Club Points Overlay Program (CPOP) for Phuket Beach Owners / Week into AP club points

I just received an email from one of the sales agents at our own home resort in Phuket. Basically they are offering us to exchange our annual week into MVCI Asia-Pacific (MVCI AP)"Club Points".

Beeing quite often at our home resort as well as beeing guest of a sales tour in Singapore i do know the program details of MVCI AP quite well and always considered it an overall "bad value" compared to the week based system. However the points programm does offer some options which might be worthwhile if played the right way (mainly II Flexchange using club points & Express Breaks). Therefore i have a slight interest in becoming a member IF they drop the minimum amount of points purchased or they offer a real big incentive to buy those points.

Sadly, the email offer from today is nothing but a joke. According to the email MVCI Phuket’s week owners can receive AP Club Points equivalent to the value of their week that they own.

Gold = 20.700
Platinum = 32.700
Platinum-Plus = 60.300

Those figures are equal the number of club points needed to reserve the respective week within the MVCI AP system. However if you want to exchange your week into club points you must pay a one time fee of USD 5,000. There is a small discount (15%) for members who decide quickly to switch to the point system or for members who purchase additional club points (up to 100% if you purchase 30k club points).

Knowing the AP point system and looking back at our personal week usage in the past they could pay me those 5.000 USD and i would not go for the week system -> point system transformation.

I havent read much about MVCI AP details on that board (if all) but i am not a regular guest either so i might have missed it. Anyway if anyone does want some more info about it i am happy to share my knowledge.

If this is what they have planned for the US based system, that is to pay $5,000 just to convert what they already own into points, I think they can pretty well forget about that.

We own at Phuket as well. No email yet. We own Gold season. Sounds like no deal!

Starbucks said:

I havent read much about MVCI AP details on that board (if all) but i am not a regular guest either so i might have missed it. Anyway if anyone does want some more info about it i am happy to share my knowledge.

Click to expand...

I think a lot of people here would be interested in the details of the AP points system. Are there other resorts in the system and can you directly book the other resorts with some home resort priority? Are the resorts rated differently points-wise? If you have the time to explain the system I know I would be interested and I'd venture to guess a lot of us would be. Thanks.

Hmmm- according to this post:

Mapletown said:

The price as of Oct., 2008 was $1.25 per point for the minimum purchase of 12000 points, for a total of $15000. (Unit price would be cheaper when you purchase more points. I purchased the minimum points of 12000.)
Annual club dues as of Jan., 2009 are $0.027 per point for 12000 points, that is $324.

Any external exchanges to II are made from our club points which are defined by size of unit and TDI (Travel Demand Index). The number of required points as of 2008 and 2009 are ranging from 10000 to 85000,
- 10000p (studio) to 32500p (three BR) for low season (TDI of 50 to 80)
- 15000p (studio) to 45000p (three BR) for moderate season (TDI of 80 to 120)
- 27500p (studio) to 85000p (three BR) for high season (TDI of 120 to 150+)
- 10000p for Flex Change (59days or less) any type of unit and any season

This membership expires on a year of 2056.


Thanks,

Click to expand...

a Platinum 2 BR unit at Phuket would only qualify for a studio exchange during high season elsewhere with a few thousand points left over, and a Gold 2BR wouldn't even qualify for a studio trade in moderate season through II, if I am understanding Starbucks' figures and the above numbers correctly.

Am I missing something??

I might be wrong ( it has been known before ) but i think ASIAN points are not the same as Marriott rewards points.
When we went to Phuket in jan we looked round the new marriott place down the round from Phuket beach ( not as nice by the way) and the whole system is slightly different and is based on a points basis with all the other asian resorts. i can't remember the details of how it worked but I seem to recall it gave slightly better flexibility and was ok but was not a great offer. However I wouldn't pay that much to join the scheme

Mr. Vker said:

We own at Phuket as well. No email yet. We own Gold season. Sounds like no deal!

Click to expand...

