Marriott Destination Points...They have done it!!!!!! {Merged}

scrapngen · Jun 20, 2010

Numismatist said:
Is this true?:

OTHER than the $595 to join, if I NEVER choose to exchange my deeded week for points each year, have I lost anything?

No, it is NOT true.

You will lose a yearly fee ($165 or more) for being in the new point system even if you choose not to exchange.

wuv pooh · Jun 20, 2010

scrapngen said:
But it will also cost $165 or more per year. You didn't add this into your equation. It may or may not be a wash depending on what additional fees you currently spend - PER YEAR. So it may be a wash for some if they always are locking-off, etc., but for others, it is locking yourself into another yearly fee. (small, but not insignificant if you are not currently paying it)

True. If you never trade then it is an additional cost, but you can avoid that by just using anyway. if you want to exchange, by the time I pay II $80 to join, plus $75 to lock off, plus $29 to move my reservation, Plus $109 to make a trade etc. it comes off cheaper to start. Whether they increase faster than the current system is unknown.

taffy19 · Jun 20, 2010

larue said:
Owner services told me that, as a resale owner, I would be allowed to trade for Marriott Reward Points if I enroll in the new system.

It's in black and white somewhere.

pfrank4127 · Jun 20, 2010

timeos2 said:
You do understand that under the new system, as in any points system, the range of weeks covered by a deeded ownership include some that will carry high point values - holidays, summer weeks - and some lower but still in that season as originally outlined. So while your deed has the right to reserve one of the higher point value weeks you cannot and do not get that value every year. Instead they take the TOTAL points generated for all weeks in that season, divide by the total use periods & the resulting average per week is what you receive. So you are getting a fair distribution of point value covering your true share based on the week / season purchased. To further ensure that you get what you have coming they also do not charge you the actual "outside" value for those weeks - even the higher point value ones - if you use your own resort. You get the time for the value of your deeded ownership (and actually don't even have to use points to do that).

Once you step outside your home resort you do need to pay the true rate. You can easily do that by pooling, borrowing, renting or just owning more points than your original deed entitled you to. Now by carefully spreading those points through all the process and all the options it should be possible to get the exact use you want at various resorts and maximize the value of what you own. That is what we have found with other points based exchanges and no reason to think Marriott would work any differently.

You are getting a fair shake. The days of playing the system for free upgrades goes away. A known value system with hopefully better access to desired times (as owners are more careful with what they spend their limited points for rather than grabbing the best and biggest even just to trade) is what a good points system buys you. It does cost more than the old place & hope weeks type trades but is far easier to utilize and understand for most buyers. More like hotel reservations.

Excellent summary! Thanks

timeos2 · Jun 20, 2010

Promises promises

SueDonJ said:
Perry, I might be interested if you will have access to official Marriott info, as well as sanctions from Marriott to disseminate whatever info you'll be offering AND a guarantee that what you're offering can be considered official. ??? But if not, won't your webinar info be worth as much as every other bit of unofficial info?

Be very careful about anything that gets offered. Back in the hey day there were offers of papers & detailed analysis of why there were great deals & profits to be made in condo hotels (or maybe it was vacation destination clubs - I forget now) and even renting the colossal flop Tower of Terror as a business that never came to be (plenty had said they signed on but nothing ever got sent out). This sounds very familiar. Hopefully no money is involved.

UK Fan · Jun 20, 2010

Rickh said:
Please forgive me if this has been covered - I am trying to clarify my understanding of the maintenance fee increase for existing owners - some have suggested the new maintenance fee will be .40 per point, which is a huge increase relative to what we pay today (we own a 2 bedroom OV at original MOC).

I online chatted with Owner Services, and they suggested that maintenance fees will increase as per inflation and costs to run resort, but not just because a current owner joins the point program.

Does the .40 per point only apply to new purchases or am I missing something.

Thanks for clarifying.

As I understand it, the 0.40/per point applies to new point sales.

IngridN · Jun 20, 2010

Numismatist said:
Is this true?:

OTHER than the $595 to join, if I NEVER choose to exchange my deeded week for points each year, have I lost anything?

That's the answer I'm getting, but I'm leary.

Ingrid

IngridN · Jun 20, 2010

scrapngen said:
No, it is NOT true.

You will lose a yearly fee ($165 or more) for being in the new point system even if you choose not to exchange.

