• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 31 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 31st anniversary: Happy 31st Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $23,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $23 Million dollars
  • Wish you could meet up with other TUG members? Well look no further as this annual event has been going on for years in Orlando! How to Attend the TUG January Get-Together!
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    Tens of thousands of subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

Status
Not open for further replies.

lovearuba

TUG Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
760
Reaction score
2
Location
MA
The perfect solution

In some states (e.g., Florida), once the timeshare HOA is taken over by an independent, owner-controlled BOD, the timeshare cannot go back under timeshare company control -- i.e., when the owners are in & the timeshare company is out, then that's it. Period. Case closed.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

Imagine a world where the owners actually have say over what is done with their money and week. I would love to see this happen but as long as there is still some value and profit in the system, Marriott will squeeze it and the owners dry.
 

timeos2

Tug Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2005
Messages
11,183
Reaction score
5
Location
Rochester, NY
Trust ownership tends to bring extra costs and less control on fees

You forgot to mention that once you were in the UDI, the club dues and M F's went up big time.

Actually UDI ownership doesn't have to impact M F's vs a straight deeded week but being in the Trust, with it's own fees and overhead, does tend add cost. Sometimes considerable costs vs straight resort ownership with UDI or deeded weeks. Plus your vote that can carry weight in a single resort Association vs having virtually no impact in the Trust operation. Too many negatives for me. I prefer a deeded week that I can put into a points system IF I desire. Best of both worlds that way. I keep control (vote), keep costs low (pay for my resort that I can vote at only) plus the minimal expense of an "exchange company"(Points system) and can resell what I own (meaning I can get a great resale deal coming in too!). Deeded rights mean I have the protection of real estate law backing my ownership and I cannot lose my ownership for a "rules violation" or a simple missed payment as can be done under Trust "memberships" that are RTU.

Too many minuses in the Trust model for me.
 

timeos2

Tug Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2005
Messages
11,183
Reaction score
5
Location
Rochester, NY
No one gets value out like the real owners

Imagine a world where the owners actually have say over what is done with their money and week. I would love to see this happen but as long as there is still some value and profit in the system, Marriott will squeeze it and the owners dry.

Thats why we prefer an owner controlled, independently managed resort vs a "name brand". Costs tend to lower, accountability higher and, if the owners want it, quality that meets or beats the "names". We call the shots and we get answers when we want them.

I love the Wyndham system but, like Marriott, they insist on total control. It has led to higher than needed fees, lower quality resorts and a resale price of basically zero. Not what they should be for an outstanding collection of great locations & an easy to use system. It is poor management focused on sales that, like almost every other developer controlled resort/system, fails to meet expectations or delver the value it should for the dollars spent.
 

bobcat

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2006
Messages
982
Reaction score
0
Actually UDI ownership doesn't have to impact M F's vs a straight deeded week but being in the Trust, with it's own fees and overhead, does tend add cost. Sometimes considerable costs vs straight resort ownership with UDI or deeded weeks. Plus your vote that can carry weight in a single resort Association vs having virtually no impact in the Trust operation. Too many negatives for me. I prefer a deeded week that I can put into a points system IF I desire. Best of both worlds that way. I keep control (vote), keep costs low (pay for my resort that I can vote at only) plus the minimal expense of an "exchange company"(Points system) and can resell what I own (meaning I can get a great resale deal coming in too!). Deeded rights mean I have the protection of real estate law backing my ownership and I cannot lose my ownership for a "rules violation" or a simple missed payment as can be done under Trust "memberships" that are RTU.

Too many minuses in the Trust model for me.

This is a great post. Well said.. :cheer:
 
L

laurac260

does anyone know if any of the past 2000 posts are anything more than pure speculation? Seriously??
 
E

EducatedConsumer

Actually UDI ownership doesn't have to impact M F's vs a straight deeded week but being in the Trust, with it's own fees and overhead, does tend add cost. Sometimes considerable costs vs straight resort ownership with UDI or deeded weeks. Plus your vote that can carry weight in a single resort Association vs having virtually no impact in the Trust operation. Too many negatives for me. I prefer a deeded week that I can put into a points system IF I desire. Best of both worlds that way. I keep control (vote), keep costs low (pay for my resort that I can vote at only) plus the minimal expense of an "exchange company"(Points system) and can resell what I own (meaning I can get a great resale deal coming in too!). Deeded rights mean I have the protection of real estate law backing my ownership and I cannot lose my ownership for a "rules violation" or a simple missed payment as can be done under Trust "memberships" that are RTU.

