Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

dougp26364 said:

Sure there's a need for seperate or multiple inventory's. If I'm a deeded week owner, I expect to be able to book a week in my season. If points owners are allowed to reserve all the weeks in my season, then Marriott has violated the terms of our agreement for usage. Therefore there MUST be seperate invnetory's to assure that legacy owners have adaquate access to their deeded weeks.

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I agree with that and I dont think they would do anything to go against that theory.

The biggest issue will be what is available in specific timeframes within the season. What is to stop Marriott from allowing 14 month booking for point holders then point holder from reserving 95% of the summer NCV weeks? Once point holders hit their % cap, they cannot book anymore platimun weeks. It will leave the deeded owners with the less valuable or desired times within Platinum season. Technically, Marriott will be able to say platinum deed holder do have weeks to reserve, but in reality it is the less desirable weeks. That is my main concern.

JimIg23 said:

I agree with that and I dont think they would do anything to go against that theory.

The biggest issue will be what is available in specific timeframes within the season. What is to stop Marriott from allowing 14 month booking for point holders then point holder from reserving 95% of the summer NCV weeks? Once point holders hit their % cap, they cannot book anymore platimun weeks. It will leave the deeded owners with the less valuable or desired times within Platinum season. Technically, Marriott will be able to say platinum deed holder do have weeks to reserve, but in reality it is the less desirable weeks. That is my main concern.

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I don't believe they could legally or technically within the rules do this. They will have to have separate inventory on a weekly basis. They will need to make a decision of how many units within a given week are available to each group and not cross over unless someone converts mid cycle. Really the only way I think they can reasonably do it is by % then make a decision of exactly how many weeks once you see where the line lies. Say that there are 11 units and the season is 10 weeks and 56 of the owners convert. That's 51% and you can't perfectly divide up 51% every week. In reality they'd likely just take 50% for each but that leaves one unit unaccounted for on the fence each week. Since you can't split a unit in a single (reasonably), in this situation I'd expect them to allot 5 units to weeks and 6 to points some weeks and the reverse other weeks. Of course 11 units is small but when you account for view types and start dates, it's a real world example. Take crystal shores with 3 view types, 4 start days and only 71 units (67 in use) and Marriott already owning 6 roughly 60% of the inventory.

How many times does a 6-shooter shoot on TV - 8 times?

dougp26364 said:

Sure there's a need for seperate or multiple inventory's. If I'm a deeded week owner, I expect to be able to book a week in my season. If points owners are allowed to reserve all the weeks in my season, then Marriott has violated the terms of our agreement for usage. Therefore there MUST be seperate invnetory's to assure that legacy owners have adaquate access to their deeded weeks.

Click to expand...

Imagine it's 8 AM CST in November and it's 13 months before week 52 opens at Park City. Marriott's salesreps have been selling thousands of owners the dream of New Year's Eve on the slopes at Park City.

Ding - it's 8 AM and 5,000 folks click the mouse to make a reservation....

Well this ain't TV and there are only 200 villas at MountainSide and 200 at Summit Watch (approximate) and only 400 owners can get those reservations - at the very max. Throw out 50% of the inventory at 13 months and only 200 reservations can be issued at the max.

Of course Marriott has to have a deed behind any available reservation and that's part of the job of the Points/Weeks Calendar - it has to be loaded with deeds in order for reservations to be issued. They can't fudge this. Just like right now - "No reservations left".

So only 1 pool of reservations needs to be kept.

When Marriott builds new Point oriented Resorts there has to be 2 pools of inventory - one for Resale Points/Legacy Points and one for Point Resorts which probably will keep out those kinds of folks...

A deed is a deed....indeed.

dougp26364 said:

Sure there's a need for seperate or multiple inventory's. If I'm a deeded week owner, I expect to be able to book a week in my season. If points owners are allowed to reserve all the weeks in my season, then Marriott has violated the terms of our agreement for usage. Therefore there MUST be seperate invnetory's to assure that legacy owners have adaquate access to their deeded weeks.

Click to expand...

NO!

A deed spells out the ownership and usage rights to the holder of that deed.

Marriott has 1 inventory right now and its pre-loaded with deeds and the range of calendar dates any one deed is open for. Once a reservation is made for the week the deed is removed from inventory.

There isn't any difference between what Marriott does now and what it needs to do for Resale/Legacy Points owners - none.

