• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 31 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 31st anniversary: Happy 31st Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $23,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $23 Million dollars
  • Wish you could meet up with other TUG members? Well look no further as this annual event has been going on for years in Orlando! How to Attend the TUG January Get-Together!
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    Tens of thousands of subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Marriott Aruba Ocean Club Owners Being Ripped Off By Marriott - READ IF AN OWNER

m61376

Tug Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
7,269
Reaction score
320
Location
NY
Resorts Owned
Marriott Aruba Surf Club 2 & 3BRs
More figures- I was right - OC has 218 units, Surf has 450. I had thought it was closer to double the number of units.

Where the confusion is I think is that there are proportionally more keyed rooms at the SC because all the villas are lock-outs (2 and 3BR's) and the OC has 1BR and 2BR lock-outs). But the number of villas is about twice the number.
 

ecwinch

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,737
Reaction score
1,125
Location
San Antonio
Resorts Owned
Marriott Harbour Point (HP), Kauai Beach Villas, Riverside Suites, WorldMark Pts (WM), Wyndham Pts
"We definitely have the same thoughts as you do with the rising costs. 2009 maintenance fees were driven by several increases beyond anyone’s control, including in utility costs, water expenses and inflation in Aruba. The additional repair cost of hurricane Omar was also unanticipated. We have also been faced with a good bit of deferred maintenance from prior spending decisions. We are aware that Marriott’s Aruba Surf Club’s fees increased substantially year-over-year; maintenance fees at that property may still be lower due to the size of the resort and costs can be spread greater; also, the property is not fully sold out and units are therefore still subsidized by Marriott."

Eric, I'm not sure what your point is on my statement but maybe you can read the precise wording (above) that you think I misinterpreted and let me know how I did that. To me its pretty clear that units are subsidized by Marriott.

Drum roll please.... I agree with LoveAruba.

I am assuming that this is some e-mail or letter from the OC BoD. It is possible that the author could be misunderstanding what Marriott's subsidy entails.

Just because someone says it, does not make it a fact. Otherwise the OC would be shut down for being a safety hazard due to all the corrosion and building issues.
 

ecwinch

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,737
Reaction score
1,125
Location
San Antonio
Resorts Owned
Marriott Harbour Point (HP), Kauai Beach Villas, Riverside Suites, WorldMark Pts (WM), Wyndham Pts
People always think the developer is paying the subsidy to artifically lower the owners fees which is not the case. It in place to pay for unsold units which are the developers responsibility.

I agree. But sometimes it is exactly what people think, that the developer is subsidizing the common amenities to keep m/f low. That is the reason that most states require that developer subsidies be disclosed in the Public Offering Statement (that huge stack of paperwork you get when you buy from a developer).

For instance, I did an RCI exchange into the Tahati Village in Las Vegas. It away from the main part of the strip, so the resort offers a shuttle to the casinos. Leaves every 30 minutes - big huge vans.

Now when that resort is completely sold, I doubt that owners will continue to fund that indulgence. But the timeshare weasels sell that "feature" as if it will be there forever.
 

marksue

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
369
Reaction score
0
Location
NJ
Allan's Letter pt 1

A Lesson to all Time Share Owners

Dear Owner: I would like to respond to the two recent messages you received from Marriott Vacation Club International (MVCI), one from the three Officers of the Board of Directors of the Aruba Ocean Club (AOC) and the other from Dirk Schavemaker, Senior VP (MVCI).

Both messages comment on efforts made by hundreds of Owners, including myself, seeking a fair and reasonable solution to the issues that plague the AOC. Their attempt to instill fear and discredit the efforts of all of the responding Owners is inexcusable and their attempt to insinuate that my motive is to discredit Marriott is erroneous and without merit. As an Owner of 3 Marriott Vacation Club properties and a small investor in Marriott, I have always been an advocate of the professionalism of the Marriott organization and have been a dedicated volunteer serving what I think are the best interests of all the Owners.

I have joined the Concerned Owners Group and until we have access to all AOC owners, whose contact information MVCI and the Board control, we request that you share this information with all fellow Owners you know. Whether or not you wish to join the concerned Owners group, the information we provide should be of interest to you. I apologize if you have sold your villa but still are receiving this correspondence. (If that is the case, please reply saying REMOVE - If you have names of other interested owners, please forward to me. Thank you, Allan c20854@aol.com or 301-299-2118)

I do not feel a need to defend myself, but I will share you with one small fact. I live in Potomac, MD, the home of Mr. Marriott, his family and hundreds of Marriott employees. I have received the Potomac Citizen of the Year award twice, incl uding 2008, for my volunteer efforts on behalf of the community. Why would my community give me this award twice while Marriott's MVCI Management demean my efforts in representing Owner interests as President and seek to discredit my efforts on behalf of all AOC Owners?I always believed in the Marriott name and respected the high caliber of many of their employees, many who have been friends for years, but when I see major problems and possible misrepresentations, I feel that as an officer, Board member and Owner, it is my obligation to address them.

I accepted my role as a Board member and President of the AOC with the same enthusiasm as I have always brought to my community volunteer efforts. Unfortunately, I shoulder some of the blame for the situation we now all find ourselves in, because as a loyal Marriott customer/Owner, I accepted everything they said as fact. Now after finding out that I was misled regarding the lack of disclosures, the condition of the building and issues related to lost revenue, MVCI acting with the current Board made sure that my tenure as President and a Board member was short lived.

I would not waste my time making a plea to Mr. Marriott, Mr. Sorenson and the entire Marriott International Board of Directors at the recent annual meeting in Washington if I did not think that they intended to resolve this in a fair manner. Unfortunately, they have evaded this responsibility and left it up to the MVCI division. MVCI in turn has taken on the mission to filter all Owner communications, stop open Owner debate, and control the recent Board of Directors elections. All the Owners’ emails to Mr. Sorenson have been responded to by Dirk at MVCI with a form letter containing some of the same old and inaccurate MVCI statements .