Too many minuses in the Trust model for me.

The speculation and conjecture expressed in this thread is nothing short of amazing. I'd love to see Dr. Phil do an analysis of these writings.

Amongst the speculation and conjecture is an assumption by some that whatever new form of ownership that Marriott releases, will be a Right to Use arrangement. What makes those who speculate this think that the new form of ownership will not be deeded, and subject to the real estate laws in the state that Marriott selects to establish their governance? Just down the street from Marriott's offices is the Disney Vacation Club, which offers a points based Vacation Club product that is secured by a deed. We are DVC members and have a deed to attest to our "ownership."
 

billymach4

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Messages
4,192
Reaction score
1,722
Location
Everywhere
Lots of speculation here. This is Marriott's free Focus Group on Creating an internal points system.

We will find out by the end of June for sure. The line in the sand has been drawn.
 

timeos2

Tug Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2005
Messages
11,183
Reaction score
5
Location
Rochester, NY
Some things just can't be done

The speculation and conjecture expressed in this thread is nothing short of amazing. I'd love to see Dr. Phil do an analysis of these writings.

Amongst the speculation and conjecture is an assumption by some that whatever new form of ownership that Marriott releases, will be a Right to Use arrangement. What makes those who speculate this think that the new form of ownership will not be deeded, and subject to the real estate laws in the state that Marriott selects to establish their governance? Just down the street from Marriott's offices is the Disney Vacation Club, which offers a points based Vacation Club product that is secured by a deed. We are DVC members and have a deed to attest to our "ownership."

Nothing to prevent NEW sales, which would have to be at new resorts, from being pure points and/or RTU vs a true deed (Disney "deeds" record your agreement to pay for 4x years of RTU but grant you no actual ownership of any property). But speculating that existing resorts could suddenly be turned into selective (and thus restrictive) fixed use simply because Marriott decides to offer a points based exchange system is beyond speculation of what could happen and steps into the impossible. Deeded ownerships cannot be changed. It is that clear and simple. If a resort is float use now it will still be float use after any announcement that Marriott makes regarding an internal exchange system. That is what a deeded ownership guarantees you and why we prefer them over other possible ownership models.

Speculate all you desire abut how/what a Marriott Points system may offer but locking existing resorts float times into fixed is not a possibility. Forcing owners to join a system is not possible. Take them off the table.
 
E

EducatedConsumer

I occasionally wonder about some participants in a community such as this one. I'm intrigued by people who amass 1000's of posts on a bulletin board like this; is their engagement recreation, I wonder, or signs of some other unique behavioral qualities?

I am struck by all of this speculation in the hundred of posts on this subject, and by the negativity that accompanies some of the speculation. I guess the likelihood of a publicly traded company telling those who exude significant ill will towards the company to take their business elsewhere is unlikely. That's too bad.

The beauty of communities such as this one is that all opinions are welcome. I'm just expressing some thoughts that crossed my mind.
 

SueDonJ

Moderator
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
16,709
Reaction score
5,970
Location
Massachusetts and Hilton Head Island
Resorts Owned
Marriott Barony Beach and SurfWatch
Look out, EC. You're at a couple hundred posts and then BAM! you wake up one day and you've got thousands. All it takes is a little OCD combined with intriguing topics ...

I like the welcoming atmosphere here on TUG, but I LOVE that there is so much opportunity to learn here. Mix in a little humor every once in a while to the serious threads, and the gigantic dose of humanity over in the Lounge threads, and posting on TUG becomes second nature.
 

m61376

Tug Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
7,263
Reaction score
318
Location
NY
Resorts Owned
Marriott Aruba Surf Club 2 & 3BRs
Yep, instant confirmation of exchanges is an enticement all by itself. Add in that my 3BR points will get me a 3BR more than .00001% of the time, or will get me an extra vacation without being at the mercy of II's finicky AC offers, and I'm almost sold.

That's assuming, or course, that when Marriott makes its value calculations your 3BR is awarded enough points to trade into all or at least most of of the other 3 BR's.

Will you feel the same way if you only have enough points to trade into a 2BR at the next new resort?