Now sales wise there is a hell of a difference - as of today Marriott can't hawk week 52 at Maui since it has no deeds to back it up.

Starting 6/21/10 Marriott will ONLY sell week 52 at Maui or whatever week you tell them is your family's favorite week to vacation. It's up to the new Points owner to figure out that they want what everyone wants and they need to buy more Points to beat out the competition for next year.

Marriott simply expanded a 1 byte identifier to each deed record - that byte identifies who is the owner of the deed e.g. 1) Legacy owner, 2) Legacy owner who relinquished deed this year 3) Resale owner, 4) Points owner. They have had this field all the time just added 2 new IDs which doesn't yet exist - the 100% Points owner starting 6/21/10 and Legacy owners relinquishing their deed to the new system.

Now if you want to say that's 4 inventories I guess I can understand that. Heck there could be many more but there is but one inventory of deeds to load the 2 reservation systems now.

This same one inventory determines who can cash in deeds for MRPs too.

I'm now guessing we are talking about the same exact thing - just an ID for each deed to keep track of who has the ability to reserve that deed.

This is my misunderstanding - we are talking about the same exact thing.

I have one of those men-in-black memory erasing gizmos (comes standard on the new iPhone 4) so I'm just going to erase the last 5-minutes of memory.

Poof...

27 more post needed to pass the Aruba thread. I think today is the day!:rofl:

Dean-
Let me see if I am getting this- are you saying basically that:
-week owners who decide to stay as is will have a proportionate number of weeks to reserve of each week in their season according to the percentage of week owners and will get to make their reservations at 12 months (or 13 months if they retain the 13 month rule)
-legacy week owners who opt into the new points system will have a proportionate number of weeks to reserve of each week in their season according to the percentage of ownership weeks in the new system (converted owners + unsold inventory) and, of course, will be sharing that inventory with new points owners. BUT- legacy week owners who opt to use their week in any given year will be able to reserve at the 12 month mark, while legacy point owners (legacy week owners converting to points in a given year) will only be able to reserve closer in, perhaps at the 10 or 11 month mark

Now, where do new point owners fall in this pool? If they have no home resort- since it has been said a point is a point- they don't have a home resort priority to book anywhere. Does that mean they also have to wait to the 10 or 11 month mark to book anywhere? Or do they compete with the legacy week owners in the new program but using their week (but that would mean they didn't get home resort priority)? It seems like there would have to be a third pool of inventory unless no point owner could booth until week owners had first crack at the reservations (and, in reality, first crack could even mean one day in advance, not a month or two).

Lastly- and I think this will be a big negative personally- is it your understanding from all this that a legacy week owner will have to use his/her entire week as a single unit to retain home resort priority for booking and that the unit cannot be split (or that if it is split both halves are used as weeks reservations at one's home resort)? That would mean that a legacy week owner who converts to take advantage of internal exchanges could not use their 1BR part at their home resort and book with home resort priority while trying to book their studio (or combining points with perhaps another partial or full unit) elsewhere using the point based internal exchange system. So either they would have to give up home resort advantage when booking their partial unit or exchange externally via II. That would preclude owners from a very big benefit- the potential to combine left-over points from partial units. It seems as though even in the new system it would be weeks or points, except just on a yearly basis.

PerryM said:

NO!

A deed spells out the ownership and usage rights to the holder of that deed.

Marriott has 1 inventory right now and its pre-loaded with deeds and the range of calendar dates any one deed is open for. Once a reservation is made for the week the deed is removed from inventory.

There isn't any difference between what Marriott does now and what it needs to do for Resale/Legacy Points owners - none.

Now sales wise there is a hell of a difference - as of today Marriott can't hawk week 52 at Maui since it has no deeds to back it up.

Starting 6/21/10 Marriott will ONLY sell week 52 at Maui or whatever week you tell them is your family's favorite week to vacation. It's up to the new Points owner to figure out that they want what everyone wants and they need to buy more Points to beat out the competition for next year.

Marriott simply expanded a 1 byte identifier to each deed record - that byte identifies who is the owner of the deed e.g. 1) Legacy owner, 2) Legacy owner who relinquished deed this year 3) Resale owner, 4) Points owner. They have had this field all the time just added 2 new IDs which doesn't yet exist - the 100% Points owner starting 6/21/10 and Legacy owners relinquishing their deed to the new system.