Marriott Intern ational should realize that this is like putting salt on a wound. The MVCI staff now on hand at the Aruba Ocean Club need not take our questioning personally; the problems were not caused by them directly and are beyond their sphere of control. No one blames them. Most were not even around when the AOC was built, and they act in a courteous, responsive and professional manner. Yet it seems from Owner comments that some, even “our” GM has taken sides in these issues, and rather than working for all the owners, he and some of his staff are pitting one Owner against another. They are being paid by all the Owners and should not take sides, just do their job of running the resort on a daily basis as professionals and not get caught in defending previous actions of MVCI or the Board.

The Board Officers and MVCI are trying to intimidate owners with threats; but in spite of what they say litigation and negative press will hurt Marriott, worldwide, far more than it will hurt the owners, if they continue to walk away from their responsibility. Litigation or 3rd party intervention is not a preferred route; but we are prepared to go that way since Marriott continues to refuse to adequately address the problems. They can force us to take that route; or they can act responsibly.

I will continue to try to get Marriott International involved, but let's look at the history of the issues. My fall from MVCI'S graces began after I exposed the questionable MVCI practices at the expense of AOC Owners. (See list below.) While some Owners consider that they have abundant grounds to sue for misma nagement and observe that MVCI management has provided some very questionable oversight., I want to gather all the facts and try to resolve the issues fairly.

Even the Board threat to some Owners that Marriott might “leave” is unfounded. I am not seeking that solution and I feel it is far from likely. What kind of message would that give to othe r Vacation Clubs should they challenge Marriott? With the Surf Club on one side and the Marriott Hotel on the other, as well as Mr. Marriott signing a feasibility agreement with the government last month for the Ritz next to the Hotel - I do not see that they would pull their flag for any reason. But, even if they did, there are many other high quality brands (like Hyatt, Hilton, or Westin to name a few) who could jump at the opportunity to put their flag in Aruba on the Ocean Club.

If Marriott's name had not been on the Aruba Ocean Club building, I would safely say that a majority of us, including myself, would not be Owners today. It is with the belief that the Marriott name means something that I had asked Marriott International to convene an independent meeting in Washington with a group of concerned owners to resolve these issues. The recent hard ball tactics that MVCI staff have taken, most recently by controlling the AOC annual meeting and election, has only led to an increase in the number of concerned Owners.

We must get back on track and while MVCI and the current Board continue to instill fear that we the Owners will suffer (more than we are suffering now?) if we request third party intervention and representation, be aware that everything MVCI does-- it does with the backing supposedly of legal representation.

If I have learned one thing, that is that we should not just accept MVCI's statements as gospel. Every Owner document we have seen has been drafted, written and signed by Marriott, since no Owners existed at the time AOC was created. Since there were no arm's length transactions, just one Marriott company to another, we must ensure now that we are fully informed and protected. We pay every dime for upkeep of this building and for Management's salaries, yet have little control over how much and to whom.

As one Owner pointed out - the Board and I are also to blame. This is true and I accept some blame. She asked why, when the Board was turned over a few years ago from being a Developer's Board to an Owners-controlled Board, we did not do what every major company does when they buy a property, in other words hire an outside company to do due diligence and review everything that they are purc hasing. That is a great question and an excellent suggestion. Unfortunately, I do not know of any of the 50 other Marriott Vacations Clubs ever even considering this, but it has become clear that in the future all Time Share Boards should do it. As a Surf Club Owner also, I urge their Board as the owners take over to consider this immediately. Perhaps problems like those at the AOC can be avoided if appropriate disclosures are forthcoming.

President Frank Knox in his June letter to Owners stated that "After thoroughly reviewing all of these reports, your Board of Directors believes that our building is in good condition and that, combined with our total villa renovation this fall, we will have a first class facility we can be proud of". Again, we must not forget that we the Owners have been paying for (as our sales agreements state) a "first class resort" all along- as that is what we paid for in the first place, but it appears we never purchased one, but had to personally make additional and substantial payments to make it one.

Our management team was hired and we paid to insure that our facility was always maintained to that standard. It is obvious from their own consultant reports that it was not. How much repair and maintenance costs currently and during the past 9 years have we had to pay to meet the standards that were sold to us to begin with? Who is paying for all the repairs noted in MVCI's consultant report including the $750,000 estimate to re caulk the building? Who is paying for all the repairs that the consultant reports stated were caused from "historical roof leaks" or from unknown causes? We the Owners?

Having reviewed the reports posted this week on our Owners web site www.arubaoceanclub.com - I find them encouraging, but it is clear that most of the leaks are caused as noted from "historical water infiltration.” We the Owners spent over $70,000 for our own consultant, a highly respected mold and environmental expert Sanit-Air (also an Owner), who along with her two structural engineers worked very hard to review what blue prints were made available as well as te sting and making observations to ensure that our building met the highest standard. I find it very disturbing that the Board and MVCI have not shared their actual reports and photos and instead drafted a three-paragraph summary. While MVCI's experts may be qualified, it is MVCI that got us to where we are today: with a building that needed a new roof, new windows, new caulking, and according to Owners and many employees has leaked in some areas since it was built. One point noted by our consultants, yet not addressed, is that our new roof is not mechanically fastened per manufacturers requirements. We must insist that MVCI have Zurich Insurance and all their warranty providers acknowledge that they accept full responsibility in maintaining this warranty with this knowledge.
 

marksue

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
369
Reaction score
0
Location
NJ
Allans letter pt 2

Perhaps the most important issue is to correct the underlying causes of water intrusion. You will note the large disclaimer from MVCI's mold expert – placing the burden for the final outcome on our Management team if they do not maintain the building properly then we will have possible water intrusion and mold problems on a regular basis. Their track record is not good, and we the owners must ensure that the job is done correctly. Only with independent review and oversight can we break the pattern of failure. We cannot rely on MVCI expertise alone.