Well, the email i got yesterday stated that the offer is limited to the first 500 Phuket's owners only. I thought its a marketing phrase...

m61376 said:

I think a lot of people here would be interested in the details of the AP points system. Are there other resorts in the system and can you directly book the other resorts with some home resort priority? Are the resorts rated differently points-wise? If you have the time to explain the system I know I would be interested and I'd venture to guess a lot of us would be. Thanks.

Click to expand...

I am going to write a more detailed post tonight.

m61376 said:

...a Platinum 2 BR unit at Phuket would only qualify for a studio exchange during high season elsewhere with a few thousand points left over, and a Gold 2BR wouldn't even qualify for a studio trade in moderate season through II, if I am understanding Starbucks' figures and the above numbers correctly.

Am I missing something??

Click to expand...

Nope you are spot on.

Programm details / MVCI Asia-Pacific / Points System

As some of you seem to be interested; here are some more details about the MVCI Asian-Pacific Point System:

Programm is membership and point based and will end in 2056. FYI: Our regular Phuket weeks expire in 2081.

There are 4 options how you can use your points:

1) Club Resorts & Club Connections

Current Club Resorts are

• Ko´Olina, Hawai
• Waiohai Beach Club, Hawai
• Phuket Beach Club, Phuket
• Mai Khao Beach Club; Phuket
• MVCI at the Empire Place, Bangkok
• Grand Chateau, Las Vegas

Sales agent told me that they will quickly add other locations but i have not heard of any additional right now.

Current Club Connections are

• Mayfair Executive Apartments, Bangkok
• Courtyard Surfers Paradise, Australia
• 2 Macdonnel Road, Hong Kong
• Renaissance Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
• Hua Hin Marriott Resort & Spa, Thailand
• Okinawa Marriott Resort & Spa, Japan
• Renaissance Koh Samui, Thailand
• Ritz-Carlton, Bali (hotel rooms only, no Cliff or Pool Villa)

Note: Club Connections resorts are not part of the MVCI AP inventory. They are not owned, managed or operated by the club. They are only provided as an alternative accomodation for Club Members´convenience....

Usage:

Members can use their points for stays at above locations. Number of points required is based on

• Resort
• Season
• Unit
• Day of the week

Point cost is calculated per night, there is no discount if you stay a whole week. Point cost for weekday nights are the cheapest, Sunday night is in the middle and Friday and Saturday nights are the most expensive.

There are only 3 different seasons availabe at above locations: Gold, Platinum and Platinum-Plus. No bronze or silver within MVCI AP.
The Asian locations as well as the location in Australia do offer a Gold Season whereas the locations in the US only offer Platinum and Platinum-Plus.

IIRC there is no minimum stay, so basically you can use your points for Mon-Thurs. nights only or even one night stays.

See next post for detailed cost structure.

Starbucks- oops- I posted that I was looking forward to reading your post and then it was already posted. Well- looking forward to the next post

The interesting thing about this is that my impression of things (although it is just the gist I got from talking to people) is that the AP points program is the forerunner of what Marriott intends to launch overall, so I think critically looking at the AP program will be very revealing.

We may find that Marriott launches a points program plan and keeps week for week trading unchanged within II until they see how the (or if the) plan takes off.

This portends to be a very interesting post and I am sure ensuing discussion.

Point cost structure of MVCI AP locations

Below are the point requirements for the current MVCI AP club resorts. Cost are shown per night (or week total):