Now if you want to say that's 4 inventories I guess I can understand that. Heck there could be many more but there is but one inventory of deeds to load the 2 reservation systems now.

This same one inventory determines who can cash in deeds for MRPs too.

I'm now guessing we are talking about the same exact thing - just an ID for each deed to keep track of who has the ability to reserve that deed.

This is my misunderstanding - we are talking about the same exact thing.

I have one of those men-in-black memory erasing gizmos (comes standard on the new iPhone 4) so I'm just going to erase the last 5-minutes of memory.

Poof...

Click to expand...

Scary, but I think I understand what you are saying. Basically EVERYONE will start at the same time to book a week but there will be a "marker" on each account to show how they bought; legacy, points etc. Once each type of ownership group reaches their allotted limit, anyone else with that marker will no longer be able to reserve. Since the legacy weeks group will still be able to book the amount of reservations that corresponds to how many legacy owners are left, no contract violations have occurred. Unfortunately for the legacy owners, and technically eveyone else, is that a very large quantity of people will be going for the "hot" weeks. Even though there may only be 50% of the weeks assigned to points, EVERY person with enough points can try for the "hot" week. This will make it much tougher for anyone to get them. The legacy owner will still be able to get a week in their season, just not the one they wanted. This would not be a good thing.

RandR said:

Scary, but I think I understand what you are saying. Basically EVERYONE will start at the same time to book a week but there will be a "marker" on each account to show how they bought; legacy, points etc. Once each type of ownership group reaches their allotted limit, anyone else with that marker will no longer be able to reserve. Since the legacy weeks group will still be able to book the amount of reservations that corresponds to how many legacy owners are left, no contract violations have occurred. Unfortunately for the legacy owners, and technically eveyone else, is that a very large quantity of people will be going for the "hot" weeks. Even though there may only be 50% of the weeks assigned to points, EVERY person with enough points can try for the "hot" week. This will make it much tougher for anyone to get them. The legacy owner will still be able to get a week in their season, just not the one they wanted. This would not be a good thing.

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Each owner/member is flagged as to who they are AND each deed is too.

E.g.
Week 7 at Summit Watch is a Platinum week - just like week 6 and week 8. Week 7 is Presidents week and a VERY hot ski week - almost as hot as week 52.

There are 14 Platinum weeks at SW for the year * 200 villas or 2,800 deeded Platinum weeks and they DO NOT include weeks 51 & 52. Marriott only needs to control 200 Platinum SW deeds to totally lock out week 7 to any non-members!

Folks want to reserve week 7 and that's what the sales reps will be hawking - "You're entitled to week 7 if you have enough Points to reserve it" (This is a very convoluted, but correct, statement).

13 months to the second 50% of the reservations are now up for grabs to ALL that are flagged to get it. That's 100 2BR units.

Sadly at the second the total will NOT be 100 but less because folks added weeks in front of it to sneak ahead in line. That's deeded owners, Legacy Point owners and Marriott sold Point owners.

Since week 7 is just Platinum the new system just requires 100 SW owners to have turned in a Platinum week to be eligible to snag it.

Now here's the sneaky part - deeded owners are limited to using their deeds to put back-to-back in order to jump in front of other folks.

Legacy and Marriott sold Point owners can use far fewer Points and find something somewhere in the system to throw in front of the expensive SW Platinum week.

Let's say there are Silver weeks in Branson that Marriott never sold and is now in the Trust so cheap weeks 5 and 6 are reserved in Branson and week 7 can now be reserved in SW. Marriott has to have all 3 in its inventory of weeks that can be reserved to make this work.

At 12 months out thousands of members will try to get week 7 - thousands. Sure some SW Platinum owners will snag a few week 7's but many more Point members will now get access to President's week that never bought SW.

Basically there are MANY reasons for folks to learn the new system and exploit it to their advantage.

Getting 200 Platinum SW owners to join the new system is childs' play and kiss ALL week 7 goodbye at SW to non members.

If I were Marriott I would offer a dumbed down version of the above to their members - just allow pre-reservations 14 months in advance and let the Marriott computers find a way to snag the week they really want - and the program will look at the number of Points in the account and figure out ways to do this.

I vow

I vow not to look at this thread again until the program is announced.

Swice said:

I vow not to look at this thread again until the program is announced.

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I dare you. :hysterical:

Perry, I have a great way for you to make some money to pay all the new fees in the soon to be announced new system. Charge people to attend webinars on how to beat the system.

