13 month advantage fails

A fixed week owner still has to pick a check in day so yes they can

ciscogizmo1 said:

Actually, I think that is too late. Here's how I do it and I've never had issues. I start dialing the number around 8:55 am EST and keep hitting re-dial until the line picks up. I also log-on to my computer and hit refresh until the week is available. Lately, I've noticed the online part is a heck a lot faster but you can only do that for 12 month reservations. However, since online reservations have been available I've discovered at the resorts I own at they never book up. Waiohai has availability for every week next year up to this week. Now, not all check-in dates are available but there is at least one day available. So, I think, if you really want that July week and then, at 12 months you are going to have to have multiple phone lines going and the computer to try and snag a week.

I do the same with camping spots. It is the same game every where. I even discovered how unfair the game is at reserving Yosemite weeks. At least with Marriott, there are rules.

So, my question now is that can a fixed week owner reserve multiple weeks? From your post it sounds like all of July has been reserved. So, do fixed week owners get to start reserving a week earlier. Does that make sense? Because if that is the case, I don't think that is fair. I don't think Fixed week owners should be allowed to reserve multiple weeks.

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Eric said:

A fixed week owner still has to pick a check in day so yes they can

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Not at the MOC as it always falls on Saturday. This may not be the best deal for some of the airlines as mid week would be better so we arrive early and stay a few nights on Waikiki beach which is a plus again.

SueDonJ said:

I think I want to change the wording here a bit, it's bugging me. So ...

"At that point (12-month mark), there is no way that all of any specific unit for an individual calendar week can be "longtime gone."

Ugh, now I'm driving myself batty but that says it better. Maybe.

And of course it makes no difference to what you're saying, that your available inventory was reduced by up to 50% when the 12/13 month reservation policy was implemented "in the old days."

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You are right.

SueDonJ said:

I don't think so because the computers are set to update the inventory at exactly 9amEST. Everyone has to figure their own time difference - folks on the west coast have to call at 6AM their time, you have to call at 2PM your time. ( I think. Time differences give me a headache. )

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Thanks Susan ..not sure you are right. I thought it as a 2pm time for me ..so I phoned at 10am local time to check ..to be told that opening time was 9 am local.
G

Ireland'sCall said:

Thanks Susan ..not sure you are right. I thought it as a 2pm time for me ..so I phoned at 10am local time to check ..to be told that opening time was 9 am local.
G

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Now that would be a VERY interesting loophole that hasn't been exploited, yet, by the folks on this side of the pond! Could you call back again and ask specifically if you can make reservations at your local 9AM time, which is prior to the 9amEST time (that Marriott specifies in all the paperwork?)

SueDonJ said:

Now that would be a VERY interesting loophole that hasn't been exploited, yet, by the folks on this side of the pond! Could you call back again and ask specifically if you can make reservations at your local 9AM time, which is prior to the 9amEST time (that Marriott specifies in all the paperwork?)

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Indeed ..I should have added that as part of my 10 am call I was able to make my reservation for 2 consecetive weeks..but but ! my home resort is in Spain ...maybe its different this side of the world
G

Ireland'sCall said:

Indeed ..I should have added that as part of my 10 am call I was able to make my reservation for 2 consecetive weeks..but but ! my home resort is in Spain ...maybe its different this side of the world
G

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Sorry, I didn't realize that you were able to make a reservation during that call. Doh!

Oh man, time differences give me such a headache! Somebody else needs to figure out the next question to ask about whether or not it matters where your resort is or which number you're calling, because if they don't then I would think any of us over here could call the European office at 9AM their time, which is prior to 9amEST, and get an advantage that way!

DaveM? What am I missing?

Out of interest ,I doubled checked my booking . On May 12 last I booked 2 weeks commencing June 12 2010.
Time on confirmation is 10.08 am ( Greenwich time )which New York time would be 5.08 am.
G

The increase of multiweek owners might be a problem to reserve a good week, but a really great problem is the range of those platinum weeks.

Newport coast has 25 platinum weeks, too much. And 16 of them has demand index bellow 100.

Lakeshore reserve has 2 seasons: platinum and premier platinum. That's 40 platinum weeks, 27 of those platinum have TDI 100 or below, and some with TDI of 60. I think the calender the Palm resorts use reflects the demand a lot better than the new Lakeshore, and of course will reflect trade power a lot better. Why would a lakeshore platinum be a lot better than the same Royal blue (silver)?

Same scenario for Oceana Palms and Ocean Point.

If you have a platinum at Lakeshore reserve, TDI says you have only 2 good weeks (51 and 52), which means you will have the owners of 40 weeks competing for 2 good weeks. No chance! That's the problem, too much platinum owners for just a few good weeks!!

ldanna said:

The increase of multiweek owners might be a problem to reserve a good week, but a really great problem is the range of those platinum weeks.