Ko´Olina, Hawai

Day/Platinum/Platinum-Plus

Studio

Mon-Thurs/2,500/3,000
Fri-Sat/4,400/5,300
Sun/3,500/4,200
Week/22,300/26,800

1 Bedroom

Mon-Thurs/3,600/4,300
Fri-Sat/6,300/7,600
Sun/5,100/6,100
Week/32,100/38,500

2 Bedroom

Mon-Thurs/5,500/6,600
Fri-Sat/9,600/11,600
Sun/7,700/9,300
Week/48,900/58,900

Waiohai Beach Club, Hawai

Day/Platinum/Platinum-Plus

2 Bedroom Island View

Mon-Thurs/5,500/6,600
Fri-Sat/9,500/11,500
Sun/7,700/9,300
Week/48,700/58,700

2 Bedroom Ocean View

Mon-Thurs/6,300/7,600
Fri-Sat/10,900/13,300
Sun/8,800/10,600
Week/55,800/67,600

Grand Chateau, Las Vegas

Day/Platinum/Platinum-Plus

Studio

Mon-Thurs/2,000/2,800
Fri-Sat/3,400/4,900
Sun/2,700/3,900
Week/17,500/24,900

1 Bedroom

Mon-Thurs/2,800/4,000
Fri-Sat/4,900/7,000
Sun/3,900/5,600
Week/24,900/35,600

2 Bedroom

Mon-Thurs/4,300/6,100
Fri-Sat/7,400/10,700
Sun/6,000/8,600
Week/38,000/54,400

No 3 Bedroom unit via MVCI AP.

Phuket Beach Club, Thailand

Day/Gold/Platinum/Platinum-Plus

2 Bedroom

Mon-Thurs/2,300/3,700/6,800
Fri-Sat/4,100/6,400/11,800
Sun/3,300/5,100/9,500
Week/20,700/32,700/60,300

Mai Khao Beach Club, Phuket, Thailand

Day/Gold/Platinum/Platinum-Plus

2 Bedroom

Mon-Thurs/2,300/3,700/6,800
Fri-Sat/4,100/6,400/11,800
Sun/3,300/5,100/9,500
Week/20,700/32,700/60,300

2 Bedroom Pool Villa

Mon-Thurs/2,700/4,200/7,800
Fri-Sat/4,700/7,400/13,600
Sun/3,700/5,900/10,900
Week/23,900/37,500/69,300

MVCI at Empire Place, Bangkok, Thailand

Day/Gold/Platinum/Platinum-Plus

1 Bedroom

Mon-Thurs/1,500/2,400/4,400
Fri-Sat/2,600/4,100/7,600
Sun/2,100/3,300/6,100
Week/13,300/21,100/38,900

2 Bedroom

Mon-Thurs/2,300/3,700/6,800
Fri-Sat/4,100/6,400/11,800
Sun/3,300/5,100/9,500
Week/20,700/32,700/60,300

3 Bedroom

Mon-Thurs/3,400/5,300/9,800
Fri-Sat/5,900/9,300/17,100
Sun/4,700/7,400/13,700
Week/30,100/47,200/87,100

Club connections to follow....

Below are the point requirements for the current MVCI Club Connection Resorts. Cost are shown per night (or week total):

Mayfair Executive Apartments, Bangkok, Thailand

Day/Gold/Platinum/Platinum-Plus

1 Bedroom

Mon-Thurs/1,500/2,400/4,400
Fri-Sat/2,600/4,100/7,600
Sun/2,100/3,300/6,100
Week/13,300/21,100/38,900

2 Bedroom

Mon-Thurs/2,300/3,700/6,800
Fri-Sat/4,100/6,400/11,800
Sun/3,300/5,100/9,500
Week/20,700/32,700/60,300

Courtyard Surfers Paradise, Australia

Day/Gold/Platinum/Platinum-Plus

Resort Room

Mon-Thurs/1,000/1,400/2,400
Fri-Sat/1,700/2,400/4,100
Sun/1,300/1,900/3,300
Week/8,700/12,300/21,100

Resort Room Ocean View

Mon-Thurs/1,200/2,100/1,700
Fri-Sat/2,100/2,900/5,100
Sun/1,700/2,400/4,100
Week/10,700/15,000/25,900

2 Macdonnell Road, Hong Kong

Day/Gold/Platinum/Platinum-Plus

Studio Suite

Mon-Thurs/1,600/1,900/2,800
Fri-Sat/2,700/3,200/4,900
Sun/2,200/2,600/4,000
Week/14,000/16,600/25,000

1 Bedroom

Mon-Thurs/2,600/3,000/4,700
Fri-Sat/4,500/5,300/8,100
Sun/3,600/4,200/6,500
Week/23,000/26,800/41,500

2 Bedroom

Mon-Thurs/3,100/3,700/5,600
Fri-Sat/5,400/6,400/9,800
Sun/4,300/5,100/7,900
Week/27,500/32,700/49,900

Point info on additional Club Connections resorts in Asia to follow soon.