Not necessarily. If you chose to join points, but continue to deposit in II, the only fee will be if you choose a non-Marriott property. If it's a Marriott property, there is no exchange fee. Also, you will not have the cost of the yearly II membership fee.

Ingrid

pfrank4127 · Jun 20, 2010

IngridN said:
That's the answer I'm getting, but I'm leary.

Ingrid

You still have to pay the yearly club fee $169 for 1 week.

What are Club Dues?

Once you enroll, reservation and usage fees such as locking off, membership with Interval International and trading for Marriott Rewards points will be consolidated into one annual, convenient fee called Club Dues. Club Dues are initially set at $165 if you own or have enrolled up to 6,499 Vacation Club Points. Club Dues are initially set at $199 if you own or have enrolled 6,500 or more Vacation Club Points.

UK Fan · Jun 20, 2010

wuv pooh said:
That would make sense to me. I am essentially offered to join the system for free today - $695 vs. 800 points is a wash to me. I am concerned about the future.

If you do not join the new system:

1. You will not have access to any new resorts.
2. You will not have the access to the flexibility which creates the value under the new system, ie trading days, sizes, or seasons.
3. You may/may not be offered to join in the future at some price.

I think it was a pretty slick move to eliminate uptrades.

II uptrades will dry up because people with high value weeks will join the new system and remove their weeks.

II uptrades will dry up because all develper and MR points inventory will be removed.

Points uptrades are eliminated by the new point structure.

I see only two options:

1. Don't join and use your weeks. Or be happy with non Marriott trades through II.

2. Join for free and keep your flexibility. The real value of the new system will be using Sun-Thur in shoulder season until they rebalance the points. There will also most likely be something similar to flexchange added to soak up points that are expiring as empty units.

I think it is a slam dunk that most people with Platinum weeks will convert to keep their options open.

Need to talk to a few more people, but that is my initial take.

I know it's early, but my thoughts now are not to join. I own a Platinum week at OceanWatch and will probably either use my week or use some other method to trade....right now this doesn't appeal to me at all.

winger · Jun 20, 2010

I did a quick, informal, unsolicited walkthrough with a sales rep at a local Marriott resort today.

One major concern I brought up was that my Platinum Manor Club 'redeems' for 2375 points, which seems VERY low compared to places I have exchanged into the past few years (like Newport Coast, where a comparable Platinum week requires 4725 points, nearly DOUBLE my Manor Club's points).

The way it was explained to me is IF I wanted to take my Platinum Manor Club week and request a straight 7-night exchange to another Marriott resort, I do NOT even have to 'redeem' it for my 2375 points (basically, the points chart is meaninless...now how would I have figured that out by myself? ); rather, I would simply inform my VOA that I wanted to request an exchange of my Manor week for say a Newport Coast week. The VOA would then process the exchange request, similar to what II does now. I asked for the specific language in some document that specifies this,,,he could not provide it, but will be getting back to me in a few days. -> The only time/reason I would bank my week for the 2375 points is if I were wanting to make use of the various 'enhancements' of the new program, such as reserve a Fri-Mon stay...

One more thing - rep says basically when a member going forward deposits a specific MVCI week to II to request an exchange to say a Hyatt, Marriott has the option of giving II another week. I double checked this by asking him again and the rep confirmed.

Costs and purchase bonus:

Cost to purchase is $9.20/point (normal price is $10/pt), and annual maintenance fee for the points is $0.40/point, subject to change.

There are one-time bonus points offered for enrollment and purchase of additional points - I forget the exact # but it was about 1500pts purchased gets you a one-time bonus of 1600-1800 pts.

That was all the time the rep had for me LOL. I guess I just sounded plain too skeptical and he had a client waiting.

dougp26364 · Jun 20, 2010

IngridN said:
Not necessarily. If you chose to join points, but continue to deposit in II, the only fee will be if you choose a non-Marriott property. If it's a Marriott property, there is no exchange fee. Also, you will not have the cost of the yearly II membership fee.

Ingrid

I think I'll keep my $89 membership fee and pay the exchange fee's for any exchanges I might do, just so I can say I never signed anything with Marriott when it comes to this new program. There's to much small print for me to feel comfortable signing any form with them now that I've seen the program.