Newport coast has 25 platinum weeks, too much. And 16 of them has demand index bellow 100.

Lakeshore reserve has 2 seasons: platinum and premier platinum. That's 40 platinum weeks, 27 of those platinum have TDI 100 or below, and some with TDI of 60. I think the calender the Palm resorts use reflects the demand a lot better than the new Lakeshore, and of course will reflect trade power a lot better. Why would a lakeshore platinum be a lot better than the same Royal blue (silver)?

Same scenario for Oceana Palms and Ocean Point.

If you have a platinum at Lakeshore reserve, TDI says you have only 2 good weeks (51 and 52), which means you will have the owners of 40 weeks competing for 2 good weeks. No chance! That's the problem, too much platinum owners for just a few good weeks!!

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The whole system needs a change, that is obvious but making everyone happy will be impossible.

ciscogizmo1 said:

... but still I don't get the logic of owning multiple weeks when you just want one particular week in July. To me it would be a waste of my vacation dollars but that's me.

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What makes you think the people that booked out NCV own their multiple weeks just to book out July 4th??

We own multiple weeks and "string" them together to get what we want. For instance, we stay on HHI every summer for at least 2 weeks and wrap it around a stay at Ocean Point in Florida. Ultimately we are away for 4 to 5 weeks. We "string" our weeks together so that we can go from one place to the next without any gaps. Consecutive week bookings are what the 13 month rule is all about. While I am sorry Joe missed it this year, this booking practice is a terrific perk! and clearly allows us to reserve our summer.

Beverley

Ireland'sCall said:

Out of interest ,I doubled checked my booking . On May 12 last I booked 2 weeks commencing June 12 2010.
Time on confirmation is 10.08 am ( Greenwich time ) which New York time would be 5.08 am.

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That explains what at first seemed to be a violation of Marriott policy. The reason you were able to reserve your weeks is that you called on the second possible day for making your reservations. Had you called on May 11, the first possible day for reserving your dates, you would not have been able to make a reservation until 9:00 a.m., EDT.

When is the first day you can call? 13 months in advance of the first possible check-in date for the first week you want. Because Marbella has Friday check-in dates, the first day you could have called was 13 months ahead of Friday, June 11, 2010. That would have been May 11, 2009. Since you didn't call until May 12, you weren't subject to the 9:00 a.m. EDT limitation.

Would it be any different when calling a local office in Europe than when calling a local office in the U.S.? No. If European resident owners at European timeshares could call five to six hours earlier on the first day than U.S. resident owners of European timeshares, the European residents would have an unfair advantage in making reservations, both at 13 months and at 12 months. That's why Marriott uses the 9:00 a.m. Eastern Time rule for that first day. It puts everyone on a level playing field in trying to make a reservation.

Dave M said:

That explains what at first seemed to be a violation of Marriott policy. The reason you were able to reserve your weeks is that you called on the second possible day for making your reservations. Had you called on May 11, the first possible day for reserving your dates, you would not have been able to make a reservation until 9:00 a.m., EDT.

When is the first day you can call? 13 months in advance of the first possible check-in date for the first week you want. Because Marbella has Friday check-in dates, the first day you could have called was 13 months ahead of Friday, June 11, 2010. That would have been May 11, 2009. Since you didn't call until May 12, you weren't subject to the 9:00 a.m. EDT limitation.

Would it be any different when calling a local office in Europe than when calling a local office in the U.S.? No. If European resident owners at European timeshares could call five to six hours earlier on the first day than U.S. resident owners of European timeshares, the European residents would have an unfair advantage in making reservations, both at 13 months and at 12 months. That's why Marriott uses the 9:00 a.m. Eastern Time rule for that first day. It puts everyone on a level playing field in trying to make a reservation.

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.
That explains ...thanks Dave ..
Garry

GregT said:

This is an interesting post -- there used to be a concern that Marriott might find a way to restrict the 13 month booking window only to weeks that were purchased directly from them, and restrict resale purchases to either the 12 month (or a shorter) period.

Have we learned anything through all of this that makes us think it would be difficult to put that change in place? If it's not in the deed, I would think they could change that?

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I can only speak for Shadow Ridge, but IT IS IN THE DEED. All owners (resale/direct) have equal reservation rights.

If bored, read the Declaration : http://www.veljovich.com/homeweb/index.php?page=tug

SueDonJ said:

Uh oh, this is a can of worms that may explode so badly that the bait store will need to be closed for a week for haz-mat cleanup!

My thought is (and I'm applying this to everything, not just reservation policies) that Marriott is free to try to make whatever changes to the programs that it wants to make, so long as there is language somewhere in the contract documents that protects its right to make such changes. Everywhere in the documents you can find "... as amended from time to time ..." bombs that would possibly protect Marriott if such changes were to be contested in a court setting.