Don't get me wrong, Sue, I'm just pointing out the flip side to this- IF Marriott chooses a path similar to the AP program than that could be a very real possibility.
 

SueDonJ

Moderator
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
16,709
Reaction score
5,970
Location
Massachusetts and Hilton Head Island
Resorts Owned
Marriott Barony Beach and SurfWatch
That's assuming, or course, that when Marriott makes its value calculations your 3BR is awarded enough points to trade into all or at least most of of the other 3 BR's.

Will you feel the same way if you only have enough points to trade into a 2BR at the next new resort?

Don't get me wrong, Sue, I'm just pointing out the flip side to this- IF Marriott chooses a path similar to the AP program than that could be a very real possibility.

Right, I'm assuming that a 3BR at my certain highly-valued resort will be allotted more points in any new system than a 2BR at the same or a similar resort, based on the fact that Marriott charges a higher purchase price for the extra bedroom. I'd be very surprised if all units - efficiencies, 1BR, 2BR, 3BR - within a same resort will be allotted the same number of points, but if it happens that would certainly change my thinking.

And we've been all up, down and around what you call "points inflation" for the newer resorts as they're brought on line, m. I know you find it difficult to believe and I don't know how many different ways it can be said so that you do believe it, but I do expect and will be okay with the newer resorts having higher point costs than the established resorts if the amenities of the newer resorts are that much superior to the established. Within II now there is definite disparity in the exchange value of the existing resorts, as evidenced by the many "will my XYZ resort pull an ABC resort?" questions here on TUG. Why wouldn't we expect a similar disparity in any other exchange system? The difference will be that in Marriott's system we'll know up front how much value we own, as opposed to II's unpublished guessing game.
 
Last edited:

Asia2000

TUG Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2010
Messages
382
Reaction score
1
Right, I'm assuming that a 3BR at my certain highly-valued resort will be allotted more points in any new system than a 2BR at the same or a similar resort, based on the fact that Marriott charges a higher purchase price for the extra bedroom. I'd be very surprised if all units - efficiencies, 1BR, 2BR, 3BR - within a same resort will be allotted the same number of points, but if it happens that would certainly change my thinking.

And we've been all up, down and around what you call "points inflation" for the newer resorts as they're brought on line, m. I know you find it difficult to believe and I don't know how many different ways it can be said so that you do believe it, but I do expect and will be okay with the newer resorts having higher point costs than the established resorts if the amenities of the newer resorts are that much superior to the established. Within II now there is definite disparity in the exchange value of the existing resorts, as evidenced by the many "will my XYZ resort pull an ABC resort?" questions here on TUG. Why wouldn't we expect a similar disparity in any other exchange system? The difference will be that in Marriott's system we'll know up front how much value we own, as opposed to II's unpublished guessing game.

I think your 3 bedroom point value will be the equivalent to a 2 bedroom + a studio value. For example, a studio is worth 10,000. A one bedroom 20,000. A two bedroom 30,000 (The one bedroom + a studio would equal 30,000 in a lock-off situation). A three bedroom 40,000. This is assuming all units fall in the same season (ie. Platinum or Gold, etc.).

The extra week or bonus opportunity (upgrading or turning one week into two or turning two weeks into three) would occur through 10,000 point flexchanges that would be booked within 59 days or less. From what I understand, you can currently upgrade today within II, possibly up to one year in advance by depositing your week/weeks/lock-offs, etc. This is whole lot better than 59 days out.
 

dougp26364

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
14,700
Reaction score
3,498
Location
Kansas
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grand Chateau
Marriott Shadow Ridge
Marriott Ocean Pointe
Marriott Destination Club Points
Hilton Grand Vacation Club Las Vegas Blvd
Grand Colorado on Peak 8
Spinnaker French Quarter Resort Branson
You forgot to mention that once you were in the UDI, the club dues and M F's went up big time.


Which is one reason I did not join one of DRI's trusts. The MF's for my weeks was less expensive than the trust MF's. I'm pretty certain I've mentioned that somewhere in this thread as to one reason why I'm not a huge trust based ownership fan. Owners at the more expensive resorts may see their MF's go down. Owners at resorts with lower MF's would most likely see their MF's go up. In a trust, the MF's are based on the total MF's paid by the trust to the HOA's, then divided by the number of points outstanding in the trust. In essence all owners are paying an average MF of all the resort weeks in the trust. Note that I did not say of all the resorts in the trust but all the resort weeks in the trust. If the trust is top heavy with the highest MF's and has very few of the lower MF weeks, then the MF's will be skewed towards the higher end.