Basic financial info to follow below...

Financial Info & Maintenance Fees

Points-Purchase Price

The current ASK-prices by MVCI AP are as follows:

12,000- 18,000 = US$1.25 a Point

20,000- 28,000 = US$1.15 a Point

30,000 upward = US$1.05 a Point

Discount on higher purchases will be given on the whole amount; so a 30,000 point purchase costs US$ 31,500. Purchasing 18,000 and 28,000 points is a bad idea.

For the initial investment a minimum purchase of 12,000 points is set, once you are in the system you are able to purchase less points (iirc 2,000 minimum).

Maintenance Fee

Current maintenance fee is US$ 0.027 per Club point. Maintenance Fees are not based on the specific location but the whole system. There is no "cheap Maintenance fee"-Location. Maintenance Fee is calculated in USD but i have no idea how exchange rates have an influence on future MF amounts.

Also there is no (official) discount for higher point values; so your 30,000 point purchase will cost US$ 810 maintenance fee. The more points you buy, the more maintenance fee you pay. As usual the maintenance fee per point is not fixed and is likely to increase over time.

Some Calculations

Just a few calculations using above pricing info and the also posted point prices.

One week in a 2 Bedroom unit during Platinum Season at the Phuket Beach Club will cost 32,700 points. That means you must purchase 34.000 points (due to 2k steps) for an initial investment of US$ 35,700 and an annual MF of US$ 918 at least. FYI: AFAIK the last Platinum weeks sold under the old week programm were close to US$ 30.000; 2009 MF for the week system came in at THB 26.200 which equal US$ 765 at the moment.

One week in a 2 Bedroom unit during Platinum Season at Ko´Olina, Hawai will cost 48,900 points (=50,000 points for US$ 52,500) and US$ 1,350 MF.

One week in a 1 Bedroom unit during Platinum Season at Grand Chateau, Las Vegas will cost 24,900 points (=26,000 points for US$ 29,900) and US$ 702 MF.

Point usage for other MVCI resorts and Interval next.

Using Points for other MVCI exchanges and Interval International

Back to the options how one can use MVCI AP club points

2) and 3) Usage for MVCI Resorts and Interval International

Point value needed to exchange to other MVCI resorts or Interval International location is based strictly on Interval´s Travel Demand Index and unit size. Not sure if this has already changed but i think exchanges to other non MVCI AP resorts or II partner resorts are only available on a weekly basis.

There are three Travel Demand Seasons within the scheme LOW (TDI 50 to 80), MODERATE (TDI 80 to 120), HIGH (TDI 120 to 150+).

As already quoted in the thread above, the price structure for a week is as follows:

Low/Moderate/High

Studio

10,000/15,000/27,500

1 Bedroom

15,000/23,000/42,500

2 Bedroom

23,000/32,500/60,000

3 Bedroom

32,500/45,000/85,000

In addition, there is a Flexchange option which allows to exchange 10.000 club points into any season and any unit (as usual based on availability).

I am not doing examples at that stage but comparing option 2 vs option 1 does lead to some interesting results if choosing the right TDI week.

Fees

Exchanging into other regular MVCI resorts costs US$ 99 per week, exchanging into other II resorts costs US$ 149 per week.

4) Exchanging Club points into Marriott Reward Points

Watch out, that one is funny:

MVCI AP members have the option to exchange their club points into Marriott Rewards (MR) Points.

Current exchange rate to do that is 1:5.
So 20,000 club points will result in a 100,000 MR point credit.

Thats an incredible deal after you figure out that you still have to pay a maintenance fee of 0,027 US$ per point and an exchange fee of US$ 129 per transaction. Finally your 100.000 MR points will have cost you US$ 669 wheras the same number of points purchased directly from Marriott will cost US$ 1,250 (50k MR points limit per account per anno though). Real cash value of that point transaction is therefore US$ 581 for your 20,000 club points.