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Absolutely impossible to change this right at Shadow Ridge or any resort with similar deed language:
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=732543&postcount=168

SueDonJ said:

(Because this is always added to these discussions - of course I don't think the specific unit type / season / resort that is purchased can be amended by Marriott. Ever.)
. . .

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Well if you think that the language "... as amended from time to time ..." allows them to change your right to reserve your week, then why not your season?

Of course, they can do neither, as these are deeded rights [again, at least at Shadow Ridge.]

davidvel said:

I can only speak for Shadow Ridge, but IT IS IN THE DEED. All owners (resale/direct) have equal reservation rights.

If bored, read the Declaration : http://www.veljovich.com/homeweb/index.php?page=tug

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We purchased ShadowRidge resale and do not have copies of any of the declarations found in your link. I've saved a copy of each for future reference. Thanks for posting.

aka Julie said:

We purchased ShadowRidge resale and do not have copies of any of the declarations found in your link. I've saved a copy of each for future reference. Thanks for posting.

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No problem. You are welcome.

Beverley said:

What makes you think the people that booked out NCV own their multiple weeks just to book out July 4th??

We own multiple weeks and "string" them together to get what we want. For instance, we stay on HHI every summer for at least 2 weeks and wrap it around a stay at Ocean Point in Florida. Ultimately we are away for 4 to 5 weeks. We "string" our weeks together so that we can go from one place to the next without any gaps. Consecutive week bookings are what the 13 month rule is all about. While I am sorry Joe missed it this year, this booking practice is a terrific perk! and clearly allows us to reserve our summer.

Beverley

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Do you think I'm again 13 month window advantage? I'm sorry if my posts implied that but I'm not. I do like it. I even gave the OP suggestions on how to secure the next week but I'm sure my suggestions will be ignored.

I just don't think everyone has as much vacation as you do. I really do think some people bought multiple weeks to take advantage of the 13 month window. Unfortunately, I think NCV seasons are wrong which is causing the problem.

davidvel said:

... Well if you think that the language "... as amended from time to time ..." allows them to change your right to reserve your week, then why not your season?

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Because the phrase isn't found in every provision in the ownership paperwork; its uses are specific and limited. In my paperwork for SurfWatch, for example, it's not included in the PROPERTY DESCRIPTION (or related ULTIMATE OCCUPANCY) sections. In the USE PERIODS section, however, it says this, "... the Use Period actually used in any given year will be as reserved through the reservation system as set forth in the Time Sharing Declaration, as amended from time to time."

davidvel said:

Of course, they can do neither, as these are deeded rights [again, at least at Shadow Ridge.]

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Right, no questions from me about Shadow Ridge. I agree.

You know, I haven't written anywhere that Marriott is free to do whatever it wants or even that I know exactly what they can and cannot do. But there are so many variations in deed and contract language for each of the MVCI properties that I don't think a one-size-fits-all blanket "they can" or "they can't" argument can be applied. (Although a lack of one-size-fits-all could be a deterrent to program changes, because the logistics of implementing those changes would be a nightmare.) And as I said, I don't expect or want them to make any changes. The program works fine for me, works exactly as advertised, as is.

Dave M said:

That explains what at first seemed to be a violation of Marriott policy. The reason you were able to reserve your weeks is that you called on the second possible day for making your reservations. Had you called on May 11, the first possible day for reserving your dates, you would not have been able to make a reservation until 9:00 a.m., EDT.

When is the first day you can call? 13 months in advance of the first possible check-in date for the first week you want. Because Marbella has Friday check-in dates, the first day you could have called was 13 months ahead of Friday, June 11, 2010. That would have been May 11, 2009. Since you didn't call until May 12, you weren't subject to the 9:00 a.m. EDT limitation.

Would it be any different when calling a local office in Europe than when calling a local office in the U.S.? No. If European resident owners at European timeshares could call five to six hours earlier on the first day than U.S. resident owners of European timeshares, the European residents would have an unfair advantage in making reservations, both at 13 months and at 12 months. That's why Marriott uses the 9:00 a.m. Eastern Time rule for that first day. It puts everyone on a level playing field in trying to make a reservation.

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I always hear, "Here he comes to save the day ...." when I see your name. Thanks for figuring this out.

ciscogizmo1 said:

Do you think I'm again 13 month window advantage? I'm sorry if my posts implied that but I'm not. I do like it. I even gave the OP suggestions on how to secure the next week but I'm sure my suggestions will be ignored.

I just don't think everyone has as much vacation as you do. I really do think some people bought multiple weeks to take advantage of the 13 month window. Unfortunately, I think NCV seasons are wrong which is causing the problem.