My biggest problem with trust based ownership is the loss of voting rights. I'm not comfortable giving the trust manager the right to vote for me. I'm really hoping that Marriott will simply come out with a points overlay internal exchange system where owners retain their deeded week. We have assumed that it may be a trust based ownership based on Fletch's statement that he was of the understanding there would be no home resort advantage. Since none of us heard the conversatioin nor do we know how accurate the source might have been, none of us will know until Marriott makes some sort of announcement.
 

dougp26364

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
14,700
Reaction score
3,498
Location
Kansas
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grand Chateau
Marriott Shadow Ridge
Marriott Ocean Pointe
Marriott Destination Club Points
Hilton Grand Vacation Club Las Vegas Blvd
Grand Colorado on Peak 8
Spinnaker French Quarter Resort Branson
I occasionally wonder about some participants in a community such as this one. I'm intrigued by people who amass 1000's of posts on a bulletin board like this; is their engagement recreation, I wonder, or signs of some other unique behavioral qualities?

I am struck by all of this speculation in the hundred of posts on this subject, and by the negativity that accompanies some of the speculation. I guess the likelihood of a publicly traded company telling those who exude significant ill will towards the company to take their business elsewhere is unlikely. That's too bad.

The beauty of communities such as this one is that all opinions are welcome. I'm just expressing some thoughts that crossed my mind.

We're just one big happy family who likes to really hash things out over time. Even if it is all guesswork.

And keep in mind that if everyone on these forums only posted 160 comments in 5 years, there'd be darn little information on these forums for people to read.
 
Last edited:

SueDonJ

Moderator
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
16,709
Reaction score
5,970
Location
Massachusetts and Hilton Head Island
Resorts Owned
Marriott Barony Beach and SurfWatch
I think your 3 bedroom point value will be the equivalent to a 2 bedroom + a studio value. For example, a studio is worth 10,000. A one bedroom 20,000. A two bedroom 30,000 (The one bedroom + a studio would equal 30,000 in a lock-off situation). A three bedroom 40,000. This is assuming all units fall in the same season (ie. Platinum or Gold, etc.).

The extra week or bonus opportunity (upgrading or turning one week into two or turning two weeks into three) would occur through 10,000 point flexchanges that would be booked within 59 days or less. From what I understand, you can currently upgrade today within II, possibly up to one year in advance by depositing your week/weeks/lock-offs, etc. This is whole lot better than 59 days out.

What you're figuring for values is what I would expect, that among similar valued resorts a 3BR would be equal to another 3BR or a 2BR with a studio or a 1BR plus two studios, etc... Among all of the resorts, a 3BR could be worth more or less depending on the overall rating of the specific resorts. (In other words, what I'd get on Hilton Head during Platinum season might be more than what I'd get in Hawaii, or less than what I'd get in Silver season or at an Orlando resort.) That sounds okay, fair even. And I love the idea of lower point costs throughout the system during a flexchange-type period.

What happens now with my 3BR non-lockoff in II isn't as fair. 3BR inventory is extremely limited so up to this point I've had to accept 2BR units in exchanges regardless of whether the exchange resort is of more or less quality than what I own, with an AC only some of those times that could be upgraded during flexchange. Other than the possibility of an AC, if an exchange to a 3BR is next to impossible, I can't imagine that I could get in II an upgrade from a 3BR no matter when the request is made.

Like I've said, though, the way exchanges work in II is what I've expected because that's how it was explained by the Marriott salesperson. If Marriott doesn't roll out something new here I'll still be satisfied with II, but I am optimistic that what Marriott may offer might work better for me. We'll see.
 

PerryM

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,282
Reaction score
2
The rules of engagement...

I occasionally wonder about some participants in a community such as this one. I'm intrigued by people who amass 1000's of posts on a bulletin board like this; is their engagement recreation, I wonder, or signs of some other unique behavioral qualities?