Finally Marriott does think about their future meaning that the exchange rate 1:5 is only fixed until 2020. Starting at 2021 it will drop to 1:3. Sales agents sure mention that this is not set in stone yet and it is likely that they will modify it again.

wow- very informative posts- thanks!
One of the things I find interesting is that as long as you can use II for Marriott exchanges you can do well, since all exchanges through II for another Marriott week require the same number of points.

What is very concerning is that there is a vast difference between point value at different resorts even in the same season- so that your 2BR Plat. week would only be worth a 1BR at ko'Olina, for example.

The 1:5 trade for points ratio is interesting and it is interesting that it changes in 12 years, since the value of the points for use will likely have been devalued several times over.

I wonder how they balance the fact that owners of the same week at the same resort but having bought into 2 different systems will, in essence, be paying 2 different MF's? According to the MF structure, those owning enough points to be considered Platinum will be paying higher MF's than those owning enough points for a Gold unit at the same resort. They are maintaining a uniform MF across properties and per point, rather than by resort. Will costs amongst different properties be distributed, rather than owners at a specific resort being responsible for repairs, etc. at that specific resort?

I am assuming that points now are being sold just as points and not as ownership at a specific resort- is that correct? And can weeks be booked then at any resort at the 12 month mark? From what is posted, it doesn't seem like there is any home week ownership or preference and expenses are shared across the board at all properties. Does that make HOAs obsolete in such a system?

Additional feature: Express Breaks

As an additional feature MVCI AP does offer members a special option "Express Breaks".

I have heard two different versions how those work exactly but i believe it works like this:

Members can purchase up to 3 nights (at once; can add additional nights if available) at the MVCI AP resorts at a special rate.
That rate is calculated by the number of points needed for the night multiplicated with the current cost of MF per point.

So if i want to stay Mon-Thurs. (3nights) within platinum season at Ko´Olina in a 1 Bedroom unit my daily rate would be 3,600 * US$ 0,027 = US$ 97,20.

Other version i heard is that the daily rate is set by the resort based on "maintenance cost". I asked for further details but sales person couldn´t explain it. Anyway, if the resort can set a daily rate it might not be US$ 97,20...

To be honest that additional feature is currently my main reason to be interested in becoming a member of MVCI AP....

Just re-read yesterdays mail and found some infos on future MVCI AP resorts in Macao, Samui (2011) and Australia (2011). I will also add the updated list of Club Connections resorts tomorrow.

Well after reading TUG quite a while and learning how to use my weeks in quite effectiv i do share the concern regarding the different point values at resorts. Within the regular option 1) usage of points MVCI AP offers there is no such thing as "up-trading". If you want to stay at a higher rated resort or during a higher season you must pay additional points. Looking at my personal usage of weeks during the last years, i must admit that i most likely hadn´t had the chance to enjoy the same vacations under the new system.

Looking at published rates during low season at specific resorts or "MOD" discounted rates it becomes clear that owners who had purchased Gold-Weeks late in the game (=high price) or direct from Marriott have only a slim chance to recover the lost interest on the initial investment and the annual maintenance fee by occupying their week at their home resort. Therefore the option of "trading-up" might have been an important reason to buy the TS. So if Marriott is going to introduce "enhancements" to limit up-trading or even exclude it, i know a few members who will not be very happy about such changes.

Going from 1:5 to 1:3 in 2021 is indeed strange. This years massive devaluation of the Travel Package awards and the upcoming "enhancement" to the MVCI awards make me feel comfortable that my week in a 2BDR in Phuket will not get me a week in a Courtyard comes 2021. Therefore exchanging my weeks into MR points was and will not be an option for me (i do not own "point machines").

Well i asked one of my sales guys about that systemwide MF calculation within MVCI AP and he told me that i should see it as a "Risk spread" or diversification.

Points are sold as points only, correct. There is no home resort. IIRC same reservation process as within the regular MVCI but , also IIRC, no 13-month-rule.

So does that mean at the 12 month mark you can call to reserve any property, so that owners who paid $$$ perhaps even for a holiday week would be competing with owners who bought elsewhere but are combining points for that week? There would be no home resort advantage? I wonder what impact that would have on already hard to get weeks at certain properties???