With all the funds that we as Owners have been paying for the general maintenance and repair of this Building over the last ten years, we should not have had to do all these repairs and we should not have to pay for all this. How much is this work going to cost and who is paying for the work recommended by these consultant's reports? There are still questions that remain to be asked of our consultants. When they reviewed the limited blueprints they were permitted to see, "Did the blueprints show things that were specified for construction of our building but that may n ot have been included in the building? If so, what effect might it have on the life of the building?” We must seek the entire reports, environmental and structural, including photographs taken by our consultant team led by Connie Morback and her engineers.. We paid for these reports, after all. yet, I understand the Board had Connie sign a confidentiality agreement similar to what MVCI uses so that she cannot disclose them.

At a minimum we should request that Connie and her structural engineers provide a statement to owners (unedited by the Board or MVCI) commenting on what MVCI and the Board have presented to us as it relates to the environmental and structural integrity of our Building.

Why the board refused to share Connie's reports and those of her structural engineer is a mystery, if we all have the same best interest of the owners in mind. If everything is fine, which would be best for all - then we can put this to rest. If not, then we have a right to know what additional information, repairs,upgrades etc. are necessary.

At the annual meeting I asked MVCI to give Owners a hold-harmless agreement to cover all the current work underway and make Marriott/MVCI responsible for all this work caused by historical leaks and any present and future damages that may be caused by any further failures. This request was defeated because of the lack of support by the Board and MVCI. I guess neither intends to stand behind the construction.

Also, at the Annual Meeting Marriott announced that they had purchased back 115 weeks from Owners. Is this a good thing? With Marriott's 40% commission many Owners, although happy to get out from future costs, still question the value received, but we all understand it was their decision. If the strategy of MVCI is to buy back units at distressed prices and resell them at a high market rate once the facility is back in shape (having been paid for by the past Owners), then unfortunately they may be successful because 100's more villas are for sale -- by individuals who love Aruba and the AOC, but must leave because of the escalating costs. I had asked the Board to allow owners to vote on the timing of all discretionary expenditures, to keep this year’s maintenance fee more manageable. They refused. Now, while we hope we will have a beautiful resort in 2 years after the completion of the repairs and the refurbishment, we undoubtedly will have lost many dedicated and devoted Owners. And Marriott, instead of being responsible as the Developer, will simply have another windfall and control more votes as owner.

We now have sought legal representation in Aruba since this was the only alternative that MVCI and this Board left us based on their conduct. Our legal counsel will be communicating with you directly to inform you of our next steps and give you an opportunity to respond.

We are seeking a method to contact all AOC Owners to make them aware of the situation and are seeking reasonable answers regarding the building. We must find out how much Owners have paid for repairs and maintenance and what disclosures about the AOC facility were Owners made aware of..

MVCI and the Board are now trying to pressure our Counsel to withdraw - is there no end to th is outrageous and unconscionable behavior. He has been informed that unless he withdraws from representing us, they will pursue legal action. What possible information could our Counsel know or find out from MVCI's actions at the AOC that the Board would not want every Owner to be aware of? Why would the current AOC Board spend Owner funds to fight other Owners over issues with the developer? Whom are they protecting? .

I can only again issue a plea to Marriott International and its Corporate Board of Directors to conduct an investigation into this situation. Stop the hard ball tactics of MVCI and, in the corporate conscience that Marriott has been built on, move forward in good faith now and address our concerns. Time is of the essence.

Unfortunately, the AOC Board has lost the confidence of the owners as demonstrated by the recent election which rejected the reelection bid of Frank Knox were it not for Marriott casting it's B and owner votes. I stand ready to work with our Owners and Marriott to resolve these problems.

I will continue to welcome your phone calls and emails. We owners must work together to defend ourselves. Thank you.

Sincerely,
Allan S. Cohen
 

marksue

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
369
Reaction score
0
Location
NJ
Allan's letter pt 3

P. S. One time share owners recent comment:. "The majority certainly know about the special assessment and care about that. They also likely have zero idea about the brouhaha here and even if they knew wouldn't react. The only area that really gets owners attention is when it hits their wallet. Most know little to nothing about the workings of the Board/Management and aren't going to lift a finger to figure it out. That's just the way it is in timeshare - a fact all too well known by developers and used to their maximum advantage in most cases."

Some 20 questionable actions by MVCI and disturbing questions that they have not satisfactorily addressed -- are listed below. For pursuing these issues, my tenure as Board President was terminated.

This is in summary of my fall from MVCI grace's and if anyone wants more details and backup, please contact me at C20854@aol.com or call me at 301-299-2118.

1. After Owners questions, my discovery that the Owners did not receive revenue from the rental space in the lobby for past years. Once this was disclosed, MVCI issued the Association a check for over $100,000 in lost revenue from the De Palm tours and Red Sail desks. My seeking interest during this period irritated MVCI, but only after many months of asking did they pay an additional amount to the Owners for lost interest "as a good will gesture".

2. My continued questioning as to why Owners did not receive any revenue for 9 years from the Hertz desk in our lobby. (Their contract provided two vehicles for use by the resort staff and no cash). National was paying over $5,000 per month at the Surf Club for a desk plus vehicles. After going out to bid, now the Owners receive two vehicles as well as over $7,000 per month for one desk for auto rental. I questioned why under the original contract with Hertz we did not receive any cash, I asked to see the Marriott Hotel rental contract and see what cash payments the Hotel was receiving from Hertz for the last nine years, for comparison. This request was refused. I questioned whether this contract was i n the best interest of the Owners?

3. My continued request for recovery of lost revenue from the 2-4 Marriott Sales desks in the Lobby for the last 9 years. We had received zero dollars and while Marriott's lawyers contend that they have a right to get this space free, our legal counsel see's this differently. Marriott now is paying $500 per month or $6000 per year for this space. I contend that 2-4 desks for Sales is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars on the Island. We may have lost over $1 million dollars in revenue. Only a third party can decide. While the Aruba Ocean Club units have been sold out for years, and they are selling the Surf Club, MVCI contends that they have sold hundreds of re-sales from these desks which helps Owners. To a far greater extent it profits MVCI, as it also provided millions of dollars to MVCI with their 40% commission. I ask, is $500 a month with no payment for the past nine years a fair rent for 4 desks when the least amount we currently receive is $2,000 per month per desk?