I am struck by all of this speculation in the hundred of posts on this subject, and by the negativity that accompanies some of the speculation. I guess the likelihood of a publicly traded company telling those who exude significant ill will towards the company to take their business elsewhere is unlikely. That's too bad.

The beauty of communities such as this one is that all opinions are welcome. I'm just expressing some thoughts that crossed my mind.

The aggressor, in any battle, sets the rules.

Marriott has had an active rumor campaign going on for 4 years now bashing me the resale owner.

This is a hostile campaign designed to hurt each of us by warning folks to stay away from resales; the net result is a lowering of our resale value when each of us sells.

I think its despicable and a harbinger of what Marriott intends to do to us with their new scheme to milk us for more money. We have a perfectly good week based system that is going to be thrown in the trash so Marriott can just charge us money to use what we already own.

Folks who seem confused and aghast with anything negative about Marriott just don't understand the battle we are in and the battle we are about to undertake next week.

Good luck to all of us...
 

DanCali

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
4,647
Reaction score
1,940
Resorts Owned
Vistana, Marriott, DVC
Folks who seem confused and aghast with anything negative about Marriott just don't understand the battle we are in and the battle we are about to undertake next week.

Good luck to all of us...

Perry - I notice you link two websites in your signature.

Why not start another and call it "The Truth About The Marriott Points Program and How You Can Avoid Falling Victim"?

Seems like a good start for a long battle...
 

Asia2000

TUG Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2010
Messages
382
Reaction score
1
What you're figuring for values is what I would expect, that among similar valued resorts a 3BR would be equal to another 3BR or a 2BR with a studio or a 1BR plus two studios, etc... Among all of the resorts, a 3BR could be worth more or less depending on the overall rating of the specific resorts. (In other words, what I'd get on Hilton Head during Platinum season might be more than what I'd get in Hawaii, or less than what I'd get in Silver season or at an Orlando resort.) That sounds okay, fair even. And I love the idea of lower point costs throughout the system during a flexchange-type period.

What happens now with my 3BR non-lockoff in II isn't as fair. 3BR inventory is extremely limited so up to this point I've had to accept 2BR units in exchanges regardless of whether the exchange resort is of more or less quality than what I own, with an AC only some of those times that could be upgraded during flexchange. Other than the possibility of an AC, if an exchange to a 3BR is next to impossible, I can't imagine that I could get in II an upgrade from a 3BR no matter when the request is made.

Like I've said, though, the way exchanges work in II is what I've expected because that's how it was explained by the Marriott salesperson. If Marriott doesn't roll out something new here I'll still be satisfied with II, but I am optimistic that what Marriott may offer might work better for me. We'll see.

Sue,

I think it is safe to say that the point value for your 3 bedroom will be based on a combination of MFs and the list cost of what Marriott sells your unit for now (or would sell it for if it was available). If you have a floating week, it is my hope that all floating weeks would receive the same value, no matter what the deed says. If they go by the deed, then certainly people would not be receiving what they purchased as some platinum weeks have much lower TDIs. If you are unable to lockoff your 3 bedroom, you might like the idea of points. I hope it is only $159 extra per year, but from what I read, it seems like the $1,250 is more along the lines of what will happen (based on the survey of course, not real facts).

I think most deeded owners would rather pay a one time fee, than an annual fee. I mean seriously, over 40 years, that is a whole ton of money, not even calculating possible interest and dividends if that money was invested.

Maybe TUG can giveaway a free Marriott timeshare to the TUGger who posts the program first. I think I'm going to step away for a few days as I feel like too much time has gone into something that I have no control over.

Does anyone know how many Marriott owners participated in a survey? Was it a majority or a minority? Has Marriott provided any feedback from the surveys? Certainly they would want to go to market with something people like and would be comfortable with? Big changes with no testing or feedback I would think is full of risk and not wise. My guess is that top shareholders would be informed as to what is happening.
 

PerryM

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,282
Reaction score
2
Perry - I notice you link two websites in your signature.

Why not start another and call it "The Truth About The Marriott Points Program and How You Can Avoid Falling Victim"?

Seems like a good start for a long battle...