Add to that the further complications of a day rather than a weeks based system reservations might be lots of fun

m61376 said:

So does that mean at the 12 month mark you can call to reserve any property, so that owners who paid $$$ perhaps even for a holiday week would be competing with owners who bought elsewhere but are combining points for that week? There would be no home resort advantage? I wonder what impact that would have on already hard to get weeks at certain properties???

Add to that the further complications of a day rather than a weeks based system reservations might be lots of fun

Click to expand...

I think there will be some home resort period, geez even Wyndham has it.

We have it at DVC, and it works out well as does the 7 month "points are points" window. I've always gotten my reservation, I think you guys would be okay as you know to be on the phone 8:59 am as soon as your booking window opens.

What I would be concerned about is the points into II. With DVC I can call and deposit points(now into RCI, rather than II). But they can pick points from any resort.

If you ever watched DVC in II, what did you see? A lot of January/Feb. in HHI, Aug/Sept at WDW.

Twinkstarr- I would have thought that but reading through Starbuck's post it didn't seem that way, esp. since there were no home resort MF's or the like. It seemed in the Asia Pacific program it was entirely a new entity. And, I agree with you, trading outside the Marriott system we would likely be trading with those extra Bronze season weeks- so forgert about trading up within Marriott, we would likely not get equivalent trades in II (for those owning good weeks).

m61376 said:

Twinkstarr- I would have thought that but reading through Starbuck's post it didn't seem that way, esp. since there were no home resort MF's or the like. It seemed in the Asia Pacific program it was entirely a new entity. And, I agree with you, trading outside the Marriott system we would likely be trading with those extra Bronze season weeks- so forgert about trading up within Marriott, we would likely not get equivalent trades in II (for those owning good weeks).

Click to expand...

That's why I never used DVC with II.

Wonder if waitlisting will be available?

Thanks for all the great information...

One thing I noticed right away when comparing the points for Ko'Olina and
Waiohai. These are two places we like to visit regularly that the points for Ko'Olina are not separated out by view type but at Waiohai they are. I also see for a 2 bedroom island view Waiohai is about 200 points less than a 2 bedroom at Ko'Olina. Kinda of confusing...

Also, do they allow any banking and borrowing like DVC?

In the points based timeshare system I have, it is possible to trade up with last minute RCI exchanges made within 60 days of travel. It is similar to the current flexchange process in II. Instead of a resort requiring 60,000 points during regular reservation times, it's 7500 to 9000 points depending on the resort and size of the unit.

I wouldn't worry about not being able to trade up. Every system needs a process to get rid of last minute inventory in a short amount of time. This is done by drastically reducing the price/points.

ciscogizmo1 said:

Thanks for all the great information...

One thing I noticed right away when comparing the points for Ko'Olina and
Waiohai. These are two places we like to visit regularly that the points for Ko'Olina are not separated out by view type but at Waiohai they are. I also see for a 2 bedroom island view Waiohai is about 200 points less than a 2 bedroom at Ko'Olina. Kinda of confusing...

Also, do they allow any banking and borrowing like DVC?

Click to expand...

That would be too much to ask for. DVC has what I think is the easiest and best banking/borrowing. If Marriott does it there will be some sort of catch to it(can't banked pts in Plat season, etc.)

Twinkstarr said:

That would be too much to ask for. DVC has what I think is the easiest and best banking/borrowing. If Marriott does it there will be some sort of catch to it(can't banked pts in Plat season, etc.)

Click to expand...

But how would I go to Ko'Olina when I own an island view at Waiohai. I'd be 200 points short.

ciscogizmo1 said:

But how would I go to Ko'Olina when I own an island view at Waiohai. I'd be 200 points short.

Click to expand...

And that's one of the big catches I see with the system as currently enacted in the Asia Pacific program. It's anyone's guess as to how it will be rolled out if/when Marriott goes to a points program, but clearly there will be many weeks- even Platinum weeks- which will be insufficient to exchange into a similar sized unit for 7 days at many other Platinum properties. Moreover, fast forward 5 or 10 years down the road, it is likely that newer properties will require even more points for exchanges, so that even current properties deemed as category 7 in their rewards program will not be credited with enough points to exchange for a week in the newer resorts.