Ha

Man-- I couldn't do it!

PerryM said:

Marriott can't allow a reservation to take place unless a deed is there to back it up. They can't just allow a reservation at week 52 unless a deed has been either put into the trust or put up by a Legacy owner.

No need for multiple inventories.

P.S.

It's going to be fun to watch how Marriott allows Legacy owners to deposit their usage into the system 12 months out with 13 month reservations.

P.P.S.

There is a case for multiple inventories and that's for NEW Marriott Resorts - Marriott can make up any rules it wants for those guys; like 14 month reservations. Of course Legacy Points won't be able to snag anything in new Marriotts - have to buy Points from Marriott to get there.

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Perry,

I think we are saying the same thing, just in different ways. When in the past I have spoke of separate inventories I did not mean separated physically. Marriott must keep track of the deeds and not allow points users to reserve more room at any given resort in any given season than have been put in the points system. This results in a week being available in each owners season at their resort to reserve if they have not converted to points. In other words Points reservations in any given resort in any given season can not exceed the number of weeks converted to points at that resort and season. This in effect keeps the pools for reservations separate.

Lets say the GO Platinum is completely sold out and only one owner converts his week to points. This would result in only one week being available for points members to reserve.

The FAIREST way would be to proportion each week in the season between weeks owners and point owners, BUT, Marriott is not requires to do this. Marriott could let points owners start reserving the points weeks at 18 months and leave weeks owners to reserve at 12 months as long as there are adequate weeks let for weeks owners to each reserve in their given season. I CHOOSE to believe that Marriott will not do this!

Ray

100% of the MVCI Points Program Details (Just joking!)

So, does anyone have them yet ?

It's my day off and I was bored, sorry LOL

Morning Fletch,
You are lucky to be off...

I almost called in sick today so I could sit at home and have my wife cook and bring me food while I kept hitting "refresh." :whoopie:

You dirty rat -- I thought you had started a thread that had all the details.
:hysterical:

Something just got through my thick head!

Marriott may never need to exercise ROFR again! Marriott will never need to buy weeks at sold out resorts as long as at least one will is already in the points program! Marriott just sells points that have equal opportunity to reserve time at any resort, based on availability.

So Marriott could keep adding points from new or unsold weeks at ANY resort and tell Joe Blow " Sure you can use your points to reserve week 52 in Maui!" They can do this as long as they have at least one week in the points pool than is eligible to reserve week 52 on Maui.

I feel in the end it may very well prove advantageous to own a deeded week, at a resort and season you enjoy, at least for quite a few years to come! Now if you bought a Bronze week to snag a prime week at another resort, you may be out of luck.

Ray

I have bits and pieces but thats it. I didn't try to hard because my old bosses would have a fit if I posted details before the roll out.
I want to get 1000 views today and my goal is accomlished
BTW, If I bought a computer for $1499. I wonder what else I could have used that money for instead ?
any ideas ?

aka Julie said:

You dirty rat -- I thought you had started a thread that had all the details.
:hysterical:

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My guess is you will get 5,000 views. That is if they let you keep this thread open. It's pretty closely related to the other one, so they like to keep the posts together.

JimIg23 said:

I agree with that and I dont think they would do anything to go against that theory.

The biggest issue will be what is available in specific timeframes within the season. What is to stop Marriott from allowing 14 month booking for point holders then point holder from reserving 95% of the summer NCV weeks? Once point holders hit their % cap, they cannot book anymore platimun weeks. It will leave the deeded owners with the less valuable or desired times within Platinum season. Technically, Marriott will be able to say platinum deed holder do have weeks to reserve, but in reality it is the less desirable weeks. That is my main concern.

Click to expand...

There's nothing stopping them except their integrity. Hopefully Marriott will want to keep their owners happy and refering friends and family. I don't see Marriott making this sort of move. It would be pretty bad PR and would generate a LOT of angry owners letting Marriott now how they feel. Current owners are their best source of prospects. You don't really want to bite the hand that feeds you.

PerryM said:

Imagine it's 8 AM CST in November and it's 13 months before week 52 opens at Park City. Marriott's salesreps have been selling thousands of owners the dream of New Year's Eve on the slopes at Park City.

Ding - it's 8 AM and 5,000 folks click the mouse to make a reservation....

