a developer unit. This unit will now offer me 110K MR points if I choose. I personally think this system is a steal for resale owners.

Membership fees - yes, but worth it.
Scratch the II fees off my list and everything else is what you pay for in the diminished club points.

Same amount "yearly" in cash - no.
Why should someone who owns and uses 6 timeshares, and all the new perks that go with it, pay the same as someone who only owns and uses two timeshares. If Marriott had added a $150 per unit fee vs a 3-5% deduction in club points, there would have been blood in the streets. IMO

Click to expand...

no Interval International membership fee
no exchange fees
no lock off fees
no change of reservation fees
no conversion to rewards pts fees
no fees to use club pts by the day
no fees to check in any day of the week
no fees to extend your usage til next year
no fees to borrow from next year

Click to expand...

They shouldn't.....Just as I pay in the old system to exchange my week, or lock-off my week, or exchange my week for points, on a per week basis, Marriott should charge on a per week basis for any of the above services not covered by the yearly fee.

Based on your analogy, why should I pay in points reduction to my week for all the above usage possibilities, if I'm only going to exchange my week into another week for a 7 day interval ?