For the most part, we exchange our lock-out units. Total cost will be $208 for the exchanges if they're Marriott to Marriott or $298 if they're Marriott to non-Marriott exchanges plus the Interval membership of $89/year. The savings if we went with Marriott's corporate account would be $222 but, since I own non-Marriott resorts that I don't intend on getting rid of now that I've seen Marriott's program, the savings to me would only potentially be $133 and could be as low as $43 if we can still trade Marriott to Marriott. That's not enough money to get me off the couch and certainly not enough to get me to shell our almost $700 in upfront fee's to join.

Considering that this is for two exchanges per year, those that only make one exchange per year could possibly lose money on the deal.

IngridN · Jun 20, 2010

pfrank4127 said:
You still have to pay the yearly club fee $169 for 1 week.

What are Club Dues?

Once you enroll, reservation and usage fees such as locking off, membership with Interval International and trading for Marriott Rewards points will be consolidated into one annual, convenient fee called Club Dues. Club Dues are initially set at $165 if you own or have enrolled up to 6,499 Vacation Club Points. Club Dues are initially set at $199 if you own or have enrolled 6,500 or more Vacation Club Points.

Yes, in our situation, we'd save money:

$199 dues

savings: $104 to convert to MAR points; $75 lock off fee; $109 x 2 exchange fees + whatever we decide to do with the Grand Chateau week that year. This is the only advantage I can see for me to join points.

The only way you'd lose is if you always book your week to use.

Ingrid

floyddl · Jun 20, 2010

Stefa said:
You can still reserve your 2BR if you join the points system. If you want to stay at your home resort you just don't convert to points that year.

Is that right? I thought you convert to points you have to reserve your week with points every year.

scrapngen · Jun 20, 2010

wuv pooh said:
Scrapgen, you are pretty much the biggest winner of anyone under the new system.

Join the system. If you want to stay in your fixed weeks then use them as planned - simple. If you had floating weeks, you would have a potential issue, but fixed weeks are guaranteed.

If you want to trade - multiple opportunities. You are no longer forced to trade down via II or rent your week and hope for the best.

You can spend 10 nights in the summer in Newport coast. Go to San Diego for the weekend and spend 10 nights Sun-Thur and still have points left over.

You can spend a week at Grande Ocean Ocean Side and have points left over- a comparable trade or spend a few more points or go 6 days Ocean Front - a great trade.

You can spend TWO weeks in Orlando or Williamsburg

etc., etc.

It is a great program for people who have spent big bucks with Marriott.

Not really: let's look at Newport Coast: MF's 1100-1200? Waiohai MF's 1475

My Christmas Waiohai 4225 points does not get me Christmas NCV at 4725 points.
My New Year's week 5175 WILL get me New Year's NCV 4950

All summer weeks at NCV are MORE than my allotted Christmas week Waiohai!
June 24-June 30 4725
July 1-7 5675 (understandable 4th July week - won't ever actually get this with points unless you have Premier Plus is my guess)
July 8-Aug 11 4725

So my Christmas week pulls less than any summer week (!) at both Waiohai and NCV
And my New Year's week will possibly give me an extra day or two in the summer. Whoopie!!
Again, I don't see this gaining anything over the current extra I could get trading with an AC. And I have far less chance of trades to other HI resorts for equal 2 bedroom as I see it, as they are valued higher (to be fair, they pay more in MF's, I believe)

If I'm one of the biggest winners (which I still disagree with - as I think the only winners will be Premier Plus at 13000 points or more) I'm not looking that great. IMHO I should be able to get two weeks in Orlando right now with an AC for just one of my weeks (per your other example). So, again, I'm not seeing better benefits, and if I'm in the best position, then the system must be REALLY bad for everyone else.

Any flexibility comes at a great loss of point value - so I wouldn't give up a few days just to have a different start day in the week. I'd rather get my current value out of my MF's, not lose it!! If I felt that that additional $169 allowed me to change the start days at my home resort a bit or trade to other prime weeks at my home resort, it would be worth it to me. As it is, that doesn't seem to be the case.

IngridN · Jun 20, 2010

dougp26364 said:
I think I'll keep my $89 membership fee and pay the exchange fee's for any exchanges I might do, just so I can say I never signed anything with Marriott when it comes to this new program. There's to much small print for me to feel comfortable signing any form with them now that I've seen the program.

For the most part, we exchange our lock-out units. Total cost will be $208 for the exchanges if they're Marriott to Marriott or $298 if they're Marriott to non-Marriott exchanges plus the Interval membership of $89/year. The savings if we went with Marriott's corporate account would be $222 but, since I own non-Marriott resorts that I don't intend on getting rid of now that I've seen Marriott's program, the savings to me would only potentially be $133 and could be as low as $43 if we can still trade Marriott to Marriott. That's not enough money to get me off the couch and certainly not enough to get me to shell our almost $700 in upfront fee's to join.