Well this ain't TV and there are only 200 villas at MountainSide and 200 at Summit Watch (approximate) and only 400 owners can get those reservations - at the very max. Throw out 50% of the inventory at 13 months and only 200 reservations can be issued at the max.

Of course Marriott has to have a deed behind any available reservation and that's part of the job of the Points/Weeks Calendar - it has to be loaded with deeds in order for reservations to be issued. They can't fudge this. Just like right now - "No reservations left".

So only 1 pool of reservations needs to be kept.

When Marriott builds new Point oriented Resorts there has to be 2 pools of inventory - one for Resale Points/Legacy Points and one for Point Resorts which probably will keep out those kinds of folks...

A deed is a deed....indeed.

Click to expand...

You're having a lot of issues getting past this deed thing. You're incorrect when you assume that Marriott has to have a deed behind every points package. All that's required is that they can't sell more points than can be used to make reservations for a particular resort. If they have 200 two bedroom units and it requires 1,000 points to reserve each unit, then Marriott can only sell 200,000 points, not deeds, for that resort.

There is precedent on my side with other points programs with mixed weeks/points programs that will back up my assertion that seperate inventories will need to be maintained.

rsackett said:

Perry,

I think we are saying the same thing, just in different ways. When in the past I have spoke of separate inventories I did not mean separated physically. Marriott must keep track of the deeds and not allow points users to reserve more room at any given resort in any given season than have been put in the points system. This results in a week being available in each owners season at their resort to reserve if they have not converted to points. In other words Points reservations in any given resort in any given season can not exceed the number of weeks converted to points at that resort and season. This in effect keeps the pools for reservations separate.

Lets say the GO Platinum is completely sold out and only one owner converts his week to points. This would result in only one week being available for points members to reserve.

The FAIREST way would be to proportion each week in the season between weeks owners and point owners, BUT, Marriott is not requires to do this. Marriott could let points owners start reserving the points weeks at 18 months and leave weeks owners to reserve at 12 months as long as there are adequate weeks let for weeks owners to each reserve in their given season. I CHOOSE to believe that Marriott will not do this!

Ray

Click to expand...

rsackett said:

Something just got through my thick head!

Marriott may never need to exercise ROFR again! Marriott will never need to buy weeks at sold out resorts as long as at least one will is already in the points program! Marriott just sells points that have equal opportunity to reserve time at any resort, based on availability.

So Marriott could keep adding points from new or unsold weeks at ANY resort and tell Joe Blow " Sure you can use your points to reserve week 52 in Maui!" They can do this as long as they have at least one week in the points pool than is eligible to reserve week 52 on Maui.

I feel in the end it may very well prove advantageous to own a deeded week, at a resort and season you enjoy, at least for quite a few years to come! Now if you bought a Bronze week to snag a prime week at another resort, you may be out of luck.

Ray

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I take responsibility for some of this confusion - I think we are all saying the same thing.

Admit it, Fletch. You just wanted to be Firsty-First.

My competive sales nature does make me love being 1st at things

SueDonJ said:

Admit it, Fletch. You just wanted to be Firsty-First.

Click to expand...

rsackett said:

Something just got through my thick head!

Marriott may never need to exercise ROFR again! Marriott will never need to buy weeks at sold out resorts as long as at least one will is already in the points program! Marriott just sells points that have equal opportunity to reserve time at any resort, based on availability.

So Marriott could keep adding points from new or unsold weeks at ANY resort and tell Joe Blow " Sure you can use your points to reserve week 52 in Maui!" They can do this as long as they have at least one week in the points pool than is eligible to reserve week 52 on Maui.

I feel in the end it may very well prove advantageous to own a deeded week, at a resort and season you enjoy, at least for quite a few years to come! Now if you bought a Bronze week to snag a prime week at another resort, you may be out of luck.

Ray

Click to expand...

Keeping in mind that Marriott can not sell more points than it has nights available for reservations and you see the attractiveness of selling points rather than deeds. You don't have to sell a deeded week. You can sell point packages in increments such as 100, 200 or 500 or any increment Marriott chooses. The points, if it's a trust based ownership, don't even have to be attached to a specific resort (no home resort advantage). Marriott just has to have inventory somewhere to back up those points. As Perry points out, Marriott will be able to move those undesirable weeks such as Silver weeks at Branson without breaking a sweat.

There are good things and not so good things about points. It's not all bad but it's not all good either. That's why hashing out stuff in long threads like this can be a good thing.