4. After Owner complaints and my continued inquiries about the condition of the Building and roof. After seeing for myself the flooding that occurred in the lobby, 2nd floor area, as well as the rear patio two years ago at 4 a.m., I was impressed by the staff's response and thanked them for all the hard work, but was shocked when they stated that "this happens every time we have a good rain". I had been told by many Owners that our Building leaked very badly, but was constantly reassured by MVCI management that this only "happens when a Felix-type event happens" referring to the 100+ year storm. Marriott Sales staff now disclose that they have used buckets for years by their desks to catch the water and our front desk staff have stated that they had leaks since the building opened. This was all reconfirmed only after the Board hired their own consultant to review water intrusion as well as structural issues with our Building. Our consultant is a well respected expert as well as an Owners. MVCI spent thousands of dollars and hired their own consultant to follow our Consultants around. The capacity of roof drains as well as underground storage tanks for run off were in question. While I was still an elected Board member (but removed from the Presidency), the new Officers refused to share any reports on the Building condition with me only with MVCI.

According to our GM it has cost Owners over $70,000 dollars to hire our own consultants, yet their initial and final reports have not been shared to this day. I witnessed thousands of dollars of unnecessary consultant time because MVCI did not give our consultants correct building blueprints or requested material in a timely manner. I was told that all requests had to go thru Marriott legal before dissemination.

Two examples: The wall behind the front desk, when cut into by our consultants, shows that the sheet rock and studs go into the ground and no water barrier was ever installed. No wonder it leaked and had mold issues since the building was opened (according to staff). When our consultants showed me the front atrium windows that we had replaced jus t a few years ago, anyone could have observed that they were poorly installed and not maintained. Upon our arrival MVCI had removed all the sheet rock on the interior walls on floors 2-6 because of the leaks. Mold remediation was underway. We had Stephen Rudner of Robert Darvas Associates, a structural engineer, as part of Connie Morbach's Santi-Air team who poured over blue prints of the building and raised questions. Additional items questioned were the roof drainage as well as the underground storage capacity and the lack of mechanical fastening of the new roof as required by the Mfg. Yet the new Board has refused to ask our structural consultant to follow up and are using Marriott's consultants’ reports only.

AOC Owners should insist that our own consultants present their final comments on MVCI's responses and the work being done. My continued questioning about the lack of adequate oversight did not make MVCI happy, yet we the Owners are paying for all these repairs.

5. After the concerns noted in #4, I requested our Board attorney to draft a list=2 0of issues we had with MVCI and stated that unless they are responded to immediately, then it will be turned over to our legal counsel for action. It was only after the passage of this Board resolution on January 14, 2008 that MVCI had the roof looked at and produced a report stating that it must be replaced immediately because it was holding water which weight it had not be designed for and could risk total failure. It was also at that time that MVCI disclosed that the roof had been on the building for at least 5 years prior to any sales and never disclosed to Owners. Since other issues were still pending from the January 14, resolution and the threat of legal action was the only thing that seemed to work with MVCI. I also had our attorney prepare a similar motion for possible consideration at our November 2008 meeting. This confidential memo was wrongfully obtained by MVCI to their displeasure.

6. My sharing the discovery of information with Owners gathered by one of our Owners from Aruba's Historical Records about our building that stated: "...Before construction was completed, they ran out of money, the Italian contractors had left without notice and the unfinished buildings were left empty for years, like modern time ruins. The government was even considering blowing up the skeletons when hotel magnate Marriott took care of them." - www.historiadiaruba.aw/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=39&lang=en I have been accused of sharing too much information with Owners. By contrast, this Board passed a secrecy resolution threatening any Board member providing information of being sued personally. I believe that Owners are entitled to information, we all own the AOC together.

7. After hearing from other Vacation Club Boards and our Owners that the Management fee structure is unreasonable - Several years ago our board voted to request a change in management fee structure from a 10% of all funds collected to a flat rate with an inflation factor. This is allowed in our B y-Laws, but only if Management agrees. They did not, but assured us that they would be presenting a new method within a year. Nothing to date. What this means is that Management receives 10 cents on every dollar we collect. If the government adds a $1.00 tax, we must pay Management an additional 10 cents per our contract. On our assessment of $14 million dollars for our ten year refurbishment Marriott is entitled to $1.4 under the current contract. Our reserves were so poorly funded that MVCI, the “experts,” should have known that we were severely under funded. Every year MVCI would recommend a reserve figure and the Board every year supported it 100%. As some Owners have pointed out, if the reserve funding had been increased from day one - MVCI would have had to pay millions of dollars on the unsold villas. Since we contracted with MVCI to do our 10 year refurbishment, and as I have been informed that they have waived management fees on refurbishments at other Vacation Clubs, they have waived it for us. It is appreciated.

8. My non support of the Maintenance bill increase - I did not vote for the huge increase in this year’s maintenance fee, because I did not believe that it had been reviewed adequately. When asked, MVCI said they could cut hundreds of dollars off the fee, but we might “lose some services.” The Board voted for the increases without further inquiring about alternatives.

9. Owner concerns and my questioning whether MVCI's $2 million dollar concessions is adequate? This positive gesture is appreciated, but what percentage of the whole amount does $2 million represent? Even this concession only occurred because of the outcry from hundreds of our Owners. Remember, this consists of the $1.4 million fee waiver as noted in item #7 above, the waiver of rental income from rooms taken out of inventory during the refurbishment and the 48% cost of the new roof because of the lack of disclosure that the roof sat open for 5 years prior to any MVCI sales to Owners.