Considering that this is for two exchanges per year, those that only make one exchange per year could possibly lose money on the deal.

I agree. At this point I am very uncomfortable with the program and will gladly pay the extra $100s.

Ingrid

UK Fan · Jun 20, 2010

The Marriott site indicated that I would get 3,225 points for my OceanWatch Platinum Gardenview. Does anyone else have any MOW examples?

Thanks.

josh1231 · Jun 20, 2010

timeos2 said:
To further ensure that you get what you have coming they also do not charge you the actual "outside" value for those weeks - even the higher point value ones - if you use your own resort. You get the time for the value of your deeded ownership (and actually don't even have to use points to do that). .

This is true, however you do get charged the "outside" rate for properties you're exchanging into though.

The only people I can really see benefiting from this new system is people who did not have lock-offs and owned at resorts with really high points value, and did not need to stay in two bedroom resorts. For my Shadow Ridge gold, the new system is far inferior than the current Interval Exchange. Under the old, I could get a week in a 2-bedroom and a week in a 1-bedroom at some pretty good places, off season (I do realize I can still do the interval exchanges, I'm just working under the assumption that the quality of exchanges is going to go down drastically under the new system).

With the new system, it doesn't have enough points to be able to do this even during the off season. As people switch to points, the interval trading will be less and less, therefore points will more than likely be about the only way to get a resort you want.

The other negative for me with this is that resale values are going to be nothing. I can't see sinking $1495 into something that will be worth nothing since they apparently aren't letting new resales into the system.

For me, this is a no-brainer not to join. No advantages. Now I just need to decide whether to sell my week now, or let the exchange pool dry up for a few years then sell.

The one thing I don't understand is how they believe keeping future resale buyers out of the system will help them sell timeshares to people. How can they convince someone to spend $40k on something that 8 days later is worth $0k? No matter how you do the math, it doesn't work out in your favor versus renting thee exact same weeks from Marriott, or someone else.

aka Julie · Jun 20, 2010

Most TUGgers have already checked out to see how many points their week(s) are worth.

What about the vast majority of owners who have absolutely no clue about this "new program."

When and how will Marriott get the word out? They have to do it soon otherwise there will be little inventory for internal trades and it will get off to a very slow start.

Venter · Jun 20, 2010

dougp26364 said:
I agree that this is scary stuff. They can arbitrarily change the number of points required to reserve a unit? When you by points with Marriott, now you're just buying the right to reserve some vacation time somewhere in the system. From year to year, you'll never know whether the points you originally purchased will be enough to reserve the week you targeted when you laid down you money. Essentially, reserving a week at any one particluar resort appears to have become a moving target for new owners.

Original owners maintain their right to occupy their home resort week by electing not to give up that week for points. New owners appear to buy an arbitrary number of points and hope that every year they'll have enough points to reserve that summer week at NCV they really wanted. But under this new system, if NCV becomes a hot property, Marriott can increase the number of points required to stay there and it appears they can do so at their discreation.

Now I understand that trade value will vary from year to year. Hawaii might have lost some trade value in recent years due to the economy. Maybe in a few more years, when the economy turns around, Hawaii might be the hot trade destination again and, even in a weeks based exchange system, that would be reflected by the fact it would be a more difficult exchange.

But to buy points with the intention of going to Hawaii under the new system when the points required are lower due to the economy, only to see the point requirement go up when things turn around and demand for Hawaii goes up, is bound to tick new owners under the points sytem off to no end. As a legacy owner it's not that big of a deal as I mainten the rights to use my home resort week when Hawaii is to expensive on the points chart. If I own in Hawaii under the original program, it's no big deal because I would retain the right to use my home resort week in my purchased season and in a unit the style/size in my contract. But for new owners, their desired destination has potentially become a moving target. Want to go to Hawaii in 2011? It will be 4,500 points. Want to go to Hawaii in 2020? We can't tell you how many points is it will require because the points required will vary depending on demand.

I'm glad I bought from Marriott when we did. We won't be buying from Marriott under their new program. There appears to be no way to guarentee what we buy today will get the accomadations we want tomorrow.