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No I did not think you were against the 13 month window.

The way I took (although I certainly could have misunderstood) what you were saying was that the preponderance of people bought extra weeks for the purpose of shutting out other 2 week owners. I do agree that the 13 month perk was at least one factor for many people when buying a second week. However, in order to string your weeks together to get to the head of the line so-to-speak, more than two weeks are needed unless the weeks are lock-off weeks.

I was just giving an example of one person/ couple (us) that did not buy with the 13 month window in mind. Our first purchase 10 years ago was a 2 week purchase. We bought 2 weeks to better work the point system allowing us to deposit one week for points and still use a week every year. Since then we bought more weeks to be able to go away for a month and yet still have time to deposit with II to go on other vacations, give to our kids to use, or try to trade back in to another one of our other home resorts.

Take care.

Beverley

By the way ... I definitely agree the problem arises in resorts that have an elongated platinum season that artificially describes the true demand. This clearly causes a "mad dash" type of booking window to get into the true platinum time frame.

We had gone for a tour at an off brand on HHI. We stopped listening when they described their platinum season as beginning in March and continuing through to November. Marriott's plat season on HHI is June July and August. Gold season is also a very popular time (April, May and Sept, Oct), however, it is no where near the grid lock of the June July August time frame. Marriott planned this right as far as demand goes which makes booking within your season much easier than at resorts that have the longer plat season.

Personally, as time has gone by, I think Marriott may have gotten a little greedy making the plat seasons longer so as to sell more higher priced plat weeks. IMHO.

Beverley

Beverley said:

By the way ... I definitely agree the problem arises in resorts that have an elongated platinum season that artificially describes the true demand. This clearly causes a "mad dash" type of booking window to get into the true platinum time frame.

We had gone for a tour at an off brand on HHI. We stopped listening when they described their platinum season as beginning in March and continuing through to November. Marriott's plat season on HHI is June July and August. Gold season is also a very popular time (April, May and Sept, Oct), however, it is no where near the grid lock of the June July August time frame. Marriott planned this right as far as demand goes which makes booking within your season much easier than at resorts that have the longer plat season.

Personally, as time has gone by, I think Marriott may have gotten a little greedy making the plat seasons longer so as to sell more higher priced plat weeks. IMHO.

Beverley

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I don't see HHI platinum owners (and even Gold ones) claiming they can't book their weeks, and HHI owners usually use their weeks instead of trade them.

The calender is old, with 4 seasons, and reflects demand a lot better.

But a platinum season in HHI starting in March all the way throught November is ridiculous.

ldanna said:

I don't see HHI platinum owners (and even Gold ones) claiming they can't book their weeks, and HHI owners usually use their weeks instead of trade them.

The calender is old, with 4 seasons, and reflects demand a lot better.

But a platinum season in HHI starting in March all the way throught November is ridiculous.

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Probably the worst calendar to date is Lakeshore Reserve. They have two seasons, platinum, and platinum premier. Premier goes from week 6 to 17, which is reasonable for the spring break travel season. However regular platinum takes up the rest of the year. So all owners for the 40 other weeks in platinum will be going after about ten prime summer, Christmas and New Year weeks. There will be some unhappy platinum owners at Lakeshore reserve in the next few years.

ldanna said:

I don't see HHI platinum owners (and even Gold ones) claiming they can't book their weeks, and HHI owners usually use their weeks instead of trade them.

The calender is old, with 4 seasons, and reflects demand a lot better.

But a platinum season in HHI starting in March all the way throught November is ridiculous.

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You are correct. Generally there are little or no problems booking the platinum weeks for the Marriott resorts. :whoopie: The only time I have heard of a problem is when an owner calls a few weeks late (after the 12 months) and wants a July week. Other than that the season reflects the demand.

The other timeshare group that has the March through April was absolutely ridiculous and interestingly enough when I asked whether people had difficulty booking summers with that window the question was skirted. When I then asked if they had any fixed weeks they said yes, when asked if they had any fixed weeks in the summer available they said "no". Hmmmm.

"Probably the worst calendar to date is Lakeshore Reserve. They have two seasons, platinum, and platinum premier. Premier goes from week 6 to 17, which is reasonable for the spring break travel season. However regular platinum takes up the rest of the year. So all owners for the 40 other weeks in platinum will be going after about ten prime summer, Christmas and New Year weeks. There will be some unhappy platinum owners at Lakeshore reserve in the next few years."

No kidding. I can think of only one good use for a platinum calendar like that and it is if you wanted to use the resort for trading almost all the time. While there are "lesser" power weeks within the platinum season, the trade of a platinum will usually trump that of another season. But, mostly I think the best use of the elongated platinum season is the money maker it is for Marriott.

Beverley