10. Owner concerns and my continued request of legal clarification on the contradictions over who has final authority over the question of integrating the Ocean Club facilities with the Surf Club. MVCI contends that under their agreements they have final say.& nbsp; But on behalf of the AOC Owners, on a developers-controlled Board, in 2001, prior to the construction of the Surf Club. I know what the Board was told and I know what we agreed to and did not agree to. I co-signed an agreement and blueprints allowing all Ocean Club Owners free use for life of the Lazy River in exchange for MVCI on behalf of the Surf Club being allowed to open the wall between the two properties for egress, removal of a propane building, use of the Ocean Club lobby for Surf Club check in until the Surf Club lobby is opened etc. Ocean club's pool, beach, palapas, or tennis courts were never to be used by Surf Club owners. Why this agreement is “not enforceable” is still in question and although the AOC Board has stated not to integrate, we still share Tennis Courts and MVCI staff have continued to state their long term desire to have an integrated resort. The Owners voted and passed a motion at the 2002 Annual meeting that no integration can occur unles s voted on by the Owners. Will this be enforced?

11. After Owners request for timely information I created an Owner Web site - www.arubaoceanclub.com. After many years of requesting MVCI to create a web site for Owners’ news, to no avail, I created one and it was recognized as one of the most professional and best Owner sites that many at Marriott had seen. It was only my posting of correspondence to Owners without MVCI's final approval that led to a decision to move everything thru MVCI, which this Board has done. They have never stated that anything I have written to Owners was untrue, rather that “Owners do not have to know that much.” They even stopped sharing owners’ letters to the Board with all Board members.

12. My concern about past By Law amendment regarding the date for the Annual Meeting - MVCI's and the current Board's legal staff discovered that a 1980's Aruba Law that requires all timeshares to have an annual meeting within 6 months of the end of the fiscal year to provide its Owners will full financial information; the Board moved this year’s meeting forward to comply. Yet, In 2000 under a developers-controlled Board, a By-Law change was proposed by Marriott's legal department and passed by the Owners/Developer to be recorded with the Aruba government to move our Annual meeting to October to save the Owners expenses and allow for all the financial information to be available. When I pointed this out, MVCI's legal department - although acknowledged from the minutes that this did occur - said that they have no record of recording this By-Law change. Did the MVCI legal team not know that the 2000 By Law change was in violation of Aruba law and that we have been operating illegally for the past 9 years? This year we did have the annual meeting on May 15. Some owners feel that one of their motives was to remove me from office - 6 months early. I feel that this is a useful law which insures that Time Share Owners get full financial information with 6 months of the end of the year. But in any event, I feel that the Board is still in violation of Aruba law since they did not provide Owners with a complete accounting nor did they acknowledge or amend the past By-Law change.

13. After request from Owners about Annual audits - Per our By-Laws, the Board must receive annual independent financial Audits. When I asked why this was not done and whether this might be considered mismanagement, MVCI produced audits in 2007 for years 1999-2006 , stating that because of legal confusion on island tax issues the audits were never completed and shared with the Board. Before I left the Presidency, we set up a finance committee and I hope that they are given the ability to review our complete financial's and insure adequate audits. Who will follow up on this, if Owners have limited contact with the Board?
 

marksue

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
369
Reaction score
0
Location
NJ
Allan's letter pt 4

14. After Owner complaints about safety and security, I requested that MVCI's Lost Prevention staff prepare a report to the Board on security issues. After seeing that the same room was robbed 6 times in a matter of months and that the exterior doors were rarely locked at night we demanded action. MVCI finally sent a team to review the problems and correct them. The Board also converted our 311 key safes to digital ones. Of the 311 safes MVCI ordered 118 of them with the wrong door swing. After talking to the Safe manufacturer I was told that everyone knows when you order an item with a door you should specify right or left opening. &n bsp;MVCI was unhappy that I kept questioning their oversight on this issue.

15. After MVCI and the Board brought my attention to a Blog - I received a call the day after the annual meeting from Frank Knox stating the he had been contacted by MVCI about a blog site which MVCI monitor, and that I must stop the efforts of an Owner named Mark Silverstein or I would be sued by MVCI personally. Since I did not look at blogs and did not know Mark at that time, I looked him up to see what he was doing. I found Mark to a very passionate Owner, who was in Aruba attending the annual meeting and was very upset with the manner Owners were treated by MVCI and the Board at the meeting and their refusal to address Owners questions. He started a blog on Time Share User Group TUG2
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82564
called Marriott Aruba Ocean Club Owners Being Ripped Off By Marriott - READ IF AN OWNER. Currently this is the most viewed of all Marriott topic sites on Tug and since it start on October 1, 2008, has over 1250 postings and has been viewed over 60,200 times. Although you might not agree with all the comments or method they are expressed on this site, I believe that Owners want fair justice in resolving our issues.

16. After talking to many other Vacation Club Board members seeking information, I organized the MVCI Presidents Coalition - Since my expertise is coalition building, I created the Presidents Coalition seeking to learn "best practices" from the other 50 Marriott Vacation Club Board. The opportunity to share information with other Boards has been extremely helpful, but something that MVCI has not encouraged.

17. My request for an Owner contact at MVCI - Although this Board of Directors has not allow direct contact from Owners, I continue to hear from Owners who are in desperate financial straits. Everyone realizes that we are going thru some of the toughest economic conditions in our Country's history. We must be responsive. Last year when I asked Dirk for a contact person at MVCI, so Owners could share their views, he responded by providing MVCI Owner Relations Vice President David Babich name to be placed on the Owner web site. But after just a few weeks, I was instructed by MVCI to remove his name, because he was receiving too many inquiries. Although, he was generally passing along the Owners concerns to others - my question is - is this what MVCI see's as the role of Owner Relations? This is a major reason why Marriott should take a leadership role and have a true Owner Advocate.

18. My inquiry about Mr. Marriott's visit to AOC - During April, I was informed that Mr Marriott was planning to visit the Island. I offered to welcome him and arrange for Owners to meet him, I was sent an email from MVCI clearing stating that he would not be on the Island. because of the many issues at the AOC. This email was sent when MVCI sent Dirk and Troy to meet with Owners at the Hotel ballroom at the same time Mr, Marriott was visiting the AOC. I can understand that Mr. Marriott did not want to hear from our Owners and would respect his wishes, but to make him a unknown party to MVCI's masterful deceit by lying to Owners about his visit is truly a disgrace to the Marriott name.