If good resale weeks become available at rock bottom prices because their locked out of the new system, it might be worth picking some up either to use or to exchange on the weeks based system with Interval (might become a hot commodity for Interval if it's an in demand week).

In a way I wonder if this might be good for resales in the long term. If it costs more and more points as time goes on to stay at a resort then people might look to resale and increase demand.

IngridN · Jun 20, 2010

winger said:
The way it was explained to me is IF I wanted to take my Platinum Manor Club week and request a straight 7-night exchange to another Marriott resort, I do NOT even have to 'redeem' it for my 2375 points; rather, I would simply inform my VOA that I wanted to request an exchange of my Manor week for say a Newport Coast week. The VOA would then process the exchange request, similar to what II does now.

I had the same conversation this morning. Basically, what you are doing is exchanging through II with Marriott as your liaison...just like Hilton in RCI. I asked about continued ability to access the II site any time night or day and make exchanges and was told no, that it goes through Marriott. Told her that was a dealbreaker; she then went and checked and came back and told me that I would continue to have full access to II as I do now, except that there would be no II yearly fee and no exchange fee for Marriott to Marriott exchanges. If I exchanged outside of Marriott, there would be the usual II fee. Frankly, I'm sceptical...

Ingrid

floyddl · Jun 20, 2010

UK Fan said:
The Marriott site told me that I would get 3,225 points for my OceanWatch Platinum Gardenview. Does anyone else have any MOW examples?

Thanks.

Plat Plus OF July 4th Week = 5250 with a trade value of 5400

UK Fan · Jun 20, 2010

aka Julie said:
Most TUGgers have already checked out to see how many points their week(s) are worth.

What about the vast majority of owners who have absolutely no clue about this "new program."

When and how will Marriott get the word out? They have to do it soon otherwise there will be little inventory for internal trades and it will get off to a very slow start.

I have to say that I am curious as to what the other ownes have to say about the new program next week. At OceanWatch, many owners use their weeks, so I intend on spreading the word about the new program and TUG at the pool!

josh1231 · Jun 20, 2010

scrapngen said:
Not really: let's look at Newport Coast: MF's 1100-1200? Waiohai MF's 1475

My Christmas Waiohai 4225 points does not get me Christmas NCV at 4725 points.
My New Year's week 5175 WILL get me New Year's NCV 4950

All summer weeks at NCV are MORE than my allotted Christmas week Waiohai!
June 24-June 30 4725
July 1-7 5675 (understandable 4th July week - won't ever actually get this with points unless you have Premier Plus is my guess)
July 8-Aug 11 4725

So my Christmas week pulls less than any summer week (!) at both Waiohai and NCV
And my New Year's week will possibly give me an extra day or two in the summer. Whoopie!!
Again, I don't see this gaining anything over the current extra I could get trading with an AC. And I have far less chance of trades to other HI resorts for equal 2 bedroom as I see it, as they are valued higher (to be fair, they pay more in MF's, I believe)

If I'm one of the biggest winners (which I still disagree with - as I think the only winners will be Premier Plus at 13000 points or more) I'm not looking that great. IMHO I should be able to get two weeks in Orlando right now with an AC for just one of my weeks (per your other example). So, again, I'm not seeing better benefits, and if I'm in the best position, then the system must be REALLY bad for everyone else.

Any flexibility comes at a great loss of point value - so I wouldn't give up a few days just to have a different start day in the week. I'd rather get my current value out of my MF's, not lose it!! If I felt that that additional $169 allowed me to change the start days at my home resort a bit or trade to other prime weeks at my home resort, it would be worth it to me. As it is, that doesn't seem to be the case.

I agree with you completely. The points system doesn't even work out for you with a great week. You would only be able to trade your 2-bedroom into Ko Olina at the least demand weeks at Ko Olina. I just don't see who this benefits.

UK Fan · Jun 20, 2010

I certainly think Marriott will take advantage of their ability to "adjust" the points as much as possible. It will be interesting to see what happens in 18-24 months.

Marriott Destination Points...They have done it!!!!!! {Merged}

scrapngen

wuv pooh

taffy19

pfrank4127

timeos2

Tug Review Crew: Rookie

UK Fan

IngridN

IngridN

pfrank4127

UK Fan

winger

dougp26364

TUG Review Crew: Expert

IngridN

floyddl

scrapngen

IngridN

UK Fan

josh1231

aka Julie

Venter

IngridN

floyddl

UK Fan

josh1231

UK Fan