Thanks, great idea...
 

m61376

Tug Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
7,263
Reaction score
318
Location
NY
Resorts Owned
Marriott Aruba Surf Club 2 & 3BRs
Right, I'm assuming that a 3BR at my certain highly-valued resort will be allotted more points in any new system than a 2BR at the same or a similar resort, based on the fact that Marriott charges a higher purchase price for the extra bedroom. I'd be very surprised if all units - efficiencies, 1BR, 2BR, 3BR - within a same resort will be allotted the same number of points, but if it happens that would certainly change my thinking.

And we've been all up, down and around what you call "points inflation" for the newer resorts as they're brought on line, m. I know you find it difficult to believe and I don't know how many different ways it can be said so that you do believe it, but I do expect and will be okay with the newer resorts having higher point costs than the established resorts if the amenities of the newer resorts are that much superior to the established. Within II now there is definite disparity in the exchange value of the existing resorts, as evidenced by the many "will my XYZ resort pull an ABC resort?" questions here on TUG. Why wouldn't we expect a similar disparity in any other exchange system? The difference will be that in Marriott's system we'll know up front how much value we own, as opposed to II's unpublished guessing game.
Sue-
I agree with you (I know, a shocker ;)) that IF a newer resort is really a higher quality and IF it is in a location that demands a higher rental price point (since what something rents for, at least for me, reflects an objective valuation between different properties, since Marriott sets rental rates for all properties ties to the same evaluative tool- the number of dollars it costs, presumable related to the amount someone is willing to pay) then it deserves a higher valuation. Where we disagree is that IF a new resort is built with more amenities but in a location that doesn't command the rental price on the fair market, then the valuations should also reflect that. For instance, they built Marco upscale and charged a ludicrous price for the units, but that doesn't make them worth it. If Marriott can't rent Marco for more money than let's say a summer HH week (and I haven't checked, so I am just using an example here) then regardless of the quality, the location may not demand the price, and the points allotted shouldn't be more.

I guess where we disagree is that I think location plays perhaps as big or bigger a part in the value formula as quality. On the other hand, if the next resort is a HH built to Marco specs, for example, then I would expect it to have a higher valuation set.

So, I am ok with newer resorts having higher values set IF both the amenities and the location dictate higher value. There is a reason why even exactly the same quality building commands a different price in different locations. What I am NOT ok with is if Marriott feels it has carte blanche to set values in order to convey a sense of "enhanced" value and promote sales, which is a real possibility if it retains a home resort system. Starwood has done it, and it hasn't benefited anyone.

Using the Starwood example- ask a non Harborside or non-WSJ owner if they can ever reserve prime weeks through the Starwood system at the 8 month mark. Part of the reason there is that unit values were set years back, and newer resorts but in less prime locations in some instances have a higher point valuation, so owners there either use or rent, or trade privately.

I am not saying Marriott will play fast and loose, but I am concerned that they will set valuations based on their own agenda, esp. in the future, which may leave current owners short and, as I've illustrated with the Starwood example, may not be good for either current or future buyers, who would likely suffer from a lack of availability of some great current resorts if that's the case.

It goes without saying that I'd expect different unit sized to be allotted different points.

And I could envision an ideal system where having the flexibility of points, switching between 2 or 3 BR units (or smaller) depending upon one's needs, would be a great option and allow for maximum flexibility as family dynamics change. I am just not sure that if Marriott has additional latitude that it will always do what's best for you and me.
 

tombo

Tug Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
3,224
Reaction score
2
Location
Mississippi (but a Bama fan)
What is going to be funny is the situation where you have a hard time getting a reservation to talk to a sales rep once this thing is rolled out. There is so much interest, information, and misinformation floating around that people who never attend sales presentations anymore (like myself) will be asking to attend one to find out how this program is going to work. It will be sad if they start telling us we have an opening wed at 4 or Fri at 8, and other than that we can't work you in this week.

Dang I wonder if we will have to offer the salesmen gifts to see us. I will give you a ham and cheese sandwich and a new bic razor if you will give me an hour and a half points presentation, but you must talk to me for an hour and a half minimum to receive your gifts............
 

PerryM

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,282
Reaction score
2
Buy - Rent - two different worlds

EVERY Point based timeshare system faces two huge "numbers" which make or break the system:

  • Selling price of Point
  • Renting price of Point

One has nothing to do with the other.

Take the example of a whole-ownership condo. The selling price is not related to the renting price. Same with a Point based timeshare organization.

Selling price of Point
The Sales price has everything to do with purchasing forces of supply and demand. A free real estate market determines a "fair" price for both the buyer and seller and it's called the independent real estate appraisal.