19. My presentation at the Marriott International's Annual Stockholders meeting - My statement to the entire Board of Directors of Marriott International alerting them to the issues at the Ocean Club did not endear me to MVCI. Mr Marriott asked MVCI President Steve Weisz to come up on the podium and respond to a statement by another stockholder (whom I did not know) about Owner dissatisfaction and supporting my comments seeking an Owner Advocacy Office. My attempt to reach out to Mr. Weisz has been to no avail.

20. My response to the AOC annual meeting and Board elections - The Annual Meeting was not like anything I have ever seen before and was the first one that Marriott's MVCI division took complete control of. They hired at their expense a parliamentarian (one of only 35 in the nation) to run most of the meeting, they prepared two pages of rules, a proxy review staff, governance staff, security and did away with the secret ballot process for the proxies, etc. I would say that MVCI had more staff on hand then Owners in attendance. I ask you: Why would Marriott spend th ousands of dollars in sending staff and consultants to Aruba for an Owners Annual meeting? After the meeting I talked to MVCI governance department and asked why they conducted the meeting in this manner, hiring the parliamentarian etc. I was told that this was a first and it was because MVCI was privy to the proxy count, they knew who the Owners thru their proxies were supporting. This does not seem right that MVCI used what should have been confidential voting information to their benefit to keep Frank Knox on the Board. Does this seem ethical?

Just some of the concerns we must address. I hope that you stay involved. Thank you.

Allan S. Cohen
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
51,292
Reaction score
22,789
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
More figures- I was right - OC has 218 units, Surf has 450. I had thought it was closer to double the number of units.

Where the confusion is I think is that there are proportionally more keyed rooms at the SC because all the villas are lock-outs (2 and 3BR's) and the OC has 1BR and 2BR lock-outs). But the number of villas is about twice the number.

I was obtaining my data from the FAQ

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27886
 

ecwinch

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,737
Reaction score
1,125
Location
San Antonio
Resorts Owned
Marriott Harbour Point (HP), Kauai Beach Villas, Riverside Suites, WorldMark Pts (WM), Wyndham Pts
At least Allan is now only using Mark as a proxy to post here.

While I appreciated the long missive, I found little new ground was covered.

I think the letter clearly documents, that Allan was a passionate owner advocate while on the AOC BoD. He has held MVCI accountable, and expended the energy to investigate.

But by reading that letter, I stand by my initial premise that this is BoD politics. A duly elected BoD reviewed the entire scope and importance of the MVCI and AOC relationship, and decided that compromise was the best course of action given the uncertain outcome. One member passionately felt that action was wrong, and used all means in his power to subvert the actions of the BoD.

While I understand the disclaimers offered, having been involved in this thread since the beginning and with the facts outlined in my previous post, I cannot find credence in the statements made that there was no collaboration between Mark and Allan in this crusade. Mark's third post in this thread clearly indicates otherwise.

I wish Allan the best, and that no harm comes to him from his actions. I wish every timeshare that I own at, had someone as passionate on the BoD.

But I also recognize all it is all things in moderation. When his vote was counted, and was in the minority, he had an obligation to his fellow BoD members and the ownership as a whole, to support the decision. He did not have to like it, but in the absence of direct proof of undue influence by MVCI, he had an obligation to support. He choose to use other means to continue the battle, when there were many things he could have done.

While he accomplished much in his tenure, I think he is tarnishing that legacy with this crusade.
 
Last edited:

m61376

Tug Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
7,269
Reaction score
320
Location
NY
Resorts Owned
Marriott Aruba Surf Club 2 & 3BRs

I had e-mailed Chris awhile back and if you look at his last post the number of rooms at the SC has been corrected. It actually is posted wrong on the MVCI site, the old number of 600+ refers to keyed rooms prior to the new towers (counting 2 and 3BR lockouts as multiple instead of single units).

I did notice the 125 listed for the OC there, but I was told by a very reliable source that the real number is 218.
 

qlaval

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
545
Reaction score
58
Location
Montreal, Quebec
Resorts Owned
Marriott Aruba Ocean Club, Renaissance Aruba Resort & Casino
...I did notice the 125 listed for the OC there, but I was told by a very reliable source that the real number is 218.

The real unit numbers for the OC are as follow:
  • 125 1 bedroom
  • 93 2 bedrooms
For a total of 218 units.

But if you consider a 2 bedrooms as a two keyed rooms then you would have a total of 311 units.
 

lovearuba

TUG Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
760
Reaction score
2
Location
MA
At least Allan is now only using Mark as a proxy to post here.

While I appreciated the long missive, I found little new ground was covered.

I think the letter clearly documents, that Allan was a passionate owner advocate while on the AOC BoD. He has held MVCI accountable, and expended the energy to investigate.

While he accomplished much in his tenure, I think he is tarnishing that legacy with this crusade.

As we have also stated before, we are pleased with Allan's actions, he represented the owners not Marriott. I dont think he is tarnishing anything, anyone who has seen their maintenance fee jump 570 in one year and get a second bill for 630 in the same year will be hoping there are more folks on the board questioning the expenses. No where in any of these communications is there an explanation from Marriott on some of the issues questioned. Those issues will not be responded to because they will further damage Marriott's reputation. You should not infer that Allan and Mark have some previous collusion going on, I have been involved as early as Mark was involved and I can tell you first hand Allan was not out there asking for people to go against Marriott, he was a board member asking for disclosure. Those actions are why he is no longer representing our best interests. There's a high price to be paid for sticking up for yourself and a higher one for sticking up for others because its the right thing to do.
 

SueDonJ

Moderator
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
16,712
Reaction score
5,977
Location
Massachusetts and Hilton Head Island
Resorts Owned
Marriott Barony Beach and SurfWatch
... You should not infer that Allan and Mark have some previous collusion going on, I have been involved as early as Mark was involved and I can tell you first hand Allan was not out there asking for people to go against Marriott, he was a board member asking for disclosure. ...

I don't know how it can simply be ignored that in his first post to this thread, Marksue wrote, "I have been in touch with the board and have gotten the details of what is taking place. A board member said to me if you find a lawyer who would like to take on a class action suit there would be many people who would be willing to be part of the suit." Then in his third post he wrote, "I actually spoke with Alan and he is the one that suggested getting people togehter and trying to find an attorney to start a class action."

There's evidence, straight from Mark's fingers, of Allan's collusion with Mark while he was still on the BOD. What more do you need?
 
Last edited:

qlaval

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
545
Reaction score
58
Location
Montreal, Quebec
Resorts Owned
Marriott Aruba Ocean Club, Renaissance Aruba Resort & Casino
There is evidence of talks between an owner with his HOA President nothing more.
As a matter of fact there was hundred of owners if not more that were talking with their BOD President about the OC situation.
It is only your interpretation that those were about a cooperation for an illegal or deceitful purpose.
Unless you can prove that with an audio tape you are again only speculating....
 
Last edited:

SueDonJ

Moderator
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
16,712
Reaction score
5,977
Location
Massachusetts and Hilton Head Island
Resorts Owned
Marriott Barony Beach and SurfWatch
There is evidence of talks between an owner with his BOD President nothing more.
As a matter of fact there was hundred of owners if not more that were talking with their BOD President about the OC situation.
It is only your interpretation that those were about a cooperation for an illegal or deceitful purpose.
Unless you can prove that with an audio tape you are again only speculating....

You know, you're right. In a legal setting such as one that Marriott/MVCI may initiate against Allan for "conduct unbecoming a BOD member" (or whatever they'd use), things written here are probably inadmissible.

But none of us here are stupid. Mark clearly wrote that he and Allan discussed a possible class action suit by the owners against the BOD/Marriott/MVCI, and he clearly wrote that Allan suggested that he try to get a group effort going.

You can choose to ignore that in favor of Allan's latest missive in which he tries to say that he was not involved in any such thing, but I'll never believe it. And the fact that he later retracted the words, and had Mark post that Allan wasn't involved after he was issued a warning, makes me believe that everything the man says is suspect. He's lost all credibility as far as I'm concerned.
 

Eric

newbie
Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Messages
348
Reaction score
0
As president, wouldn't his #1 responsibility and loyalty have to be with the resort itself ? Working behind the scenes to insight a riot along with a lawsuit might make him a prime target for legal action against himself never mind taking mark's advice doesn't seem like a recipe for success either considering all his blunders.


You know, you're right. In a legal setting such as one that Marriott/MVCI may initiate against Allan for "conduct unbecoming a BOD member" (or whatever they'd use), things written here are probably inadmissible.

But none of us here are stupid. Mark clearly wrote that he and Allan discussed a possible class action suit by the owners against the BOD/Marriott/MVCI, and he clearly wrote that Allan suggested that he try to get a group effort going.

You can choose to ignore that in favor of Allan's latest missive in which he tries to say that he was not involved in any such thing, but I'll never believe it. And the fact that he later retracted the words, and had Mark post that Allan wasn't involved after he was issued a warning, makes me believe that everything the man says is suspect. He's lost all credibility as far as I'm concerned.
 

Dean

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
10,631
Reaction score
4,162
You know, you're right. In a legal setting such as one that Marriott/MVCI may initiate against Allan for "conduct unbecoming a BOD member" (or whatever they'd use), things written here are probably inadmissible.

But none of us here are stupid. Mark clearly wrote that he and Allan discussed a possible class action suit by the owners against the BOD/Marriott/MVCI, and he clearly wrote that Allan suggested that he try to get a group effort going.

You can choose to ignore that in favor of Allan's latest missive in which he tries to say that he was not involved in any such thing, but I'll never believe it. And the fact that he later retracted the words, and had Mark post that Allan wasn't involved after he was issued a warning, makes me believe that everything the man says is suspect. He's lost all credibility as far as I'm concerned.
I wondered at the time of the "retraction" whether there had already been threats of actions against a BOD member that triggered that retraction.
 

ecwinch

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,737
Reaction score
1,125
Location
San Antonio
Resorts Owned
Marriott Harbour Point (HP), Kauai Beach Villas, Riverside Suites, WorldMark Pts (WM), Wyndham Pts
I think his passion for protecting owners colored his judgement. And some wounded pride.

I want to blame him, but given his original motivations, I struggle with that.

I hope this whole issue melts away, and Allan is not harmed.
 

marksue

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
369
Reaction score
0
Location
NJ
I actually spoke with Alan and he is the one that suggested getting people togehter and trying to find an attorney to start a class action. I spent a great deal of time talking with him as well as calls into Marriott. The roof and infrastructure is a major issue as the cost is in the multiple of millions to repair and it should all be covered by Marriott as the roof did not last as long as we were told it would. I do not believe many people understand what this is going to cost them.

QUOTE]

At this point in time Allan was already forced out as President as he was trying to hold Marriott accountable. He suggested to me that I should try and get people together and fight this legally if necessary. He knew Marriott was hiding something and knew as a member of the BOD he could not do anything but other owners could. Marriott and the rest of the board weren’t listening to him so owners had to take charge. Nothing wrong with an insider sharing what he knew that impacted the owners and making suggestions on how to approach the issues.
 

Eric

newbie
Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Messages
348
Reaction score
0
I feel better now that you updated us with 100% accurate information. ( as you see it)


I actually spoke with Alan and he is the one that suggested getting people togehter and trying to find an attorney to start a class action. I spent a great deal of time talking with him as well as calls into Marriott. The roof and infrastructure is a major issue as the cost is in the multiple of millions to repair and it should all be covered by Marriott as the roof did not last as long as we were told it would. I do not believe many people understand what this is going to cost them.