Timeshares, of course, have no such thing so its really up to the developer to set an imaginary price, so full of pork, that they bribe folks just to sit through a 90 minute high pressure sales pitch for a gift.

So a 3rd party is not available to help us with purchase price of timeshares; the free market can't help establish the real purchase price of a Point.

Renting price of Point
The renting price of a Point is very easy to come up with - it is 100% related to what the pubic would pay cold cash for to rent it.

Lots of dribble here about all kinds of things but rental rates are the ONLY way to let a 3rd party voice its opinion - I know of no other free market mechanism. Is it perfect? You better believe its as perfect as a human system can get.

Back to our condo example: A 2BR condo on Kaanapali Beach rents for $450 a night on the average lets say. An identical 2BR condo on the hottest beach in Miami rents for $650 a night, lets say. How can this be?

Simple, getting to Maui requires an additional cost for a family of $4,000, lets say, and they factor that into their comparison between Maui and a 4 hour car ride to Miami costing them $70 in gas round trip.

Maui owners can't demand $650 plus a premium for Maui - they must listen to their renters. Here the free market factors everything into account.

Will Marriott base it's Points based upon rental rates between the various resorts? Hell no, my bet is that the purchase price will impact the rental price which in the real world has only the slightest correlation.

This is the problem of mixing a sales system with a rental system and the free market becomes a joke after work at a bar.
 
E

EducatedConsumer

The aggressor, in any battle, sets the rules.

Marriott has had an active rumor campaign going on for 4 years now bashing me the resale owner.

This is a hostile campaign designed to hurt each of us by warning folks to stay away from resales; the net result is a lowering of our resale value when each of us sells.

I think its despicable and a harbinger of what Marriott intends to do to us with their new scheme to milk us for more money. We have a perfectly good week based system that is going to be thrown in the trash so Marriott can just charge us money to use what we already own.

Folks who seem confused and aghast with anything negative about Marriott just don't understand the battle we are in and the battle we are about to undertake next week.

Good luck to all of us...

Boy, Dr. Phil could fill a season analyzing the writings on this forum.

My bet is that there's no battle, other than for the varieties of people who enjoy confrontation, or those who's lives may be so incomplete that they fill their day trolling the Internet. From what I've heard, Marriott will reclasify all unsold developer inventory and all new inventory into their new product form, leaving existing owners to decide on their own (without a gun held to their head) whether they want to "keep things as is (for them)" or voluntarily change (for a fee) the form of their ownership to the new form.

If this is true, I'm left to wonder how MVCI resorts will be governed moving forward. I wonder if the new product form owners will be members of their own "Association" and if the new owners will be represented on the existing HOA's by representatives of a new Association, with individuals designated by that new Association casting votes on the existing HOA's (e.g. unsold inventory at Shadow Ridge, where there is an existing HOA in place and unsold developer inventory).

I won't begin to speculate, but I will wait to hear/read credible information released by Marriott, not conjecture by non-agents of Marriott.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

indyhorizons

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2006
Messages
426
Reaction score
0
Boy, Dr. Phil could fill a season analyzing the writings on this forum.

My bet is that there's no battle, other than for the varieties of people who enjoy confrontation, or those who's lives may be so incomplete that they fill their day trolling the Internet. From what I've heard, Marriott will reclasify all unsold developer inventory and all new inventory into their new product form, leaving existing owners to decide on their own (without a gun held to their head) whether they want to "keep things as is (for them)" or voluntarily change (for a fee) the form of their ownership to the new form.

If this is true, I'm left to wonder how MVCI resorts will be governed moving forward. I wonder if the new product form owners will be members of their own "Association" and if the new owners will be represented on the existing HOA's by representatives of a new Association, with individuals designated by that new Association casting votes on the existing HOA's (e.g. unsold inventory at Shadow Ridge, where there is an existing HOA in place and unsold developer inventory).

I won't begin to speculate, but I will wait to hear/read credible information released by Marriott, not conjecture by non-agents of Marriott.

I wonder why, if you think this thread is such a collosal waste of time, do I keep coming back finding posts from you. Just curious.... Or is it to show us how superior you are to the rest of us obvious unfulfilled people. Give me a break...:rolleyes:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top