QUOTE]

At this point in time Allan was already forced out as President as he was trying to hold Marriott accountable. He suggested to me that I should try and get people together and fight this legally if necessary. He knew Marriott was hiding something and knew as a member of the BOD he could not do anything but other owners could. Marriott and the rest of the board weren’t listening to him so owners had to take charge. Nothing wrong with an insider sharing what he knew that impacted the owners and making suggestions on how to approach the issues.
 

SueDonJ

Moderator
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
16,712
Reaction score
5,977
Location
Massachusetts and Hilton Head Island
Resorts Owned
Marriott Barony Beach and SurfWatch
I actually spoke with Alan and he is the one that suggested getting people togehter and trying to find an attorney to start a class action. I spent a great deal of time talking with him as well as calls into Marriott. The roof and infrastructure is a major issue as the cost is in the multiple of millions to repair and it should all be covered by Marriott as the roof did not last as long as we were told it would. I do not believe many people understand what this is going to cost them.

QUOTE]

At this point in time Allan was already forced out as President as he was trying to hold Marriott accountable. He suggested to me that I should try and get people together and fight this legally if necessary. He knew Marriott was hiding something and knew as a member of the BOD he could not do anything but other owners could. Marriott and the rest of the board weren’t listening to him so owners had to take charge. Nothing wrong with an insider sharing what he knew that impacted the owners and making suggestions on how to approach the issues.

On October 1st you posted those first two statements about a conversation you had with Allan, who was a member of the BOD at the time, in which he suggested that you get people together and try to find an attorney for a class action suit.

On November 1st you posted, "Just so you are aware Allan has nothing to do with the the proposition for a class action suit, he never suggested it and as a board memeber would not be one to initiate the suit." Presumably that post was a direct result of the warning Allan had received that he would be sued personally by MVCI if he did not stop your efforts.

Now here you are writing again that Allan, "suggested to me that I should try and get people together and fight this legally if necessary."

It doesn't matter if Allan was President of the BOD or not at the time he talked to you or didn't talk to you or suggested a class action suit or didn't, or whatever. (That's exactly how confusing this is.) As others have said, his actions while a member of the BOD, as you have related them, were inappropriate.

The contradictions are not helping your case one bit, and in fact they may actually be causing harm. Even if what's written here is not admissible, it is probably enough for Marriott to initiate an action against Allan and issue a subpoena to you. It's still mind-boggling to me that you think the risk is worth it.
 

Eric

newbie
Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Messages
348
Reaction score
0
Maybe at least one lawsuit will be sucessful :)

On October 1st you posted those first two statements about a conversation you had with Allan, who was a member of the BOD at the time, in which he suggested that you get people together and try to find an attorney for a class action suit.

On November 1st you posted, "Just so you are aware Allan has nothing to do with the the proposition for a class action suit, he never suggested it and as a board memeber would not be one to initiate the suit." Presumably that post was a direct result of the warning Allan had received that he would be sued personally by MVCI if he did not stop your efforts.

Now here you are writing again that Allan, "suggested to me that I should try and get people together and fight this legally if necessary."

It doesn't matter if Allan was President of the BOD or not at the time he talked to you or didn't talk to you or suggested a class action suit or didn't, or whatever. (That's exactly how confusing this is.) As others have said, his actions while a member of the BOD, as you have related them, were inappropriate.

The contradictions are not helping your case one bit, and in fact they may actually be causing harm. Even if what's written here is not admissible, it is probably enough for Marriott to initiate an action against Allan and issue a subpoena to you. It's still mind-boggling to me that you think the risk is worth it.
 

modoaruba

newbie
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
344
Reaction score
1
Location
new york
Wow.
Been away for a few days and came back to two pages of this thread.

Like I said before, I feel that Alan has done a wonderful job. Any elected official that would sidestep away from the expected to do the RIGHT thing that comes from their heart to protect those they represent is exemplatory.
Just think.
If every politician did the right thing and acted in the best interest for those that elected them we would obviously be better off.
I think however we would see more assassinations.
Lots of baiting here.
Alan only did what he thought was right in the best interest of the owners.
I guess NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED.
 

SueDonJ

Moderator
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
16,712
Reaction score
5,977
Location
Massachusetts and Hilton Head Island
Resorts Owned
Marriott Barony Beach and SurfWatch
Wow.
Been away for a few days and came back to two pages of this thread.

Like I said before, I feel that Alan has done a wonderful job. Any elected official that would sidestep away from the expected to do the RIGHT thing that comes from their heart to protect those they represent is exemplatory.
Just think.
If every politician did the right thing and acted in the best interest for those that elected them we would obviously be better off.
I think however we would see more assassinations.
Lots of baiting here.
Alan only did what he thought was right in the best interest of the owners.
I guess NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED.

I agree that Allan's thought process throughout his tenure on the BOD and continuing since then by way of this thread, has probably been that he is helping the owners at Aruba Ocean Club. But that's the extent of my agreement with his thoughts or his actions.

As a member/President of the BOD, he had a duty to serve the board's interests as well as those of the owners. At the moment that he realized that the two were in conflict, that his own interests would be better served by taking actions against the BOD/MVCI/Marriott, he should have resigned. I suspect he didn't because he wanted the best of both worlds - he wanted to be able to use other owners to do his bidding while at the same time continuing to enjoy the privilege of receiving confidential information given to the BOD. That's why he doesn't have my respect - because he used his trusted position to further his own interests in direct contradiction to the terms of that position. That's not behavior that deserves accolades.
 

AwayWeGo

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
15,823
Reaction score
1,767
Location
McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.
Resorts Owned
Grandview At Las Vegas

[triennial - points]
Represent The Owners' Interests Only, Please.

As a member/President of the BOD, he had a duty to serve the board's interests as well as those of the owners.
Shux, I would have expected the duty of all HOA-BOD members, including the president, to be serving the interests of the owners, period.

The HOA-BOD should not have 1 set of interests & the owners another, different set.

The timeshare company, sure. But not the HOA-BOD, from president right on down the line to at-large member.

Any timeshare HOA-BOD member not representing the owners' interests right on down the line should be voted off the board pronto.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 
Top